Bobbin Case Jumping


Connie
 

As of today the bobbin case in my 1500 is very active while embroidering. Everything underneath is clean but when I go to remove a bobbin, the case is so loose it is almost falling out.  A long time ago I remember a discussion about a bobbin stopper inside the machine.  Just curious if this might have failed.

Regards


Jim Stutsman
 

Most of the time when the bobbin case starts "jumping" it's because there is damage to the case itself and/or the hook race. Usually this happens as the result of something like a thread nest or a broken needle. As the thread slips under the bobbin case to make a stitch it catches on burrs on the case or the hook race that the case sits in. This causes the thread to catch. Instead of the thread sliding freely, the stitch is held until the thread can pull free from the damaged area. This causes it to pull the bobbin case up. If the damage is not repaired, this will eventually cause the case to pull up past the stopper, which is a small metal spring that the case rests against at about the 5 o'clock position. Once it spins out it usually gets penetrated by the needle and more damage occurs.

Remove the bobbin case and inspect it carefully, top, bottom, and edges. Any roughness will catch the thread. While it's out take a look at the thin metal shelf that it sits on. Use bright light and magnification if you can. Look for pits, notches, scratches, or any sign of damage from a needle strike. I'm attaching a photo of hook race damage, as well one with an arrow pointing to the legendary stopper. If yours looks different from this in any way you need to have the machine serviced.


Connie
 

Jim,
Thank you for the photos.  I have checked my bobbin case for rough areas and can't find anything unusual.  The stopper looks normal as well.  I've not had any trouble with nesting or needles  breaking but I do remember one odd thing last month while doing regular sewing.  
In the middle of a project, the bobbin thread wasn't picking up and I had to keep cleaning the bobbin case out/ reseating everything.  After 3 times of doing this I replaced the Schemetz needle I was using with an Organ needle and everything worked smoothly from then on.
Sounds like this might have been the beginning of the problem.  
I have stopped all sewing and will take it in for service.  

Sad part is my dealer/service tech is retiring and closing the store at the end of December.  He is super swamped with repairs and service right now.  This means no Christmas sewing for me.... 


Pixey
 

Connie,

Others on this group and another I am on have seen machine sensitivity to different needle brands. I have had some Janome machines that work fine with different brands of needles (including Schmetz ) and others that just get persnickety if I use any needles other than Organ needles (which is the same as Janome branded ones).  Having some knowledge of Japanese manufacturing processes.  I suspect some machines are just built to slightly tighter tolerances.  No one has reported damage to their machine, but more an issue of skipped stitches, uneven tension, etc.

I also sometimes see increased bobbin jumping if I am sewing at faster speeds and the bobbin is getting low.  That is just because it is having to spin faster and faster the lower it gets and sometimes they haven’t wound as smoothly closer to the spindle.

Pixey


On Nov 14, 2019, at 2:08 PM, Connie <sewpicky1@...> wrote:

Jim,
Thank you for the photos.  I have checked my bobbin case for rough areas and can't find anything unusual.  The stopper looks normal as well.  I've not had any trouble with nesting or needles  breaking but I do remember one odd thing last month while doing regular sewing.  
In the middle of a project, the bobbin thread wasn't picking up and I had to keep cleaning the bobbin case out/ reseating everything.  After 3 times of doing this I replaced the Schemetz needle I was using with an Organ needle and everything worked smoothly from then on.
Sounds like this might have been the beginning of the problem.  
I have stopped all sewing and will take it in for service.  

Sad part is my dealer/service tech is retiring and closing the store at the end of December.  He is super swamped with repairs and service right now.  This means no Christmas sewing for me.... 


Suzanne Martin
 

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:58 AM, Pixey wrote:
I am also having this problem with my 15000:     "I also sometimes see increased bobbin jumping if I am sewing at faster speeds and the bobbin is getting low.  That is just because it is having to spin faster and faster the lower it gets and sometimes they haven’t wound as smoothly closer to the spindle."


Connie
 

Pixey,
I have noticed my machine is sensitive to the needle brand!  She definitely likes Organ (Janome) needles over Schmetz.  I dropped her off yesterday for service and I feel confident this will be an easy adjustment.   
Thanks for reply.
Connie S.

On November 15, 2019 at 10:27 AM "Pixey via Groups.Io" <pixeyam@...> wrote:

Connie,

Others on this group and another I am on have seen machine sensitivity to different needle brands. I have had some Janome machines that work fine with different brands of needles (including Schmetz ) and others that just get persnickety if I use any needles other than Organ needles (which is the same as Janome branded ones).  Having some knowledge of Japanese manufacturing processes.  I suspect some machines are just built to slightly tighter tolerances.  No one has reported damage to their machine, but more an issue of skipped stitches, uneven tension, etc.

