Date   

Re: On the proliferation of groups

Jim Stutsman
 

Well said!


Re: Yahoo Mail Question

Jim Stutsman
 

The consensus among the experts seems to be that Yahoo Mail will remain as it is, although one would hope that they would improve security and overall operation. See this:

Personally I use iCloud mail, which is available free to anyone with an Apple product (iPhone, iPad, Mac). All of my other email addresses forward to that account. iCloud mail does not do advertising. There have been hacks of individual accounts, using social media to get the answers to the “Lost password” security settings. Apple has since added two-step authentication, which plugs that hole.


Re: On the proliferation of groups

maggie cooper
 

that's not a rant Jim, just someone explaining things nicely. I have been accused of being a technophobe because I refuse to own an iPad or iPhone, or one of the many android versions that exist. How can you possibly manage without a smart phone is a question I'm frequently asked. I know I shouldn't but I invariably answer with 'send smoke signals'that usually is met with 'so your scared of technology, I shrug and ignore it. I love all the massive technological leaps that have happened over the past 100 years, I embrace the advances made in fields as diverse as weather forecasting, (still can't compete with Freds aching knees) to space exploration, I love using technology as a tool. What I don't like is how it is used by commerce to shape peoples choices, the callous way companies like Google, Facebook, Instagram, Watts-app. MicroSoft and Apple simply ignore end users  privacy settings, they are treated as nothing more than data collection points to generate huge profits. If you own a smart phone, you are effectively wearing a barcode, it can track your every move, send details back to an enormous data cruncher, who needs big brother, its here and its called iPhone, iPad or Android. Clicks on a like symbol, that betrays your likes and dislikes, browse the Internet and every site you visit, every article you read, even sites well brought up folks shouldn't visit, are recorded. Governments would love unfettered access to all the data we unwitting mortals gladly provide every day, that is the side of technology I dislike. 
I did very much against my better judgement, join FB to support both a good friend and Wilcom's Hatch FB group Hatchlings. I sent one post to my friends group, and answered 2 hatch questions, FB decided my activity was suspicious and because I didn't own a smart phone to verify my identity, decided to bar me. Believe me that was wonderful, I don't do Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, WhatsAp, (owned by FB) I do use Skype to natter to my family in Oz, Indonesia, old friends in the USA and Europe, but even that is getting annoyingly pervasive. So I'm thinking of going back to a Voip softphone, something I used for a long time.  So no technology doesn't worry me, its the way the big boys use it to control, manipulate, shape the lives of their end users.
Now that is a rant!
 


Yahoo Mail Question

Carole Hollmann
 

Advice, please. 

This is a bit off track...but since the Yahoo Groups isn't being supported any more, what about the free version of Yahoo Mail?  Does anyone know?  I've been using it for 14 years now, but have had a few problems getting the mail to update on my iPhone lately (not to mention the security hacks).  As bad as it would be to change e-mails at this point, I'm thinking it might be a good time to go to a different e-mail.

Does anyone know if Yahoo mail is just dying out there?  Is there one e-mail that is considered the "best"?

Thanks!

Carole


Re: On the proliferation of groups

Mary E
 

Your advice has been invaluable for me, Jim. I appreciate learning how all the levels of the internet are working, especially how much info they are collecting on us regular folks 
Mary


On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, <onlinesewing@...> wrote:
< Long Rant>
Many years ago, perhaps an eon in Internet time, I joined an email list run by a couple in Virginia. This was known as the "Wades' List", following the name of the couple. Through that list I met a number of friends, and even attended a "gathering" of members. Eventually the company that hosted that list was absorbed by Yahoo. After the introduction of the Memory Craft 12000 I created a new group for support, and extended it to eventually include all of the 9mm embroidery-capable models. Last year Verizon consumed Yahoo, as we move ever closer to one gigantic corporation that owns everything in the world. I blissfully ignored that, until my dear friend Maggie alerted me that Verizon has no intention of supporting Yahoo Groups. Using the tools provided, I migrated the group to Groups.io, which you are now in if you are reading this. This company still provides a free service, with some restrictions. As we move forward I will probably adopt one of their commercial plans just for the convenience of the additional features.

