On the proliferation of groups


Jim Stutsman
 

< Long Rant>
Many years ago, perhaps an eon in Internet time, I joined an email list run by a couple in Virginia. This was known as the "Wades' List", following the name of the couple. Through that list I met a number of friends, and even attended a "gathering" of members. Eventually the company that hosted that list was absorbed by Yahoo. After the introduction of the Memory Craft 12000 I created a new group for support, and extended it to eventually include all of the 9mm embroidery-capable models. Last year Verizon consumed Yahoo, as we move ever closer to one gigantic corporation that owns everything in the world. I blissfully ignored that, until my dear friend Maggie alerted me that Verizon has no intention of supporting Yahoo Groups. Using the tools provided, I migrated the group to Groups.io, which you are now in if you are reading this. This company still provides a free service, with some restrictions. As we move forward I will probably adopt one of their commercial plans just for the convenience of the additional features.

Meanwhile, down in the (Silicon) Valley another gigantic entity called Facebook also provides groups. These are not email-based, but rather feed into your Facebook daily feed. It's very close to real time, meaning that questions asked there are often answered within a few minutes - no need to wait for email, especially if you only get a daily digest of posts here. A group focused on the Janome 15000 was created, which I joined. I should point out that being the administrator of a group does require a time commitment, especially if it has a lot of members. I have one group that I administer, but it's small and devoted to one of our iPad apps. I don't post as often as I should, but that's mostly because I am over-committed in other areas. What I have noticed in very large Facebook groups is that there is a lot of impatience. When the same question is posted for the third or fourth time, snarky comments follow. This is partly because Facebook is like a stream. Things go floating by and they disappear. You can't search to see if a question has been asked before. Searching a mailing list is not particularly rewarding either, but there is some hope of finding what you want. Not so on Facebook - if you see it and you think you might want it later, you have to save it. I think this is why a lot of groups tend to get "mean" over time. This has happened to two groups I am in that are devoted to humor. New people don't know what's already been posted, so they post things they like, not knowing they've been seen by almost all the members multiple times. This leads to nasty comments and requests that the administrator change the rules regarding new posts. As members are chastised for innocent behavior, they leave and often form a new "nice" group. This process can repeat many times.

This is not quite the same behavior as what has happened in the "Janome Horizon MC 15000" group, but it's similar. Moderating a group means you may have a member who has little to no dealer support, and you get peppered with questions that have already been answered before. I learned early on that creating this group would mean I would be fulfilling the dealer's role of support without any compensation. It's worth it to me in order to keep in touch with you, as friends AND as customers. We do have an income stream from our apps, which is sufficient for us to avoid food stamps, but not enough for a weekend in Maui. You have been very loyal to us, and have recommended us to countless others, for which we are very grateful. That's why we're here.

All that having been said, we need to say something about Facebook. It's a completely free service, yet the founder is one of the richest men in the world. How is this possible? On the Internet, which you cannot see where the money comes from, it's YOU! Not only does Facebook relentlessly watch your every click so they can craft ads just for you, they also mine an enormous amount of data regarding your likes, dislikes, and general interests. This is shared (for money) with many other companies so they can market to you. That's the price of using this "free" service. With all the furor over the CIA and NSA capturing data on citizens, I would venture to say that Facebook already has far more information than the government has ever collected. And they are working non-stop on new methods to capture even more data. I'm not trying to prevent you from using Facebook. It's too late for that, we're all in now! I just wanted to offer a bit of perspective to increase understanding. The unintended consequence of the always-connected nature of the Internet tends to split people up into polarized camps. That's why I don't use Twitter - everything said leads to one group loving it and another hating it! I don't have a solution. I think it's inherent to the Internet itself. It's much easier to chew someone out through a keyboard, rather than face to face over the back fence.

</ Long Rant>


HEATHER COWAN
 

Thank you for your insight, dedication and honest endeavours to help and inform we sewers. In the internet age of instant everything some of the casualties are lack of patience and civility. I have found both on this group as well as many answers to my sewing questions and am always amazed at how generous sewers are. Please keep up the good fight.
Many blessings
Hugs
Heather


Dottie Newkirk
 

Thanks for your note ("rant", LOL), Jim......I'm one of those fortunate to have met you and Diane (as well as Stan from Australia) many, many years ago at the Virginia get-together.

