Problems with embroidering wider satin stitches


Pinguin
 

Hello,

today I was embroidering a design and when it reached a part with 7 mm wide satin stitches, the machine cut the thread and paused (without finishing the colour).
When I continued it made one stitch and cut the thread again. And again etc.

I forwarded to a part with smaller stitches and then it continued. This happened again in another part with wider stitches (7-9 mm, not super wide)

Has anyone experienced this before and what can I do about it (apart from bringing the design in my software and shorten the stitches)

Thanks for any input,
Gerda


Jim_Stutsman <jim@...>
 

Satin stitches can be just over 12mm wide before they become jump stitches, so it doesn't seem like the machine is treating them as jumps. When it stopped after cutting, was there a message? Was this a design from someone else, or did you create it in MBX? What are the settings in your machine for Jump cutting? There might be a bug in the machine software that strikes when certain combinations occur. If you can email me the design (jim@onlinesewing.com) we can try it in our machine to see what happens. If it is a bug, I will submit it to Janome.

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "pinguin60@..." <pinguin60@...> wrote:

Hello,

today I was embroidering a design and when it reached a part with 7 mm
wide satin stitches, the machine cut the thread and paused (without
finishing the colour).
When I continued it made one stitch and cut the thread again. And again etc.

I forwarded to a part with smaller stitches and then it continued. This
happened again in another part with wider stitches (7-9 mm, not super wide)

Has anyone experienced this before and what can I do about it (apart
from bringing the design in my software and shorten the stitches)

Thanks for any input,
Gerda


Sue Sweet
 

What about the jump stitch setting ? Could this have any bearing on the machine’s behaviour ?
Sue
 

Sent: Wednesday, 27 March 2013 5:39 AM
Subject: [janome12000] Re: Problems with embroidering wider satin stitches
 
 

Satin stitches can be just over 12mm wide before they become jump stitches, so it doesn't seem like the machine is treating them as jumps. When it stopped after cutting, was there a message? Was this a design from someone else, or did you create it in MBX? What are the settings in your machine for Jump cutting? There might be a bug in the machine software that strikes when certain combinations occur. If you can email me the design (mailto:jim%40onlinesewing.com) we can try it in our machine to see what happens. If it is a bug, I will submit it to Janome.

--- In mailto:janome12000%40yahoogroups.com, "pinguin60@..." wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> today I was embroidering a design and when it reached a part with 7 mm
> wide satin stitches, the machine cut the thread and paused (without
> finishing the colour).
> When I continued it made one stitch and cut the thread again. And again etc.
>
> I


sandy k
 

That happened to my friend when I was at the store. They had no idea what was going on. 

Sent from my iPad Magnolia Springs Quilts

On Mar 26, 2013, at 2:09 PM, "Jim_Stutsman" <jim@...> wrote:

 

Satin stitches can be just over 12mm wide before they become jump stitches, so it doesn't seem like the machine is treating them as jumps. When it stopped after cutting, was there a message? Was this a design from someone else, or did you create it in MBX? What are the settings in your machine for Jump cutting? There might be a bug in the machine software that strikes when certain combinations occur. If you can email me the design (jim@...) we can try it in our machine to see what happens. If it is a bug, I will submit it to Janome.

--- In janome12000@..., "pinguin60@..." wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> today I was embroidering a design and when it reached a part with 7 mm
> wide satin stitches, the machine cut the thread and paused (without
> finishing the colour).
> When I continued it made one stitch and cut the thread again. And again etc.
>
> I forwarded to a part with smaller stitches and then it continued. This
> happened again in another part with wider stitches (7-9 mm, not super wide)
>
> Has anyone experienced this before and what can I do about it (apart
> from bringing the design in my software and shorten the stitches)
>
> Thanks for any input,
> Gerda
>


hesterj19@att.net
 

I had the same problem with a design I bought from Embroidery.com a couple of years ago on my 11000---I thought something was horribly wrong with my machine and after my dealer spent a lot of time looking at it, and the design, he figured out it was the satin stitch in the design was so wide, my machine was treating it like a jump stitch.  I think my dealer told me to turn off the jump stitch cutter when I was doing that design, and then it stitched out ok.  I think, though, the design itself wasn't digitized well, or it wouldn't have had those long satin stitches in it.  I did write Embroidery.com about the design, because I also had some problems with the outline stitches, and they told me that I obviously wasn't stabilizing correctly and there was nothing wrong with the design!  So, I don't buy from them anymore.
 
