Date   

Re: Plywood Comparison/Dilemma

Marty
 

Just get your checkbook warmed up and buy the 1088; you'll save money and refinishing labor in the long run...and value of the boat will be enhanced when you sell. The biggest false economy is saving a few bucks on plywood.


Re: [MessaboutW] Mud Hole lol

Case Turner
 

It takes a Dirtsailor to make a successful pot luck! Unfortunately I cannot make this event.

Dirt

Sent from not here

On May 18, 2016, at 5:56 PM, 'John Kohnen' jkohnen@boat-links.com [MessaboutW] <MessaboutW@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Well, I guess nobody's interested in a potluck... There are a couple of
good restaurants in Veneta and some of us usually go for dinner at one or
the other one or both nights. Even if there's no potluck dinner, desserts
to share around the campfire are nice.

Speaking of the campfire... Who's got a campsite at Richardson?

http://www.coots.org/mb/FernRidge/

Looks like it'll probably be a little damp, but warm enough.

On Mon, 16 May 2016 14:39:38 -0700, Cheryl L wrote:

Hello there,
David and I will be there with our trailer, 4 kayaks (if anyone wants to
borrow one) and two dogs. Are there any pot lucks or anything I need
to know about so I can bring supplies?

--
John (jkohnen@boat-links.com)
Don't tell fish stories where the people know you; but
particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish. (Mark
Twain)


------------------------------------

------------------------------------

No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite. New members have their messages moderated until after their first message is posted. Information about the Coots and their events can be found at http://www.coots.org/
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



Re: [MessaboutW] Mud Hole lol

 

Well, I guess nobody's interested in a potluck... There are a couple of good restaurants in Veneta and some of us usually go for dinner at one or the other one or both nights. Even if there's no potluck dinner, desserts to share around the campfire are nice.

Speaking of the campfire... Who's got a campsite at Richardson?

http://www.coots.org/mb/FernRidge/

Looks like it'll probably be a little damp, but warm enough.

On Mon, 16 May 2016 14:39:38 -0700, Cheryl L wrote:

Hello there,
David and I will be there with our trailer, 4 kayaks (if anyone wants to borrow one) and two dogs. Are there any pot lucks or anything I need to know about so I can bring supplies?
--
John (jkohnen@boat-links.com)
Don't tell fish stories where the people know you; but
particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish. (Mark
Twain)


Re: [MessaboutW] Plywood Comparison/Dilemma

 

If you can afford the Good Stuff, use it. You won't regret it. Every time I build a boat out of el cheapo plywood I say, "never again!" <g> Good marine plywood is a lot nicer to work with, less work to finish, and may even be cheaper than less expensive plywood if you can use less glass and epoxy. It seems pretty silly to me to buy el cheapo plywood and then cover it with lots of epoxy and glass to make it "good." <g>

Fir marine plywood is pretty sorry stuff nowadays. <sigh> They've let the standards get pretty loose. Okoume is good stuff if you want a light boat, but it's not very rot resistant for a boat left out in the weather. Meranti is a more durable, a bit cheaper, and a bit heavier. Crosscut has some pretty nice meranti BS 1088 and BS 6566. I hauled a load of the 1088 over to the Boathouse some months ago, and I thought it looked pretty good. Tree Products in Springtown is carrying marine plywood now and it's worth giving them a call.

http://www.treeproductshardwood.com/

Good MDO is a lot better than marine fir plywood, and the overlay means it's ready to paint without any sheathing. You don't need to sand off the overlay before gluing or taping the chines. The overlay is stuck on at least as well as the plies are stuck together, and epoxy sticks to it good. All MDO isn't created equal. Use a good grade from a reputable manufacturer. OLY Panel's Signal and Crezon are good MDOs, but I don't know how available they are right now because the mill was sold and is being moved to Springfield...