You and Diane have been so very, very helpful to Janome owners/users for many years and y'all are very appreciated!!!  Happy 2018 and looking forward to more help and humor this year.  Dottie (now in Texas)


Mary E
 

Your advice has been invaluable for me, Jim. I appreciate learning how all the levels of the internet are working, especially how much info they are collecting on us regular folks 
Mary


On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, <onlinesewing@...> wrote:
< Long Rant>
Many years ago, perhaps an eon in Internet time, I joined an email list run by a couple in Virginia. This was known as the "Wades' List", following the name of the couple. Through that list I met a number of friends, and even attended a "gathering" of members. Eventually the company that hosted that list was absorbed by Yahoo. After the introduction of the Memory Craft 12000 I created a new group for support, and extended it to eventually include all of the 9mm embroidery-capable models. Last year Verizon consumed Yahoo, as we move ever closer to one gigantic corporation that owns everything in the world. I blissfully ignored that, until my dear friend Maggie alerted me that Verizon has no intention of supporting Yahoo Groups. Using the tools provided, I migrated the group to Groups.io, which you are now in if you are reading this. This company still provides a free service, with some restrictions. As we move forward I will probably adopt one of their commercial plans just for the convenience of the additional features.

Meanwhile, down in the (Silicon) Valley another gigantic entity called Facebook also provides groups. These are not email-based, but rather feed into your Facebook daily feed. It's very close to real time, meaning that questions asked there are often answered within a few minutes - no need to wait for email, especially if you only get a daily digest of posts here. A group focused on the Janome 15000 was created, which I joined. I should point out that being the administrator of a group does require a time commitment, especially if it has a lot of members. I have one group that I administer, but it's small and devoted to one of our iPad apps. I don't post as often as I should, but that's mostly because I am over-committed in other areas. What I have noticed in very large Facebook groups is that there is a lot of impatience. When the same question is posted for the third or fourth time, snarky comments follow. This is partly because Facebook is like a stream. Things go floating by and they disappear. You can't search to see if a question has been asked before. Searching a mailing list is not particularly rewarding either, but there is some hope of finding what you want. Not so on Facebook - if you see it and you think you might want it later, you have to save it. I think this is why a lot of groups tend to get "mean" over time. This has happened to two groups I am in that are devoted to humor. New people don't know what's already been posted, so they post things they like, not knowing they've been seen by almost all the members multiple times. This leads to nasty comments and requests that the administrator change the rules regarding new posts. As members are chastised for innocent behavior, they leave and often form a new "nice" group. This process can repeat many times.

This is not quite the same behavior as what has happened in the "Janome Horizon MC 15000" group, but it's similar. Moderating a group means you may have a member who has little to no dealer support, and you get peppered with questions that have already been answered before. I learned early on that creating this group would mean I would be fulfilling the dealer's role of support without any compensation. It's worth it to me in order to keep in touch with you, as friends AND as customers. We do have an income stream from our apps, which is sufficient for us to avoid food stamps, but not enough for a weekend in Maui. You have been very loyal to us, and have recommended us to countless others, for which we are very grateful. That's why we're here.

All that having been said, we need to say something about Facebook. It's a completely free service, yet the founder is one of the richest men in the world. How is this possible? On the Internet, which you cannot see where the money comes from, it's YOU! Not only does Facebook relentlessly watch your every click so they can craft ads just for you, they also mine an enormous amount of data regarding your likes, dislikes, and general interests. This is shared (for money) with many other companies so they can market to you. That's the price of using this "free" service. With all the furor over the CIA and NSA capturing data on citizens, I would venture to say that Facebook already has far more information than the government has ever collected. And they are working non-stop on new methods to capture even more data. I'm not trying to prevent you from using Facebook. It's too late for that, we're all in now! I just wanted to offer a bit of perspective to increase understanding. The unintended consequence of the always-connected nature of the Internet tends to split people up into polarized camps. That's why I don't use Twitter - everything said leads to one group loving it and another hating it! I don't have a solution. I think it's inherent to the Internet itself. It's much easier to chew someone out through a keyboard, rather than face to face over the back fence.

