Date   

Re: Janome 12000 FA10 Hoop

Susan Militello <suemili48@...>
 

I also have problems with my hoops.  I've been putting them flat on the table with the connector part hanging off so they are totally flat, then putting magazines on top.  Haven't tried to use them yet.  I'm going to try the acrylic table and see if that helps as well. Thanks for the hint!

Sue in WNY

On May 31, 2013 8:04 PM, <Fmjfrazier@...> wrote:
 

When I first got my machine I always felt like the hoops were not right,  I tried calibrating and that did not help.  My dealer suggested to keep my acrylic table on the machine at all times even when I embroider.  Voila no more problems with my hoops. It keeps your hoops level and so much nicer.
 
Virginia
 
In a message dated 5/31/2013 6:48:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, annabell131@... writes:
 

 
 
Hello All
 
I had to use my smallest hoop FA10 3.9" X 1.6" and discovered it didn't sit flat - it was raised about half inch on the end nearest the screen.
 
I took it back to my Dealer and she tried her hoop and hers was much the same.  I was trying to dome some 1" circles that were digitized for me and
They needed to be placed perfectly - but the hoop being warped made this task very difficult.  Also when the needle was sewing the flat end, it was perfect but when it was sewing the slightly raised end, the needle made a plopping sound as it went thru my stabilizer (which by the way was the only thing hooped) as I had to position my fabric
On top of the stabilizer.
 
I hope all this makes sense.  I wonder if anyone else has this problem.  It is rare that I use this size hoop.
 
Cheers
Anna
 
 


Re: Janome 12000 FA10 Hoop

vicki chrobak
 

Anna, Jim brought this up early on & apparently quite a few were warped, including mine.  Dealer replaced it no charge under warranty.
Vicki Jo

On 5/31/2013 4:48 PM, annabell131@... wrote:
 
Hello All
 
I had to use my smallest hoop FA10 3.9" X 1.6" and discovered it didn't sit flat - it was raised about half inch on the end nearest the screen.
 
I took it back to my Dealer and she tried her hoop and hers was much the same.  I was trying to dome some 1" circles that were digitized for me and
They needed to be placed perfectly - but the hoop being warped made this task very difficult.  Also when the needle was sewing the flat end, it was perfect but when it was sewing the slightly raised end, the needle made a plopping sound as it went thru my stabilizer (which by the way was the only thing hooped) as I had to position my fabric
On top of the stabilizer.
 
I hope all this makes sense.  I wonder if anyone else has this problem.  It is rare that I use this size hoop.
 
Cheers
Anna
 


Re: Janome 12000 FA10 Hoop

Virginia
 

When I first got my machine I always felt like the hoops were not right,  I tried calibrating and that did not help.  My dealer suggested to keep my acrylic table on the machine at all times even when I embroider.  Voila no more problems with my hoops. It keeps your hoops level and so much nicer.
 
Virginia
 

In a message dated 5/31/2013 6:48:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, annabell131@... writes:
 

 
 
Hello All
 
I had to use my smallest hoop FA10 3.9" X 1.6" and discovered it didn't sit flat - it was raised about half inch on the end nearest the screen.
 
I took it back to my Dealer and she tried her hoop and hers was much the same.  I was trying to dome some 1" circles that were digitized for me and
They needed to be placed perfectly - but the hoop being warped made this task very difficult.  Also when the needle was sewing the flat end, it was perfect but when it was sewing the slightly raised end, the needle made a plopping sound as it went thru my stabilizer (which by the way was the only thing hooped) as I had to position my fabric
On top of the stabilizer.
 
I hope all this makes sense.  I wonder if anyone else has this problem.  It is rare that I use this size hoop.
 
Cheers
Anna
 
 


Re: Janome 12000 FA10 Hoop

annabell131@gmail.com <annabell131@...>
 

 
 
Hello All
 
I had to use my smallest hoop FA10 3.9" X 1.6" and discovered it didn't sit flat - it was raised about half inch on the end nearest the screen.
 
I took it back to my Dealer and she tried her hoop and hers was much the same.  I was trying to dome some 1" circles that were digitized for me and
They needed to be placed perfectly - but the hoop being warped made this task very difficult.  Also when the needle was sewing the flat end, it was perfect but when it was sewing the slightly raised end, the needle made a plopping sound as it went thru my stabilizer (which by the way was the only thing hooped) as I had to position my fabric
On top of the stabilizer.
 
