M17 Manuals Overview


Pixey
 

Well, I just finished reading through the 2 manuals for the M17. While I am sure those who have already decided whether or not to get an M17 will be comfortable with their decision, I came to the conclusion that there is still no perfect machine. LOL! While the screen layouts are a little different, much of the functionality and icons used are the same as the 15000. So the learning curve is not as dramatic as changing brands. That said, a few things jumped out at me…

In the plus side of “What is new and significant” category…
The stitch regulator feature for free motion and ruler work, which I know some individuals have really, really wanted.

The side mounted embroidery unit with easier hoop attachment and removal.

The ginormous hoop and more intermediate hoops come standard than with any of the competitors. Plus, the likelihood that DIME will jump on the design with a magnetic snap hoop.

The red dot (laser) feature to line up embroidery design placement in the hoop.

The really wide throat area with good lighting, etc. On the funny side, they keep hyping the 91 needle positions, but that is already on several other 9mm machines (S9, 15000, etc).

On the other side of “what has changed headaches”…
The explicit instructions on how to lift this machine are VERY different than prior machines and likely to make it difficult to lift it in and out of a trolly. They actually warn not to use the handle. You are supposed to lift and carry it using new fingerhold slots under each end of the base of the machine. I am slightly under 5’ and have proportionately short arms and this may be a physical deal breaker for me. Ironically, these same factors are why I struggle to reach the embroidery hoop connections on the 15000 and why I was keenly interested in the M17.

If you are a cloth guide user, they have made a major change there. It is now a static, manually adjusted ruler-like attachment that connects like the bobbin cover plate. Will be curious to see the dealer demo to determine how sturdy it is, but the fine tune positioning of having it on the embroidery arm is gone.

No included extension table for regular sewing. IF I decide to get one, I will want to wait until Sew Steady has a compatible extension table for my ruler work. Also, from the looks of things and their hooping instructions, there is not likely to be a physical Clothsetter equivalent. For me this is an irritant because I often embroider things that lay on top of the hoop and obscure the hoops marks needed to use the AcuSetter App.
Nothing has much changed in the embroidery mode side in terms of available on screen editing. In fact when I compared the 15000 and M17 manuals, they even use the same built in designs for the screen examples of moving designs, converting to a single color, etc. However, the M17 manual does explicitly warn against using the optic magnifiers when in embroidery mode.

A couple of additional observations about the cool new features…
I was surprised to see that the red dot feature is actually a separate embroidery foot and not built into the machine head. This was not clear in some of the video highlight demos I have seen.

The ruler work stitch regulator sensor sounds like it may be really sensitive to marks on top of the rulers and not compatible with opaque ones. I know our teacher mentioned that there are some rulers you actually have to flip to use (hearts maybe?) and she will be showing us how to mark different start stop points. Also most of the grip tapes are not transparent. This may be something to test on the store machine to see how sensitive this actually is.

And finally in the amusing category, Janome still does not clearly explain where to put embroidery files on the USB for the machine to read them.

Pixey


Carolyn Gazerro
 

Great analysis Pixsie.  Wonder if they will come out with a newer machine with the M17 embroidery setup? 

As you said the 15000 has pretty much all that is necessary.  


Patricia Ward
 

Thank you, Pixey for that complete analysis.  
I have already decided that this machine is not for me because like you, I am barely 5' tall and also I am almost 80 so with those two things in mind this machine is just out of my physical realm to deal with.  The size, the weight, the shapes and NO FREE ARM..  that would really bother me.  And like you I too thought that it has most of the 15000 features incorporated into it.  One disadvantage too that I see is that you always have to remove the embroidery unit for quilting or sewing because of the way it is positioned whereas with the 15000 you can leave the embroidery unit on the back and your large table still fits to do quilting or sewing.  I like that very much because then I am not always having to fiddle with removing the embroidery unit or reattach the embroidery unit.  Yes, as one ages these things are important. 

I really love my 15000 and even after having it since 2014, I am still learning many new things it will do as we go along with the presentations on FB and with the FB workbook group.  I feel as though I am playing catch up for a few months now as I had not been sewing in over a year due to the sudden death of my husband and having to clean out and prepare a house we had lived in for 40 years to sell.  It sold in 5 days and settled in 2 weeks and now I am still trying to find things in boxes and containers in my apartment. 