</ Long Rant>


maggie cooper
 

that's not a rant Jim, just someone explaining things nicely. I have been accused of being a technophobe because I refuse to own an iPad or iPhone, or one of the many android versions that exist. How can you possibly manage without a smart phone is a question I'm frequently asked. I know I shouldn't but I invariably answer with 'send smoke signals'that usually is met with 'so your scared of technology, I shrug and ignore it. I love all the massive technological leaps that have happened over the past 100 years, I embrace the advances made in fields as diverse as weather forecasting, (still can't compete with Freds aching knees) to space exploration, I love using technology as a tool. What I don't like is how it is used by commerce to shape peoples choices, the callous way companies like Google, Facebook, Instagram, Watts-app. MicroSoft and Apple simply ignore end users  privacy settings, they are treated as nothing more than data collection points to generate huge profits. If you own a smart phone, you are effectively wearing a barcode, it can track your every move, send details back to an enormous data cruncher, who needs big brother, its here and its called iPhone, iPad or Android. Clicks on a like symbol, that betrays your likes and dislikes, browse the Internet and every site you visit, every article you read, even sites well brought up folks shouldn't visit, are recorded. Governments would love unfettered access to all the data we unwitting mortals gladly provide every day, that is the side of technology I dislike. 
I did very much against my better judgement, join FB to support both a good friend and Wilcom's Hatch FB group Hatchlings. I sent one post to my friends group, and answered 2 hatch questions, FB decided my activity was suspicious and because I didn't own a smart phone to verify my identity, decided to bar me. Believe me that was wonderful, I don't do Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, WhatsAp, (owned by FB) I do use Skype to natter to my family in Oz, Indonesia, old friends in the USA and Europe, but even that is getting annoyingly pervasive. So I'm thinking of going back to a Voip softphone, something I used for a long time.  So no technology doesn't worry me, its the way the big boys use it to control, manipulate, shape the lives of their end users.
Now that is a rant!
 


Jim Stutsman
 

Well said!


Charlene Kay Bergren
 

Just wanted to say a great big “thank you” Jim, for all your valuable information you provide to all of us.   I read it all every day – keep some for reference now and later – and gain lots of knowledge from someone who has “been there and done it” – you Jim.  Hope in 2018, I’ll see my way clear to get a 15000 – but time will tell.  Thanks again to you and Diane for all your great advice!

 

Kay Bergren

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


suerevere@ymail.com
 

As one of the “Wade’s Group” members eons ago, I thank you for the education and the trip down memory lane. I remember when you started the group and how much help you gave to us all. Remember the program you wrote to use as a work-around until Janome came up with a fix for … ( I don’t remember what it did or why we needed it, but I used it — it had a frog for it’s icon). You always had a workaround for us for problems, and this is going back to when many of us were using coffee filters for stabilizers. WOW has technology and access to everything come a long way quickly. My first access to online was using Prodigy thru Compuserve and aol at a baud rate of 1200 — (shoot me!). I loved out of the country for several years and your group’s assistance was invaluable. Thanks to all the help you and the group provided, I was able to stick to it and enjoy it tremendously. Thanks to you and Diane!


Patricia Ward
 

Back to the days of the 9000... remember Jim's Lettering program and the program for the no 5 hoop so we could get more designs into it?   

Yep, way back when.....and we sure have come a LONG way...   vbg 

Pat

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 6:46 PM, suerevere@... <srevere@...> wrote:
As one of the “Wade’s Group” members eons ago, I thank you for the education and the trip down memory lane. I remember when you started the group and how much help you gave to us all. Remember the program you wrote to use as a work-around until Janome came up with a fix for … ( I don’t remember what it did or why we needed it, but I used it — it had a frog for it’s icon). You always had a workaround for us for problems, and this is going back to when many of us were using coffee filters for stabilizers. WOW has technology and access to everything come a long way quickly. My first access to online was using Prodigy thru Compuserve and aol at a baud rate of 1200 — (shoot me!). I loved out of the country for several years and your group’s assistance was invaluable. Thanks to all the help you and the group provided, I was able to stick to it and enjoy it tremendously. Thanks to you and Diane!






Ann Jones
 

Lovely rant Maggie. I so supported your first email re the temerity of the writer re the FB group. I always look forward to my emails that this group sends in and have found Jim and Dianne’s information valuable
I do not have the 15000 but both the 9400 and 500e The information is generic to a sewer who can multitask.
Btw I am in Adelaide au which has little to do with this discussion other than to say our shop options are few hence the internet invaluable especially this group.handi quilter went to FB from a yahoo group and has been the poorer for it. Google are good at targeting ads directed at the user, Hmmm as Maggie said just a huge data collection.
May the group continue to thrive and blossom as is very much needed. And may the odd user read the information re email etiquette. My two cents worth.
Ann


