Greetings---Please excuse the outburst, but I am frustrated beyond words!!  My e500 machine is making a LOT of excess noise in the bobbin area---again!! I have already had the machine in the shop twice since March for this problem. They say it is fixed but the problem arises again very soon.  The bobbin jerks and spins and makes a lot of noise. The stitching itself is acceptable (so far) but this kind of jerking and spinning cannot be good for the machine. Today, I am using 80 weight thread and a self-wound bobbin from the same spool, doing small 1/4" high lettering.  This noise happens whether I am using 40wt thread/bobbin or the thinner stuff. It sounds almost like sewing over broken glass. Very, very un-nerving.   I have done very little embroidering since I got the machine back about 5 weeks ago--maybe 4 hours' worth. But today, it is acting up terribly. I do oil on a regular schedule, once a month, and she was lubed at the shop a some weeks ago.  I have used a Magic Bobbin Genie underneath the bobbin, in the holder, but that does not seem to remedy the situation. (It is a small flat disc of Teflon supposed to make bobbins run more smoothly....)

Does anyone else have this problem with the e500 or other Janome machine?  Any and all comments appreciated.  
Kathy Strabel   Camas WA

The infamous "bouncing bobbin" is almost always due to the thread catching on a burr with every stitch. This could be a burr in the hook race (worst case), the plastic "base" under the bobbin case, or even the hole in the needle plate that the needle goes through, or the hole the needle goes through in the presser foot. Unless a technician checks all of these, the machine can be deemed operational and returned. In the case of a hook race (metal "basket" the bobbin case sits in), a little oil may mask it for a time, though the oil will find its way into the thread of the stitching. Remove the presser foot, needle plate, and bobbin case. Check all 3 for any sign of nicks, scratches, or roughness that a thread would catch on. Look at the white plastic piece in the bottom of the hook race. Scratches or gouges will grab the thread. Finally using a strong light and magnification to inspect the edges of the hook race. Turn the hand wheel slowly, looking for pits, nicks, gouges, or anything that's not smooth and shiny. Minor damage can be smoothed out by a technician using Janome service part #OILSTONE. Severe damage requires a new hook race. Good luck!

Jim--Thank you for your sage suggestions. I have done some more sleuthing, and compared the bobbins I am using. I usually use pre-wounds. Inspecting some of the pre-wound bobbins, I see some of them have tiny burrs in different places. Next I looked at a Janome branded, empty, new bobbin, and see it is much smoother and maybe made of a better grade of plastic. The Janome bobbin is clearer, the pre-wound one is slightly cloudy. So, my next thing was to wind my own Janome branded bobbin and do a test stitchout. I chose a one-color design with 9,500 stitches. The machine ran much more smoothly, and the bobbin was not jumping and spinning. But at about stitch number 5,100, the noise started up again, and I could hear the spinning and jumping, and increased noise.

  I do not see any crack or other flaws in the white plastic bottom of the hook race, cannot feel or see any burrs, or other flaws on the other pieces and places you described.  What would make this problem go away so temporarily and why does it come back? 

Would it be a judicious move to simply replace the entire race and the holder? The dealer did switch out the bobbin holder in March of this year. But it appears that the holder is a generic part. It does not have any Janome markings or any part number on it. Would not that information be on the part if it were a genuine Janome part?

I think I will ditch my remaining pre-wound bobbins and start winding my own on Janome branded ones. But that seems to solve only half of the problem.

Patiently awaiting your response,
Kathy Strabel   Camas WA

Kathy:

I had an issue like that. then I realized that I was not using Janome Bobbins and the bobbin was rattling from being the wrong size.

Roberta in FL

We once bought a very large quantity of bobbins at a really good price, only to discover that nearly every one of them had a burr. This is called "flashing" and it comes from the plastic injected into the mold backing up slightly into the fill hole. We spent hours filing and cleaning them. After that we bought only Janome bobbins, part #102261103. The number we bought has embedded that part number firmly into my memory. The current incarnation of that part has a small amount of rubber mixed in with the plastic, giving the bobbin a better grip, and making them smoother running. Rather than toss your pre-wounds, you could just wind the thread onto genuine Janome bobbins. That way you'll still get the use of them.

Your bobbin case is probably NOT a generic. Janome cases do not have any brand information on them, and may not have much of a red dot.

If everything is smooth until you get to a specific stitch area, there are a couple of possibilities. First would be the direction the thread is being pulled to make the stitch. I've had cases where embroidery was perfect until the direction of the carriage changed, and then it would mess up. Usually this was due to a crack in the plastic P foot in use at the time. When the thread was pulled over the crack, it would catch. You can repeat your test and see if there is anything about the area of problem that is causing the thread to be pulled in a different direction.

The other possibility is the type of stitching in the problem area. If the stitching is very dense, it may be hard to pull up the stitches through threads from previous stitches. A stitch that isn't pulled up fast enough can catch, and that will make the bobbin rattle and jump. Very short stitches can also be a problem. For example, a satin stitch that is 1mm long, as in an outline, will have big problems with a size 14 needle, which is 1.4mm in diameter. This results in two stitches being made in the same needle hole. That can cause loops, jams, rattling, and more. In such cases the solution is to use a finer thread (e.g. 60wt or 80wt) and a smaller needle, such as 8 or 9.

