When buying a 15000


Cat - N
 

When you go to buy a 15000, is there a proper way to secure a 'better' offer on it than simply MSRP?  I see the 15000's have sold/are being offered on eBay with full warranty at times for a lot less, and I am not particular if the machine is a demo with a couple hours on it as long as it is unregistered for warranty...nor am I in a giant hurry to get one...though that is a very exciting though!  I see them offered in UK with shipping to the USA available and including MBX 4.5...which I also want...for a lot less than the dealer closest to me offered me for price on just the machine, but I don't know if prices on a 15000 are ever 'price matched' or 'negotiated' either. 

I also do not want to harm the closest dealer, or 'anger' that dealer further, since I already did not acquire my used 11000 through their shop, and they have not seemed too cooperative with me since then.  But, it has always been my habit to first shop for product, then for price and I started shopping for product (my 15000) last fall.  I am a terrible haggler, and have no idea how to approach looking for a 'fair' price, since I would not be able to use lessons, while working, and wouldn't want to be toting the machine around anyway...to easy to hurt it in the process.

I was going to just 'bite the bullet' and pay full MSRP, but...

Should I try to find shows (no idea how to do this either) somewhere to see what 'show price' might be offered?  Should I take a day trip to a larger city where they might even have one in stock I can tote a 15000 home with me that day?  If I do, do you suppose I will see a flaming bridge between my house and the local dealer in my rear view mirror?

I would welcome advice of any kind.  Thanks.

- Cat

Hoping to post a reply before the next Yahoo outage, Jim says:
I've been on all sides of this situation, as a former dealer. As a dealer it was a constant struggle to price our machines with enough profit to pay several thousand dollars a month in rent, while competing dealers were constantly offering lower prices with no training or service. It is common knowledge in our market that the best prices are offered at the State Fair and national Quilt Shows, the largest of which is in Houston. Every year we would have new owners coming in with machines they bought at one of these events, asking us to teach them how to use them. One competing dealer even told his State Fair customers that they could get free classes from any Janome dealer. When we refused *WE* became the bad guy.

So here's how it goes. Machines are nearly always MUCH cheaper at shows. Why? First, the dealer doing the show often is not from the area where the show is held. She is brought in from some other place, because she sells a lot of machines and Janome wants to sell a lot of machines at that show. They ship a lot of them in for classes and they don't want to ship them back. Janome makes a normal profit on each machine, although they may drop the price to the dealer slightly. The dealer will sell the machines for a much lower profit than normal, because her store back in West Undershirt is doing business as usual. She only needs to make enough to pay her travel expenses *AND* every machine she sells gets her closer to winning the big Janome incentive trip. Having been on a number of these trips, I can tell you that dealers will do just about anything to win one. One thing the dealer at the show can be pretty certain of is that she will not have to honor any promises made at the show, nor will she have to do any training. When the show is over, she's gone!

The local dealers inherit all the non-profit aspects from the show. Customers want training, they want service and help. They were told at the show they could get all that locally, often for free. Trust me, free does not pay the rent, or the employees! So what can the local dealer do? Well they can punish all these new (non)customers by denying them from everything. They can try to compete by offering prices as low as those at the show, or lower. In doing that they have to forego anything other than the absolute minimal level of service. Some will get surly and treat (non)customers rudely. We tried to suck it up and treat everyone fairly, even offering classes for a fee to those who bought elsewhere. This usually made them angry.

To understand what it's like for the local dealer imagine this scenario. Your next door neighbor says "Let's go to dinner Friday night." You agree. They show up at your house and use your kitchen to cook dinner. They eat off your china on your table, then leave you with the mess, after asking you for containers to take the leftovers home in.

To answer your question, you can ALWAYS ask for a better deal than MSRP. I don't think we ever sold a single machine for full MSRP, even when trade-ins were involved. However you need to come up with an offer that is fair. If MSRP is $12,000, don't expect the dealer to be civil if you offer $5,000. Often you can get a better deal by asking for extras. For example, if the price is $12,000 ask if they would include $1,000 worth of software and 6 months of classes. We used to offer anywhere from 1 to 3 years of free service, depending on the model. We put it in writing. Ask for that. You are getting more value for your money, without taking money back out of the dealer's pocket.

If all of your local dealers are equally bad and you would rather just get the best possible price, then a show special may be the way to go. However you should ask the seller about mail-in service at their expense. Or ask them who is a local dealer that will take care of their needs - then call that dealer to confirm before buying.

With regard to buying a machine out of the US - DO NOT DO THIS! First, machines sold in any country other than the US and Canada cannot even be plugged in to our power system. You would need extra parts and adapters to make it work. Second, machines sold in any other country are NOT guaranteed by Janome America. Buy a machine in UK and you'll have to send it back to UK for any needed service.

Sorry for the length of this post - even 4+ years after closing, some of the scars are still fresh. We lost a LOT of business to shows. The rent and our staff always got paid, even when we didn't.