Sent from Yahoo7 Mail. Get the app

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 11/1/18, maggie cooper via Groups.Io <maggiecoops=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Subject: Re: [onlinesewing-janome] On the proliferation of groups
To: onlinesewing-janome@groups.io
Received: Thursday, 11 January, 2018, 9:31 AM

that's not a rant
Jim, just someone explaining things nicely. I have been
accused of being a technophobe because I refuse to own an
iPad or iPhone, or one of the many android versions that
exist. How can you possibly manage without a smart phone is
a question I'm frequently asked. I know I shouldn't
but I invariably answer with 'send smoke
signals'that usually is met with 'so your scared of
technology, I shrug and ignore it. I love all the massive
technological leaps that have happened over the past 100
years, I embrace the advances made in fields as diverse as
weather forecasting, (still can't compete with Freds
aching knees) to space exploration, I love using technology
as a tool. What I don't like is how it is used by
commerce to shape peoples choices, the callous way companies
like Google, Facebook, Instagram, Watts-app. MicroSoft and
Apple simply ignore end users  privacy settings, they are
treated as nothing more than data collection points to
generate huge profits. If you own a smart phone, you are
effectively wearing a barcode, it can track your every move,
send details back to an enormous data cruncher, who needs
big brother, its here and its called iPhone, iPad or
Android. Clicks on a like symbol, that betrays your likes
and dislikes, browse the Internet and every site you visit,
every article you read, even sites well brought up folks
shouldn't visit, are recorded. Governments would love
unfettered access to all the data we unwitting mortals
gladly provide every day, that is the side of technology I
dislike. 
I did very much against my better
judgement, join FB to support both a good friend and
Wilcom's Hatch FB group Hatchlings. I sent one post to
my friends group, and answered 2 hatch questions, FB decided
my activity was suspicious and because I didn't own a
smart phone to verify my identity, decided to bar me.
Believe me that was wonderful, I don't do Twitter,
Instagram, LinkedIn, WhatsAp, (owned by FB) I do use Skype
to natter to my family in Oz, Indonesia, old friends in the
USA and Europe, but even that is getting annoyingly
pervasive. So I'm thinking of going back to a Voip
softphone, something I used for a long time.  So no
technology doesn't worry me, its the way the big boys
use it to control, manipulate, shape the lives of their end
users.
Now that is a rant!


Kaye Lessard
 

Pat are you also the lady who went to jims mc university classes in Denton Tx way when???
i remember meeting you at that class!!!
kaye in la (lessard)


Patricia Ward
 

Kaye, no that was not me....  maybe another Pat?    I met Diane, Jim, and Stan Woodward at the Wades Gathering in Virginia.  That Stan was quite a character...  put him with Jim and you were sure to have laughs and entertainment from the two.  😊

Pat 

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 2:57 AM, Kaye Lessard <ekay50@...> wrote:
Pat are you also the lady who went to jims mc university classes in Denton Tx way when???
i remember meeting you at that class!!!
kaye in la (lessard)



Maria Morrow
 

Jim and Diane,

Most of my adult life has been volunteering.  You are right on all points. I hope this poem blesses and doesn’t offend anyone.  I learned it in a private school forty years ago. At that time the author was unknown... now someone has claimed ownership. But I think the author was someone from way long ago.   This poem, among many other great writings, gives me great hope when this world gets scary and when I think about Big Brother watching. 
 

Step By Step
Author unknown

He does not lead me year by year,
Nor even day by day.
But step by step my path unfolds.
Th Lord directs my way.

Tomorrow’s plans I do not know,
I only know this minute. 
But He will say, “This is the way,
By faith, now walk ye in it.”

And I am glad that it is so,
Today’s enough to bear. 
For when tomorrow comes,
His grace shall far exceed His care. 

So do not worry then or fret,
The  God who gave His Son.
Holds all my moments in His Hand
And gives them one by one.



Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 10, 2018, at 11:08 AM, onlinesewing@... wrote:

< Long Rant>
Many years ago, perhaps an eon in Internet time, I joined an email list run by a couple in Virginia. This was known as the "Wades' List", following the name of the couple. Through that list I met a number of friends, and even attended a "gathering" of members. Eventually the company that hosted that list was absorbed by Yahoo. After the introduction of the Memory Craft 12000 I created a new group for support, and extended it to eventually include all of the 9mm embroidery-capable models. Last year Verizon consumed Yahoo, as we move ever closer to one gigantic corporation that owns everything in the world. I blissfully ignored that, until my dear friend Maggie alerted me that Verizon has no intention of supporting Yahoo Groups. Using the tools provided, I migrated the group to Groups.io, which you are now in if you are reading this. This company still provides a free service, with some restrictions. As we move forward I will probably adopt one of their commercial plans just for the convenience of the additional features.

