Bobbin holders


Janet Gronski
 

Jim, I have written before about my yellow dot bobbin holder jumping out of position when I do an embroidery project on my 15000.  I change needles, it's threaded correctly, no burrs in the holder because I filed it down. I bought the vertical thread holder and organ needles rather than using the Schmitz needles.  I put in a new case. It only stitched 2340 stitches before jamming again.  I can't feel any rough spots in the hook race, but I'm taking it into the shop on Monday to have them check things out.
This sure is frustrating to say the least. 
I was wondering,  can you use the red dot bobbin case when doing embroidery ?Janet
]

_._,_._,_


Lyn Quine
 

I’ve had similar problems with a new case.  I had a needle strike on the original case that came with the machine, I filed it down and all was good, but I felt I needed a new one.  I upgraded my machine to a V3 quiltmaker when the upgrade came out and all was good with the original case, until I thought I ought to replace with a nice new one.  When the new case arrived I noticed there was a part number etched into the bottom of the case which isn’t in the original but everything else seemed the same, I purchased from ebay from dealer I have dealt with before.  I placed it in the machine and it jumped and turned and now has a large gouge in the side made by the spring by the red mark.  I ordered a new one from Janome UK, I was told there are two cases with different part numbers, one for the V3 quiltmaker and one for the original or upgraded machines.  That one was in the machine about half an hour and it started jumping about, so I removed it and put the old original case back in and all was and continues to be ok.   I am still using my original yellow case, I also own a 12000 which uses the yellow dot case, as there seems to be a problem with the cases for the 15000, I am considering buying a case for the 12000 and trying it in the 15.  That’s if it’s still available as neither machine are now supported because they are both retired.  When parts run out they will be difficult to maintain and repair.

 

I’ve heard other people say similar has happened to them.  I asked Janome UK about it and they say there isn’t a problem that they are aware of.

 

Yes you can use the red dot case but it is best to use either Janome bobbin thread or a 90 or 100 wt thread.  I’m not sure what weight the Janome thread is.  The tension on the red case is different and is the right tension for the Janome thread.  I have used Janome prewound bobbins, (don’t risk a non Janome prewound) and the stitch quality in the red bobbin case was very good.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Janet Gronski
Sent: 10 July 2022 13:47
To: onlinesewing-janome@groups.io
Subject: [onlinesewing-janome] Bobbin holders

 

Jim, I have written before about my yellow dot bobbin holder jumping out of position when I do an embroidery project on my 15000.  I change needles, it's threaded correctly, no burrs in the holder because I filed it down. I bought the vertical thread holder and organ needles rather than using the Schmitz needles.  I put in a new case. It only stitched 2340 stitches before jamming again.  I can't feel any rough spots in the hook race, but I'm taking it into the shop on Monday to have them check things out.

This sure is frustrating to say the least. 

I was wondering,  can you use the red dot bobbin case when doing embroidery ?Janet

]

 


Cynthia Dickerson
 

I only use a size 11 needle when embroidering.  I also have used my red dot bobbin holder without any trouble.  


On Jul 10, 2022, at 8:47 AM, Janet Gronski <jmgronski76@...> wrote:


Jim, I have written before about my yellow dot bobbin holder jumping out of position when I do an embroidery project on my 15000.  I change needles, it's threaded correctly, no burrs in the holder because I filed it down. I bought the vertical thread holder and organ needles rather than using the Schmitz needles.  I put in a new case. It only stitched 2340 stitches before jamming again.  I can't feel any rough spots in the hook race, but I'm taking it into the shop on Monday to have them check things out.
This sure is frustrating to say the least. 
I was wondering,  can you use the red dot bobbin case when doing embroidery ?Janet
]


Jim Stutsman
 

The yellow dot bobbin case is misunderstood by users and dealers alike. In the beginning of machine embroidery on Janome machines, there was but one bobbin case. It was calibrated to use with ordinary sewing thread, Janome embroidery thread (initially acrylic, later polyester), and Janome bobbin thread. This combination worked fine. However Janome bobbin thread was/is quite expensive and comes on fairly small spools. It didn't take long for people to discover that commercial bobbin thread was much cheaper, and available on large cones. But almost all commercial bobbin thread is finer than Janome bobbin thread. That means that the standard bobbin case will let it pull up, so that it shows on top. This switch to commercial bobbin thread led to a wave of customers complaining about bobbin thread showing on top of embroidery. Dealers would adjust the bobbin tension to correct that, but then ordinary sewing would suffer. Eventually Janome attacked the problem by including a second bobbin case with increased tension, just for embroidery. Other companies did that as well. This solved the bobbin show problem, but created a lot of misinformation about what would happen if the wrong case were used.