Again, thank you for all of that information,

Pat W



On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 6:10 PM Pixey via groups.io <pixeyam=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Well, I just finished reading through the 2 manuals for the M17.  While I am sure those who have already decided whether or not to get an M17 will be comfortable with their decision, I came to the conclusion that there is still no perfect machine.  LOL!  While the screen layouts are a little different, much of the functionality and icons used are the same as the 15000.  So the learning curve is not as dramatic as changing brands.  That said, a few things jumped out at me…

In the plus side of “What is new and significant” category…
The stitch regulator feature for free motion and ruler work, which I know some individuals have really, really wanted.

The side mounted embroidery unit with easier hoop attachment and removal.

The ginormous hoop and more intermediate hoops come standard than with any of the competitors.  Plus, the likelihood that DIME will jump on the design with a magnetic snap hoop.

The red dot (laser) feature to line up embroidery design placement in the hoop.

The really wide throat area with good lighting, etc.  On the funny side, they keep hyping the 91 needle positions, but that is already on several other 9mm machines (S9, 15000, etc).

On the other side of “what has changed headaches”…
The explicit instructions on how to lift this machine are VERY different than prior machines and likely to make it difficult to lift it in and out of a trolly.    They actually warn not to use the handle.  You are supposed to lift and carry it using new fingerhold slots under each end of the base of the machine.  I am slightly under 5’ and have proportionately short arms and this may be a physical deal breaker for me.  Ironically, these same factors are why I struggle to reach the embroidery hoop connections on the 15000 and why I was keenly interested in the M17.

If you are a cloth guide user, they have made a major change there.  It is now a static, manually adjusted ruler-like attachment that connects like the bobbin cover plate.  Will be curious to see the dealer demo to determine how sturdy it is, but the fine tune positioning of having it on the embroidery arm is gone.

No included extension table for regular sewing.  IF I decide to get one, I will want to wait until Sew Steady has a compatible extension table for my ruler work.  Also, from the looks of things and their hooping instructions, there is not likely to be a physical Clothsetter equivalent.  For me this is an irritant because I often embroider things that lay on top of the hoop and obscure the hoops marks needed to use the AcuSetter App. 
Nothing has much changed in the embroidery mode side in terms of available on screen editing.  In fact when I compared the 15000 and M17 manuals, they even use the same built in designs for the screen examples of moving designs, converting to a single color, etc.  However, the M17 manual does explicitly warn against using the optic magnifiers when in embroidery mode.

A couple of additional observations about the cool new features…
I was surprised to see that the red dot feature is actually a separate embroidery foot and not built into the machine head.  This was not clear in some of the video highlight demos I have seen.

The ruler work stitch regulator sensor sounds like it may be really sensitive to marks on top of the rulers and not compatible with opaque ones.  I know our teacher mentioned that there are some rulers you actually have to flip to use (hearts maybe?) and she will be showing us how to mark different start stop points.  Also most of the grip tapes are not transparent.  This may be something to test on the store machine to see how sensitive this actually is. 

And finally in the amusing category, Janome still does not clearly explain where to put embroidery files on the USB for the machine to read them.

Pixey






Pam Davison
 

As much as I want the M17 – I had to come to my senses and realize it is too expensive for me. 

 

My dealer got the machine down to a “reasonable” price but only if I traded in my 15000, M7, and my MC 550.  I decided at that point maybe it is time for me to learn/use all the features of my current machines.

 

If the price comes down I may revisit the M17 but for now it is not an option.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Patricia Ward
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 5:42 PM
To: onlinesewing-janome@groups.io
Subject: Re: [onlinesewing-janome] M17 Manuals Overview

 

Thank you, Pixey for that complete analysis.  

I have already decided that this machine is not for me because like you, I am barely 5' tall and also I am almost 80 so with those two things in mind this machine is just out of my physical realm to deal with.  The size, the weight, the shapes and NO FREE ARM..  that would really bother me.  And like you I too thought that it has most of the 15000 features incorporated into it.  One disadvantage too that I see is that you always have to remove the embroidery unit for quilting or sewing because of the way it is positioned whereas with the 15000 you can leave the embroidery unit on the back and your large table still fits to do quilting or sewing.  I like that very much because then I am not always having to fiddle with removing the embroidery unit or reattach the embroidery unit.  Yes, as one ages these things are important. 