I hope all this makes sense.  I wonder if anyone else has this problem.  It is rare that I use this size hoop.
 
Cheers
Anna
 
 


Re: Janome machine woes

turcotte37
 

I have had that problem in the past. Now when I change the bobbin case I always turn the hanwheel towards me one full turn and if the needle goes through and doesn't stop it is inseted correctly if it doesn't go through it is inserted wrong so place it again until you can turn the wheel towards you and the needle goes through. This procedure has solved the problem for me.I have had my machine for almost 3 years now. I hope this will solve your problem.

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, Fmjfrazier@... wrote:

Your bobbin case should not be popping out at all and if you have brought
your machine back more than once you should not be paying for any service or
parts until your dealer gets it right.

As long as you are using the correct bobbin case. You should not be
having this problem. Also what bobbin thread are you using? Prewound bobbins
might be your problem, not all prewounds are correct for our machine. Also
when the machine tells you the bobbin thread is low do you change it? It
is hard to suggest everything that could be wrong, but the above could be
your issue.

Virginia



In a message dated 5/30/2013 8:46:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mlcashman@... writes:




Has anyone had their bobbin case "jump out" when they are doing embroidery.
This causes needle breakage, and of course it jams everything up. I have
had it in for repairs three times in the last two months for this problem.
Of course the bobbin case gets scarred from the needle causing rough edges.
These must be sanded down. I have replaced both bobbin cases and lo and
behold, I was using a new bobbin case - put in only two days ago and it did it
again today - jamming up the machine so bad - I had to cut the needle in
half to get it out and then I couldn't even get the bobbin case out of the
machine it is wedged in so tight. I turned it off, and it is going back to
the dealer again tomorrow. It was only in on Saturday for the same problem.

I am really frustrated - is this a factory defect or what? I can't afford
to keep buying new bobbin cases at $30 a shot - and obviously my dealer
doesn't know what is causing it or how to fix it properly. I know I am putting
the case in properly - aligning all the arrows up where they are suppose
to go, double checking that the case is in right and doesn't move around.

My girlfriend who has the same machine does not have this problem. And I
know she is using it as much as I am as we are both working on the same Hoop
Sister's project - my machine has caused me so much grief I am ready to
turn it in for good except I like it when it is not broken


Re: help installing Digitizer MBX

Jim_Stutsman <jim@...>
 

It sounds like you are trying to upgrade by installing previous versions of Digitizer. You don't want to do that. In fact, you should remove ALL previous versions before installing MBX. After uninstalling them, delete the folder they were in and restart your computer. The MBX upgrade contains a full version of Digitizer MBX. The upgrade is accomplished through the old and new dongles. Some of the versions you mention won't even run on Vista.

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, djclendaniel@... wrote:




I have Windows Vista Home Premium service pack 2.

This is the system error I keep getting when I try installing "Digitizier MBX D10000, D-Pro V1,2,3, or D-MB" to Digitizer V4







---------------------------
System Error
---------------------------
UNKNOWN
ExceptionCode : e06d7363
ExceptionFlags : 1
ExceptionAddress : 76E5FC16
NumberParameters : 3
Startup Address : 006219F0
Offset of Exception : 7683E226
---------------------------
OK  
---------------------------


 

----- Original Message -----




From: "Jim_Stutsman" <jim@...>
To: janome12000@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:33:59 PM
Subject: [janome12000] Re: help installing Digitizer MBX

 




Have you downloaded and installed the 4.0MR2 update?
http://www.janome.co.jp/e/e_downloads/digitizer_mbx_v40m.html
If not, do that and see if it helps. If you have already installed the update, go through the install process again and choose the "Repair" option. If this doesn't resolve the problem we'll need more information about your computer with regard to memory, version of Windows, and any error messages that may have shown up during the installation of MBX.