Meanwhile, down in the (Silicon) Valley another gigantic entity called Facebook also provides groups. These are not email-based, but rather feed into your Facebook daily feed. It's very close to real time, meaning that questions asked there are often answered within a few minutes - no need to wait for email, especially if you only get a daily digest of posts here. A group focused on the Janome 15000 was created, which I joined. I should point out that being the administrator of a group does require a time commitment, especially if it has a lot of members. I have one group that I administer, but it's small and devoted to one of our iPad apps. I don't post as often as I should, but that's mostly because I am over-committed in other areas. What I have noticed in very large Facebook groups is that there is a lot of impatience. When the same question is posted for the third or fourth time, snarky comments follow. This is partly because Facebook is like a stream. Things go floating by and they disappear. You can't search to see if a question has been asked before. Searching a mailing list is not particularly rewarding either, but there is some hope of finding what you want. Not so on Facebook - if you see it and you think you might want it later, you have to save it. I think this is why a lot of groups tend to get "mean" over time. This has happened to two groups I am in that are devoted to humor. New people don't know what's already been posted, so they post things they like, not knowing they've been seen by almost all the members multiple times. This leads to nasty comments and requests that the administrator change the rules regarding new posts. As members are chastised for innocent behavior, they leave and often form a new "nice" group. This process can repeat many times.

This is not quite the same behavior as what has happened in the "Janome Horizon MC 15000" group, but it's similar. Moderating a group means you may have a member who has little to no dealer support, and you get peppered with questions that have already been answered before. I learned early on that creating this group would mean I would be fulfilling the dealer's role of support without any compensation. It's worth it to me in order to keep in touch with you, as friends AND as customers. We do have an income stream from our apps, which is sufficient for us to avoid food stamps, but not enough for a weekend in Maui. You have been very loyal to us, and have recommended us to countless others, for which we are very grateful. That's why we're here.

All that having been said, we need to say something about Facebook. It's a completely free service, yet the founder is one of the richest men in the world. How is this possible? On the Internet, which you cannot see where the money comes from, it's YOU! Not only does Facebook relentlessly watch your every click so they can craft ads just for you, they also mine an enormous amount of data regarding your likes, dislikes, and general interests. This is shared (for money) with many other companies so they can market to you. That's the price of using this "free" service. With all the furor over the CIA and NSA capturing data on citizens, I would venture to say that Facebook already has far more information than the government has ever collected. And they are working non-stop on new methods to capture even more data. I'm not trying to prevent you from using Facebook. It's too late for that, we're all in now! I just wanted to offer a bit of perspective to increase understanding. The unintended consequence of the always-connected nature of the Internet tends to split people up into polarized camps. That's why I don't use Twitter - everything said leads to one group loving it and another hating it! I don't have a solution. I think it's inherent to the Internet itself. It's much easier to chew someone out through a keyboard, rather than face to face over the back fence.

</ Long Rant>


cas <cassweet@...>
 

I quit using Facebook quite a while ago. Canceled my account.  Don’t miss it much,  I can still see most interesting stuff and pictures and stuff without logging in.  Sometimes there’s a big banner in the way.  Annoying.  I like my privacy.  Although I’m online so there really is no such thing anymore, at least Facebook isn’t getting a chunk of it.

 

I know what you mean about the annoyance when people ask questions that people in the group have seen a million times. I see that in every group people post to.  I remember when I joined a knitting message board  and I was the one asking all the ”dumb” questions.  I was so excited about learning to knit and finding the group and wanting to know everything.  I jumped right in and asked a bunch of questions that I probably could have learned from a book or online but I wanted to be part of the knitting “community”.   I started automatically opening every message that said, “This is probably a stupid question ….” Or “I hope this hasn’t been asked before…”  and I learned so much from other people’s dumb questions too. 

 

In Yahoo we saw the same questions come up a lot because it’s so hard to find the information you swear you knew and would remember, but forgot, and because new people are always joining.