On Tue, 17 May 2016 14:25:34 -0700, Mark wrote:

Hello! I'm new to this group and am hoping to hear some opinions. I live in Salem, OR and am starting a Michalak AF4 build. I have various choices of plywood and have suffered analysis paralysis. The plans call for 4 sheets of 1/2" and 5 sheets of 1/4". Here are the options I have considered (but I'm open to others):
1/4" & 1/2" Lowes Fir ACX - 277 lbs, $200
3/8" & 5/8" Lowes Fir ACX - 335 lbs, $210
3/8" & 5/8" Parr Pine ACX - 365 lbs, $387
1/4" & 1/2" Parr Pine ACX - 280 lbs, $387
1/2" & 1/2" MDO - 387 lbs, $460
1/2" & 3/4" MDO - 466 lbs, $531
6mm & 12mm Crosscut BS 1088 - 350 lbs, $672

I included heavier weights with the thinking that a heavier boat may be more durable and stable as long as the weight is kept low. Also, I'm using an 18 outboard to power this. I have budgeted for the most expensive options, but wouldn't mind saving money where possible. The finish will be painted without any fiberglass. What are some opinions? Thanks, Mark
--
John (jkohnen@boat-links.com)
It is better to have loafed and lost than never to have loafed
at all. (James Thurber)


Boat Festival Registration

Marty
 

This year, because we'll be celebrating the 40th anniversary of the first Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival--an event originally inspired by owners of smaller boats--we've negotiated SPECIAL PRICING for small boats registering  for the WBF.


Here's the deal: If you belong to the Northwest Maritime Center--that is, if you have a membership in the NWMC--your small boat up to 20 feet in overall length can be registered for the Wooden Boat Festival for only $40. That is, $40 for the 40th. (If you aren't a member of the NWMC, you should be, since your support helps keep this amazing facility going.)


We're making a special effort to flood the WBF grounds with smaller boats this year, so we really hope you'll bring your boat and display it either on a trailer or in the water.


For details on boat registration for the September 9-11 Wooden Boat Festival, go here:


Boat FAQs | Northwest Maritime Center





Re: [MessaboutW] Plywood Comparison/Dilemma [1 Attachment]

Bob Brown <wingsofthedawn1@...>
 

Rich,

Hate to change the subject, but is that a solar charging on your boat and how do you like it. 

I am thinking about something for my Montgomery.

Bob



From: "Richard Green chaos5@... [MessaboutW]"
To: MessaboutW@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2016 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [MessaboutW] Plywood Comparison/Dilemma [1 Attachment]

 
[Attachment(s) from Richard Green included below]
Well, well….many details/options available each with its caveats.  A lot depends on how long you want the boat to last versus how much extra work you want to do.  I’d use sheet thicknesses as specified by the designer.  You MAY use thicker ply for the bottom only as it would be a bit on the ballasty side but not in the sides necessarily as they will all be above the waterline, thus counter ballasty.  Unless you want the boat to be substantially heavier than designed which has its problems, too.  I’m not familiar with the Parr pine ply but pine of the cheap sort doesn’t have any rot resistance, fir ply will have better rot resistance though in the wrong conditions it’ll rot too.  

IF you use AC ply you will find voids in the cores that weaken the ply so in terms of longevity it ain’t so swell as marine ply with fewer voids.  If I’m using an 18 hp motor it suggests speeds which suggest waves and bashing and such.  Voids in ply cores which are typically unseen would not be what I’d like to subject my boat to built like that.   Especially if you paint but don’t glass.  The bottom at least should be glassed around the chines and up the sides a few inches.  

I’ve used MDO ply a fair bit in my last boat in some prior boats mostly for bulkheads though my current cabin sides are MDO both sides.  I like MDO a lot for certain uses.  For glassing I sand off the sides a few inches to glass to.  I have a test piece of unpainted, unsealed edges MDO both sides which has been in the weather….not on a boat….but rain and sun and such for over ten years, still solid.  MDO has far fewer void issues than AC ply.  

I’d lean more toward AB ply for your boat if you went the fir route.  If I was building a PDR I could see AC but not a boat the size and nature of an AF4.  The cost of the hull itself is a smaller part of the cost of a boat, I’d use decent woods to make it last, ease some construction issues, and be more solid.  Mebbe the fancy Crosscut ply for the bottom at least.  AC might do the sides though I’d prefer a better two faces of the ply than AC offers for your boat.

At the least I’d ‘glass the bottom with a suitable weight fabric, preferably with epoxy following recommendations for use and application.

Just my thoughts.  

My boat launched near three years ago in the photo, marine grade fir ply, ‘epoxy/dynel outside all around, MDO cabin sides, no ‘glass inside but epoxy sealed with two coats WEST 105/207 clear.  

P.S., I love the Kiwigrip deck nonskid and recommend it highly.