There is nothing wrong with using the standard red dot bobbin case for embroidery. It works fine, and with the Janome-brand rewound bobbins you usually will not get bobbin showing on top of embroidery. It will not damage your machine, void any remaining warranty, or cause your hair to fall out.

HOWEVER any time the needle penetrates the bobbin case you must be VERY careful. Smoothing it out may seem to fix the damage, but it has to be really smooth. Also damage to the hook race cannot always be felt, and requires very bright light and magnification to be seen. Keep in mind that every single stitch goes under the bobbin case, completely wrapping it. It takes very little in the way of a burr to catch that thread long enough to prevent it from pulling up. Instead it will pull up the bobbin case, sometimes spinning it past the stopper. That's when you get a broken needle, thread nest, etc. This can also happen if the stopper is not properly adjusted, as was a problem for a while with the 11000. Dealers, especially the "old school" mechanical machine types, never look at the hook race, bobbin case, or the white plastic disk the lies under the case. If any damage is not corrected, it will lead to more problems, more damage, and more repairs. Years ago, when we were dealers, I asked Janome for a tool to polish the hook race to remove burrs from needle strikes. It doesn't work in all cases - when chunks get taken out of the metal the hook race must be replace. But in 80% of the cases it will fix the damage and restore good operation. The part # for this tool is OILSTONE. Every dealer should have it, but not all do.


Lyn Quine
 

I understand what you're saying Jim, but my 2 NEW bobbin cases jump, but my old original one doesn’t.  If the race was damaged then i would have problems with all 3 cases the 2 new and my original case.  I only wanted to replace the old one because of a needle strike which i have smoothed out.  My original case is in the machine as I type doing a sterling job.  But my 2 new ones which cost me £30 each, one is damaged beyond just smoothing out and the other bounced and took the cover out with it.  


On 10 Jul 2022, at 16:53, Jim Stutsman via groups.io <onlinesewing@...> wrote:

The yellow dot bobbin case is misunderstood by users and dealers alike. In the beginning of machine embroidery on Janome machines, there was but one bobbin case. It was calibrated to use with ordinary sewing thread, Janome embroidery thread (initially acrylic, later polyester), and Janome bobbin thread. This combination worked fine. However Janome bobbin thread was/is quite expensive and comes on fairly small spools. It didn't take long for people to discover that commercial bobbin thread was much cheaper, and available on large cones. But almost all commercial bobbin thread is finer than Janome bobbin thread. That means that the standard bobbin case will let it pull up, so that it shows on top. This switch to commercial bobbin thread led to a wave of customers complaining about bobbin thread showing on top of embroidery. Dealers would adjust the bobbin tension to correct that, but then ordinary sewing would suffer. Eventually Janome attacked the problem by including a second bobbin case with increased tension, just for embroidery. Other companies did that as well. This solved the bobbin show problem, but created a lot of misinformation about what would happen if the wrong case were used.

There is nothing wrong with using the standard red dot bobbin case for embroidery. It works fine, and with the Janome-brand rewound bobbins you usually will not get bobbin showing on top of embroidery. It will not damage your machine, void any remaining warranty, or cause your hair to fall out.

HOWEVER any time the needle penetrates the bobbin case you must be VERY careful. Smoothing it out may seem to fix the damage, but it has to be really smooth. Also damage to the hook race cannot always be felt, and requires very bright light and magnification to be seen. Keep in mind that every single stitch goes under the bobbin case, completely wrapping it. It takes very little in the way of a burr to catch that thread long enough to prevent it from pulling up. Instead it will pull up the bobbin case, sometimes spinning it past the stopper. That's when you get a broken needle, thread nest, etc. This can also happen if the stopper is not properly adjusted, as was a problem for a while with the 11000. Dealers, especially the "old school" mechanical machine types, never look at the hook race, bobbin case, or the white plastic disk the lies under the case. If any damage is not corrected, it will lead to more problems, more damage, and more repairs. Years ago, when we were dealers, I asked Janome for a tool to polish the hook race to remove burrs from needle strikes. It doesn't work in all cases - when chunks get taken out of the metal the hook race must be replace. But in 80% of the cases it will fix the damage and restore good operation. The part # for this tool is OILSTONE. Every dealer should have it, but not all do.