 

I don’t mind the repeats, and being new to many things I have a lot of patience with that kind of thing.  I often think people should spend less time finding things to irritate themselves and fight about, and just go do something fun.  J  I guess they have nothing fun to do so they look for things to get angry about and complain and create issues …

When I was in a sad/bad mood I would just stay offline because I knew I would read into a message something that probably wasn’t intended.  . 

 

One other thing that annoys me about some online boards and groups is when people ask a question and 10 people take the time to post “Google it!”  If they wanted to google it they probably wouldn’t join a group of like minded people and ask for their opinions and information.

 

Thanks Jim and Diane for this group.  Love it!  We have a nice bunch here.

Cas


Cat - N
 

From what I have seen, it isn't technically "Big Brother" who IS watching...and doing more than just watching.  It is completely off topic for me to comment further, and therefore, I am not going to post even a starter link (private contact is okay), but to see how "Facebook" came to exist, you only need to search for Michael McKibben and Leader Technologies then free up some time to read perhaps 'shocking' information from 'public' records, especially when you start seeing 'names' of those involved.  It's quite a long history but still very current and on-going for over 17 years, and very pertinent to much of what the internet is being used for, by, and some actions that can still be taken.

Because I realize there is considerable effort for owners/moderators, I personally would like to thank Jim and Diane for their hard work in creating groups where we can share ideas, information, and ask questions!

- Cat

On Jan 10, 2018, at 11:08 AM, onlinesewing@... wrote:

< Long Rant>
Many years ago, perhaps an eon in Internet time, I joined an email list run by a couple in Virginia. This was known as the "Wades' List", following the name of the couple. Through that list I met a number of friends, and even attended a "gathering" of members. Eventually the company that hosted that list was absorbed by Yahoo. After the introduction of the Memory Craft 12000 I created a new group for support, and extended it to eventually include all of the 9mm embroidery-capable models. Last year Verizon consumed Yahoo, as we move ever closer to one gigantic corporation that owns everything in the world. I blissfully ignored that, until my dear friend Maggie alerted me that Verizon has no intention of supporting Yahoo Groups. Using the tools provided, I migrated the group to Groups.io, which you are now in if you are reading this. This company still provides a free service, with some restrictions. As we move forward I will probably adopt one of their commercial plans just for the convenience of the additional features.

Meanwhile, down in the (Silicon) Valley another gigantic entity called Facebook also provides groups. These are not email-based, but rather feed into your Facebook daily feed. It's very close to real time, meaning that questions asked there are often answered within a few minutes - no need to wait for email, especially if you only get a daily digest of posts here. A group focused on the Janome 15000 was created, which I joined. I should point out that being the administrator of a group does require a time commitment, especially if it has a lot of members. I have one group that I administer, but it's small and devoted to one of our iPad apps. I don't post as often as I should, but that's mostly because I am over-committed in other areas. What I have noticed in very large Facebook groups is that there is a lot of impatience. When the same question is posted for the third or fourth time, snarky comments follow. This is partly because Facebook is like a stream. Things go floating by and they disappear. You can't search to see if a question has been asked before. Searching a mailing list is not particularly rewarding either, but there is some hope of finding what you want. Not so on Facebook - if you see it and you think you might want it later, you have to save it. I think this is why a lot of groups tend to get "mean" over time. This has happened to two groups I am in that are devoted to humor. New people don't know what's already been posted, so they post things they like, not knowing they've been seen by almost all the members multiple times. This leads to nasty comments and requests that the administrator change the rules regarding new posts. As members are chastised for innocent behavior, they leave and often form a new "nice" group. This process can repeat many times.

This is not quite the same behavior as what has happened in the "Janome Horizon MC 15000" group, but it's similar. Moderating a group means you may have a member who has little to no dealer support, and you get peppered with questions that have already been answered before. I learned early on that creating this group would mean I would be fulfilling the dealer's role of support without any compensation. It's worth it to me in order to keep in touch with you, as friends AND as customers. We do have an income stream from our apps, which is sufficient for us to avoid food stamps, but not enough for a weekend in Maui. You have been very loyal to us, and have recommended us to countless others, for which we are very grateful. That's why we're here.