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com , djclendaniel@ wrote:




This is the error message I get each time I CLICK on the Digitizer MBX easy edit icon.   I purchased the upgrade because I already had Digitizer MB upgrade V2.0-V3.0.  What have I done wrong and what do I need to do wo correct the problem.
 My previous version worked good, no problems.
---------------------------
System Error
---------------------------
UNKNOWN
ExceptionCode : e06d7363
---------------------------


Re: help installing Digitizer MBX

Donna Clendaniel
 

I have Windows Vista Home Premium service pack 2.

This is the system error I keep getting when I try installing "Digitizier MBX D10000, D-Pro V1,2,3, or D-MB" to Digitizer V4

 

 

 

---------------------------
System Error
---------------------------
UNKNOWN
ExceptionCode : e06d7363
ExceptionFlags : 1
ExceptionAddress : 76E5FC16
NumberParameters : 3
Startup Address : 006219F0
Offset of Exception : 7683E226
---------------------------
OK  
---------------------------

 


From: "Jim_Stutsman"
To: janome12000@...
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:33:59 PM
Subject: [janome12000] Re: help installing Digitizer MBX

 

Have you downloaded and installed the 4.0MR2 update?
http://www.janome.co.jp/e/e_downloads/digitizer_mbx_v40m.html
If not, do that and see if it helps. If you have already installed the update, go through the install process again and choose the "Repair" option. If this doesn't resolve the problem we'll need more information about your computer with regard to memory, version of Windows, and any error messages that may have shown up during the installation of MBX.

--- In janome12000@..., djclendaniel@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> This is the error message I get each time I CLICK on the Digitizer MBX easy edit icon.   I purchased the upgrade because I already had Digitizer MB upgrade V2.0-V3.0.  What have I done wrong and what do I need to do wo correct the problem.
>  My previous version worked good, no problems.
> ---------------------------
> System Error
> ---------------------------
> UNKNOWN
> ExceptionCode : e06d7363
> ---------------------------
>


Re: help installing Digitizer MBX

Virginia
 

Not knowing what computer program version you are using, be sure you have downloaded the drivers for the MBX for your windows version.
 
Virginia
 

In a message dated 5/30/2013 6:04:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, djclendaniel@... writes:
 

This is the error message I get each time I CLICK on the Digitizer MBX easy edit icon.   I purchased the upgrade because I already had Digitizer MB upgrade V2.0-V3.0.  What have I done wrong and what do I need to do wo correct the problem.
 My previous version worked good, no problems.
---------------------------
System Error
---------------------------
UNKNOWN
ExceptionCode : e06d7363
---------------------------


Re: help installing Digitizer MBX

Jim_Stutsman <jim@...>
 

Have you downloaded and installed the 4.0MR2 update?
http://www.janome.co.jp/e/e_downloads/digitizer_mbx_v40m.html
If not, do that and see if it helps. If you have already installed the update, go through the install process again and choose the "Repair" option. If this doesn't resolve the problem we'll need more information about your computer with regard to memory, version of Windows, and any error messages that may have shown up during the installation of MBX.

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, djclendaniel@... wrote:




This is the error message I get each time I CLICK on the Digitizer MBX easy edit icon.   I purchased the upgrade because I already had Digitizer MB upgrade V2.0-V3.0.  What have I done wrong and what do I need to do wo correct the problem.
 My previous version worked good, no problems.
---------------------------
System Error
---------------------------
UNKNOWN
ExceptionCode : e06d7363
---------------------------


help installing Digitizer MBX

Donna Clendaniel
 

This is the error message I get each time I CLICK on the Digitizer MBX easy edit icon.   I purchased the upgrade because I already had Digitizer MB upgrade V2.0-V3.0.  What have I done wrong and what do I need to do wo correct the problem.
 My previous version worked good, no problems.
---------------------------
System Error
---------------------------
UNKNOWN
ExceptionCode : e06d7363
---------------------------


Re: bobbin case trouble

monal
 

Hi all - thanks for the input Jim - I am off to my dealer in 1/2 hr and I am taking your email with me.

My Dealer is off to Delta BC next week to learn how to really repair these babies and if he hasn't got the problem solved, I am going to suggest he take my machine with him. After all, the techies there have already had my machine once (just three weeks ago when I blew a fuse). The good thing about all of this is that other than me paying for the bobbin case everything else is still under warranty. Good thing I kept the box!