Rich






On May 17, 2016, at 2:25 PM, mstrader77@... [MessaboutW] <MessaboutW@...> wrote:


Hello! I'm new to this group and am hoping to hear some opinions. I live in Salem, OR and am starting a Michalak AF4 build. I have various choices of plywood and have suffered analysis paralysis. The plans call for 4 sheets of 1/2" and 5 sheets of 1/4". Here are the options I have considered (but I'm open to others):

1/4" & 1/2" Lowes Fir ACX - 277 lbs, $200
3/8" & 5/8" Lowes Fir ACX - 335 lbs, $210
3/8" & 5/8" Parr Pine ACX - 365 lbs, $387
1/4" & 1/2" Parr Pine ACX - 280 lbs, $387
1/2" & 1/2" MDO - 387 lbs, $460
1/2" & 3/4" MDO - 466 lbs, $531
6mm & 12mm Crosscut BS 1088 - 350 lbs, $672

I included heavier weights with the thinking that a heavier boat may be more durable and stable as long as the weight is kept low.  Also, I'm using an 18 outboard to power this. I have budgeted for the most expensive options, but wouldn't mind saving money where possible. The finish will be painted without any fiberglass. What are some opinions? Thanks, Mark






Re: [MessaboutW] Plywood Comparison/Dilemma

Richard Green
 

Well, well….many details/options available each with its caveats.  A lot depends on how long you want the boat to last versus how much extra work you want to do.  I’d use sheet thicknesses as specified by the designer.  You MAY use thicker ply for the bottom only as it would be a bit on the ballasty side but not in the sides necessarily as they will all be above the waterline, thus counter ballasty.  Unless you want the boat to be substantially heavier than designed which has its problems, too.  I’m not familiar with the Parr pine ply but pine of the cheap sort doesn’t have any rot resistance, fir ply will have better rot resistance though in the wrong conditions it’ll rot too.  

IF you use AC ply you will find voids in the cores that weaken the ply so in terms of longevity it ain’t so swell as marine ply with fewer voids.  If I’m using an 18 hp motor it suggests speeds which suggest waves and bashing and such.  Voids in ply cores which are typically unseen would not be what I’d like to subject my boat to built like that.   Especially if you paint but don’t glass.  The bottom at least should be glassed around the chines and up the sides a few inches.  

I’ve used MDO ply a fair bit in my last boat in some prior boats mostly for bulkheads though my current cabin sides are MDO both sides.  I like MDO a lot for certain uses.  For glassing I sand off the sides a few inches to glass to.  I have a test piece of unpainted, unsealed edges MDO both sides which has been in the weather….not on a boat….but rain and sun and such for over ten years, still solid.  MDO has far fewer void issues than AC ply.  

I’d lean more toward AB ply for your boat if you went the fir route.  If I was building a PDR I could see AC but not a boat the size and nature of an AF4.  The cost of the hull itself is a smaller part of the cost of a boat, I’d use decent woods to make it last, ease some construction issues, and be more solid.  Mebbe the fancy Crosscut ply for the bottom at least.  AC might do the sides though I’d prefer a better two faces of the ply than AC offers for your boat.

At the least I’d ‘glass the bottom with a suitable weight fabric, preferably with epoxy following recommendations for use and application.

Just my thoughts.  

My boat launched near three years ago in the photo, marine grade fir ply, ‘epoxy/dynel outside all around, MDO cabin sides, no ‘glass inside but epoxy sealed with two coats WEST 105/207 clear.  

P.S., I love the Kiwigrip deck nonskid and recommend it highly.

Rich






On May 17, 2016, at 2:25 PM, mstrader77@... [MessaboutW] <MessaboutW@...> wrote:


Hello! I'm new to this group and am hoping to hear some opinions. I live in Salem, OR and am starting a Michalak AF4 build. I have various choices of plywood and have suffered analysis paralysis. The plans call for 4 sheets of 1/2" and 5 sheets of 1/4". Here are the options I have considered (but I'm open to others):


1/4" & 1/2" Lowes Fir ACX - 277 lbs, $200

3/8" & 5/8" Lowes Fir ACX - 335 lbs, $210

3/8" & 5/8" Parr Pine ACX - 365 lbs, $387

1/4" & 1/2" Parr Pine ACX - 280 lbs, $387

1/2" & 1/2" MDO - 387 lbs, $460

1/2" & 3/4" MDO - 466 lbs, $531

6mm & 12mm Crosscut BS 1088 - 350 lbs, $672


I included heavier weights with the thinking that a heavier boat may be more durable and stable as long as the weight is kept low.  Also, I'm using an 18 outboard to power this. I have budgeted for the most expensive options, but wouldn't mind saving money where possible. The finish will be painted without any fiberglass. What are some opinions? Thanks, Mark





Re: Plywood Comparison/Dilemma

David Graybeal
 

Info item - the MDO is often available in 5/16" (very close to the 1/4" you seek) - as a special order item. Check with your supplier.