Janet
 

I agree that buying locally is best even if you pay a higher price.   These machines can be so complicated and are so expensive having a good local resource is worth the money.  I think it is really important to make sure your local dealer knows how to trouble shoot and repair the machine though.  They should have a good customer service reputation Do as much research on the dealer as you do one the machine.   I know that we have quilt guild shows in our community and the local shops will have deals on machine at the shows.   In addition they will have "events" and have special pricing.    Janet




Janet


On Dec 9, 2015, at 2:38 PM, 'navillusc@...' navillusc@... [janome12000] <janome12000@...> wrote:

 

When you go to buy a 15000, is there a proper way to secure a 'better' offer on it than simply MSRP?  I see the 15000's have sold/are being offered on eBay with full warranty at times for a lot less, and I am not particular if the machine is a demo with a couple hours on it as long as it is unregistered for warranty...nor am I in a giant hurry to get one...though that is a very exciting though!  I see them offered in UK with shipping to the USA available and including MBX 4.5...which I also want...for a lot less than the dealer closest to me offered me for price on just the machine, but I don't know if prices on a 15000 are ever 'price matched' or 'negotiated' either. 

I also do not want to harm the closest dealer, or 'anger' that dealer further, since I already did not acquire my used 11000 through their shop, and they have not seemed too cooperative with me since then.  But, it has always been my habit to first shop for product, then for price and I started shopping for product (my 15000) last fall.  I am a terrible haggler, and have no idea how to approach looking for a 'fair' price, since I would not be able to use lessons, while working, and wouldn't want to be toting the machine around anyway...to easy to hurt it in the process.

I was going to just 'bite the bullet' and pay full MSRP, but...

Should I try to find shows (no idea how to do this either) somewhere to see what 'show price' might be offered?  Should I take a day trip to a larger city where they might even have one in stock I can tote a 15000 home with me that day?  If I do, do you suppose I will see a flaming bridge between my house and the local dealer in my rear view mirror?

I would welcome advice of any kind.  Thanks.

- Cat

Hoping to post a reply before the next Yahoo outage, Jim says:
I've been on all sides of this situation, as a former dealer. As a dealer it was a constant struggle to price our machines with enough profit to pay several thousand dollars a month in rent, while competing dealers were constantly offering lower prices with no training or service. It is common knowledge in our market that the best prices are offered at the State Fair and national Quilt Shows, the largest of which is in Houston. Every year we would have new owners coming in with machines they bought at one of these events, asking us to teach them how to use them. One competing dealer even told his State Fair customers that they could get free classes from any Janome dealer. When we refused *WE* became the bad guy.

So here's how it goes. Machines are nearly always MUCH cheaper at shows. Why? First, the dealer doing the show often is not from the area where the show is held. She is brought in from some other place, because she sells a lot of machines and Janome wants to sell a lot of machines at that show. They ship a lot of them in for classes and they don't want to ship them back. Janome makes a normal profit on each machine, although they may drop the price to the dealer slightly. The dealer will sell the machines for a much lower profit than normal, because her store back in West Undershirt is doing business as usual. She only needs to make enough to pay her travel expenses *AND* every machine she sells gets her closer to winning the big Janome incentive trip. Having been on a number of these trips, I can tell you that dealers will do just about anything to win one. One thing the dealer at the show can be pretty certain of is that she will not have to honor any promises made at the show, nor will she have to do any training. When the show is over, she's gone!

The local dealers inherit all the non-profit aspects from the show. Customers want training, they want service and help. They were told at the show they could get all that locally, often for free. Trust me, free does not pay the rent, or the employees! So what can the local dealer do? Well they can punish all these new (non)customers by denying them from everything. They can try to compete by offering prices as low as those at the show, or lower. In doing that they have to forego anything other than the absolute minimal level of service. Some will get surly and treat (non)customers rudely. We tried to suck it up and treat everyone fairly, even offering classes for a fee to those who bought elsewhere. This usually made them angry.

To understand what it's like for the local dealer imagine this scenario. Your next door neighbor says "Let's go to dinner Friday night." You agree. They show up at your house and use your kitchen to cook dinner. They eat off your china on your table, then leave you with the mess, after asking you for containers to take the leftovers home in.

To answer your question, you can ALWAYS ask for a better deal than MSRP. I don't think we ever sold a single machine for full MSRP, even when trade-ins were involved. However you need to come up with an offer that is fair. If MSRP is $12,000, don't expect the dealer to be civil if you offer $5,000. Often you can get a better deal by asking for extras. For example, if the price is $12,000 ask if they would include $1,000 worth of software and 6 months of classes. We used to offer anywhere from 1 to 3 years of free service, depending on the model. We put it in writing. Ask for that. You are getting more value for your money, without taking money back out of the dealer's pocket.

If all of your local dealers are equally bad and you would rather just get the best possible price, then a show special may be the way to go. However you should ask the seller about mail-in service at their expense. Or ask them who is a local dealer that will take care of their needs - then call that dealer to confirm before buying.

With regard to buying a machine out of the US - DO NOT DO THIS! First, machines sold in any country other than the US and Canada cannot even be plugged in to our power system. You would need extra parts and adapters to make it work. Second, machines sold in any other country are NOT guaranteed by Janome America. Buy a machine in UK and you'll have to send it back to UK for any needed service.

