Don't lie to your 12000


Pinguin
 

Hello Vikki,
you don't need to lie to do what you did.

After selecting a design that needs a certain size of hoop, you go to the placement screen and just select another size of hoop (usually bigger)

With the help of the grid, you can place the design wherever you want.

I used that a lot while sewing out some smaller designs, I just forgot to take the plastic grid away once, so now I have one hole from the needle in it...

Gerda

PS
By reading your message again I think that is what you did, but as long as the machine is told what hoop it is working with I don't call it lying

Op 27-01-12 00:57, Vikki Youngmeyer schreef:

 

That’s cool! I did that years ago with my 350e, but had forgotten about that little tip! Thanks!

 

Another thing I have found is to “lie” to your 12000! You can select any of the hoop sizes no matter which one is attached and play around with the placement of the embroidery. For example, I am doing a Lunch Box quilt with the birds for a sample at work. It needed 16 eggs each on its own 3.5” square. Instead of selecting the 12 x 12  hoop, I selected the next size up and was able to place the eggs as if it was on the larger hoop. I was able to test out each one before stitching it using the non-sew outline feature and placing it according on the grid. That way I made sure I had enough ro


gbmko
 

I'm still new enough at this to be confused. If you just put your design in a "bigger" hoop on the screen, for maximizing placement, and then select the correct hoop for the actual embroidering, will the machine tell you if you made the design too large, and to pick a bigger hoop? Or will you only know by doing the non sew outline feature?

Also, I didn't understand the one comment someone made about not buying the machine if you couldn't upgrade hoops (or something like that). If the machine itself doesn't have a sensor, isn't it just a matter of the software being updated to recognize a new hoop, putting a design in that, and the software telling the embroidery unit what to do for the non sew outline? Obviously, we must be able to use new hoops that Janome comes out with if we are asking for a 5x7...we're not limited to just the "original hoops", correct? Barbara Jean

Sorry for not understanding the mechanics behind all of what is being discussed! Please educate me. thanks Barbara Jean

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "pinguin60@..." <pinguin60@...> wrote:

Hello Vikki,
you don't need to lie to do what you did.

After selecting a design that needs a certain size of hoop, you go to
the placement screen and just select another size of hoop (usually bigger)

With the help of the grid, you can place the design wherever you want.

I used that a lot while sewing out some smaller designs, I just forgot
to take the plastic grid away once, so now I have one hole from the
needle in it...

Gerda

PS
By reading your message again I think that is what you did, but as long
as the machine is told what hoop it is working with I don't call it lying

Op 27-01-12 00:57, Vikki Youngmeyer schreef:

That's cool! I did that years ago with my 350e, but had forgotten
about that little tip! Thanks!

Another thing I have found is to "lie" to your 12000! You can select
any of the hoop sizes no matter which one is attached and play around
with the placement of the embroidery. For example, I am doing a Lunch
Box quilt with the birds for a sample at work. It needed 16 eggs each
on its own 3.5" square. Instead of selecting the 12 x 12 hoop, I
selected the next size up and was able to place the eggs as if it was
on the larger hoop. I was able to test out each one before stitching
it using the non-sew outline feature and placing it according on the
grid. That way I made sure I had enough ro


Jim_Stutsman <jim@...>
 

Each hoop has a small "margin" around the stitching area. This is sort of like the median in a divided highway. You don't drive there, but it adds a bit of safety to keep the cars a little further apart. What they are doing is telling the machine they are using a larger hoop, then placing designs so that they extend into this margin. You have to be super careful not to put them too far in, or the machine will hit the hoop and big trouble ensues. I am NOT giving this "technique" my seal of approval!

You are right about the hoops. Janome can add more hoops at will, and only change the software to support them. What's frustrating is that every embroidery machine prior to this one has had a 5 x 7 hoop. On the 11000 that hoop was added only after a tremendous outcry from users, but it WAS added. Why did they bring out the 12000 without this hoop? One possible clue - the internal model number of the 11000 is 860, while the 12000 is 859. That suggests that the 12000 may have been in development before the 11000, and thus they did not plan for a 5 x 7 hoop. There were probably different teams working on each model, and they may not have exchanged much information with regard to what users want. I'm sure that, given enough screaming from us, Janome will add a 5 x 7 at minimum, and maybe even a 4 x 4.

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "gbmko" <gbmko@...> wrote:

I'm still new enough at this to be confused. If you just put your design in a "bigger" hoop on the screen, for maximizing placement, and then select the correct hoop for the actual embroidering, will the machine tell you if you made the design too large, and to pick a bigger hoop? Or will you only know by doing the non sew outline feature?