Ann


Pinguin
 

Hello Ann,
thanks.
My machine is at the dealer at the moment, I also had some thread issues he is looking into.

I will suggest to him to turn of the jump stitch cutter and see if thats solves the problems. The stitches are not that long though, the longest is 9 mm. So well in the 12 mm limit.

Gerda

Op 27-03-13 12:56, james hester schreef:

 

I had the same problem with a design I bought from Embroidery.com a couple of years ago on my 11000---I thought something was horribly wrong with my machine and after my dealer spent a lot of time looking at it, and the design, he figured out it was the satin stitch in the design was so wide, my machine was treating it like a jump stitch.  I think my dealer told me to turn off the jump stitch cutter when I was doing that design, and then it stitched out ok.  I think, though, the design itself wasn't digitized well, or it wouldn't have had those long satin stitches in it.  I did write Embroidery.com about the design, because I also had some problems with the outline stitches, and they told me that I obviously wasn't stabilizing correctly and there was nothing wrong with the design!  So, I don't buy from them anymore.
 
Ann



Pinguin
 

Thanks Jim.

My machine is at the dealer at the moment, so he can look into the thread issues as well.

And it happened during a workshop at my dealer's shop.

The other brand machines (husqvarna and pfaff) did fine and he recognized it as a Janome issue. He is going to look into it and he also has the stick with the design so I can't send it right now.

If he finds a solution, I post it here. Otherwise I get back to you.

You asked about de message, the machine said: paused on top of the screen.

Gerda


Op 26-03-13 20:09, Jim_Stutsman schreef:

 

Satin stitches can be just over 12mm wide before they become jump stitches, so it doesn't seem like the machine is treating them as jumps. When it stopped after cutting, was there a message? Was this a design from someone else, or did you create it in MBX? What are the settings in your machine for Jump cutting? There might be a bug in the machine software that strikes when certain combinations occur. If you can email me the design (jim@...) we can try it in our machine to see what happens. If it is a bug, I will submit it to Janome.

--- In janome12000@..., "pinguin60@..." wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> today I was embroidering a design and when it reached a part with 7 mm
> wide satin stitches, the machine cut the thread and paused (without
> finishing the colour).
> When I continued it made one stitch and cut the thread again. And again etc.
>
> I forwarded to a part with smaller stitches and then it continued. This
> happened again in another part with wider stitches (7-9 mm, not super wide)
>
> Has anyone experienced this before and what can I do about it (apart
> from bringing the design in my software and shorten the stitches)
>
> Thanks for any input,
> Gerda
>



kkrissyb <krissy.b@...>
 

Yes I had the exact same problem with a few designs. I changed the format and tried to embroider them on my commercial machine and the same thing happened with the commercial machine so I put it down to a poorly digitized design

Kris in Aus

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "Jim_Stutsman" <jim@...> wrote:

Satin stitches can be just over 12mm wide before they become jump stitches, so it doesn't seem like the machine is treating them as jumps. When it stopped after cutting, was there a message? Was this a design from someone else, or did you create it in MBX? What are the settings in your machine for Jump cutting? There might be a bug in the machine software that strikes when certain combinations occur. If you can email me the design (jim@...) we can try it in our machine to see what happens. If it is a bug, I will submit it to Janome.

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "pinguin60@" <pinguin60@> wrote:

Hello,

today I was embroidering a design and when it reached a part with 7 mm
wide satin stitches, the machine cut the thread and paused (without
finishing the colour).
When I continued it made one stitch and cut the thread again. And again etc.

I forwarded to a part with smaller stitches and then it continued. This
happened again in another part with wider stitches (7-9 mm, not super wide)

Has anyone experienced this before and what can I do about it (apart
from bringing the design in my software and shorten the stitches)

Thanks for any input,
Gerda


Pinguin
 

This is a Janome thing as the Pfaff and Husqvarna machines didn't have any problems with the design.
Gerda

Op 27-03-13 22:55, kkrissyb schreef:

 


Yes I had the exact same problem with a few designs. I changed the format and tried to embroider them on my commercial machine and the same thing happened with the commercial machine so I put it down to a poorly digitized design