Janet Gronski
 

Thank you all for your help and advice!! 
I do not use prewound bobbins because of the cost. I use the bobbin thread my dealer sells. I think I'll buy some and see what happens. 
I went to buy a new yellow dot holder yesterday and noticed there were 2 different ones. One in Janome packaging and one in a small zip lock bag. When I asked about the difference, I was told they were the same. However, the numbers were different. The ones I bought last time were 846652700. The manual says the part is 846652607. Could that be the problem? Can I order them directly from Janome? I especially want to have extra, if they are no longer going to support this machine. It's not even a year old. That's a scary thought.
(The dealer does have an oilstone. He used it on the other machine.)
 Thank you again for all your help and advice!


On Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 9:53 AM Jim Stutsman via groups.io <onlinesewing=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
The yellow dot bobbin case is misunderstood by users and dealers alike. In the beginning of machine embroidery on Janome machines, there was but one bobbin case. It was calibrated to use with ordinary sewing thread, Janome embroidery thread (initially acrylic, later polyester), and Janome bobbin thread. This combination worked fine. However Janome bobbin thread was/is quite expensive and comes on fairly small spools. It didn't take long for people to discover that commercial bobbin thread was much cheaper, and available on large cones. But almost all commercial bobbin thread is finer than Janome bobbin thread. That means that the standard bobbin case will let it pull up, so that it shows on top. This switch to commercial bobbin thread led to a wave of customers complaining about bobbin thread showing on top of embroidery. Dealers would adjust the bobbin tension to correct that, but then ordinary sewing would suffer. Eventually Janome attacked the problem by including a second bobbin case with increased tension, just for embroidery. Other companies did that as well. This solved the bobbin show problem, but created a lot of misinformation about what would happen if the wrong case were used.

There is nothing wrong with using the standard red dot bobbin case for embroidery. It works fine, and with the Janome-brand rewound bobbins you usually will not get bobbin showing on top of embroidery. It will not damage your machine, void any remaining warranty, or cause your hair to fall out.

HOWEVER any time the needle penetrates the bobbin case you must be VERY careful. Smoothing it out may seem to fix the damage, but it has to be really smooth. Also damage to the hook race cannot always be felt, and requires very bright light and magnification to be seen. Keep in mind that every single stitch goes under the bobbin case, completely wrapping it. It takes very little in the way of a burr to catch that thread long enough to prevent it from pulling up. Instead it will pull up the bobbin case, sometimes spinning it past the stopper. That's when you get a broken needle, thread nest, etc. This can also happen if the stopper is not properly adjusted, as was a problem for a while with the 11000. Dealers, especially the "old school" mechanical machine types, never look at the hook race, bobbin case, or the white plastic disk the lies under the case. If any damage is not corrected, it will lead to more problems, more damage, and more repairs. Years ago, when we were dealers, I asked Janome for a tool to polish the hook race to remove burrs from needle strikes. It doesn't work in all cases - when chunks get taken out of the metal the hook race must be replace. But in 80% of the cases it will fix the damage and restore good operation. The part # for this tool is OILSTONE. Every dealer should have it, but not all do.


Virginia
 

Actually Lyn the cases for the 12,000 and the 15000 and QCP3 are all in the same.  I know what you mean about a few problems, I had to replace my whold bobbin (whatever they call it) that holds the bobbin case in my 9400 but that was under warranty.  I now have to use a yellow dot case for all sewing in it.  My 15,000 QCP uses the original cases that came with it.