Also, I didn't understand the one comment someone made about not buying the machine if you couldn't upgrade hoops (or something like that). If the machine itself doesn't have a sensor, isn't it just a matter of the software being updated to recognize a new hoop, putting a design in that, and the software telling the embroidery unit what to do for the non sew outline? Obviously, we must be able to use new hoops that Janome comes out with if we are asking for a 5x7...we're not limited to just the "original hoops", correct? Barbara Jean

Sorry for not understanding the mechanics behind all of what is being discussed! Please educate me. thanks Barbara Jean


maggie cooper
 

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "Jim_Stutsman" <jim@...> wrote:

You are right about the hoops. Janome can add more hoops at will, and only change the software to support them. What's frustrating is that every embroidery machine prior to this one has had a 5 x 7 hoop. On the 11000 that hoop was added only after a tremendous outcry from users, but it WAS added. Why did they bring out the 12000 without this hoop? One possible clue - the internal model number of the 11000 is 860, while the 12000 is 859. That suggests that the 12000 may have been in development before the 11000, and thus they did not plan for a 5 x 7 hoop. There were probably different teams working on each model, and they may not have exchanged much information with regard to what users want. I'm sure that, given enough screaming from us, Janome will add a 5 x 7 at minimum, and maybe even a 4 x 4.
Jim, I may be bit dense, but WHY purchase a machine with large hoops if your preference is to stitch small designs. I purchased an Industrial embroidery machine after seeing the specs of the 11000 when that was launched. I saw no reason to upgrade from a perfectly serviceable 10000 with its 140x200 hoop to get a 200x200 hoop. I wanted a machine that could embroider jacket back designs in a single hooping.

I'm also reading numerous complaints about wasting fabric and stabilisers. If users insist upon purchasing expensive 'Branded' stabilisers instead of perfectly good suitable unbranded stabilisers such as those sold by http://www.brothermall2.com/Stabilizers/Default.aspx?PCID=6
which commercial embroiderers use day and day out and leave the domestic embroiderers to pay through the nose for 'Names' then yes there is waste. But whose fault is that? certainly not Janomes. They produced what the customers said they wanted, larger hoops, bigger harp area, and thats what they delivered.

As for fabric waste, stitch 'stretcher' strips to the edges of your fabrics, then when embroidered remove the stretchers to be used again.

I know when the 3 of us were testing the software, I was delighted to see at long last Janome had included large hoops (though still not large enough for my needs,) I'm still seriously debating with myself if I 'need,' want, or would just like a 12000. I have to confess if I was offered one I would grab it, but for sewing only. Having been spoiled by owning a 12 needle embroidery machine, the idea of returning to a single needle combi, doesnt fill me with joy. Had the 11000 had the 12000 hoop sizes then I probably would have purchased that and not an industrial machine, but kept my 10000 for the small designs.

Maggie Coops


theagedpage@...
 

not all of us have the luxury of owning all the machines you speak of - many only have one machine to do everything and have had to trade in our old machines to get a new machine - whether it be the 12000 or anything else.
Linda

---- maggiecoops <maggiecoops@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "Jim_Stutsman" <jim@...> wrote:

You are right about the hoops. Janome can add more hoops at will, and only change the software to support them. What's frustrating is that every embroidery machine prior to this one has had a 5 x 7 hoop. On the 11000 that hoop was added only after a tremendous outcry from users, but it WAS added. Why did they bring out the 12000 without this hoop? One possible clue - the internal model number of the 11000 is 860, while the 12000 is 859. That suggests that the 12000 may have been in development before the 11000, and thus they did not plan for a 5 x 7 hoop. There were probably different teams working on each model, and they may not have exchanged much information with regard to what users want. I'm sure that, given enough screaming from us, Janome will add a 5 x 7 at minimum, and maybe even a 4 x 4.
Jim, I may be bit dense, but WHY purchase a machine with large hoops if your preference is to stitch small designs. I purchased an Industrial embroidery machine after seeing the specs of the 11000 when that was launched. I saw no reason to upgrade from a perfectly serviceable 10000 with its 140x200 hoop to get a 200x200 hoop. I wanted a machine that could embroider jacket back designs in a single hooping.