I shall keep you posted

Mona
Comox BC
Canada


bobbin case trouble

fmacashley <no_reply@...>
 

I did have trouble with bobbin case, thread not going through properly , etc, etc on my new Janome 12000. Consulted with a great dealer, got the machine back to Fargo, ND Janome dealer; did wonderful ...maybe I shouldn't name dealers, but anyone could call them, get advice; I shipped it by UPS to them, and they carefully shipped it back in top notch shape....sewing great after that.


Re: Janome machine woes

Virginia
 

Your bobbin case should not be popping out at all and if you have brought your machine back more than once you should not be paying for any service or parts until your dealer gets it right.
 
As long as you are using the correct bobbin case.  You should not be having this problem.  Also what bobbin thread are you using?  Prewound bobbins might be your problem, not all prewounds are correct for our machine.  Also when the machine tells you the bobbin thread is low do you change it?  It is hard to suggest everything that could be wrong, but the above could be your issue.
 
Virginia
 
 

In a message dated 5/30/2013 8:46:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mlcashman@... writes:
 

Has anyone had their bobbin case "jump out" when they are doing embroidery. This causes needle breakage, and of course it jams everything up. I have had it in for repairs three times in the last two months for this problem. Of course the bobbin case gets scarred from the needle causing rough edges. These must be sanded down. I have replaced both bobbin cases and lo and behold, I was using a new bobbin case - put in only two days ago and it did it again today - jamming up the machine so bad - I had to cut the needle in half to get it out and then I couldn't even get the bobbin case out of the machine it is wedged in so tight. I turned it off, and it is going back to the dealer again tomorrow. It was only in on Saturday for the same problem.

I am really frustrated - is this a factory defect or what? I can't afford to keep buying new bobbin cases at $30 a shot - and obviously my dealer doesn't know what is causing it or how to fix it properly. I know I am putting the case in properly - aligning all the arrows up where they are suppose to go, double checking that the case is in right and doesn't move around.

My girlfriend who has the same machine does not have this problem. And I know she is using it as much as I am as we are both working on the same Hoop Sister's project - my machine has caused me so much grief I am ready to turn it in for good except I like it when it is not broken


Re: Janome machine woes

Jim_Stutsman <jim@...>
 

This is not an easy problem for a technician to diagnose. I went through a fair bit of frustration, as did my 11000 customers who had it, until I figured out what was going on. There are several possible causes:

1. Overly dense or poorly digitized designs, or too large of a needle. This can be recognized by snarls and loops on the bottom of the embroidery. Since your girl friend is working on the same designs, we can probably rule that out.

2. Loss of tension or thread coming out of the take-up lever. This will show up as lots of loops on the bottom of the embroidery. The loops pile up until they literally pull the case out of position. That's probably not what's going on with you, but if you are getting loops it might be worth checking.

3. Burr on the hook race from previous damage. When the needle goes through the bobbin case it can also stab into the aluminum hook race that the bobbin case sits on. The will create a nasty burr that can catch the thread so that the stitch does not release. When the thread gets pulled up it pops the bobbin case up, causing it to spin past the stopper and get stabbed again. Until the hook race damage is fixed, the problem will keep happening at random times. You need a magnifying glass to see the damage. Use a bright light and look at the ledge the bobbin case sits on while turning the hand wheel slowly. Look for pits or notches where the needle has scarred it. Small burrs can be carefully polished away using a polishing stone, but if there are multiple scars the hook race should be replaced. In chronic cases I've seen hook races with an edge that looks like a cheese grater. Many dealers don't look for this kind of damage, leading to machines that have the problem repeatedly. I would say this is the leading cause of machines being labeled a "lemon".

4. Bobbin case stopper set too far forward. In the early days of the 11000 the stopper that keeps the bobbin case in position was set wrong at the factory. This is a critical setting, because the bobbin case must be loose enough to let the thread slide smoothly over the little spring on the stopper, but snug enough to keep the case in position. Sometimes a jam or threading problem can cause the little spring on the stopper to pull out. The machine may continue to sew, but that mispositioned spring is a time bomb that will eventually cause trouble. I got to be very adept at rebuilding those stoppers to put the spring back in position, though I also had to replace quite a few stoppers. The stopper itself must be far enough back to hold the case securely without binding the thread. If it's set too far forward, as was the case with very early 11000s, it will lead to frequent "jumping" bobbin cases.