Sorry for the length of this post - even 4+ years after closing, some of the scars are still fresh. We lost a LOT of business to shows. The rent and our staff always got paid, even when we didn't.


maggie cooper
 

Cat, when you buy a machine you are looking for two things, a reliable machine, a very reliable dealer. I live in UK, and we can't haggle for lower prices, plus any deals are via Janome UK not the dealership.


E Bay can be a road to disaster or an honest dealer, but you wont know until a/ your machine never arrives, there are plenty of E bay buyers who have lost money buying via E bay.   B/it arrives but is damaged in transit and you get no help from the vendor despite numerous e mails, looking for redress from e bay but discovering the vendor has moved on. C/ it's a legit dealer but you have to pay carriage to get it serviced. Any monies you think you have saved soon disappear in carriage fees.


Buying from UK, UK or Europe to import to the USA isn't a good idea, why, UK and Europe operate a different electricity system to America, plus Janome Tokyo has very strict rules regards cross border sales, they are not allowed. Each country has it's own laws governing warranties, those become null and void outside of the country they were purchased in. I have had American citizens posted to England contact me because Janome UK won't service their Janome USA machines, they usually say, 'But Janome warranties are global'  well under American law global applies only to the boundaries of the United States and any American military bases via their commissaries outside of the US. Janome does not offer 'International' warranties, they would have to meet all the rules and regulations in every country in the world and believe me that would be real mares nest, it's far too complicated these days. I've also been asked 'how would Janome USA or UK know my machine was purchased cross border, to which I reply 'the same way customs and excise know, each territory has it's own series of letters imprinted on the serial number plate' That way the customs and excise department can levy import duties on all cross border purchases when imported.  So again any savings you think you are getting would quickly disappear. The same goes for the software,


Here in UK if a machine is purchased at a show, the buyer is asked for the local dealership and the dealer receives any commission on the sale. That dealer also honours the warranty, they aren't required to offer free lessons instead Janome UK HQ provides a day of training for the TOL machines to the purchaser . The machines purchased at shows usually get despatched to the chosen dealer or the purchaser direct, and show deals are identical to promos generated by Janome UK for dealers to offer to their customers. A much fairer system for both dealers and purchasers.


I started this response by saying you are looking for two things, a reliable machine and a reliable dealer, why deny a dealer an income, they have all the same basic needs as their customers. Bills to pay, mortgages to meet, taxes to pay, and with any luck a little disposable income for the odd luxury.  I would tell you make a friend of your dealer, if you don't and like many others you buy cheap elsewhere you may find you no longer have a local dealer to turn to. Running a business is expensive, why do so many bricks and mortar businesses go out of business these days, because folks don't support them.

No I'm not a dealer, just a Janome user who is saddened to see so many little business's go under because folks don't support them.

Maggie Cooper in UK



---In janome12000@..., <navillusc@...> wrote :

When you go to buy a 15000, is there a proper way to secure a 'better' offer on it than simply MSRP?  I see the 15000's have sold/are being offered on eBay with full warranty at times for a lot less, and I am not particular if the machine is a demo with a couple hours on it as long as it is unregistered for warranty...nor am I in a giant hurry to get one...though that is a very exciting though!  I see them offered in UK with shipping to the USA available and including MBX 4.5...which I also want...for a lot less than the dealer closest to me offered me for price on just the machine, but I don't know if prices on a 15000 are ever 'price matched' or 'negotiated' either. 

I also do not want to harm the closest dealer, or 'anger' that dealer further, since I already did not acquire my used 11000 through their shop, and they have not seemed too cooperative with me since then.  But, it has always been my habit to first shop for product, then for price and I started shopping for product (my 15000) last fall.  I am a terrible haggler, and have no idea how to approach looking for a 'fair' price, since I would not be able to use lessons, while working, and wouldn't want to be toting the machine around anyway...to easy to hurt it in the process.

I was going to just 'bite the bullet' and pay full MSRP, but...

Should I try to find shows (no idea how to do this either) somewhere to see what 'show price' might be offered?  Should I take a day trip to a larger city where they might even have one in stock I can tote a 15000 home with me that day?  If I do, do you suppose I will see a flaming bridge between my house and the local dealer in my rear view mirror?

I would welcome advice of any kind.  Thanks.

- Cat

Hoping to post a reply before the next Yahoo outage, Jim says:
I've been on all sides of this situation, as a former dealer. As a dealer it was a constant struggle to price our machines with enough profit to pay several thousand dollars a month in rent, while competing dealers were constantly offering lower prices with no training or service. It is common knowledge in our market that the best prices are offered at the State Fair and national Quilt Shows, the largest of which is in Houston. Every year we would have new owners coming in with machines they bought at one of these events, asking us to teach them how to use them. One competing dealer even told his State Fair customers that they could get free classes from any Janome dealer. When we refused *WE* became the bad guy.