All that having been said, we need to say something about Facebook. It's a completely free service, yet the founder is one of the richest men in the world. How is this possible? On the Internet, which you cannot see where the money comes from, it's YOU! Not only does Facebook relentlessly watch your every click so they can craft ads just for you, they also mine an enormous amount of data regarding your likes, dislikes, and general interests. This is shared (for money) with many other companies so they can market to you. That's the price of using this "free" service. With all the furor over the CIA and NSA capturing data on citizens, I would venture to say that Facebook already has far more information than the government has ever collected. And they are working non-stop on new methods to capture even more data. I'm not trying to prevent you from using Facebook. It's too late for that, we're all in now! I just wanted to offer a bit of perspective to increase understanding. The unintended consequence of the always-connected nature of the Internet tends to split people up into polarized camps. That's why I don't use Twitter - everything said leads to one group loving it and another hating it! I don't have a solution. I think it's inherent to the Internet itself. It's much easier to chew someone out through a keyboard, rather than face to face over the back fence.

</ Long Rant>


Pixey
 

I do appreciate the balance and deeper understanding of technology and human nature that both Jim and Maggie express and have established as part of the protocols of their groups. Working in the academic environment in a profession that deals with information writ large, it is a strange and evolving world of social media cultures and information security that we live in that many don’t understand. It is important to be thoughtful in how one engages, through which venues, and on which devices.

Every year my institution does an information security awareness week with speakers, emails with tips, training snippets, etc. While I do have computers and iPads, I don’t have a smartphone or Facebook account and am very careful about what I put out where on the web with its oxymoron of digital permanence.

Respectfully,
Pixey

Sent from my iPad


Ceil J
 

I have no intention of defending either Facebook or its founder for what they do and what they have done.  Some of the sites they allow have the most awful and dreadful things posted on them.  As a tool for communicating with others in the world of sewing, embroidery, and other crafts, I have found it to be a wonderful place.  I'm not suggesting that all would be comfortable doing this but many of us are enjoying it and benefiting from the friends we meet there.  What goes on there is more of a conversation among friends.  If I had posted what I posted in this group the other day, likely someone would have questioned what I meant and let me know that they disagreed.  When I explained what I meant, that would have been the end of it.  The air is cleared quickly or you move on.  I did receive some supportive private emails from some members of this group and I thank them but that would not have been necessary on Facebook as the situation would not have evolved as it did.  The people on Facebook are usually gracious, but yes some do say "Google it" instead of being helpful.  Citing pages in the manual is one way to help others learn that information is available to them.
Facebook certainly has a lot to answer for, and it's sad that it has become a platform for many terrible things but there are some wonderful people there having nice conversations that they could not have if it were not for that platform.  If there is a question about something, you can answer, ignore it, or choose to follow the post without answering to see what is said.  It can easily swallow up great blocks of time, however and some can become addicted to seeing how many "likes" they get for a particular idea, picture, or whatever.  For the careful user it can be a great place.  It is also strange to me that my daughter and grandchildren seldom post on Facebook anymore as they find it "old fashioned"!  The world certainly can change quickly.


Linda M Robertson <lindamrobertson7@...>
 

I have found most of the sewing/quilting/embroidery groups on FB to be very helpful, with quick responses. 

Linda 


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2018, at 3:05 PM, Ceil J <cjancola@...> wrote:

I have no intention of defending either Facebook or its founder for what they do and what they have done.  Some of the sites they allow have the most awful and dreadful things posted on them.  As a tool for communicating with others in the world of sewing, embroidery, and other crafts, I have found it to be a wonderful place.  I'm not suggesting that all would be comfortable doing this but many of us are enjoying it and benefiting from the friends we meet there.  What goes on there is more of a conversation among friends.  If I had posted what I posted in this group the other day, likely someone would have questioned what I meant and let me know that they disagreed.  When I explained what I meant, that would have been the end of it.  The air is cleared quickly or you move on.  I did receive some supportive private emails from some members of this group and I thank them but that would not have been necessary on Facebook as the situation would not have evolved as it did.  The people on Facebook are usually gracious, but yes some do say "Google it" instead of being helpful.  Citing pages in the manual is one way to help others learn that information is available to them.
Facebook certainly has a lot to answer for, and it's sad that it has become a platform for many terrible things but there are some wonderful people there having nice conversations that they could not have if it were not for that platform.  If there is a question about something, you can answer, ignore it, or choose to follow the post without answering to see what is said.  It can easily swallow up great blocks of time, however and some can become addicted to seeing how many "likes" they get for a particular idea, picture, or whatever.  For the careful user it can be a great place.  It is also strange to me that my daughter and grandchildren seldom post on Facebook anymore as they find it "old fashioned"!  The world certainly can change quickly.