I also sometimes see increased bobbin jumping if I am sewing at faster speeds and the bobbin is getting low.  That is just because it is having to spin faster and faster the lower it gets and sometimes they haven’t wound as smoothly closer to the spindle.

Pixey

 

On Nov 14, 2019, at 2:08 PM, Connie < sewpicky1@...> wrote:

Jim,
Thank you for the photos.  I have checked my bobbin case for rough areas and can't find anything unusual.  The stopper looks normal as well.  I've not had any trouble with nesting or needles  breaking but I do remember one odd thing last month while doing regular sewing.  
In the middle of a project, the bobbin thread wasn't picking up and I had to keep cleaning the bobbin case out/ reseating everything.  After 3 times of doing this I replaced the Schemetz needle I was using with an Organ needle and everything worked smoothly from then on.
Sounds like this might have been the beginning of the problem.  
I have stopped all sewing and will take it in for service.  

Sad part is my dealer/service tech is retiring and closing the store at the end of December.  He is super swamped with repairs and service right now.  This means no Christmas sewing for me.... 

 


Patricia Ward
 

Connie,I never use Schmetz in my Janome machine for I read in several different places that the Schmetz needles are a tad longer and the Janome machine does not like that.  I am sure that Jim, our guru, could explain what it is that I am referring to..   I save my Schmetz needles  ( oh dear dare I say it?) for my Bernina machine ..... which I rarely use anymore.  

My Janome's really like Organ/Janome needles.  

Pat in MD

On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 10:08 AM Connie <sewpicky1@...> wrote:
Pixey,
I have noticed my machine is sensitive to the needle brand!  She definitely likes Organ (Janome) needles over Schmetz.  I dropped her off yesterday for service and I feel confident this will be an easy adjustment.   
Thanks for reply.
Connie S.
On November 15, 2019 at 10:27 AM "Pixey via Groups.Io" <pixeyam=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Connie,

Others on this group and another I am on have seen machine sensitivity to different needle brands. I have had some Janome machines that work fine with different brands of needles (including Schmetz ) and others that just get persnickety if I use any needles other than Organ needles (which is the same as Janome branded ones).  Having some knowledge of Japanese manufacturing processes.  I suspect some machines are just built to slightly tighter tolerances.  No one has reported damage to their machine, but more an issue of skipped stitches, uneven tension, etc.

I also sometimes see increased bobbin jumping if I am sewing at faster speeds and the bobbin is getting low.  That is just because it is having to spin faster and faster the lower it gets and sometimes they haven’t wound as smoothly closer to the spindle.

Pixey

 

On Nov 14, 2019, at 2:08 PM, Connie < sewpicky1@...> wrote:

Jim,
Thank you for the photos.  I have checked my bobbin case for rough areas and can't find anything unusual.  The stopper looks normal as well.  I've not had any trouble with nesting or needles  breaking but I do remember one odd thing last month while doing regular sewing.  
In the middle of a project, the bobbin thread wasn't picking up and I had to keep cleaning the bobbin case out/ reseating everything.  After 3 times of doing this I replaced the Schemetz needle I was using with an Organ needle and everything worked smoothly from then on.
Sounds like this might have been the beginning of the problem.  
I have stopped all sewing and will take it in for service.  

Sad part is my dealer/service tech is retiring and closing the store at the end of December.  He is super swamped with repairs and service right now.  This means no Christmas sewing for me.... 

 


Jim Stutsman
 

I don't think the issue with Schmetz needles is due to length differences. It's more likely due to a difference in the position of the eye and the scarf (dished out place behind the needle). Stitches form as the needle is rising, which causes a loop to push out behind the needle. The hook passes through the scarf of the needle, almost touching it, and grabs that loop. There are mechanical adjustments to optimize this process. The tip of the hook must arrive when the scarf is at its midpoint relative to the hook. There needs to be just enough clearance between the hook and the needle, within the scarf, to prevent contact. Janome uses Organ to manufacture their needles, and almost certainly to calibrate machines before shipping. They tend to adjust things with exceptionally tight tolerances, so minor variations in needle construction could lead to issues with one brand over another. That said, it's also true that a lot of Janome machines (ours included) do just fine with Schmetz needles. I think this could come down to individual workers in assembling the machines having different techniques. Ideally if an adjustment has a range of A to B, you would want to set things to be right in the middle of the range. But if you stop adjusting at the first point within the range, there is less tolerance. With time and use, parts of the machine may change slightly, and then fall outside the range. I think that's why we see things like sensors that suddenly start issuing warnings. If the sensor was set at the very limit of the range, it doesn't take much use to cause it to drift slightly outside. The same could be true for needles. If the machine is set to a point that works for an Organ needle, it's done, ready to ship. This may not be exactly right for a Schmetz needle.