Virginia


-----Original Message-----
From: Lyn Quine <lynquine@...>
To: onlinesewing-janome@groups.io <onlinesewing-janome@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Jul 10, 2022 9:37 am
Subject: Re: [onlinesewing-janome] Bobbin holders

I’ve had similar problems with a new case.  I had a needle strike on the original case that came with the machine, I filed it down and all was good, but I felt I needed a new one.  I upgraded my machine to a V3 quiltmaker when the upgrade came out and all was good with the original case, until I thought I ought to replace with a nice new one.  When the new case arrived I noticed there was a part number etched into the bottom of the case which isn’t in the original but everything else seemed the same, I purchased from ebay from dealer I have dealt with before.  I placed it in the machine and it jumped and turned and now has a large gouge in the side made by the spring by the red mark.  I ordered a new one from Janome UK, I was told there are two cases with different part numbers, one for the V3 quiltmaker and one for the original or upgraded machines.  That one was in the machine about half an hour and it started jumping about, so I removed it and put the old original case back in and all was and continues to be ok.   I am still using my original yellow case, I also own a 12000 which uses the yellow dot case, as there seems to be a problem with the cases for the 15000, I am considering buying a case for the 12000 and trying it in the 15.  That’s if it’s still available as neither machine are now supported because they are both retired.  When parts run out they will be difficult to maintain and repair.
 
I’ve heard other people say similar has happened to them.  I asked Janome UK about it and they say there isn’t a problem that they are aware of.
 
Yes you can use the red dot case but it is best to use either Janome bobbin thread or a 90 or 100 wt thread.  I’m not sure what weight the Janome thread is.  The tension on the red case is different and is the right tension for the Janome thread.  I have used Janome prewound bobbins, (don’t risk a non Janome prewound) and the stitch quality in the red bobbin case was very good.
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 
From: Janet Gronski
Sent: 10 July 2022 13:47
To: onlinesewing-janome@groups.io
Subject: [onlinesewing-janome] Bobbin holders
 
Jim, I have written before about my yellow dot bobbin holder jumping out of position when I do an embroidery project on my 15000.  I change needles, it's threaded correctly, no burrs in the holder because I filed it down. I bought the vertical thread holder and organ needles rather than using the Schmitz needles.  I put in a new case. It only stitched 2340 stitches before jamming again.  I can't feel any rough spots in the hook race, but I'm taking it into the shop on Monday to have them check things out.
This sure is frustrating to say the least. 
I was wondering,  can you use the red dot bobbin case when doing embroidery ?Janet
]
 


Fiona Williams
 

That is so weird during covid I took a couple of Janome courses. I ordered a new yellow do and red dot bobbin case/holder and both of my were in plastic bags rather than official Janome packaging. I tried the yellow dot and it jammed and jumped and I had a terrible time. I went back to my old one and everything was fine. I returned them to the store. Now I will not purchase anything that is not in a factory sealed box. Somehow I was sent a blue dot case as well and I don’t even think it is for the 15000.

Fiona


On Jul 10, 2022, at 4:48 PM, Virginia via groups.io <Fmjfrazier@...> wrote:


Actually Lyn the cases for the 12,000 and the 15000 and QCP3 are all in the same.  I know what you mean about a few problems, I had to replace my whold bobbin (whatever they call it) that holds the bobbin case in my 9400 but that was under warranty.  I now have to use a yellow dot case for all sewing in it.  My 15,000 QCP uses the original cases that came with it.

Virginia


-----Original Message-----
From: Lyn Quine <lynquine@...>
To: onlinesewing-janome@groups.io <onlinesewing-janome@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Jul 10, 2022 9:37 am
Subject: Re: [onlinesewing-janome] Bobbin holders

I’ve had similar problems with a new case.  I had a needle strike on the original case that came with the machine, I filed it down and all was good, but I felt I needed a new one.  I upgraded my machine to a V3 quiltmaker when the upgrade came out and all was good with the original case, until I thought I ought to replace with a nice new one.  When the new case arrived I noticed there was a part number etched into the bottom of the case which isn’t in the original but everything else seemed the same, I purchased from ebay from dealer I have dealt with before.  I placed it in the machine and it jumped and turned and now has a large gouge in the side made by the spring by the red mark.  I ordered a new one from Janome UK, I was told there are two cases with different part numbers, one for the V3 quiltmaker and one for the original or upgraded machines.  That one was in the machine about half an hour and it started jumping about, so I removed it and put the old original case back in and all was and continues to be ok.   I am still using my original yellow case, I also own a 12000 which uses the yellow dot case, as there seems to be a problem with the cases for the 15000, I am considering buying a case for the 12000 and trying it in the 15.  That’s if it’s still available as neither machine are now supported because they are both retired.  When parts run out they will be difficult to maintain and repair.
 
I’ve heard other people say similar has happened to them.  I asked Janome UK about it and they say there isn’t a problem that they are aware of.
 