 

I really love my 15000 and even after having it since 2014, I am still learning many new things it will do as we go along with the presentations on FB and with the FB workbook group.  I feel as though I am playing catch up for a few months now as I had not been sewing in over a year due to the sudden death of my husband and having to clean out and prepare a house we had lived in for 40 years to sell.  It sold in 5 days and settled in 2 weeks and now I am still trying to find things in boxes and containers in my apartment. 

 

Again, thank you for all of that information,

 

Pat W

 

 

 

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 6:10 PM Pixey via groups.io <pixeyam=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Well, I just finished reading through the 2 manuals for the M17.  While I am sure those who have already decided whether or not to get an M17 will be comfortable with their decision, I came to the conclusion that there is still no perfect machine.  LOL!  While the screen layouts are a little different, much of the functionality and icons used are the same as the 15000.  So the learning curve is not as dramatic as changing brands.  That said, a few things jumped out at me…

In the plus side of “What is new and significant” category…
The stitch regulator feature for free motion and ruler work, which I know some individuals have really, really wanted.

The side mounted embroidery unit with easier hoop attachment and removal.

The ginormous hoop and more intermediate hoops come standard than with any of the competitors.  Plus, the likelihood that DIME will jump on the design with a magnetic snap hoop.

The red dot (laser) feature to line up embroidery design placement in the hoop.

The really wide throat area with good lighting, etc.  On the funny side, they keep hyping the 91 needle positions, but that is already on several other 9mm machines (S9, 15000, etc).

On the other side of “what has changed headaches”…
The explicit instructions on how to lift this machine are VERY different than prior machines and likely to make it difficult to lift it in and out of a trolly.    They actually warn not to use the handle.  You are supposed to lift and carry it using new fingerhold slots under each end of the base of the machine.  I am slightly under 5’ and have proportionately short arms and this may be a physical deal breaker for me.  Ironically, these same factors are why I struggle to reach the embroidery hoop connections on the 15000 and why I was keenly interested in the M17.

If you are a cloth guide user, they have made a major change there.  It is now a static, manually adjusted ruler-like attachment that connects like the bobbin cover plate.  Will be curious to see the dealer demo to determine how sturdy it is, but the fine tune positioning of having it on the embroidery arm is gone.

No included extension table for regular sewing.  IF I decide to get one, I will want to wait until Sew Steady has a compatible extension table for my ruler work.  Also, from the looks of things and their hooping instructions, there is not likely to be a physical Clothsetter equivalent.  For me this is an irritant because I often embroider things that lay on top of the hoop and obscure the hoops marks needed to use the AcuSetter App. 
Nothing has much changed in the embroidery mode side in terms of available on screen editing.  In fact when I compared the 15000 and M17 manuals, they even use the same built in designs for the screen examples of moving designs, converting to a single color, etc.  However, the M17 manual does explicitly warn against using the optic magnifiers when in embroidery mode.

A couple of additional observations about the cool new features…
I was surprised to see that the red dot feature is actually a separate embroidery foot and not built into the machine head.  This was not clear in some of the video highlight demos I have seen.

The ruler work stitch regulator sensor sounds like it may be really sensitive to marks on top of the rulers and not compatible with opaque ones.  I know our teacher mentioned that there are some rulers you actually have to flip to use (hearts maybe?) and she will be showing us how to mark different start stop points.  Also most of the grip tapes are not transparent.  This may be something to test on the store machine to see how sensitive this actually is. 

And finally in the amusing category, Janome still does not clearly explain where to put embroidery files on the USB for the machine to read them.

Pixey




 


Kathy Skagen <kagen48@...>
 

Pat,
I'm really sorry to hear that you lost your husband and had to move. I can only imagine how difficult that must have been. I hope that you can get things unboxed and where you want them soon. One good thing is that it may not take as much time to keep the apartment clean and tidy which will give you more time to sew. :-)
I am getting ready to jump into the 15000 workbook and catch up with the group. 
Kathy

On Thursday, April 28, 2022, 05:42:34 PM CDT, Patricia Ward <ward.pm@...> wrote:


Thank you, Pixey for that complete analysis.  
I have already decided that this machine is not for me because like you, I am barely 5' tall and also I am almost 80 so with those two things in mind this machine is just out of my physical realm to deal with.  The size, the weight, the shapes and NO FREE ARM..  that would really bother me.  And like you I too thought that it has most of the 15000 features incorporated into it.  One disadvantage too that I see is that you always have to remove the embroidery unit for quilting or sewing because of the way it is positioned whereas with the 15000 you can leave the embroidery unit on the back and your large table still fits to do quilting or sewing.  I like that very much because then I am not always having to fiddle with removing the embroidery unit or reattach the embroidery unit.  Yes, as one ages these things are important. 