I'm also reading numerous complaints about wasting fabric and stabilisers. If users insist upon purchasing expensive 'Branded' stabilisers instead of perfectly good suitable unbranded stabilisers such as those sold by http://www.brothermall2.com/Stabilizers/Default.aspx?PCID=6
which commercial embroiderers use day and day out and leave the domestic embroiderers to pay through the nose for 'Names' then yes there is waste. But whose fault is that? certainly not Janomes. They produced what the customers said they wanted, larger hoops, bigger harp area, and thats what they delivered.

As for fabric waste, stitch 'stretcher' strips to the edges of your fabrics, then when embroidered remove the stretchers to be used again.

I know when the 3 of us were testing the software, I was delighted to see at long last Janome had included large hoops (though still not large enough for my needs,) I'm still seriously debating with myself if I 'need,' want, or would just like a 12000. I have to confess if I was offered one I would grab it, but for sewing only. Having been spoiled by owning a 12 needle embroidery machine, the idea of returning to a single needle combi, doesnt fill me with joy. Had the 11000 had the 12000 hoop sizes then I probably would have purchased that and not an industrial machine, but kept my 10000 for the small designs.

Maggie Coops


Sherry Martin
 

I totally agree with you. I stitch designs of all different sizes not just large designs (I'm not going to put a large design on a tshirt for my 2 yr old granddaughter for example - which could probably be done with a 4x4 hoop). I only have one machine, the 12000. As I upgraded to the next machine I needed to either sell or trade-in my former machine to be able to afford the next level. And I don't use expensive branded stabilizers, but all stabilizers do cost money even if it is an off-brand especially specialty stabilizers like sticky or water soluble.

I love the big hoops, but feel that such an expensive machine should be able to accommodate hoops in smaller sizes also.

I actually purchased this machine more for the regular sewing features than the sizes of hoops it comes with, but as I said before because of cost it is my only machine.

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, <theagedpage@...> wrote:

not all of us have the luxury of owning all the machines you speak of - many only have one machine to do everything and have had to trade in our old machines to get a new machine - whether it be the 12000 or anything else.
Linda

---- maggiecoops <maggiecoops@...> wrote:


--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "Jim_Stutsman" <jim@> wrote:

You are right about the hoops. Janome can add more hoops at will, and only change the software to support them. What's frustrating is that every embroidery machine prior to this one has had a 5 x 7 hoop. On the 11000 that hoop was added only after a tremendous outcry from users, but it WAS added. Why did they bring out the 12000 without this hoop? One possible clue - the internal model number of the 11000 is 860, while the 12000 is 859. That suggests that the 12000 may have been in development before the 11000, and thus they did not plan for a 5 x 7 hoop. There were probably different teams working on each model, and they may not have exchanged much information with regard to what users want. I'm sure that, given enough screaming from us, Janome will add a 5 x 7 at minimum, and maybe even a 4 x 4.
Jim, I may be bit dense, but WHY purchase a machine with large hoops if your preference is to stitch small designs. I purchased an Industrial embroidery machine after seeing the specs of the 11000 when that was launched. I saw no reason to upgrade from a perfectly serviceable 10000 with its 140x200 hoop to get a 200x200 hoop. I wanted a machine that could embroider jacket back designs in a single hooping.

I'm also reading numerous complaints about wasting fabric and stabilisers. If users insist upon purchasing expensive 'Branded' stabilisers instead of perfectly good suitable unbranded stabilisers such as those sold by http://www.brothermall2.com/Stabilizers/Default.aspx?PCID=6
which commercial embroiderers use day and day out and leave the domestic embroiderers to pay through the nose for 'Names' then yes there is waste. But whose fault is that? certainly not Janomes. They produced what the customers said they wanted, larger hoops, bigger harp area, and thats what they delivered.

As for fabric waste, stitch 'stretcher' strips to the edges of your fabrics, then when embroidered remove the stretchers to be used again.

I know when the 3 of us were testing the software, I was delighted to see at long last Janome had included large hoops (though still not large enough for my needs,) I'm still seriously debating with myself if I 'need,' want, or would just like a 12000. I have to confess if I was offered one I would grab it, but for sewing only. Having been spoiled by owning a 12 needle embroidery machine, the idea of returning to a single needle combi, doesnt fill me with joy. Had the 11000 had the 12000 hoop sizes then I probably would have purchased that and not an industrial machine, but kept my 10000 for the small designs.