Meanwhile, down in the (Silicon) Valley another gigantic entity called Facebook also provides groups. These are not email-based, but rather feed into your Facebook daily feed. It's very close to real time, meaning that questions asked there are often answered within a few minutes - no need to wait for email, especially if you only get a daily digest of posts here. A group focused on the Janome 15000 was created, which I joined. I should point out that being the administrator of a group does require a time commitment, especially if it has a lot of members. I have one group that I administer, but it's small and devoted to one of our iPad apps. I don't post as often as I should, but that's mostly because I am over-committed in other areas. What I have noticed in very large Facebook groups is that there is a lot of impatience. When the same question is posted for the third or fourth time, snarky comments follow. This is partly because Facebook is like a stream. Things go floating by and they disappear. You can't search to see if a question has been asked before. Searching a mailing list is not particularly rewarding either, but there is some hope of finding what you want. Not so on Facebook - if you see it and you think you might want it later, you have to save it. I think this is why a lot of groups tend to get "mean" over time. This has happened to two groups I am in that are devoted to humor. New people don't know what's already been posted, so they post things they like, not knowing they've been seen by almost all the members multiple times. This leads to nasty comments and requests that the administrator change the rules regarding new posts. As members are chastised for innocent behavior, they leave and often form a new "nice" group. This process can repeat many times.

This is not quite the same behavior as what has happened in the "Janome Horizon MC 15000" group, but it's similar. Moderating a group means you may have a member who has little to no dealer support, and you get peppered with questions that have already been answered before. I learned early on that creating this group would mean I would be fulfilling the dealer's role of support without any compensation. It's worth it to me in order to keep in touch with you, as friends AND as customers. We do have an income stream from our apps, which is sufficient for us to avoid food stamps, but not enough for a weekend in Maui. You have been very loyal to us, and have recommended us to countless others, for which we are very grateful. That's why we're here.

All that having been said, we need to say something about Facebook. It's a completely free service, yet the founder is one of the richest men in the world. How is this possible? On the Internet, which you cannot see where the money comes from, it's YOU! Not only does Facebook relentlessly watch your every click so they can craft ads just for you, they also mine an enormous amount of data regarding your likes, dislikes, and general interests. This is shared (for money) with many other companies so they can market to you. That's the price of using this "free" service. With all the furor over the CIA and NSA capturing data on citizens, I would venture to say that Facebook already has far more information than the government has ever collected. And they are working non-stop on new methods to capture even more data. I'm not trying to prevent you from using Facebook. It's too late for that, we're all in now! I just wanted to offer a bit of perspective to increase understanding. The unintended consequence of the always-connected nature of the Internet tends to split people up into polarized camps. That's why I don't use Twitter - everything said leads to one group loving it and another hating it! I don't have a solution. I think it's inherent to the Internet itself. It's much easier to chew someone out through a keyboard, rather than face to face over the back fence.

</ Long Rant>


Re: On the proliferation of groups

Dottie Newkirk
 

Thanks for your note ("rant", LOL), Jim......I'm one of those fortunate to have met you and Diane (as well as Stan from Australia) many, many years ago at the Virginia get-together.

You and Diane have been so very, very helpful to Janome owners/users for many years and y'all are very appreciated!!!  Happy 2018 and looking forward to more help and humor this year.  Dottie (now in Texas)


Re: A new Facebook group...

Cheryl Paul
 

Diane and Jim - you are the best, I love the group and especially Jim’s humour.

To others - let’s not bring bad stuff to the group as it can create such chaos - we need that time to learn and to sew more.