I really love my 15000 and even after having it since 2014, I am still learning many new things it will do as we go along with the presentations on FB and with the FB workbook group.  I feel as though I am playing catch up for a few months now as I had not been sewing in over a year due to the sudden death of my husband and having to clean out and prepare a house we had lived in for 40 years to sell.  It sold in 5 days and settled in 2 weeks and now I am still trying to find things in boxes and containers in my apartment. 

Again, thank you for all of that information,

Pat W



On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 6:10 PM Pixey via groups.io <pixeyam=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Well, I just finished reading through the 2 manuals for the M17.  While I am sure those who have already decided whether or not to get an M17 will be comfortable with their decision, I came to the conclusion that there is still no perfect machine.  LOL!  While the screen layouts are a little different, much of the functionality and icons used are the same as the 15000.  So the learning curve is not as dramatic as changing brands.  That said, a few things jumped out at me…

In the plus side of “What is new and significant” category…
The stitch regulator feature for free motion and ruler work, which I know some individuals have really, really wanted.

The side mounted embroidery unit with easier hoop attachment and removal.

The ginormous hoop and more intermediate hoops come standard than with any of the competitors.  Plus, the likelihood that DIME will jump on the design with a magnetic snap hoop.

The red dot (laser) feature to line up embroidery design placement in the hoop.

The really wide throat area with good lighting, etc.  On the funny side, they keep hyping the 91 needle positions, but that is already on several other 9mm machines (S9, 15000, etc).

On the other side of “what has changed headaches”…
The explicit instructions on how to lift this machine are VERY different than prior machines and likely to make it difficult to lift it in and out of a trolly.    They actually warn not to use the handle.  You are supposed to lift and carry it using new fingerhold slots under each end of the base of the machine.  I am slightly under 5’ and have proportionately short arms and this may be a physical deal breaker for me.  Ironically, these same factors are why I struggle to reach the embroidery hoop connections on the 15000 and why I was keenly interested in the M17.

If you are a cloth guide user, they have made a major change there.  It is now a static, manually adjusted ruler-like attachment that connects like the bobbin cover plate.  Will be curious to see the dealer demo to determine how sturdy it is, but the fine tune positioning of having it on the embroidery arm is gone.

No included extension table for regular sewing.  IF I decide to get one, I will want to wait until Sew Steady has a compatible extension table for my ruler work.  Also, from the looks of things and their hooping instructions, there is not likely to be a physical Clothsetter equivalent.  For me this is an irritant because I often embroider things that lay on top of the hoop and obscure the hoops marks needed to use the AcuSetter App. 
Nothing has much changed in the embroidery mode side in terms of available on screen editing.  In fact when I compared the 15000 and M17 manuals, they even use the same built in designs for the screen examples of moving designs, converting to a single color, etc.  However, the M17 manual does explicitly warn against using the optic magnifiers when in embroidery mode.

A couple of additional observations about the cool new features…
I was surprised to see that the red dot feature is actually a separate embroidery foot and not built into the machine head.  This was not clear in some of the video highlight demos I have seen.

The ruler work stitch regulator sensor sounds like it may be really sensitive to marks on top of the rulers and not compatible with opaque ones.  I know our teacher mentioned that there are some rulers you actually have to flip to use (hearts maybe?) and she will be showing us how to mark different start stop points.  Also most of the grip tapes are not transparent.  This may be something to test on the store machine to see how sensitive this actually is. 

And finally in the amusing category, Janome still does not clearly explain where to put embroidery files on the USB for the machine to read them.

Pixey






Lyn Quine
 

I thought that about having to remove the unit to quilt and I couldn’t believe that a machine that size and cost an extension is an added extra!  No free arm, this machines might have lots of features at the top end but they have dropped off essentials for many of us.