Have your dealer check items 3 & 4. As you have discovered, simply replacing the bobbin case will not solve the problem, because the bobbin case is being damaged by the actual problem. It's not a chronic problem or a defect in the machine, just something that needs to be correctly adjusted or replaced. Good luck!

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "mona_cashman" <mlcashman@...> wrote:

Has anyone had their bobbin case "jump out" when they are doing embroidery. This causes needle breakage, and of course it jams everything up. I have had it in for repairs three times in the last two months for this problem. Of course the bobbin case gets scarred from the needle causing rough edges. These must be sanded down. I have replaced both bobbin cases and lo and behold, I was using a new bobbin case - put in only two days ago and it did it again today - jamming up the machine so bad - I had to cut the needle in half to get it out and then I couldn't even get the bobbin case out of the machine it is wedged in so tight. I turned it off, and it is going back to the dealer again tomorrow. It was only in on Saturday for the same problem.

I am really frustrated - is this a factory defect or what? I can't afford to keep buying new bobbin cases at $30 a shot - and obviously my dealer doesn't know what is causing it or how to fix it properly. I know I am putting the case in properly - aligning all the arrows up where they are suppose to go, double checking that the case is in right and doesn't move around.

My girlfriend who has the same machine does not have this problem. And I know she is using it as much as I am as we are both working on the same Hoop Sister's project - my machine has caused me so much grief I am ready to turn it in for good except I like it when it is not broken


Re: Janome machine woes

Laura Catto (Brayford)
 

Why doesn't your dealer contact Janome directly? He is suppose to have received training of fixing the machine...Here in Canada we can also contact Janome Canada directly to ask our questions. I haven't had this problem at all.
 
Laura

From: mona_cashman
To: janome12000@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:12:38 PM
Subject: [janome12000] Janome machine woes
 
Has anyone had their bobbin case "jump out" when they are doing embroidery. This causes needle breakage, and of course it jams everything up. I have had it in for repairs three times in the last two months for this problem. Of course the bobbin case gets scarred from the needle causing rough edges. These must be sanded down. I have replaced both bobbin cases and lo and behold, I was using a new bobbin case - put in only two days ago and it did it again today - jamming up the machine so bad - I had to cut the needle in half to get it out and then I couldn't even get the bobbin case out of the machine it is wedged in so tight. I turned it off, and it is going back to the dealer again tomorrow. It was only in on Saturday for the same problem.

I am really frustrated - is this a factory defect or what? I can't afford to keep buying new bobbin cases at $30 a shot - and obviously my dealer doesn't know what is causing it or how to fix it properly. I know I am putting the case in properly - aligning all the arrows up where they are suppose to go, double checking that the case is in right and doesn't move around.

My girlfriend who has the same machine does not have this problem. And I know she is using it as much as I am as we are both working on the same Hoop Sister's project - my machine has caused me so much grief I am ready to turn it in for good except I like it when it is not broken


Re: Janome machine woes

Kathy <beadqueen@...>
 

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "mona_cashman" <mlcashman@...> wrote:

Has anyone had their bobbin case "jump out" when they are doing embroidery. This causes needle breakage, and of course it jams everything up. I have had it in for repairs three times in the last two months for this problem. Of course the bobbin case gets scarred from the needle causing rough edges. These must be sanded down. I have replaced both bobbin cases and lo and behold, I was using a new bobbin case - put in only two days ago and it did it again today - jamming up the machine so bad - I had to cut the needle in half to get it out and then I couldn't even get the bobbin case out of the machine it is wedged in so tight. I turned it off, and it is going back to the dealer again tomorrow. It was only in on Saturday for the same problem.

I am really frustrated - is this a factory defect or what? I can't afford to keep buying new bobbin cases at $30 a shot - and obviously my dealer doesn't know what is causing it or how to fix it properly. I know I am putting the case in properly - aligning all the arrows up where they are suppose to go, double checking that the case is in right and doesn't move around.