Cheryl - Saskatoon


Re: On the proliferation of groups

HEATHER COWAN
 

Thank you for your insight, dedication and honest endeavours to help and inform we sewers. In the internet age of instant everything some of the casualties are lack of patience and civility. I have found both on this group as well as many answers to my sewing questions and am always amazed at how generous sewers are. Please keep up the good fight.
Many blessings
Hugs
Heather


On the proliferation of groups

Jim Stutsman
 

< Long Rant>
Many years ago, perhaps an eon in Internet time, I joined an email list run by a couple in Virginia. This was known as the "Wades' List", following the name of the couple. Through that list I met a number of friends, and even attended a "gathering" of members. Eventually the company that hosted that list was absorbed by Yahoo. After the introduction of the Memory Craft 12000 I created a new group for support, and extended it to eventually include all of the 9mm embroidery-capable models. Last year Verizon consumed Yahoo, as we move ever closer to one gigantic corporation that owns everything in the world. I blissfully ignored that, until my dear friend Maggie alerted me that Verizon has no intention of supporting Yahoo Groups. Using the tools provided, I migrated the group to Groups.io, which you are now in if you are reading this. This company still provides a free service, with some restrictions. As we move forward I will probably adopt one of their commercial plans just for the convenience of the additional features.

Meanwhile, down in the (Silicon) Valley another gigantic entity called Facebook also provides groups. These are not email-based, but rather feed into your Facebook daily feed. It's very close to real time, meaning that questions asked there are often answered within a few minutes - no need to wait for email, especially if you only get a daily digest of posts here. A group focused on the Janome 15000 was created, which I joined. I should point out that being the administrator of a group does require a time commitment, especially if it has a lot of members. I have one group that I administer, but it's small and devoted to one of our iPad apps. I don't post as often as I should, but that's mostly because I am over-committed in other areas. What I have noticed in very large Facebook groups is that there is a lot of impatience. When the same question is posted for the third or fourth time, snarky comments follow. This is partly because Facebook is like a stream. Things go floating by and they disappear. You can't search to see if a question has been asked before. Searching a mailing list is not particularly rewarding either, but there is some hope of finding what you want. Not so on Facebook - if you see it and you think you might want it later, you have to save it. I think this is why a lot of groups tend to get "mean" over time. This has happened to two groups I am in that are devoted to humor. New people don't know what's already been posted, so they post things they like, not knowing they've been seen by almost all the members multiple times. This leads to nasty comments and requests that the administrator change the rules regarding new posts. As members are chastised for innocent behavior, they leave and often form a new "nice" group. This process can repeat many times.

This is not quite the same behavior as what has happened in the "Janome Horizon MC 15000" group, but it's similar. Moderating a group means you may have a member who has little to no dealer support, and you get peppered with questions that have already been answered before. I learned early on that creating this group would mean I would be fulfilling the dealer's role of support without any compensation. It's worth it to me in order to keep in touch with you, as friends AND as customers. We do have an income stream from our apps, which is sufficient for us to avoid food stamps, but not enough for a weekend in Maui. You have been very loyal to us, and have recommended us to countless others, for which we are very grateful. That's why we're here.

All that having been said, we need to say something about Facebook. It's a completely free service, yet the founder is one of the richest men in the world. How is this possible? On the Internet, which you cannot see where the money comes from, it's YOU! Not only does Facebook relentlessly watch your every click so they can craft ads just for you, they also mine an enormous amount of data regarding your likes, dislikes, and general interests. This is shared (for money) with many other companies so they can market to you. That's the price of using this "free" service. With all the furor over the CIA and NSA capturing data on citizens, I would venture to say that Facebook already has far more information than the government has ever collected. And they are working non-stop on new methods to capture even more data. I'm not trying to prevent you from using Facebook. It's too late for that, we're all in now! I just wanted to offer a bit of perspective to increase understanding. The unintended consequence of the always-connected nature of the Internet tends to split people up into polarized camps. That's why I don't use Twitter - everything said leads to one group loving it and another hating it! I don't have a solution. I think it's inherent to the Internet itself. It's much easier to chew someone out through a keyboard, rather than face to face over the back fence.

</ Long Rant>


Re: A new Facebook group...

suerevere@ymail.com
 

I couldn’t have said it better

Sent from my iPhone


Re: A new Facebook group...