On 28 Apr 2022, at 23:42, Patricia Ward <ward.pm@...> wrote:


Thank you, Pixey for that complete analysis.  
I have already decided that this machine is not for me because like you, I am barely 5' tall and also I am almost 80 so with those two things in mind this machine is just out of my physical realm to deal with.  The size, the weight, the shapes and NO FREE ARM..  that would really bother me.  And like you I too thought that it has most of the 15000 features incorporated into it.  One disadvantage too that I see is that you always have to remove the embroidery unit for quilting or sewing because of the way it is positioned whereas with the 15000 you can leave the embroidery unit on the back and your large table still fits to do quilting or sewing.  I like that very much because then I am not always having to fiddle with removing the embroidery unit or reattach the embroidery unit.  Yes, as one ages these things are important. 

I really love my 15000 and even after having it since 2014, I am still learning many new things it will do as we go along with the presentations on FB and with the FB workbook group.  I feel as though I am playing catch up for a few months now as I had not been sewing in over a year due to the sudden death of my husband and having to clean out and prepare a house we had lived in for 40 years to sell.  It sold in 5 days and settled in 2 weeks and now I am still trying to find things in boxes and containers in my apartment. 

Again, thank you for all of that information,

Pat W



On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 6:10 PM Pixey via groups.io <pixeyam=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Well, I just finished reading through the 2 manuals for the M17.  While I am sure those who have already decided whether or not to get an M17 will be comfortable with their decision, I came to the conclusion that there is still no perfect machine.  LOL!  While the screen layouts are a little different, much of the functionality and icons used are the same as the 15000.  So the learning curve is not as dramatic as changing brands.  That said, a few things jumped out at me…

In the plus side of “What is new and significant” category…
The stitch regulator feature for free motion and ruler work, which I know some individuals have really, really wanted.

The side mounted embroidery unit with easier hoop attachment and removal.

The ginormous hoop and more intermediate hoops come standard than with any of the competitors.  Plus, the likelihood that DIME will jump on the design with a magnetic snap hoop.

The red dot (laser) feature to line up embroidery design placement in the hoop.

The really wide throat area with good lighting, etc.  On the funny side, they keep hyping the 91 needle positions, but that is already on several other 9mm machines (S9, 15000, etc).

On the other side of “what has changed headaches”…
The explicit instructions on how to lift this machine are VERY different than prior machines and likely to make it difficult to lift it in and out of a trolly.    They actually warn not to use the handle.  You are supposed to lift and carry it using new fingerhold slots under each end of the base of the machine.  I am slightly under 5’ and have proportionately short arms and this may be a physical deal breaker for me.  Ironically, these same factors are why I struggle to reach the embroidery hoop connections on the 15000 and why I was keenly interested in the M17.

If you are a cloth guide user, they have made a major change there.  It is now a static, manually adjusted ruler-like attachment that connects like the bobbin cover plate.  Will be curious to see the dealer demo to determine how sturdy it is, but the fine tune positioning of having it on the embroidery arm is gone.

No included extension table for regular sewing.  IF I decide to get one, I will want to wait until Sew Steady has a compatible extension table for my ruler work.  Also, from the looks of things and their hooping instructions, there is not likely to be a physical Clothsetter equivalent.  For me this is an irritant because I often embroider things that lay on top of the hoop and obscure the hoops marks needed to use the AcuSetter App. 
Nothing has much changed in the embroidery mode side in terms of available on screen editing.  In fact when I compared the 15000 and M17 manuals, they even use the same built in designs for the screen examples of moving designs, converting to a single color, etc.  However, the M17 manual does explicitly warn against using the optic magnifiers when in embroidery mode.

A couple of additional observations about the cool new features…
I was surprised to see that the red dot feature is actually a separate embroidery foot and not built into the machine head.  This was not clear in some of the video highlight demos I have seen.

The ruler work stitch regulator sensor sounds like it may be really sensitive to marks on top of the rulers and not compatible with opaque ones.  I know our teacher mentioned that there are some rulers you actually have to flip to use (hearts maybe?) and she will be showing us how to mark different start stop points.  Also most of the grip tapes are not transparent.  This may be something to test on the store machine to see how sensitive this actually is. 