So here's how it goes. Machines are nearly always MUCH cheaper at shows. Why? First, the dealer doing the show often is not from the area where the show is held. She is brought in from some other place, because she sells a lot of machines and Janome wants to sell a lot of machines at that show. They ship a lot of them in for classes and they don't want to ship them back. Janome makes a normal profit on each machine, although they may drop the price to the dealer slightly. The dealer will sell the machines for a much lower profit than normal, because her store back in West Undershirt is doing business as usual. She only needs to make enough to pay her travel expenses *AND* every machine she sells gets her closer to winning the big Janome incentive trip. Having been on a number of these trips, I can tell you that dealers will do just about anything to win one. One thing the dealer at the show can be pretty certain of is that she will not have to honor any promises made at the show, nor will she have to do any training. When the show is over, she's gone!

The local dealers inherit all the non-profit aspects from the show. Customers want training, they want service and help. They were told at the show they could get all that locally, often for free. Trust me, free does not pay the rent, or the employees! So what can the local dealer do? Well they can punish all these new (non)customers by denying them from everything. They can try to compete by offering prices as low as those at the show, or lower. In doing that they have to forego anything other than the absolute minimal level of service. Some will get surly and treat (non)customers rudely. We tried to suck it up and treat everyone fairly, even offering classes for a fee to those who bought elsewhere. This usually made them angry.

To understand what it's like for the local dealer imagine this scenario. Your next door neighbor says "Let's go to dinner Friday night." You agree. They show up at your house and use your kitchen to cook dinner. They eat off your china on your table, then leave you with the mess, after asking you for containers to take the leftovers home in.

To answer your question, you can ALWAYS ask for a better deal than MSRP. I don't think we ever sold a single machine for full MSRP, even when trade-ins were involved. However you need to come up with an offer that is fair. If MSRP is $12,000, don't expect the dealer to be civil if you offer $5,000. Often you can get a better deal by asking for extras. For example, if the price is $12,000 ask if they would include $1,000 worth of software and 6 months of classes. We used to offer anywhere from 1 to 3 years of free service, depending on the model. We put it in writing. Ask for that. You are getting more value for your money, without taking money back out of the dealer's pocket.

If all of your local dealers are equally bad and you would rather just get the best possible price, then a show special may be the way to go. However you should ask the seller about mail-in service at their expense. Or ask them who is a local dealer that will take care of their needs - then call that dealer to confirm before buying.

With regard to buying a machine out of the US - DO NOT DO THIS! First, machines sold in any country other than the US and Canada cannot even be plugged in to our power system. You would need extra parts and adapters to make it work. Second, machines sold in any other country are NOT guaranteed by Janome America. Buy a machine in UK and you'll have to send it back to UK for any needed service.

Sorry for the length of this post - even 4+ years after closing, some of the scars are still fresh. We lost a LOT of business to shows. The rent and our staff always got paid, even when we didn't.


Anne Parker
 

Jim

When I read you saying you can't plug a UK machine into the US power system - or vice versa - without extra parts and adaptors (appreciate you would have to change the plug) that confused me.

I'm sure I had read in all the blurb that they were universal power and I had assumed there was some technology inside to enable you to take it anywhere - within reason.  The same as I do my universal travelling kettle!

I'm sure I had a conversation with someone who was doing exactly that - taking it between US and UK without any issue.  I'm not sure it was the 15000 but I think another Janome machine.  I don't recollect her mentioning she had to do anything special.

I appreciate of course the 'oldies' need all the adaptors and parts etc - just thought things had changed over the last few years.

 

Anne
www.sewingtales.wordpress.com

https://www.flickr.com/photos/94302460@N03/sets/

"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance". Anon

With bulbs growing ever dimmer, Jim says:
It's true that the high end Janome models use a type of power supply that works on all voltages. Mid line and low end machines do not. However the plugs used in the US are very different from UK, and if you did import a machine from the UK to the US you would need an adapter to plug it in or a new cord. The bigger issues are warranty (There is none when sold out of country) and Customs. When importing something of significant value, such as a top line machine, there can be substantial duty fees. Years ago when we brought in a shipment of rulers from Australia we were notified by the carrier (UPS) that we had to pay the duty fees of several hundred dollars before they would deliver them.
 


Jim Stutsman
 

Diane has reminded me of a couple points that I left out. First off, when a LOCAL dealer does a show they will nearly always discount the machines used in classes because they can no longer be sold as new. We did this at the shows we sponsored, and everyone was better for it. Second, a dealer will usually sell floor models for less, again because of use. We tried to switch out our floor models every couple of months so they would still be "fresh". In both of these cases the machines are fully guaranteed because you, the purchaser, are the original owner.


Judi Rutherford
 

Cat & Jim,


I did buy my 15000 at the Houston Quilt show last year but before I went to Houston I gathered this information.


Did my local shop offer actual classes or just 1 on 1 training sessions with the sales staff at the shop. If classes do you have to haul your own machine? An advantage to sales staff 1on 1 is you do not bring your machine as you train on the floor model. I asked the dealer if he let people pay for training sessions if they moved in from out of state. I also asked about machine servicing. Was it on site? Did he send machines out? What were turn around times etc. I learned this dealership did 1 on 1 training with sales staff where you arranged 2 hour sessions at your convenience and when someone moved into town he worked with them. The disadvantage with the training 1 on 1 was the sales staff had to assist other customers if they were the only 1 working at the time you were in.