Yes you can use the red dot case but it is best to use either Janome bobbin thread or a 90 or 100 wt thread.  I’m not sure what weight the Janome thread is.  The tension on the red case is different and is the right tension for the Janome thread.  I have used Janome prewound bobbins, (don’t risk a non Janome prewound) and the stitch quality in the red bobbin case was very good.
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 
From: Janet Gronski
Sent: 10 July 2022 13:47
To: onlinesewing-janome@groups.io
Subject: [onlinesewing-janome] Bobbin holders
 
Jim, I have written before about my yellow dot bobbin holder jumping out of position when I do an embroidery project on my 15000.  I change needles, it's threaded correctly, no burrs in the holder because I filed it down. I bought the vertical thread holder and organ needles rather than using the Schmitz needles.  I put in a new case. It only stitched 2340 stitches before jamming again.  I can't feel any rough spots in the hook race, but I'm taking it into the shop on Monday to have them check things out.
This sure is frustrating to say the least. 
I was wondering,  can you use the red dot bobbin case when doing embroidery ?Janet
]
 


Lyn Quine
 

I had one in a polythene bag from Janome which did the bounce thing, and I’m not sure, cant remember if the one from the dealer came in the blister pack or a bag.  They both did the bounce.  Still using my old original one.


On 11 Jul 2022, at 11:58, Fiona Williams via groups.io <f.taylorwilliams@...> wrote:

 That is so weird during covid I took a couple of Janome courses. I ordered a new yellow do and red dot bobbin case/holder and both of my were in plastic bags rather than official Janome packaging. I tried the yellow dot and it jammed and jumped and I had a terrible time. I went back to my old one and everything was fine. I returned them to the store. Now I will not purchase anything that is not in a factory sealed box. Somehow I was sent a blue dot case as well and I don’t even think it is for the 15000.

Fiona


On Jul 10, 2022, at 4:48 PM, Virginia via groups.io <Fmjfrazier@...> wrote:


Actually Lyn the cases for the 12,000 and the 15000 and QCP3 are all in the same.  I know what you mean about a few problems, I had to replace my whold bobbin (whatever they call it) that holds the bobbin case in my 9400 but that was under warranty.  I now have to use a yellow dot case for all sewing in it.  My 15,000 QCP uses the original cases that came with it.

Virginia


-----Original Message-----
From: Lyn Quine <lynquine@...>
To: onlinesewing-janome@groups.io <onlinesewing-janome@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Jul 10, 2022 9:37 am
Subject: Re: [onlinesewing-janome] Bobbin holders

I’ve had similar problems with a new case.  I had a needle strike on the original case that came with the machine, I filed it down and all was good, but I felt I needed a new one.  I upgraded my machine to a V3 quiltmaker when the upgrade came out and all was good with the original case, until I thought I ought to replace with a nice new one.  When the new case arrived I noticed there was a part number etched into the bottom of the case which isn’t in the original but everything else seemed the same, I purchased from ebay from dealer I have dealt with before.  I placed it in the machine and it jumped and turned and now has a large gouge in the side made by the spring by the red mark.  I ordered a new one from Janome UK, I was told there are two cases with different part numbers, one for the V3 quiltmaker and one for the original or upgraded machines.  That one was in the machine about half an hour and it started jumping about, so I removed it and put the old original case back in and all was and continues to be ok.   I am still using my original yellow case, I also own a 12000 which uses the yellow dot case, as there seems to be a problem with the cases for the 15000, I am considering buying a case for the 12000 and trying it in the 15.  That’s if it’s still available as neither machine are now supported because they are both retired.  When parts run out they will be difficult to maintain and repair.
 
I’ve heard other people say similar has happened to them.  I asked Janome UK about it and they say there isn’t a problem that they are aware of.
 