Laura Velez <lgvelez@...>
 

I agree. There is a specific group for one of my Janomes where I learn a lot and share what I can. Yesterday I went through my list of FB groups and quit (not just unfollowed) quite a few that had become offensive. That action shortened my time on FB, and made my time there more productive. It’s also my way with keeping up with my daughter, my 2 grandkids, my two nieces, and old friends. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 3:30 PM, Linda M Robertson <lindamrobertson7@...> wrote:

I have found most of the sewing/quilting/embroidery groups on FB to be very helpful, with quick responses. 

Linda 


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2018, at 3:05 PM, Ceil J <cjancola@...> wrote:

I have no intention of defending either Facebook or its founder for what they do and what they have done.  Some of the sites they allow have the most awful and dreadful things posted on them.  As a tool for communicating with others in the world of sewing, embroidery, and other crafts, I have found it to be a wonderful place.  I'm not suggesting that all would be comfortable doing this but many of us are enjoying it and benefiting from the friends we meet there.  What goes on there is more of a conversation among friends.  If I had posted what I posted in this group the other day, likely someone would have questioned what I meant and let me know that they disagreed.  When I explained what I meant, that would have been the end of it.  The air is cleared quickly or you move on.  I did receive some supportive private emails from some members of this group and I thank them but that would not have been necessary on Facebook as the situation would not have evolved as it did.  The people on Facebook are usually gracious, but yes some do say "Google it" instead of being helpful.  Citing pages in the manual is one way to help others learn that information is available to them.
Facebook certainly has a lot to answer for, and it's sad that it has become a platform for many terrible things but there are some wonderful people there having nice conversations that they could not have if it were not for that platform.  If there is a question about something, you can answer, ignore it, or choose to follow the post without answering to see what is said.  It can easily swallow up great blocks of time, however and some can become addicted to seeing how many "likes" they get for a particular idea, picture, or whatever.  For the careful user it can be a great place.  It is also strange to me that my daughter and grandchildren seldom post on Facebook anymore as they find it "old fashioned"!  The world certainly can change quickly.


Mary E
 

I also started to unfollow and quit those groups and individuals who made my day seem darker. There's enough frustration in my own life without adding to it! So what, I get a lot of posts with cute dogs and cats, and horses. they make me feel good!
Mary

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Laura Velez via Groups.Io <lgvelez@...> wrote:
I agree. There is a specific group for one of my Janomes where I learn a lot and share what I can. Yesterday I went through my list of FB groups and quit (not just unfollowed) quite a few that had become offensive. That action shortened my time on FB, and made my time there more productive. It’s also my way with keeping up with my daughter, my 2 grandkids, my two nieces, and old friends. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 3:30 PM, Linda M Robertson <lindamrobertson7@...> wrote:

I have found most of the sewing/quilting/embroidery groups on FB to be very helpful, with quick responses. 

Linda 


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2018, at 3:05 PM, Ceil J <cjancola@...> wrote:

I have no intention of defending either Facebook or its founder for what they do and what they have done.  Some of the sites they allow have the most awful and dreadful things posted on them.  As a tool for communicating with others in the world of sewing, embroidery, and other crafts, I have found it to be a wonderful place.  I'm not suggesting that all would be comfortable doing this but many of us are enjoying it and benefiting from the friends we meet there.  What goes on there is more of a conversation among friends.  If I had posted what I posted in this group the other day, likely someone would have questioned what I meant and let me know that they disagreed.  When I explained what I meant, that would have been the end of it.  The air is cleared quickly or you move on.  I did receive some supportive private emails from some members of this group and I thank them but that would not have been necessary on Facebook as the situation would not have evolved as it did.  The people on Facebook are usually gracious, but yes some do say "Google it" instead of being helpful.  Citing pages in the manual is one way to help others learn that information is available to them.
Facebook certainly has a lot to answer for, and it's sad that it has become a platform for many terrible things but there are some wonderful people there having nice conversations that they could not have if it were not for that platform.  If there is a question about something, you can answer, ignore it, or choose to follow the post without answering to see what is said.  It can easily swallow up great blocks of time, however and some can become addicted to seeing how many "likes" they get for a particular idea, picture, or whatever.  For the careful user it can be a great place.  It is also strange to me that my daughter and grandchildren seldom post on Facebook anymore as they find it "old fashioned"!  The world certainly can change quickly.