At the show I looked at lost of machines and determined I still wanted the 15000. The show offer was a good price so I called the local Janome dealer and told him I was at Houston looking at machines and asked him what his best price would be. He offered me a very good price so I asked him to total with taxes, and cost of 3- 2 hour training sessions. I looked at all the $$$ involved for all options. When I took the show price with free shipping to my door and no sales tax and compared it to the local shop with sales tax and I had to get the machine home from the dealer I bought the machine at the show. The sales tax savings was significant and definitely affected the decision.


1 more question - if there were 2 dealers in your area would you even do business the one you mention in your post? It sounds like it is not a friendly place on a good day so perhaps you might see if there is another dealer even if they are a bit further away. I encourage everyone that buys a machine to like the dealer first then look to buy. A good dealer is very important because at these prices we are not just dating these machines we are marrying them.


Good luck with your decision! You will love the 15000.


Judi


cas <cas@...>
 

Sometimes a local dealer will host a show and be involved in the sales of the machine.  For example, our local dealer hosted a Jenny Haskins Embroidery event and then discounted the machines used at the event.  You went home with the machine you used that day.  BUT, the local dealer handled the warranty, free classes, etc.  They might not make as much money on the machine, but they hope to sell you extra feet,  stabilizer, classes, etc.   Also, sometimes a local dealer will match the price you’ve found elsewhere, even online prices -- as long as the company with the lower price also has a walk-in store.  If your local dealer is small they can’t match the deep discounts a big store can, but like Jim said maybe they can offer software or additional warranty or other add-on products.
 
I’m really surprised at the huge difference in prices!  For sure it may be worth a trip to save $3000 or more.


Patricia Ward
 

Well I have to add my few dollars to this....
 
When the 10000 was out I had a different dealer who really really really screwed up my machine.  He was a Bernina and a Janome dealer ( well his wife was) and he was an engineer for the state full time.  He oiled my machine so much when I had it there for service that I was cleaning oil off my hands, the parts, the hoops .. oil everywhere and I couldn't even sell it for crude!   Suddenly I would be embroidering and would get a clunk and the hoop would jump.  An experienced dealer told me that it sounded like lint caked onto the stepping motor gears and it would break loose...  so I started hunting another dealer.

I called the dealer I now have and asked him if he would take me as a customer.  I knew he had been in business quite a long time and some of the gals in my quilting group spoke highly of him and his service technician.  He was an hour away compared to the 35 min before...   he asked me if I bought my machine on the internet and I told him no and what happened.  He said yes, he would take me as a customer.

After taking the machine to him, he and his service technician who has the walls lined with the Janome training certificates diagnosed my machine and it was what the other experienced far away dealer had told me....  and this dealer said they could take it apart but the labor would be extensive and costly.   The 11K was due to come out in a few weeks so I waited and went to his grand announcement of it.. and purchased it right on the spot.  I let my friend who lived 4 hours away take the first one home and I waited a week for him to get me one.  He gave me a very fair deal on the 10 K that needed work and I bought the 11K...   I have never looked back; never even thought of a different dealer...  he is my dealer and I buy my machines from him, get them serviced by him, and purchase my accessories from him.  He offers clubs, classes,  and demos... it is what a person wants in a dealer. I realize that I am very fortunate.

My point I am trying to make is that if you find a dealer stick with them.  And sometimes you have to hunt or drive a distance but find one and stay with them.  They get to know you, you know them, and it is a good working relationship.  I know my dealer treats me very fairly and but I also respect that he has overhead, wages to pay and a family to support so his prices may be a few dollars more than the discount sell all store or a show........BUT if I should have a problem as I did with the embroidery unit on my 15000 right after I bought it,  no excuses!.. "bring it down, Pat, and let us look at it" is what I was told.  They could not figure out the problem but I came home with the demo unit and they tested it on my machine before I left the store.  Now that is good service! 

Loyalty has its rewards in service and education.

Pat in MD

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:54 PM, 'cas' cas@... [janome12000] <janome12000@...> wrote:


Sometimes a local dealer will host a show and be involved in the sales of the machine.  For example, our local dealer hosted a Jenny Haskins Embroidery event and then discounted the machines used at the event.  You went home with the machine you used that day.  BUT, the local dealer handled the warranty, free classes, etc.  They might not make as much money on the machine, but they hope to sell you extra feet,  stabilizer, classes, etc.   Also, sometimes a local dealer will match the price you’ve found elsewhere, even online prices -- as long as the company with the lower price also has a walk-in store.  If your local dealer is small they can’t match the deep discounts a big store can, but like Jim said maybe they can offer software or additional warranty or other add-on products.
 
I’m really surprised at the huge difference in prices!  For sure it may be worth a trip to save $3000 or more.




Cat - N
 

Thank you, Cas.

Yes, and I have seen huge differences in pricing, too.  That's why I was wondering how the price differences happen.  I am not 'plugged in' to know if there are shows or anything anywhere near enough to me that I could attend, and it would have to be a weekend before I could go anyway.