Yes you can use the red dot case but it is best to use either Janome bobbin thread or a 90 or 100 wt thread.  I’m not sure what weight the Janome thread is.  The tension on the red case is different and is the right tension for the Janome thread.  I have used Janome prewound bobbins, (don’t risk a non Janome prewound) and the stitch quality in the red bobbin case was very good.
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 
From: Janet Gronski
Sent: 10 July 2022 13:47
To: onlinesewing-janome@groups.io
Subject: [onlinesewing-janome] Bobbin holders
 
Jim, I have written before about my yellow dot bobbin holder jumping out of position when I do an embroidery project on my 15000.  I change needles, it's threaded correctly, no burrs in the holder because I filed it down. I bought the vertical thread holder and organ needles rather than using the Schmitz needles.  I put in a new case. It only stitched 2340 stitches before jamming again.  I can't feel any rough spots in the hook race, but I'm taking it into the shop on Monday to have them check things out.
This sure is frustrating to say the least. 
I was wondering,  can you use the red dot bobbin case when doing embroidery ?Janet
]
 


Wendy Petit
 

Hi Janet - I was having the same problem.  After going through several bobbin cases (yellow dot) for embroidery - I solved the problem by making sure I took a few straight stitches and that the bobbin thread was pulled up before beginning any embroidery.  Solved my problem!  Hope this helps.  


Wendy Petit
Medical Transcriptionist


Privileged and Confidential: The information in this e-mail message may contain confidential health information that is privileged and legally protected from disclosure by federal law, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA).  This information is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. 



On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 07:47:57 AM CDT, Janet Gronski <jmgronski76@...> wrote:


Jim, I have written before about my yellow dot bobbin holder jumping out of position when I do an embroidery project on my 15000.  I change needles, it's threaded correctly, no burrs in the holder because I filed it down. I bought the vertical thread holder and organ needles rather than using the Schmitz needles.  I put in a new case. It only stitched 2340 stitches before jamming again.  I can't feel any rough spots in the hook race, but I'm taking it into the shop on Monday to have them check things out.
This sure is frustrating to say the least. 
I was wondering,  can you use the red dot bobbin case when doing embroidery ?Janet
]


favymtz
 

I've been watching this conversation about the yellow bobbin holder problems.
I have another theory about why some have issues.
(The first & most obvious is that the bobbin holder hasn't been inserted properly and therefore it will pull up & jam.)
But another thing that I think could be an issue is the thread being used in the bobbin.
If it's a little bit rough/textured thread like some bobbin thread brands tend to be, and because the tension is very tight on that thread coming through the tension in the holder I think that it can be causing the jams.
So, I would suggest that people who have those problematic bobbin holders start looking at that thread you're using & determine if that is a problem. If it is, use the red case for that bobbin thread. (That's why Janome recommends using the red case for Janome bobbin thread, it's a rougher thread.) 
In addition you might want to consider loosen the upper tension as well so that you get the proper tension on the embroidery project.
Re: bobbin holders that aren't in blister packages, our local shop always sells them in plastic baggies, I've never seen one in a blister pack!
Favymtz

On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 6:56 AM Wendy Petit via groups.io <wendypetit=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Janet - I was having the same problem.  After going through several bobbin cases (yellow dot) for embroidery - I solved the problem by making sure I took a few straight stitches and that the bobbin thread was pulled up before beginning any embroidery.  Solved my problem!  Hope this helps.  


Wendy Petit
Medical Transcriptionist


Privileged and Confidential: The information in this e-mail message may contain confidential health information that is privileged and legally protected from disclosure by federal law, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA).  This information is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. 



On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 07:47:57 AM CDT, Janet Gronski <jmgronski76@...> wrote:


Jim, I have written before about my yellow dot bobbin holder jumping out of position when I do an embroidery project on my 15000.  I change needles, it's threaded correctly, no burrs in the holder because I filed it down. I bought the vertical thread holder and organ needles rather than using the Schmitz needles.  I put in a new case. It only stitched 2340 stitches before jamming again.  I can't feel any rough spots in the hook race, but I'm taking it into the shop on Monday to have them check things out.
This sure is frustrating to say the least. 
I was wondering,  can you use the red dot bobbin case when doing embroidery ?Janet
]


--
Favymtz


Jim Stutsman
 

We've been out of the business for almost a dozen years, but I do have an idea what may be happening. Janome does change part numbers from time to time, for what is essentially the same part. I'm not going to speculate on why, but it does happen. Dealers can order parts that are blister-packed for hanging on a rack, and they can also buy parts that are just loose. Those can be packaged in zip-lock bags and sold that way. That's all fine. BUT there are sellers of Janome-compatible parts that look exactly like the original, but may not be identical. For example, at a time when bobbins were in short supply we bought some from a non-Janome supplier. They looked the same, cost about half what the Janome bobbins did, but did not act the same at all and created all kinds of trouble. The molds used to make them had small flaws that caused most of the bobbins to have little "tails" of plastic on the edge. Those would catch thread and cause all manner of problems. We had to inspect and file every single bobbin in order to make them usable. Lesson learned, we never bought them again.