Kris in Aus
--- In janome12000@..., "Jim_Stutsman" wrote:
>
> Satin stitches can be just over 12mm wide before they become jump stitches, so it doesn't seem like the machine is treating them as jumps. When it stopped after cutting, was there a message? Was this a design from someone else, or did you create it in MBX? What are the settings in your machine for Jump cutting? There might be a bug in the machine software that strikes when certain combinations occur. If you can email me the design (jim@...) we can try it in our machine to see what happens. If it is a bug, I will submit it to Janome.
>
> --- In janome12000@..., "pinguin60@" wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > today I was embroidering a design and when it reached a part with 7 mm
> > wide satin stitches, the machine cut the thread and paused (without
> > finishing the colour).
> > When I continued it made one stitch and cut the thread again. And again etc.
> >
> > I forwarded to a part with smaller stitches and then it continued. This
> > happened again in another part with wider stitches (7-9 mm, not super wide)
> >
> > Has anyone experienced this before and what can I do about it (apart
> > from bringing the design in my software and shorten the stitches)
> >
> > Thanks for any input,
> > Gerda
> >
>



Vikki Youngmeyer
 

Not all designs “translate” 100 percent into other formats. If one creates a design using PEF format, it doesn’t always come out perfectly when transferred to other formats.  Also, how many times has it been reconstructed for different formats? You start with a format for Brother machines and translate it into a format for Pfaff machines then take that format and create a JEF format. I’m getting dizzy just thinking about this!

 

So maybe after three or four translations it finally becomes a Janome JEF file. However, it’s not perfect, but we got it from a friend of a friend of a friend! Don’t tell me we are all holier than thou and don’t do this. In addition one may have a legitimate copy of the design. However, it was built using one format, changed to another format – by the designer and JEF format is down the list. It’s one thing if the file went from PES format to JEF, but a completely different scenario if it went from DST to PES to HUS and finally to JEF. Every extension change is only as good as the software doing it – most are good most of the time; however, some of the strokes don’t always get transferred correctly. It depends on the software used and the specific algorithm used to translate it.

 

If one is going to translate files then one needs to know under which format the file was originally created and go back to that original format to translate into each different format.  From my experience, development in PES and DST formats seem to be predominant.

 

Vikki

Houston, TX


Pinguin
 

It was a design that was included with a workshop at my dealer. So I may assume it was not converted a couple of times like you suggest.
I can't check the design now, as it is on the USB Stick and I left it at the dealer.

Gerda


Op 29-03-13 01:40, Vikki Youngmeyer schreef:

 

Not all designs “translate” 100 percent into other formats. If one creates a design using PEF format, it doesn’t always come out perfectly when transferred to other formats.  Also, how many times has it been reconstructed for different formats? You start with a format for Brother machines and translate it into a format for Pfaff machines then take that format and create a JEF format. I’m getting dizzy just thinking about this!

 

So maybe after three or four translations it finally becomes a Janome JEF file. However, it’s not perfect, but we got it from a friend of a friend of a friend! Don’t tell me we are all holier than thou and don’t do this. In addition one may h



maggie cooper
 

If one is going to translate files then one needs to know under which format
the file was originally created and go back to that original format to
translate into each different format. From my experience, development in
PES and DST formats seem to be predominant.
Vicki.
 
Vicki, its highly unlikely any purchased designs come in their original format, that's tantamount to a digitiser saying 'here take my design and convert it into any format you want, I'm so filthy rich I dont need the revenue legitimate conversions generate'
 
Unless you own the identical software the digitiser used, having the digitising format is useless to you anyway, it contains no stitchable content so your machines couldnt use them. Digitising software comes in 2 flavours, Object based, Stitch based, of the 2 object based is the preferred standard. Stitch based software has been overtaken by object based software.
 
When you convert a stitch file you damage the integrity of the resultant format, each format has it's own peculiar to that format set of commands for items like colour, trims, jump lengths,hoop size,  the one thing all formats share is the basic needle up, needle down, X and Y co-ordinates for hoop placement. Even the start point commands are different, in one format a stitch might have to be placed at the point of origin then a jump to the first stitch of the actual design. Some formats translate long hoop XY co-ordinate moves to running stitch, so you get a line of stitching you didnt expect. Converting stitch formats is never a good idea, and should you change from one make of a machine to another, only do one conversion which makes the design a second generation design, not good, but not so damaged the result will be dissapointingly bad.
 