And finally in the amusing category, Janome still does not clearly explain where to put embroidery files on the USB for the machine to read them.

Pixey






Cat - N
 

The placement of the embroidery unit on Janome machines was a big factor choosing a machine for me.  I saw the 11000 when it first came out and loved it!  I liked the 15000’s 91 needle positions, too…doubt software updates could add those mechanics, compared to 57 needle positions for many 7mm non-Janome machines (the 7mm 11000 has 71 needle positions).  

Having over 30 years in I.T., and computers being a hobby before that, I am well acquainted with bent/broken connector pins, peripheral breakage/damage, and connector pin oxidation, and the rear attaching Janome embroidery unit seems absolutely excellent to minimize all those issues.  My friend bought a 14000 several years ago, and when the embroidery unit was first attached, the 14000 didn’t recognize it. She called me and I offered a ‘techie test’ which turned out to be exactly the connector pin oxidation issue, and easily remedied, and she’s had no further issues. So, having to repeatedly remove, store, handle, and reinstall the embroidery unit is a consideration for me.  For a larger embroidery field/hoops, I’m thinking maybe a multi needle might be a better idea. A long arm with robotics already lives here, as does a Janome HD9BE for heavy duty, a 15000, an 11000, a 100-stitch computerized Kenmore made by Janome (purchased in January 1994 and in perfect working order), and not a lot of space, so I’m very carefully considering the ‘what next’ products.  

It might be nice to be able to get additional (aftermarket? specialty?) hoops, but I’m not sure where that balance truly is. 


- Cat

Typos courtesy of autocorrect. 




On Apr 29, 2022 at 4:04 AM, <Lyn Quine> wrote:

I thought that about having to remove the unit to quilt and I couldn’t believe that a machine that size and cost an extension is an added extra!  No free arm, this machines might have lots of features at the top end but they have dropped off essentials for many of us.


On 28 Apr 2022, at 23:42, Patricia Ward <ward.pm@...> wrote:


Thank you, Pixey for that complete analysis.  
I have already decided that this machine is not for me because like you, I am barely 5' tall and also I am almost 80 so with those two things in mind this machine is just out of my physical realm to deal with.  The size, the weight, the shapes and NO FREE ARM..  that would really bother me.  And like you I too thought that it has most of the 15000 features incorporated into it.  One disadvantage too that I see is that you always have to remove the embroidery unit for quilting or sewing because of the way it is positioned whereas with the 15000 you can leave the embroidery unit on the back and your large table still fits to do quilting or sewing.  I like that very much because then I am not always having to fiddle with removing the embroidery unit or reattach the embroidery unit.  Yes, as one ages these things are important. 

I really love my 15000 and even after having it since 2014, I am still learning many new things it will do as we go along with the presentations on FB and with the FB workbook group.  I feel as though I am playing catch up for a few months now as I had not been sewing in over a year due to the sudden death of my husband and having to clean out and prepare a house we had lived in for 40 years to sell.  It sold in 5 days and settled in 2 weeks and now I am still trying to find things in boxes and containers in my apartment. 

Again, thank you for all of that information,

Pat W



On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 6:10 PM Pixey via groups.io <pixeyam=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Well, I just finished reading through the 2 manuals for the M17.  While I am sure those who have already decided whether or not to get an M17 will be comfortable with their decision, I came to the conclusion that there is still no perfect machine.  LOL!  While the screen layouts are a little different, much of the functionality and icons used are the same as the 15000.  So the learning curve is not as dramatic as changing brands.  That said, a few things jumped out at me…

In the plus side of “What is new and significant” category…
The stitch regulator feature for free motion and ruler work, which I know some individuals have really, really wanted.

The side mounted embroidery unit with easier hoop attachment and removal.

The ginormous hoop and more intermediate hoops come standard than with any of the competitors.  Plus, the likelihood that DIME will jump on the design with a magnetic snap hoop.

The red dot (laser) feature to line up embroidery design placement in the hoop.

The really wide throat area with good lighting, etc.  On the funny side, they keep hyping the 91 needle positions, but that is already on several other 9mm machines (S9, 15000, etc).