The settings involved in the stitch process are not normally checked by service technicians. If a machine is sewing correctly, they don't go looking for things to adjust (and charge you for). Service training tells them to start every service with a new Janome/Organ needle, size 14. This, in spite of the fact that more sewing is probably done with 11 or 12 needles than 14. This leads to the inevitable needle threader problems, as well as other woes.

Which needles you use is determined mostly by what's available to you. There may be variations in the lifetime of one brand over another, particularly if they involve titanium or chrome plating, but if the world's best needle is not available where you live, it doesn't matter. If you have a brand that is working for you, and you like it, no need to change. If the brand you would like to use isn't working, ask your technician to adjust your machine using that brand, preferably a size 11 or 12 with regard to the threader. He may be reluctant to do this, though less likely if the technician is a she. A plate of brownies might help tilt the scales in your direction.

And never use those Singer needles you find in the grocery or big box "Sewing Center"! They are optimized for profit to the seller.


Lyn Quine
 

I have the Quiltmaker 15000 upgraded from the 2.11 version, 12000, 350e and a 6600P, I use Schmetz Microtex needles with all of them, have no issues.  I was using a Janome blue tip needle on my 15000 for embroidery, had problems with tension, changed to a schmetz Microtex no problems.  I currently have a schmetz topstitch on it at the moment and no problems with threading or tension.  I’ve not used the Janome needles very often, usually use the Microtex for sewing and embroidery or the topstitch.  I’ve had my machine for around 5 years, and touch wood not had many problems with anything, unless of course I’ve done something silly, which does happen.


Pixey
 

In a prior career as an aerospace engineer a couple of decades ago, I sat in on a training program where the instructors were trying to teach gear grinders the reason that vehicle transmissions manufactured in Japan were proving more reliable than those manufactured in the US American autoworker plants.  I learned that part of the manufacturing practices that emerged in Japan out of the post WWII Deming Quality Improvement program was that manufacturers were taught to try and get as close as possible to a target design specification rather than just get it within the design tolerance. Overall, this makes for a tighter, more precise mechanical device.

Pixey




DeeDee Bedard
 

Usually if bobbin is jumping it is because of a rough spot on the case that is catching the thread  Take it out and run your finger around it and feel for rough spots.


Lyn Quine
 

I have found that bobbins jump around more if I have used a non branded bobbin that fits Brother, Janome and Singer.  Once I bought Janome bobbins I found they fit better, the other bobbins are a different size, hardly notice it, need a micrometer to measure it but it’s enough to cause bounce.


Cindy
 

This has been my experience also.  Especially when embroidering

Cindy Swenson


On Tuesday, November 19, 2019, 06:15:43 PM CST, Lyn Quine <lynquine@...> wrote:


I have found that bobbins jump around more if I have used a non branded bobbin that fits Brother, Janome and Singer.  Once I bought Janome bobbins I found they fit better, the other bobbins are a different size, hardly notice it, need a micrometer to measure it but it’s enough to cause bounce.


Cynthia Dickerson
 
Edited

Thank you for this information!  I find this very interesting!!  I was having problem embroidering and could hear the bobbin take a jump from time to time.  I had it a place where I usually do not sew.  My machine was not level, which I fixed and it did not like the thread that I was using.  It had a tiny bit of metallic in it.  After leveling the machine and changing the thread it sewed just fine.  Bobbin no longer jumping.    Just in case you are unaware, there are leveling feet on the underside of the embroiderly attachment.  This makes a big difference on how it sews.


Cheryl Alm
 

That is great information this topic comes up frequently and this is such an easy thing to fix. 


On Oct 11, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Cynthia Dickerson <cindydickerson@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

Thank you for this information!  I find this very interesting!!  I was having problem embroidering and could hear the bobbin take a jump from time to time.  I had it a place where I usually do not sew.  My machine was not level, which I fixed and it did not like the thread that I was using.  It had a tiny bit of metallic in it.  After leveling the machine and changing the thread it sewed just fine.  Bobbin no longer jumping.    Just in case you are unaware, there are leveling feet on the underside of the embroiderly attachment.  This makes a big difference on how it sews.


Suzanne Martin
 

Which machine has the levels?

Thank you!
Suzanne Martin, Broker, GRI
MPI Realty
407-234-6906
suzmar45@...
MLS App Link: mls-client.com/5D6896A2

Rocket Pro Loan Originator

Home Purchase And Refinance

NMLS #2095733


From: onlinesewing-janome@groups.io <onlinesewing-janome@groups.io> on behalf of Cheryl Alm <cannalm@...>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 11:34:07 AM
To: onlinesewing-janome@groups.io <onlinesewing-janome@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [onlinesewing-janome] Bobbin Case Jumping
 
That is great information this topic comes up frequently and this is such an easy thing to fix. 