Replacing the hook race is expensive, and need only be done when there is damage that cannot be buffed out. I probably did it no more than 8 or 10 times in 25 years. If you had enough damage to warrant replacement, you would have constant problems and your dealer would (should) have recognized the cause.

JIm---Thank you again for your suggestions. After reading this last note, I will switch out my needle for a smaller, thinner needle with a smaller eye. I generally will use a metallic needle,and have always had very nice results, which I credit to the longer, deeper scarf and the larger eye of the metallic needle. Stranger things have happened......  I stopped my test piece at the place where I began hearing the increased noise. I will switch out the needle later today and report back. The design is not very dense, more like a "lacy" appearance, though not an  FSL design. It is a butterfly a little larger than the palm of my hand.  This should eliminate any of the " two stitches in the same hole" problem, if it is indeed the cause. I will stay on the test butterfly design already hooped and waiting on my machine and compare the stitches, noises, and any other differences I may observe and report back.

As for replacing the hook race and the holder: Even if it is expensive, it probably is cheaper to do that than buy a new machine, which definitely is not in the budget anyway. So, if it comes down to that, I may just bite the bullet and try  replacing the parts. I am not so amused that the dealer kept trying to sell me a new machine before I even left his shop a few months ago.  I "get" that selling machines is his job, but providing excellent repair service is also a huge chunk of any dealer's job.  
Thank you again, and stay tuned--same time, same station as they used to say......
Kathy Strabel 

Jim---I have switched out my usual metallic needle for a Schmetz (my usual brand) Embroidery needle size 11. Re-started up the butterfly design test design where I left off.  All went well for about 1,000 stitches, then I got a lot of noise again. I stopped the machine and turned over the hoop and see that I got a huge bird nest. When I looked closely at the eye of the needle, there were TWO threads coming out of the eye.  This sounds to me more like a "two needle plunges into the same hole" problem, only it is with a dedicated embroidery needle with a smaller eye than I usually use.  I am now more befuddled.And, of course I have a time-sensitive project to complete....

I am not opposed to buying replacement parts and having them professionally installed. But where would I look for genuine Janome parts of this kind? Are they available to the public, or only to dealers? I would rather purchase the parts myself than trust this shop to get the genuine parts. They ARE a Janome dealer, but...  Judging from what I have seen of their "inner sanctum" work area, I can only surmise that stuff gets knocked around, bumped and generally shuffled about, and possibly damaged before they would even install them. I still have until February or March 2022 warranty on the labor that started this process. ---I originally brought my machine to them back in early 2021, and this noisy rattling was #1 on the list of things they supposedly fixed.  Unfortunately, there is not another shop locally that that I know of that gets my vote of confidence.

Which brings me around to this: Does anyone have a really really good service supplier for their Janome in the greater Portland, Oregon/ Southwest Washington state region?  I do not intend to "diss" this or any shop on this platform; I just need some information from people who have had great experiences with sewing shops.

Thanks again,  happy stitching!!
Kathy Strabel   Camas WA

First, with regard to the hook race (which you almost certainly do not need): this part is only available from Janome. There is no market for knock-off parts of this kind, since it is not replaced that frequently, and it is not cheap to make. There are some Janome dealers that do sell parts online, but only frequently replaced items that they would normally keep in stock. The secondary market guys mainly deal in items like bobbins and feet.

The symptoms you've described are exactly the sort of thing that happens with a design that is very dense. It can be from too large a needle and too heavy a thread. It's not the eye of the needle that can be a problem, but the size of the hole it makes. You can also get this problem if you don't have adequate stabilizer. For example, a traditional water-soluble stabilizer used for topping will break down when used to make lace. Thousands of needle penetrations literally shred it. This brings to mind an MB-4 that we sold years ago to a lady who was using it in business to embroider uniforms for high schools. She had exactly the problems you are having, using a size 11 needle and 40wt thread. We went through a lot of different things to solve it. Ultimately the solution was size 8 needles and 80wt thread.

Start by trying heavier, or additional, stabilizer. If that doesn't help you may have to go to finer thread and a very small needle.

If design is real dense You might try to enlarge it 10-20% making it not as dense!
Kaye in la

Jim--Thanks again for your advice and suggestions.  The problem is still with me.....