On the other side of “what has changed headaches”…
The explicit instructions on how to lift this machine are VERY different than prior machines and likely to make it difficult to lift it in and out of a trolly.    They actually warn not to use the handle.  You are supposed to lift and carry it using new fingerhold slots under each end of the base of the machine.  I am slightly under 5’ and have proportionately short arms and this may be a physical deal breaker for me.  Ironically, these same factors are why I struggle to reach the embroidery hoop connections on the 15000 and why I was keenly interested in the M17.

If you are a cloth guide user, they have made a major change there.  It is now a static, manually adjusted ruler-like attachment that connects like the bobbin cover plate.  Will be curious to see the dealer demo to determine how sturdy it is, but the fine tune positioning of having it on the embroidery arm is gone.

No included extension table for regular sewing.  IF I decide to get one, I will want to wait until Sew Steady has a compatible extension table for my ruler work.  Also, from the looks of things and their hooping instructions, there is not likely to be a physical Clothsetter equivalent.  For me this is an irritant because I often embroider things that lay on top of the hoop and obscure the hoops marks needed to use the AcuSetter App. 
Nothing has much changed in the embroidery mode side in terms of available on screen editing.  In fact when I compared the 15000 and M17 manuals, they even use the same built in designs for the screen examples of moving designs, converting to a single color, etc.  However, the M17 manual does explicitly warn against using the optic magnifiers when in embroidery mode.

A couple of additional observations about the cool new features…
I was surprised to see that the red dot feature is actually a separate embroidery foot and not built into the machine head.  This was not clear in some of the video highlight demos I have seen.

The ruler work stitch regulator sensor sounds like it may be really sensitive to marks on top of the rulers and not compatible with opaque ones.  I know our teacher mentioned that there are some rulers you actually have to flip to use (hearts maybe?) and she will be showing us how to mark different start stop points.  Also most of the grip tapes are not transparent.  This may be something to test on the store machine to see how sensitive this actually is. 

And finally in the amusing category, Janome still does not clearly explain where to put embroidery files on the USB for the machine to read them.

Pixey






Jayni Bloch
 

Thank you Pixey for the detailed analysis of the M17 Manual in comparison to the MC15000. I appreciate your sharing of your impressions.
Yes, it is indeed a very difficult decision to make; upgrading or not? I love my MC15000 and would love the bigger hoop and the stitch regulator for my free motion quilting work I also do a lot of. But that is it! The rest I already have with my 15000. Having said that, I go back and forth between realism and desire for the new glitter! Such a torturing state to be in! The price of the thing keeps me sane however. Hahah.
It is nice to be part of this email group,
Jayni




 

On Apr 29, 2022, at 10:04 AM, Cat - N via groups.io <navillusc@...> wrote:

The placement of the embroidery unit on Janome machines was a big factor choosing a machine for me.  I saw the 11000 when it first came out and loved it!  I liked the 15000’s 91 needle positions, too…doubt software updates could add those mechanics, compared to 57 needle positions for many 7mm non-Janome machines (the 7mm 11000 has 71 needle positions).  

Having over 30 years in I.T., and computers being a hobby before that, I am well acquainted with bent/broken connector pins, peripheral breakage/damage, and connector pin oxidation, and the rear attaching Janome embroidery unit seems absolutely excellent to minimize all those issues.  My friend bought a 14000 several years ago, and when the embroidery unit was first attached, the 14000 didn’t recognize it. She called me and I offered a ‘techie test’ which turned out to be exactly the connector pin oxidation issue, and easily remedied, and she’s had no further issues. So, having to repeatedly remove, store, handle, and reinstall the embroidery unit is a consideration for me.  For a larger embroidery field/hoops, I’m thinking maybe a multi needle might be a better idea. A long arm with robotics already lives here, as does a Janome HD9BE for heavy duty, a 15000, an 11000, a 100-stitch computerized Kenmore made by Janome (purchased in January 1994 and in perfect working order), and not a lot of space, so I’m very carefully considering the ‘what next’ products.  

It might be nice to be able to get additional (aftermarket? specialty?) hoops, but I’m not sure where that balance truly is. 


- Cat

Typos courtesy of autocorrect. 



On Apr 29, 2022 at 4:04 AM, <Lyn Quine> wrote:

I thought that about having to remove the unit to quilt and I couldn’t believe that a machine that size and cost an extension is an added extra!  No free arm, this machines might have lots of features at the top end but they have dropped off essentials for many of us.