Query - do you have a Mr. Plywood in Salem? They carry an excellent BS6566 grade meranti Marine Plywood for a reasonable rate.

General comment - I'd skip the fir or pine plywood unless you were already planning to sheathe the surfaces with cloth/epoxy. It will check, and become both unsightly and grubby if simply painted.

Good luck!


Re: [MessaboutW] Plywood Comparison/Dilemma

Andrew Linn
 

I'm here in Salem, too, and have built wqith most of those. MDO is my least preferred - very heavy and you can't sand it at the edges (paper facings - your mileage may vary.) I'd strongly recommend using Marine Ply - it doesn't have to be occume or meranti, marine fir is much cheaper and is in use all over. Give CrossCut a call in Eugene (they have a portland office, too) 541-349-0538`Talk to Mike Langer and tell hm the Toledo Community Boathouse sent you. You won't get a break on deals, but I might, in the future :)

Fir WILL check, but that's fine, just keep painting.

I've built a lot with construction ply - it works, but you won't be happy in 3 or 4 years.

On 5/17/2016 2:25 PM, mstrader77@yahoo.com [MessaboutW] wrote:

Hello! I'm new to this group and am hoping to hear some opinions. I live in Salem, OR and am starting a Michalak AF4 build. I have various choices of plywood and have suffered analysis paralysis. The plans call for 4 sheets of 1/2" and 5 sheets of 1/4". Here are the options I have considered (but I'm open to others):


1/4" & 1/2" Lowes Fir ACX - 277 lbs, $200

3/8" & 5/8" Lowes Fir ACX - 335 lbs, $210

3/8" & 5/8" Parr Pine ACX - 365 lbs, $387

1/4" & 1/2" Parr Pine ACX - 280 lbs, $387

1/2" & 1/2" MDO - 387 lbs, $460

1/2" & 3/4" MDO - 466 lbs, $531

6mm & 12mm Crosscut BS 1088 - 350 lbs, $672


I included heavier weights with the thinking that a heavier boat may be more durable and stable as long as the weight is kept low. Also, I'm using an 18 outboard to power this. I have budgeted for the most expensive options, but wouldn't mind saving money where possible. The finish will be painted without any fiberglass. What are some opinions? Thanks, Mark


Plywood Comparison/Dilemma

mstrader77@...
 

Hello! I'm new to this group and am hoping to hear some opinions. I live in Salem, OR and am starting a Michalak AF4 build. I have various choices of plywood and have suffered analysis paralysis. The plans call for 4 sheets of 1/2" and 5 sheets of 1/4". Here are the options I have considered (but I'm open to others):


1/4" & 1/2" Lowes Fir ACX - 277 lbs, $200

3/8" & 5/8" Lowes Fir ACX - 335 lbs, $210

3/8" & 5/8" Parr Pine ACX - 365 lbs, $387

1/4" & 1/2" Parr Pine ACX - 280 lbs, $387

1/2" & 1/2" MDO - 387 lbs, $460

1/2" & 3/4" MDO - 466 lbs, $531

6mm & 12mm Crosscut BS 1088 - 350 lbs, $672


I included heavier weights with the thinking that a heavier boat may be more durable and stable as long as the weight is kept low.  Also, I'm using an 18 outboard to power this. I have budgeted for the most expensive options, but wouldn't mind saving money where possible. The finish will be painted without any fiberglass. What are some opinions? Thanks, Mark



Mud Hole lol

Cheryl Libby
 

Hello there,

David and I will be there with our trailer, 4 kayaks (if anyone wants to borrow one) and two dogs.   Are there any pot lucks or anything I need to know about so I can bring supplies?


Cheryl


Fern Ridge Spring Messabout Next Weekend (May 20-22)

 

Don't forget the messabout next weekend at the Mudhole:

http://www.coots.org/mb/FernRidge/

Usually a fun one. I'm moored on E dock, if you want to tie your boat up
somewhere near me.