Maggie Coops


sewing2171
 

Hi Jim,

Do you know what the small margin is exactly? I bought the 12000 because I wanted bigger hoops to do larger designs. I am struggling to design in Generations as it is telling me that the design is too large for the hoop. I have made a custom hoop for the 230x300 hoop and the design (have re-sized it many times) is not 200x280 I would have thought that this would fit into the hoop easily but Generations is not accepting of this. Any guidance you could give on the size of the embroidery field would be great. Thanks, Nita

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "Jim_Stutsman" <jim@...> wrote:

Each hoop has a small "margin" around the stitching area. This is sort of like the median in a divided highway. You don't drive there, but it adds a bit of safety to keep the cars a little further apart. What they are doing is telling the machine they are using a larger hoop, then placing designs so that they extend into this margin. You have to be super careful not to put them too far in, or the machine will hit the hoop and big trouble ensues. I am NOT giving this "technique" my seal of approval!

You are right about the hoops. Janome can add more hoops at will, and only change the software to support them. What's frustrating is that every embroidery machine prior to this one has had a 5 x 7 hoop. On the 11000 that hoop was added only after a tremendous outcry from users, but it WAS added. Why did they bring out the 12000 without this hoop? One possible clue - the internal model number of the 11000 is 860, while the 12000 is 859. That suggests that the 12000 may have been in development before the 11000, and thus they did not plan for a 5 x 7 hoop. There were probably different teams working on each model, and they may not have exchanged much information with regard to what users want. I'm sure that, given enough screaming from us, Janome will add a 5 x 7 at minimum, and maybe even a 4 x 4.

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "gbmko" <gbmko@> wrote:

I'm still new enough at this to be confused. If you just put your design in a "bigger" hoop on the screen, for maximizing placement, and then select the correct hoop for the actual embroidering, will the machine tell you if you made the design too large, and to pick a bigger hoop? Or will you only know by doing the non sew outline feature?

Also, I didn't understand the one comment someone made about not buying the machine if you couldn't upgrade hoops (or something like that). If the machine itself doesn't have a sensor, isn't it just a matter of the software being updated to recognize a new hoop, putting a design in that, and the software telling the embroidery unit what to do for the non sew outline? Obviously, we must be able to use new hoops that Janome comes out with if we are asking for a 5x7...we're not limited to just the "original hoops", correct? Barbara Jean

Sorry for not understanding the mechanics behind all of what is being discussed! Please educate me. thanks Barbara Jean


Jim_Stutsman <jim@...>
 

Your issue with Generations is not related to the hoop size, as you've pointed out the design is well within the limits of the 12000 hoop. The problem is that the JEF format contains a hoop code that tells the machine what hoop the design needs. Many of the 3rd party programs use a single code for all designs. In the era of the 10000, you could simply tag each design with the hoop B (5 x 7) designation without regard to the size of the design. When the 11000 came out with the larger hoop, this strategy failed. A design might be coded to use the 5 x 7 hoop, when it was actually 7 x 7. EmbLibrary had a set of clock designs that I fixed for a customer. They were all made for the 8 x 8 hoop, but were set to use a 5 x 7 hoop. The machine rejected them because the design exceeded the bounds of the hoop they were coded for.

Lying to the machine won't work for you, because Generations does not code the design properly. The last machine that they handled correctly was the 10000, and they seem to have a lot of problems with their developer(s) in China getting updates. What you need is a program that will properly format your designs. Naturally I would love to see you get Janome Digitizer MBX, but that's a pretty hefty investment considering what you've already sunk into Generations. Happily there is a solution at a good price - free. Wilcom, the company that authors digitizer software for Janome and Bernina, has a free program called True Sizer. You can download it here: http://www.wilcom.com.au/PRODUCTS/TrueSizer.aspx
Save your design from Generations in a "hoopless" format, such as DST or EMB. Open it in TrueSizer and save it out in JEF format. Then your machine will be happy. Of course those 2 commercial formats don't support colors in the design file, so you'll need to keep track of what color goes in each step, but it's a fairly small price to pay.

Another solution, not free but not break-the-bank expensive, is Buzz Xplore from Buzz Tools. It opens pretty much any format, and will save in JEF format. You can try it free for 3 weeks. Download here: http://www.buzztools.com/updates/bx2-trial.asp

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "sewing2171" <jwragg1@...> wrote:

Hi Jim,

Do you know what the small margin is exactly? I bought the 12000 because I wanted bigger hoops to do larger designs. I am struggling to design in Generations as it is telling me that the design is too large for the hoop. I have made a custom hoop for the 230x300 hoop and the design (have re-sized it many times) is not 200x280 I would have thought that this would fit into the hoop easily but Generations is not accepting of this. Any guidance you could give on the size of the embroidery field would be great. Thanks, Nita