- Cat



Cat - N
 

Thank you so much for the explanation.  I appreciate your insight on this.  I definitely don't want the local businesses harmed...it is hard enough to keep them here, and they were here before me...and I have been here since 1987.  Many other businesses are long gone in much less time. The pricing (and the treatment I received) had me completely confused.  I am thinking about my next step to acquire my 15000 and MBX, but it may have to wait since I just got a new job and have to up and fly out to D.C. in a couple days.

- Cat





J Fraker
 

I understand the dealer's position, but for me, I just couldn't afford that huge price.  I have a 12000 that I bought from a dealer on eBay.  It was a NEW machine; I wouldn't buy a used one off eBay.  I called the dealer and had a long discussion with him.  He was offering Digitizer Jr for free as an incentive to buy the machine.  I asked a ton of questions and then put him off for a few days.  As a result, I got the full MBX for free.  That was a big thing because I really wanted it.  I also used a credit card so that if there were any problems, I'd have a better chance of getting my money back.  When I got my machine, there were several feet missing.  I immediately called the dealer and they sat down on the phone with me to go over what I had gotten and what I hadn't gotten.  I received all the missing pieces within a few days.  I have had Janome machines for years, so I was confident in my ability to use the machine without needing classes and have had no problems in that area.  I have to say my experience was totally positive and I saved a lot of money on the machine.  The dealer also said if I had any problems in the first year I could ship it back to them and it would be repaired free of charge.  I've had it a couple of years and no problems and have since found a local dealer that is very nice and has no problem servicing my machine.  If you choose to go this route, especially on eBay, choose a dealer that has a 100% positive rating and look back at their feedback to see if they have sold other high dollar machines to satisfied customers.  I would definitely buy from this same dealer again.
 






cas <cas@...>
 

You’re welcome Cat,
You can try calling dealers located near you to see if they are sponsoring any events where they provide the machines to sew on.  Mine was a Jenny Haskins event, but last time I looked up “Jenny Haskins Embroidery Event” the pictures looked like they were sewing on Brother machines , so it varies.  Good luck finding a good deal.  That event was held on a weekend.

Cas
 

Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [janome12000] When buying a 15000
 
 

Thank you, Cas.

 
Yes, and I have seen huge differences in pricing, too.  That's why I was wondering how the price differences happen.  I am not 'plugged in' to know if there are shows or anything anywhere near enough to me that I could attend, and it would have to be a weekend before I could go anyway.

- Cat



Cat - N
 

Judi,

First, thank you for the detailed information.  Questions to ask are very important and I had not thought of many of those you mentioned.  No taxes and free shipping to my door I had thought of, and shopping in the evening when the stores are closed is always a plus when you work as many hours as I was working and am about to be working again. 

This dealer was in business before I got here in 1987...but 'I think' under different ownership, and I don't go there much now that I have a bagless vacuum cleaner. They don't sell the beautiful quilting fabrics like the Babylock dealer, so I mostly go there if a machine needs service, or I need something 'Janome' in a hurry because I only have Saturday to get there. 

Maybe I should tell the whole 'dealer' story to properly explain...it's a bit long...but, after my most recent experiences, I 'wish' I didn't feel like going somewhere else, even though it's an hour to the closest one, who was as sweet as pie on the phone with me and I haven't stepped foot in her store, never mind not having bought a thing from her.

I DON'T want harm to come to the dealer...I think that's an awful thing, but I don't want to be treated rudely either because I am using a machine to 'learn' embroidery on that they did not sell me, getting ready to feel comfortable using a 15000.  They rather 'bad mouthed' the 11000 to me, and I upgraded this one from v.2.10 to v.3.10 myself even though I was a super novice at the time. 

Even if I do end up getting the 15000 elsewhere, I would like to feel comfortable going to the dealer for parts and service on all of my machines...most of which is not warranty work, and to buy other products he does sell, and even take classes maybe...after I retire...not sure what the future holds.

It's an 'ethics' issue for me, really, and I am 'torn' because I want a friendly relationship with the dealer...I 'want' to give him my business and keep him here and successful, but also I think there should be a more reasonable price offer than flat out MSRP for only the machine and I don't need most of the things they said the MSRP price covers.

I don't know if that makes sense.

- Cat


Cat - N
 

I completely understand what you are saying, Pat, and that's all I want...a good working relationship...some place I can go that has greater technical expertise than me when I need it.  I am pretty technical, and will go to great lengths to be as self sufficient as possible, but I am very loyal to businesses that you can have that kind of relationship with.  I have had the same hairdresser for about 30 years...she is a dear friend, even though we haven't been in the same boating group for about 25 of those years.   Trouble is, that kind of business relationship can be really hard to find...and I am not sure about the current owner.  I haven't dealt with them much in a very long time, and this guy is NOT the same guy I used to get vac bags from about 25 years ago when I had the vacuum cleaner that they sold the bags for local, so I could get them if I ran out before my order arrived from halfway across the country.