I'm not saying that all 3rd-party parts are suspect, only that you cannot tell if a part is genuine, an inferior substitute, or outright counterfeit. With regard to bobbin cases, the size is critically important. If it's even a fraction of a millimeter too big, it may impede the thread passage and cause jumping. The material is also important. If the case composition is not correct, it may heat up during operation from the friction of the spinning hook race. That, in turn, can cause it to enlarge, again leading to hopping.

The truth is that there is no practical way for you to determine whether a case is genuine, though if it's in a blister pack it probably is genuine Janome. Counterfeiters can also duplicate the packaging, but that requires more effort and cost, so it's not as common. Your best option is to buy only from a local dealer if possible, and promptly return anything that does not perform as expected. The sad truth about online shopping is that you have no way to verify you are getting genuine products, and Amazon has a big problem keeping counterfeit goods out. We've arrived at a point where almost everything is made in Asia, prominently in China. When a company is negotiating to have something made, the question of "How much will it cost?" is not relevant. The supplying manufacturer will ask "How much do you want to pay?" They will then make the product to a quality standard that matches this price. The result is that we have products that have a shockingly short lifespan, and growing mountains of rubbish as the shoddy goods are discarded.


Jim Stutsman
 

I addressed the part number issues in a previous reply. With regard to ordering directly from Janome, that's not an option. They only sell to approved dealers.


Lyn Quine
 

I have been using the same thread for a very long time it’s an 80/2 from Marathon threads.  I used to use their 60/2 but found the 80 is a better stitch.  I can understand what both Fiona and Jim are saying.  My old original bobbin case doesn’t jump and spin the way the 2 new ones do which makes me think it’s as Jim has said it’s in the manufacture, maybe a different company is producing them now.  But Janome won’t acknowledge that there is a difference.  But there must be, the one I’ve been using since I bought machine works fine, the new ones bought in the last year don’t.  I thought the first one bought online from a dealer I have bought from before on eBay, may have been a generic which was why I phoned Janome UK parts and spoke to them and bought direct and still it jumps, and still Janome won’t acknowledge there’s a problem I just met a brick wall!


On 11 Jul 2022, at 14:10, favymtz <favymtz@...> wrote:


I've been watching this conversation about the yellow bobbin holder problems.
I have another theory about why some have issues.
(The first & most obvious is that the bobbin holder hasn't been inserted properly and therefore it will pull up & jam.)
But another thing that I think could be an issue is the thread being used in the bobbin.
If it's a little bit rough/textured thread like some bobbin thread brands tend to be, and because the tension is very tight on that thread coming through the tension in the holder I think that it can be causing the jams.
So, I would suggest that people who have those problematic bobbin holders start looking at that thread you're using & determine if that is a problem. If it is, use the red case for that bobbin thread. (That's why Janome recommends using the red case for Janome bobbin thread, it's a rougher thread.) 
In addition you might want to consider loosen the upper tension as well so that you get the proper tension on the embroidery project.
Re: bobbin holders that aren't in blister packages, our local shop always sells them in plastic baggies, I've never seen one in a blister pack!
Favymtz

On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 6:56 AM Wendy Petit via groups.io <wendypetit=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Janet - I was having the same problem.  After going through several bobbin cases (yellow dot) for embroidery - I solved the problem by making sure I took a few straight stitches and that the bobbin thread was pulled up before beginning any embroidery.  Solved my problem!  Hope this helps.  


Wendy Petit
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On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 07:47:57 AM CDT, Janet Gronski <jmgronski76@...> wrote:


Jim, I have written before about my yellow dot bobbin holder jumping out of position when I do an embroidery project on my 15000.  I change needles, it's threaded correctly, no burrs in the holder because I filed it down. I bought the vertical thread holder and organ needles rather than using the Schmitz needles.  I put in a new case. It only stitched 2340 stitches before jamming again.  I can't feel any rough spots in the hook race, but I'm taking it into the shop on Monday to have them check things out.
This sure is frustrating to say the least. 
I was wondering,  can you use the red dot bobbin case when doing embroidery ?Janet
]


--
Favymtz


Janet Gronski
 

I went and bought Janome bobbin thread, a new yellow dot bobbin case and blue tip needles. The bobbin thread was showing on the top, so I switched to the red dot bobbin holder and all was fine. My dealer does not sell Janome bobbin thread on the spool. Is it available somewhere? The prewound bobbins were pretty pricy.