My girlfriend who has the same machine does not have this problem. And I know she is using it as much as I am as we are both working on the same Hoop Sister's project - my machine has caused me so much grief I am ready to turn it in for good except I like it when it is not broken




This just happened to me last week. After my repairman put in a new bobbin case, he then adjusted the screws that held everything in place and made sure the bobbin case fit correctly with no play causing it to move back and forth. I hope I said this right.


Re: HorizonLink for 12000

Jim_Stutsman <jim@...>
 

"Help" is the operative term here. In the top right corner of the HorizonLink screen you will see a small blue question mark. Click that to open the help menu for the program. On the left there are 5 purple book icons, with the top one being open to the first topic. Click on one of the 5 book icons and then click the "Print" button at the top of the help window. Choose the option to "Print the selected heading and all subtopics". Repeat for each and you will have a book for HorizonLink.

Next week we will start taking orders for volume 2 of our 12000 DVD, which contains videos of all the features of HorizonLink. This will give you a comprehensive reference of everything related to the embroidery features of HorizonLink, as well as the AcuFil tool. Details will be announced on this list.

--- In janome12000@yahoogroups.com, "fabecm" <fabecm@...> wrote:

Help! I need a book for this software. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you


Janome machine woes

monal
 

Has anyone had their bobbin case "jump out" when they are doing embroidery. This causes needle breakage, and of course it jams everything up. I have had it in for repairs three times in the last two months for this problem. Of course the bobbin case gets scarred from the needle causing rough edges. These must be sanded down. I have replaced both bobbin cases and lo and behold, I was using a new bobbin case - put in only two days ago and it did it again today - jamming up the machine so bad - I had to cut the needle in half to get it out and then I couldn't even get the bobbin case out of the machine it is wedged in so tight. I turned it off, and it is going back to the dealer again tomorrow. It was only in on Saturday for the same problem.

I am really frustrated - is this a factory defect or what? I can't afford to keep buying new bobbin cases at $30 a shot - and obviously my dealer doesn't know what is causing it or how to fix it properly. I know I am putting the case in properly - aligning all the arrows up where they are suppose to go, double checking that the case is in right and doesn't move around.

My girlfriend who has the same machine does not have this problem. And I know she is using it as much as I am as we are both working on the same Hoop Sister's project - my machine has caused me so much grief I am ready to turn it in for good except I like it when it is not broken


HorizonLink for 12000

fabecm
 

Help! I need a book for this software. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you


Playing with thread color

Pixey
 

Apologies for revisiting a thread of a few weeks ago but things have been crazy for me  at work this past month and I'm just now catching up.  When I first started embroidering, I had bought a lot of thread haphazardly as I found colors I liked, hit a sale, or needed it for a project.  I love "changing" the colors aspect of the creative process to make the stitchout more uniquely mine, but some color changes and blending worked better than others.  Last year I found a tool that helped me really understand thread colors and why sometimes my shadings didn't work together like I thought they would...particularly on things like flowers and birds.  I've provided a link to it below...I found it on the Nancy's Notions site but it may be available from other vendors/suppliers as well.  The kit explains in laymans terms the different aspects that go into tints, shades, and hues and how they work together and has color cards like an interior designer will use and has a really nicely laid out color wheel poster.  I laid the poster out on the floor to "sort" my thread stash (which includes a number of different brands) by color group and was shocked at where some colors landed (particularly in the pinks and reds and oranges) but when I then used them together, they really did work a lot better. It also helped me realize where I needed to fill in my pallette with colors I'm not normally drawn to but are needed to complement, tie together, or accent a design. 
 
Here is the tool...
 
So now I store my thread by color group in plastic boxes (http://www.planomolding.com/product.php?BCCID=138&PID=752) from the fishing section of my nearest big-box Outdoors store. I write the color family number on the bottom of the spool to make it easier to refile it when done (yes my Librarian idiosyncracies are showing through here).  And I don't generally worry about actually changing the exact color in the design before sending to the machine (even though I could)...I just either print out my sew out sequence and write on it which brand/color number I am using or line them up on a wooden thread holder (with empty spools or bobbins as spacers when I need to repeat a color used earlier).  Unless you've actually color calibrated your computer monitor like digital photographers do, what you see on the screen is only an approximate anyway even if you are using the "official" color chart.
 
Pixey