I have to travel to just the D.C. area in a couple days, and hoping to have time to go visit some of the Janome dealers there to see what differences exist.  When I get back to Florida, we are already planning to go to the dealer local to the airport, then to another large city on the way home to talk to those two (2) dealers, too.  We just want to 'experience' what 'other' dealers are like.  I already talked to one (1) of the dealers on the phone and she was nice as could be, answered all my questions, volunteered information how I could check out and adjust the machine myself, said to call her back if I was still having trouble, said she would have a look at it I wanted to bring it to her, said it was a wonderful machine and her students loved that model, where the local deal never even called me back, and very nearly 'bad mouthed' the 11000..they knew I was also looking at the 15000.  It will be nice to meet her in person.

If it turns out that this dealer is not the kind of business I can learn to appreciate, I will make the longer drive for the peace of mind, and a happier relationship.

- Cat



Sue Raabe <susies.stitches@...>
 

Although I have the 12000 and not the 15000, I just wanted wanted to share my experience of buying from a local dealer.  Right after 15000 came out, I contacted my dealer and asked him to put me on a list for a trade in, since I figured plenty of people would would trade up.  I already knew that he stood behind his machines, and that I would get good service.  I also knew that he offered free one on one lessons.  I guess because he needed to display the 15000, he sold me the floor model with less than 50 hours on it.  People come from all over to get machines from him.  His prices are fair, and he does a huge volume of sales.  He seems to always offer extras with the machines.  Considering I always need help learning new machines, it's an ideal solution for me.  My machine came in the original box, with all the accessories and parts in their wrappers.  I would have sworn it was brand new!  I went to an event he put on, and he was offering all kinds of extras with the 15000, which wouldn't have made an impression on me, because I have all the stabilizer, designs and thread than I can ever use, but it was available for anyone who needed it.  I know he has made at least two trips to Japan, but I didn't know they were incentives to dealers.  It's really reassuring to know there's a brick and mortar store whenever I need anything.  If we don't support our local dealers, they won't be there when we need them.   Jim's explanation was very helpful, and made me glad I bought from a reputable dealer.  I purchased a different brand of machine once from a dealer who was offering it at the trade in price.  Since I hadn't paid off my previous one, I bought it there and sold the other one.  He did offer lessons, but all he had was the tiny work area in the back of his shop, on top of his work bench.  After going there once, I paid for anything I needed from my regular dealer, who didn't sell that machine when I got it.  They too usually offered extras with their machines.  The first one I bought there came with a free cabinet.

Buying on e-bay seems risky too.  I know very little about it, and don't know how reliable the seller ratings are.  I know I had a hard time selling a machine there, because I had no seller rating at all.  When it finally sold, the winning bidder never paid me, so I sold it to the next highest bidder for a little less than I wanted, but at least I sold it.  I don't have the energy or patience to jump through hoops anymore!  I'd rather just deal locally, let them make their living, and know they'll be there when I need them.  Sorry for the long post, but I did appreciate Jim's explanations, and wanted to let everyone know that in my opinion, he raised very valid points, and contribute to my machine buying knowledge.  Sue



Cat - N
 

You're very kind, thank you, Cas.  I will check some more...probably not until I get back from D.C., though.  I am not at all knowledgeable who to watch 'in the business' for things like this, so I appreciate the info.

I did find some kind of 'expose' (?) a little while back that is in 2016...maybe April...I forget, but it wasn't open for registration to attend yet, and not a lot of info about it.  I don't remember what it was, but I signed up to get an email notice when registration opens.  It is in Orlando, I think...it's a drive, but not a bad day trip. 

I think I would like to have the 15000 before April, since that is when my new little grandson plans on making his grand entrance.  I already have all this lovely fabric to sew up for him, and, since I expected the 11000 to be working by now and it is still not quite right, I am starting to 'desperately' want a machine I can turn on, sit down and sew on, and not fear 'the clack of project death' and thread mess under the needle plate, and having to buy yet another new bobbin case.   This is part of my quandry...it would be nice to have technical assistance for the new machine close by, if needed, but what if not even MSRP will 'buy his love' when the machine needs service?  I already feel 'weird' about driving down there to buy a new bobbin case for the 11000, so I have a couple spares in a 'shopping cart' on the internet.

I have struggled through every embroidery project...literally holding my finger over the START/STOP button, listening for any strange sound...interesting trying to learn machine embroidery and get confident that you are 'getting it' under these circumstances.  Since I eventually I figured out that the clear bobbin cover plate was responsible for the Kenmore's thread nesting issue...which I 'had' thought was tension...I have now taped the cover down tight on the 11000 until I finish the order which includes a couple replacement covers I put in a 'shopping cart' on the internet...LOL

- Cat



Cat - N
 

I don't go there often, but I have seen several dealers on eBay.  That surprised me at first, but it makes sense.  It is another sales outlet and it gets a lot of traffic.

It sounds like you got a really good deal.  I am very happy for you, and I will definitely take your advice seriously.  Thank you.