 Guess I'll try this for awhile and see what happens.  Thank you again everyone for your help.

PS. I'm sure I'm putting the bobbin holder in the machine correctly.  I don't think that's been the issue. I've only bought and used thread in my machine that I've purchased from the dealer.  


On Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 9:53 AM Jim Stutsman via groups.io <onlinesewing=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
The yellow dot bobbin case is misunderstood by users and dealers alike. In the beginning of machine embroidery on Janome machines, there was but one bobbin case. It was calibrated to use with ordinary sewing thread, Janome embroidery thread (initially acrylic, later polyester), and Janome bobbin thread. This combination worked fine. However Janome bobbin thread was/is quite expensive and comes on fairly small spools. It didn't take long for people to discover that commercial bobbin thread was much cheaper, and available on large cones. But almost all commercial bobbin thread is finer than Janome bobbin thread. That means that the standard bobbin case will let it pull up, so that it shows on top. This switch to commercial bobbin thread led to a wave of customers complaining about bobbin thread showing on top of embroidery. Dealers would adjust the bobbin tension to correct that, but then ordinary sewing would suffer. Eventually Janome attacked the problem by including a second bobbin case with increased tension, just for embroidery. Other companies did that as well. This solved the bobbin show problem, but created a lot of misinformation about what would happen if the wrong case were used.

There is nothing wrong with using the standard red dot bobbin case for embroidery. It works fine, and with the Janome-brand rewound bobbins you usually will not get bobbin showing on top of embroidery. It will not damage your machine, void any remaining warranty, or cause your hair to fall out.

HOWEVER any time the needle penetrates the bobbin case you must be VERY careful. Smoothing it out may seem to fix the damage, but it has to be really smooth. Also damage to the hook race cannot always be felt, and requires very bright light and magnification to be seen. Keep in mind that every single stitch goes under the bobbin case, completely wrapping it. It takes very little in the way of a burr to catch that thread long enough to prevent it from pulling up. Instead it will pull up the bobbin case, sometimes spinning it past the stopper. That's when you get a broken needle, thread nest, etc. This can also happen if the stopper is not properly adjusted, as was a problem for a while with the 11000. Dealers, especially the "old school" mechanical machine types, never look at the hook race, bobbin case, or the white plastic disk the lies under the case. If any damage is not corrected, it will lead to more problems, more damage, and more repairs. Years ago, when we were dealers, I asked Janome for a tool to polish the hook race to remove burrs from needle strikes. It doesn't work in all cases - when chunks get taken out of the metal the hook race must be replace. But in 80% of the cases it will fix the damage and restore good operation. The part # for this tool is OILSTONE. Every dealer should have it, but not all do.


Anja Tennant
 

Just an answer to the bobbin holders in a blister pack .....i live in Australia and have bought them that way here so it just depends
where you live how things are packaged
.Anuska


Cheryl Paul
 

Have you had the dealer check your machine? I would ask the dealer to show you how to insert the bobbin case and let you do this in the store as well - a double check on how you are inserting the bobbin case might be helpful. I know that taking it out is really easy, but I don’t think replacing it is at all easy. I know that I don’t find it easy and I’ve had a Janome machine for over 35 years. All my Janome’s from the beginning and I’ve had more than 10 machines over the years and 4 are in my sewing room - each of them have the same method of inserting the bobbin case even though some of them have a different one than the CM7 & CM17, which are the newest models - my 15000 and down to the 11000 all had the same type. I find that none of them want to just drop in without a bit of fiddling. I’ve lately taken up to inserting it in the machine carefully making sure it is down and then while the needle plate is still “off” the machine turning the hand wheel to be sure that it is seated where it should be. It can be deceiving sometimes where it actually nests down after inserting.

I know that some have bought new bobbin cases and that they aren’t preforming as would be expected, but it could just be that a “faulty” batch came out of the factory or that the one purchased wasn’t a genuine Janome bobbin case but a “rip-off” and therefore not meeting the Janome standards. One sometimes doesn’t know exactly where an item really came from when ordering online, but it is convenient and we a trusting people.

Cheryl - Saskatoon