On 28 Apr 2022, at 23:42, Patricia Ward <ward.pm@...> wrote:


Thank you, Pixey for that complete analysis.  
I have already decided that this machine is not for me because like you, I am barely 5' tall and also I am almost 80 so with those two things in mind this machine is just out of my physical realm to deal with.  The size, the weight, the shapes and NO FREE ARM..  that would really bother me.  And like you I too thought that it has most of the 15000 features incorporated into it.  One disadvantage too that I see is that you always have to remove the embroidery unit for quilting or sewing because of the way it is positioned whereas with the 15000 you can leave the embroidery unit on the back and your large table still fits to do quilting or sewing.  I like that very much because then I am not always having to fiddle with removing the embroidery unit or reattach the embroidery unit.  Yes, as one ages these things are important. 

I really love my 15000 and even after having it since 2014, I am still learning many new things it will do as we go along with the presentations on FB and with the FB workbook group.  I feel as though I am playing catch up for a few months now as I had not been sewing in over a year due to the sudden death of my husband and having to clean out and prepare a house we had lived in for 40 years to sell.  It sold in 5 days and settled in 2 weeks and now I am still trying to find things in boxes and containers in my apartment. 

Again, thank you for all of that information,

Pat W



On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 6:10 PM Pixey via groups.io <pixeyam=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Well, I just finished reading through the 2 manuals for the M17.  While I am sure those who have already decided whether or not to get an M17 will be comfortable with their decision, I came to the conclusion that there is still no perfect machine.  LOL!  While the screen layouts are a little different, much of the functionality and icons used are the same as the 15000.  So the learning curve is not as dramatic as changing brands.  That said, a few things jumped out at me…

In the plus side of “What is new and significant” category…
The stitch regulator feature for free motion and ruler work, which I know some individuals have really, really wanted.

The side mounted embroidery unit with easier hoop attachment and removal.

The ginormous hoop and more intermediate hoops come standard than with any of the competitors.  Plus, the likelihood that DIME will jump on the design with a magnetic snap hoop.

The red dot (laser) feature to line up embroidery design placement in the hoop.

The really wide throat area with good lighting, etc.  On the funny side, they keep hyping the 91 needle positions, but that is already on several other 9mm machines (S9, 15000, etc).

On the other side of “what has changed headaches”…
The explicit instructions on how to lift this machine are VERY different than prior machines and likely to make it difficult to lift it in and out of a trolly.    They actually warn not to use the handle.  You are supposed to lift and carry it using new fingerhold slots under each end of the base of the machine.  I am slightly under 5’ and have proportionately short arms and this may be a physical deal breaker for me.  Ironically, these same factors are why I struggle to reach the embroidery hoop connections on the 15000 and why I was keenly interested in the M17.

If you are a cloth guide user, they have made a major change there.  It is now a static, manually adjusted ruler-like attachment that connects like the bobbin cover plate.  Will be curious to see the dealer demo to determine how sturdy it is, but the fine tune positioning of having it on the embroidery arm is gone.

No included extension table for regular sewing.  IF I decide to get one, I will want to wait until Sew Steady has a compatible extension table for my ruler work.  Also, from the looks of things and their hooping instructions, there is not likely to be a physical Clothsetter equivalent.  For me this is an irritant because I often embroider things that lay on top of the hoop and obscure the hoops marks needed to use the AcuSetter App.  
Nothing has much changed in the embroidery mode side in terms of available on screen editing.  In fact when I compared the 15000 and M17 manuals, they even use the same built in designs for the screen examples of moving designs, converting to a single color, etc.  However, the M17 manual does explicitly warn against using the optic magnifiers when in embroidery mode.

A couple of additional observations about the cool new features…
I was surprised to see that the red dot feature is actually a separate embroidery foot and not built into the machine head.  This was not clear in some of the video highlight demos I have seen.

The ruler work stitch regulator sensor sounds like it may be really sensitive to marks on top of the rulers and not compatible with opaque ones.  I know our teacher mentioned that there are some rulers you actually have to flip to use (hearts maybe?) and she will be showing us how to mark different start stop points.  Also most of the grip tapes are not transparent.  This may be something to test on the store machine to see how sensitive this actually is.  

And finally in the amusing category, Janome still does not clearly explain where to put embroidery files on the USB for the machine to read them.

Pixey