- Cat



-----Original Message-----
From: J Fraker frakersfunnyfarm@... [janome12000]
To: janome12000
Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:24 pm
Subject: Re: [janome12000] Re: When buying a 15000

 
I understand the dealer's position, but for me, I just couldn't afford that huge price.  I have a 12000 that I bought from a dealer on eBay.  It was a NEW machine; I wouldn't buy a used one off eBay.  I called the dealer and had a long discussion with him.  He was offering Digitizer Jr for free as an incentive to buy the machine.  I asked a ton of questions and then put him off for a few days.  As a result, I got the full MBX for free.  That was a big thing because I really wanted it.  I also used a credit card so that if there were any problems, I'd have a better chance of getting my money back.  When I got my machine, there were several feet missing.  I immediately called the dealer and they sat down on the phone with me to go over what I had gotten and what I hadn't gotten.  I received all the missing pieces within a few days.  I have had Janome machines for years, so I was confident in my ability to use the machine without needing classes and have had no problems in that area.  I have to say my experience was totally positive and I saved a lot of money on the machine.  The dealer also said if I had any problems in the first year I could ship it back to them and it would be repaired free of charge.  I've had it a couple of years and no problems and have since found a local dealer that is very nice and has no problem servicing my machine.  If you choose to go this route, especially on eBay, choose a dealer that has a 100% positive rating and look back at their feedback to see if they have sold other high dollar machines to satisfied customers.  I would defi nitely buy from this same dealer again.
 






Kaye Lessard
 

I do an embroidery class for my dealer - it is a day away for us ladies!! I have learned so much froM all!
We have had a few friends of some ladies buy a machine or cutter at the Houston show - then when they had problems right away called them and only was told to call Janome for help!!! One lady sent her machine to be repaired and didn't get it back for a year!!! Was told they had to send it to Japan !! Yea that doesn't happen!!
So this year some ladies ordered the 500e and got them a few days before show
Turned out she was $100 more than show!!! But the ladies didn't care because they know they have a great dealer that will help them!!
Service does matter!
Also Janome tells dealers they have to sell for Mrsp price at beginning- but they do nothing to dealers who don't !! So now my dealer has lowered her prices so she can be competitive but still make a living!!!
Kaye in la




Sent from my iPhone


Anne Parker
 

In UK when you buy from a show you have to nominate a local dealer as 'your dealer'.  That dealer then gets the commission for the sale even though you haven't bought from them and they are committed to servicing your machine if they accept the commission.

I do think the commission is slightly less for the dealer this way though.  As it happens I have never had to visit my dealer for the 15000 in the 14 months I've had the machine - or even call them for help. They don't do specific classes for the 15000 though are happy to answer queries.  I do take my other electronic and computerized machines to them if they need a service or a fix that I can't do, so they do get my custom that way. 

I always recommend them to anyone that asks where to go as I have had such good service in the 4 years I have been using them. - they are 17miles away and I use them in preference to one just 3 miles away who is absolute rubbish.  Always trying to get you to buy a new machine, and when he 'repairs' your old one there seems to be more wrong with it than when you took it in.

On the subject of service - are there any guidelines on when to get a perfectly good running machine serviced?  I don't like the 'years' timeframe as it depends how much you've used your machine what state it is in - so anyone any idea of how many hours actually stitching are ok before a service is recommended?  I have a 5 year warantee on my machine but can't see anywhere where it tells me I need to get it serviced.



Anne
www.sewingtales.wordpress.com

https://www.flickr.com/photos/94302460@N03/sets/

"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance". Anon

 Shuddering at the thought of how many actual hours his body has existed, Jim says:
Owners of the 15000 have an advantage as they can see the actual hours of sewing on the help (?) screen of the machine. A big factor beyond actual sewing time is owner care. If you never remove the bobbin case for cleaning then I would recommend a service at 100-200 hours of sewing. Regular cleaning can extend that to 300-500 hours. Of course whenever things are not working correctly it merits a trip to the dealer, especially if the errant behavior follows a broken needle or other accident.


Cat - N
 

Thank you for the information.  It sounds great to do the 'sew-in' adventure, and I will likely do it at some point.  It would be nice to get to know other people who like to do the same things as you and share tips, tricks, and photos.

- Cat



-----Original Message-----
From: Kaye Lessard ekay50@... [janome12000]
To: janome12000
Sent: Fri, Dec 11, 2015 8:08 am
Subject: [janome12000] Re: When buying a 15000

 
I do an embroidery class for my dealer - it is a day away for us ladies!! I have learned so much froM all!
We have had a few friends of some ladies buy a machine or cutter at the Houston show - then when they had problems right away called them and only was told to call Janome for help!!! One lady sent her machine to be repaired and didn't get it back for a year!!! Was told they had to send it to Japan !! Yea that doesn't happen!!
So this year some ladies ordered the 500e and got them a few days before show
Turned out she was $100 more than show!!! But the ladies didn't care because they know they have a great dealer that will help them!!
Service does matter!
Also Janome tells dealers they have to sell for Mrsp price at beginning- but they do nothing to dealers who don't !! So now my dealer has lowered her prices so she can be competitive but still make a living!!!
Kaye in la

Sent from my iPhone