--
John (jkohnen@boat-links.com)
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on
the unthinking. (John Maynard Keynes)


At the Boathouse last weekend

Andrew Linn
 

Y'all are missing out. Over the next couple weekends, we are going to be going gangbusters. Next weekend we will be skinning one kayak while adding stems and the keel to the other two. The weekend after that? Bending ribs on two kayaks.

This is good boat building skills, folks. Come on down.

http://toledocommunityboathouse.com/2016/160514_deskin/index.htm


Messabout today and new just launched feature

Claire Acord
 

Hey guys, not to late to get out and enjoy what the weather mavens seem to think is the last day of our warm spell...Anacortes Pull and Be Damned will be happening all day!  Check out the details here:
http://www.tsca.net/puget/
and while on that page, be sure and feast your eyes on Marty and Mo's just launched Eel...lovely!
see you on the water
Claire

Stay afloat with current events....visit Traditional Small Craft Association - Puget Sound's website:
http://www.tsca.net/puget/
Claire Acord


Doing the Palooza and/or Crooza?

Marty
 

Amazingly, we'll be enjoying the 5th annual Pocket Yacht Palooza in less than 30 days (Saturday, June 11), along with the four-day Palooza Crooza (June 12-15…with the option to shorten your participation if necessary), so it's time to let us know if you're bringing a boat to one or both events.


As you know, our registration requirements are minimal and everything is free. You can bring a wooden boat, a fiberglass rowing or sailing boat, skin-on-frame or whatever…as long as it's interesting and it fits your definition of a "small craft." (Most of the boats displayed at the Pocket Yacht Palooza are in the 6'-24' range, but there are no rules, except for a general focus on interesting design, with function being way more important than the number of coats of varnish.)


All we need to know is what you're bringing--boat design, overall length, and whether you plan to display the boat on its trailer at the Palooza; hauled up on the adjoining Northwest Maritime Center beach or perhaps anchored just offshore. You can find all details on the Pocket Yacht Palooza and Palooza Crooza at our website, http://www.pocketyachters.com and to register, just email me at Norseboater22@...


Thanks, and we'll see you there! - Marty



article

Jhcalbany@aol.com
 

Do any of you have some good interior pictures of my shanty boat? John? The boat is put away in the shed and it's too dark for picts. If you have some, would you let me use them?

Thank you,

Jim Cooper


Re: [MessaboutW] Race 2 Alaska

Hank
 

Very interesting description of the racers and their craft.

NHank

On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 12:55 AM, 'John Kohnen' jkohnen@... [MessaboutW] <MessaboutW@...> wrote:
They're getting an interesting lineup of participants for the 2016 R2AK:

https://r2ak.com/full-race-participants2016/

One Coot team so far -- Team Archimedes.

Anyone who finished the race is a winner. :o)

--
John (jkohnen@...)
To delight in war is a merit in the soldier, a dangerous quality
in the captain, and a positive crime in the statesman. (George
Santayana)


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------------------------------------

No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite. New members have their messages moderated until after their first message is posted. Information about the Coots and their events can be found at http://www.coots.org/
------------------------------------

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Lastest on our kayak build

Andrew Linn
 


Race 2 Alaska

 

They're getting an interesting lineup of participants for the 2016 R2AK:

https://r2ak.com/full-race-participants2016/

One Coot team so far -- Team Archimedes.

Anyone who finished the race is a winner. :o)

--
John (jkohnen@boat-links.com)
To delight in war is a merit in the soldier, a dangerous quality
in the captain, and a positive crime in the statesman. (George
Santayana)


Re: [MessaboutW] For sale- Orca

 

Here are some photos I've taken of Orca over the years:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/jze4b7k

She's a good all-around boat.

On Sat, 07 May 2016 08:07:53 -0700, Phil P wrote:

Pictures ?

From: mailto:MessaboutW@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 9:27 PM
To: MessaboutW@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MessaboutW] For sale- Orca

I bought Orca from Dick to add funds for his tug boat project.

Now I need funds to move along with my next project.

I'd like the boat to remain in the Coot Club. I won't be advertising it outside. But may need too when the wife finds out!

Trailer, sailing rig, sails (Orca's getting a bit old for that).

Clinton engine negotiable. I like to fire it off and listen to it pop pop pop pop

Price $1,500
--
John (jkohnen@boat-links.com)
When they go fishing, it is not really fish they are after. It
is a philosophic meditation. (Edwin Tylor Brown)

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