On Oct 11, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Cynthia Dickerson <cindydickerson@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

Thank you for this information!  I find this very interesting!!  I was having problem embroidering and could hear the bobbin take a jump from time to time.  I had it a place where I usually do not sew.  My machine was not level, which I fixed and it did not like the thread that I was using.  It had a tiny bit of metallic in it.  After leveling the machine and changing the thread it sewed just fine.  Bobbin no longer jumping.    Just in case you are unaware, there are leveling feet on the underside of the embroiderly attachment.  This makes a big difference on how it sews.


Kathy Skagen
 

Very good to know! Thanks.

On Monday, October 11, 2021, 10:22:08 AM CDT, Cynthia Dickerson <cindydickerson@...> wrote:


[Edited Message Follows]

Thank you for this information!  I find this very interesting!!  I was having problem embroidering and could hear the bobbin take a jump from time to time.  I had it a place where I usually do not sew.  My machine was not level, which I fixed and it did not like the thread that I was using.  It had a tiny bit of metallic in it.  After leveling the machine and changing the thread it sewed just fine.  Bobbin no longer jumping.    Just in case you are unaware, there are leveling feet on the underside of the embroiderly attachment.  This makes a big difference on how it sews.


Cynthia Dickerson
 

I have a Janome 15,000 and it has the levels on it.  Not sure about the other embroidery machines.  I also started having trouble embroidering again even after I thought I had it fixed.  Now it is really fixed.  You know what it was?  It was the actual bobbin.  After looking at my bobbin, I don't think it is an original bobbin from Janome.  I changed to a bobbin I am sure is Janome's and it is sewing beautifully.  I am making the same design again today that I sewed out yesterday and the thread that would not work took me about 3 hours to get past that thread yesterday.  Today I had to use it again and it took 20 minutes to sew that part.  I just ordered more original bobbins and I am going to throw all the ones that were suppose to be original Janome bobbins when I ordered them away!  They came with 10 bobbin in a clear plastic bag.  I wondered then if they really were original, I guess they were not.
,
Now I need some more help.  This design I am sewing is going to be an applique for my new faux leather rocking chairs in our rv.  We went out West for three weeks and those mountains really threw things around.  The valance over the window fell down and put a tear in one of my chairs.  I could of cried but I am making a design to put over the tear on each chair.  It is faux leather and I don't know exactly how to attach it.  I could try and sew it on by hand but I am afraid to poke more holes in it and I could glue it but not sure what glue would be the best.  Does anyone have any ideas??  Thanks for any help!


Vikki Youngmeyer
 

I typed “best glue to use on faux leather” into a search engine and got the following: “Unlike natural leather, Faux Leather is not porous, meaning there is no way for any adhesive to get into the material and form a strong bond. If you have a faux leather repair to make, your best option is to use a strong, flexible solvent-based glue like E-6000 craft adhesive, or Gorilla Glue Cleargrip.” I have not used this particular Gorilla glue, but have used other Gorilla glues and have yet to be disappointed!

 

Vikki

Houston, TX

 

 


Melanie Dumas
 

What if you tried using interfacing?

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 8:35 AM Cynthia Dickerson <cindydickerson@...> wrote:
I have a Janome 15,000 and it has the levels on it.  Not sure about the other embroidery machines.  I also started having trouble embroidering again even after I thought I had it fixed.  Now it is really fixed.  You know what it was?  It was the actual bobbin.  After looking at my bobbin, I don't think it is an original bobbin from Janome.  I changed to a bobbin I am sure is Janome's and it is sewing beautifully.  I am making the same design again today that I sewed out yesterday and the thread that would not work took me about 3 hours to get past that thread yesterday.  Today I had to use it again and it took 20 minutes to sew that part.  I just ordered more original bobbins and I am going to throw all the ones that were suppose to be original Janome bobbins when I ordered them away!  They came with 10 bobbin in a clear plastic bag.  I wondered then if they really were original, I guess they were not.
,
Now I need some more help.  This design I am sewing is going to be an applique for my new faux leather rocking chairs in our rv.  We went out West for three weeks and those mountains really threw things around.  The valance over the window fell down and put a tear in one of my chairs.  I could of cried but I am making a design to put over the tear on each chair.  It is faux leather and I don't know exactly how to attach it.  I could try and sew it on by hand but I am afraid to poke more holes in it and I could glue it but not sure what glue would be the best.  Does anyone have any ideas??  Thanks for any help!