Pes and DST are two of the OLDEST formats around, Pes is the legacy format of Brother software, and DST an industrial standard unchanged since it's inception, it's newer developed format isnt offered to domestic users only those who use industrial embroidery machines and comes in a variety of flavours to accomodate the variety of industrial machines. About 10 years ago, maybe a little longer, Pfaff released an embroidery collection of Hummel children, http://www.pfaff.com/global/82_3407.html I don't know if the designs in the link are the originals. They commited what in the digitising industry for domestic embroidery formats was a cardinal sin, they failed to test each stitch format to see what changes had occured in the conversion from the original native format, the results were horrific. Some purchasers were getting runlines across prestitched areas when using their format, other formats getting lock stitches which were impossible to remove half an inch away from where they should have been, horrendous colours, (pes, hus, jef, pfaff, hus, in fact most formats have their own colour catalogues which can vary enormously)  one format kept striking the frame and breaking needles. Pfaff had to aplogise then fix their designs for the intended format. A good digitiser has test stitchers using machines for each intended format, then adjusts the NATIVE digitising format to allow for the differences each format imposes on that design. DST and PES are NOT native formats. Every digitising software package uses reverse engineered formats usually at least 2 generations old, apart from their own, which will be the latest generation of their own stitch format. DST is an industry standard, which most software packages support.
 
If you own digitising software, the actual digitising part of the program should not be used to import stitch files, the editing part of the program is the one that is intended to be used for purchased designs, it imports the stitch files as are without attempting to recognise the tools or settings. If you own MBX this is important, if you open a stitch format design in MBX its stitch recognition kicks in, it will attempt to anilyse the needle penetration patterns and GUESS which tool, stitch type, pattern, density, underlay was used, then create objects in the resequence bar which much as I love the software, are invariably wrong. Why are they wrong? easy, a stitch format has absolutely no information regards density settings, stitch lengths, tools, underlay types, it only has hoop co-ordinates, needle up, needle down commands. Even the trim trigger can be totally different from its own trim trigger, 3 needle up commands, saving the design as a Jan still wont make theat design an editable design, all you have done is accepted the programs guessed settings and overwritten the original design.
 
''However, it's not perfect, but we got it from a friend of a friend of
a friend! Don't tell me we are all holier than thou and don't do this''
 
That is exactly what I am going to tell you, and I have told many others they should not do, apart from anything else it is theft, and as someone who has suffered from just this type of theft, I am disgusted by those who do it. I'm not Holier than thou, but for four decades had to generate an income from my own disciplines of illustration, prints, glass engaving, crafts,free motion art embroidery, and as a trained Arts and Crafts specialist and professional, I was sick to my eye teeth with those who took copies of my work but I did not have the funds to pursue them through the courts. 
 
I once asked a class of children if they thought stealing was ok, (I was also a primary education class teacher) I was amazed by their response. In their eyes theft from a shop was ok as they had plenty of money, it wasnt ok if friends stole their things as they didnt have plenty of money. If mummy or daddy  'borrowed' pens, pencils, paper, from work that wasnt stealing, if daddy made photo copies of mummy's knitting pattern books for her club, that wasnt stealing.  These were learned behaviours gained from observing the behaviours of adults, sharing items you have not created yourself and offered voluntarily for sharing, is theft. You are by your actions depriving a digitiser of their income generated by sales of that design. I have been asked countless times for copies of designs and always given the name of the site where purchased and refused to make a copy of the design in question. I've shared my own designs, I share my videos, but I have tracked down those who have copies removed my soundtrack and inserted their own and forced a removal of my work from their sites. I'm not alone in the way I feel about ''Sharing'', read Jims comments on customers who shared his work,
 
 
This lady proudly told us how much she enjoyed our publication and how she printed out copies for two of her friends. She might as well have said "Hey, I just put $10 worth of thread in my purse. Thanks for carrying such good products!" If she had known she was committing a crime, I doubt she would have been so forthcoming. On later digital products I put in a counter so I could see how many times each copy was downloaded. Surprise! One of our long-standing customers was downloading 2 copies every month, splitting the $4 cost with a friend. The $2 saved wouldn't even put a gallon of gas in the friend's Lexus, but it was hard for us to respect either of the ladies after that.
Back to the essence of this mail, Stitch conversions beyond second generation, which is, Native non stitch format, conversion to a stitch format 1st generation, reconversion to a different format using the previous 1st generation stitch format, 2nd generation.  Do not attempt  another conversion. By the 3rd conversion you have allready damaged the stitch formats content. And please, do consider the damage you do to a digitisers income as well as the damage you cause to their design when you make multiple conversions for sharing, under the law you are commiting an illegal act.
Maggie Cooper.