You have almost convinced me that I do not need a new hook race assembly, but----you mention that what I last described is exactly what happens if a design is too dense or the fabric too thick/heavy. My butterfly test stitchout  in not dense at all as you will see in the 2 photos I posted in Kathy's Hoop folder in the Photos section. (The hoop is from a separate issue I was having about a year ago---solved! YAYY!).   The fabric is ordinary quilting cotton with 2 layers of a lightweight fusible, tearaway Pellon stabilizer. This stabilizer has worked well for me in the past, with 40 wt thread top and bottom  and a metallic needle size 12. I am having trouble uploading the other photo I want you to see--it is the same design on the same fabric type, with the same stabilizer as a test I did for another project last year.  The test from a year ago shows much better in the photo due to the colors.  I will attempt to re-post after I take a short break.   So, I really do not think this is a thread/stabilizer/needle issue primarily.  And I really believe in the importance of doing a test stitchout almost every time I use a design.  It has saved me from wasting a perfectly good blank on occasion. 

That being said, I just have to wonder that " IF" all the variables that I have set up are "right", then what else could be causing this very annoying problem?  My machine is well cared-for, oiled regularly, has not been bumped, is very secure in the car when I have to transport it, no one else has access to my machine, my cat is afraid of it and I don't have a dog that might knock it off the table, etc. I have had this machine for almost 3 years and it does turn out very lovely results  when it feels like it. I did not start having this issue until about February of this year.  I use quality poly thread--  Robison Anton, or Floriani usually.  I did find out that this machine does not like Coats and Clark embroidery thread, so I gave that all away.  I change the needle frequently--for each project generally.  The machine does not make any other untoward noises, and nothing appears to be loose or missing.  

Kaye----The design I am using as a test stitchout is not dense at all, but is rather lace-y in appearance.  But your suggestion to enlarge slightly might come in handy for something else in the future.  I am having quite a conversation with Jim, the Moderator of our Group, and I am happy to have people read the saga of this annoying problem. I hope that people can learn something new by following the thread from beginning to end--which, I hope comes soon. as I am quite frustrated. Jim is a very good source of information!!!
Happy stitching!!
Kathy Strabel   Camas WA

Jim---Once again, thank you for your advice and suggestions. You have almost convinced me that I do not need to buy a new race hook assembly. 

Your description of my most recent trouble says that the problem is usually associated with heavy fabric and/or very dense designs.  My test stitchout of the butterfly is neither dense nor on heavy fabric. Just ordinary quilting cotton----the sample on the plaid fabric in the picture.  And, I have used this design in the past with great success--on quilting cotton, 40 wt thread top and bottom, and with a Metallic needle.   You can see this on the multi-colored sample I dug out of a drawer.   So, I don't think what I have is a thread/needle problem.   ( I posted 2 photos in Kathy's Hoop folder in the Photo section. For some un- known reason, I cannot get the 3rd photo to "go". It shows the same design on the same type of fabric same stabilizer and done with a metallic needle size 12. Just for comparison sake....)

I put my thinking cap on and came up with this question: Assuming that all of my preparations are "right"----no threading errors, Janome brand bobbin, same thread weights top and bottom, a needle type and size I know to perform well, adequate stabilizer and good hooping technique, a design that is not dense, suitable cotton quilting fabric, and all planets correctly aligned-----what else could be happening here??    My machine has not been bumped or dropped, it is securely fastened under a tight cargo net in the trunk of my car when transporting--it does not budge.  And the only trips she has taken are to and from the repair shop!! No one else in my household has access to my machine. My cat is afraid of the machine and I don't even have a  dog that might investigate the machine......I cannot think of any other variables.

Happy (?) stitching,
Kathy Strabel   Camas WA

Jim--I finally got the 3rd photo I wanted you to see re: the lack of density in my butterfly stitchout. Kathy's Hoop Folder in Photos section.
Kathy Strabel   Camas WA

It's really hard to tell what's going on from the photos. I'm still doubtful it's a hook race problem, since it only happens in one spot. Unfortunately further diagnosis from here is pretty much down to guesswork. You might try looking at the back, under a bright light, with magnification. This will let you see the state of the stabilizer and fabric. In particular, follow one of the loops back to see if you have multiple threads coming from the same needle penetration. That will always cause trouble. If that doesn't get you anywhere I'm afraid you'll need to take it to a technician to see what's going on.

Hi Jim,

On my 500E, I have definitely done designs that have “multiple threads coming from the same needle penetration”.
For me, that mostly happens with small designs with things like tiny objects that have a lot of fill or heavy outlines. I have had the same issue happen, where I see loops on the top of the design in random spots. So I am another one who has no clue how to avoid that problem. Soooo frustrating!

As an afterthought, there are so many sources for purchased designs (as on Etsy) that it is difficult to tell how good or bad a design is going to turn out. Maybe we need to keep a file of “Embroidery Design Hall of Fame/Shame” for those of us who purchase designs?

Roberta in FL

Roberta in FL

--

Virginia----So, after waiting for the parts to arrive, did that solve your problem?   I am at my wit's end, have a limited budget, and really want this issue put to bed. I am getting great advice from the moderator Jim, but since he is doing this far far away from where I am, it is difficult to diagnose specifically what is going wrong.  I will be playing golf today to separate myself from this annoyance for a day.  A much-needed respite from this frustration.  Please let me know if you have had success after replacing the hook race parts.  And where do you live?
Happy stitching-----
Kathy Strabel   Camas WA    ksbappa@...