Ceil J
 

Carolyn,
It's really not about being disloyal to Jim and Diane.  If there were only one group I could join, this would be it!  They joined the new group too and also have a "Quilt in the Hoop" group on Facebook for those of us who use their Quilt in the Hoop app.  (Highly recommended by the way.)  This new platform is very quick to post but many of us are (probably unfortunately) on Facebook for various groups and it's just another place to share and learn.  There are some people who did not care for Yahoo and never joined this group.  They preferred Facebook and so various groups are there.  I hope that's clear :)
Ceil

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:40 AM, Carolyn Gazerro <cmgazerro@...> wrote:
I have relied on Jim and Diane since owning the MC8000.  They are my first go to for support.  That is without contacting my  dealer and Janome support.  Jim and Diane are the most knowledgeable in this area.  They go above and beyond the call to duty.  Would never think of joining another group.  We also have the bonus of Jim’s humor.

Carolyn 🌹
Sent from my iPad





Re: A new Facebook group...

Ceil J
 

So true, and it occurred to me that I didn't think  of this group as a "new" group, just a migration of the Yahoo group to a new platform.  In my mind, the same group, different format but others see it as a new group.  It's really important to think outside of yourself. So that may have contributed to my careless post. 
In any event we're here to learn and share and this certainly has been a learning event for me!
Ceil


Re: A new Facebook group...

Carolyn Gazerro
 

I have relied on Jim and Diane since owning the MC8000. They are my first go to for support. That is without contacting my dealer and Janome support. Jim and Diane are the most knowledgeable in this area. They go above and beyond the call to duty. Would never think of joining another group. We also have the bonus of Jim’s humor.

Carolyn 🌹
Sent from my iPad


Re: A new Facebook group...

bellecon3
 

humpf, I don't think you have retired as a teacher yet!!! LOL......once a teacher, always a teacher?

Lori
Wylie Texas

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 9:52 AM, maggie cooper via Groups.Io <maggiecoops@...> wrote:

Ceil, the problem with black text on a white background, or indeed any text, is it needs to be very carefully worded so its intended meaning is crystal clear. Text doesn't give visual clues, it doesn't contain vocal hints, body language, a hint of a smile or a frown, its a very sterile form of communication. You have to paint a verbal picture for the reader if there isn't to be a mismatch of meanings. Perhaps had you made a qualifying statement along the lines say of, to those members here that belong to the FB group 15000, a new off shoot has been started. Then included the link.  Sorry if I sound old school maam-ish, but I am a retired teacher. 
I am genuinely pleased that you have explained your mail, and I am delighted you value Jim and Diane as much as I do. Who knows perhaps this topic may lead others to realise meaning in messages has to be clear, readers don't all share the same mental lexicon so can't fill in the missing parts. 



Re: A new Facebook group...

maggie cooper
 

Ceil, the problem with black text on a white background, or indeed any text, is it needs to be very carefully worded so its intended meaning is crystal clear. Text doesn't give visual clues, it doesn't contain vocal hints, body language, a hint of a smile or a frown, its a very sterile form of communication. You have to paint a verbal picture for the reader if there isn't to be a mismatch of meanings. Perhaps had you made a qualifying statement along the lines say of, to those members here that belong to the FB group 15000, a new off shoot has been started. Then included the link.  Sorry if I sound old school maam-ish, but I am a retired teacher. 
I am genuinely pleased that you have explained your mail, and I am delighted you value Jim and Diane as much as I do. Who knows perhaps this topic may lead others to realise meaning in messages has to be clear, readers don't all share the same mental lexicon so can't fill in the missing parts. 


Re: A new Facebook group...

Ceil J
 

Yikes, I just read my original post and of course I should have been clearer. 
I wrote, "A new Facebook group is being formed by those tired of the drama from the old group who have either..."
I should have written: " A new Facebook group is being formed by those tired of the drama from the old FACEBOOK group who have either..."
I really am very, very sorry. 
I am taking cold meds but there is absolutely no excuse for my carelessness.
By the way, Jim has joined the new Facebook group (which is not confidential if you go there and join you will see that). 
Again, I am very sorry.
Ceil


Re: A new Facebook group...

Ceil J
 

Maggie,
I'm so sorry that I didn't make my posting clearer.  I love this group in both it's formats, the Yahoo and now this one.  This is all about Facebook.  There are those of us who use it, with all its inherent faults, as it's very instant.  There is a group there that was formed for the 15000 machine and unfortunately the administrator of that group, not Jim or Diane, has done a number of questionable things that I didn't want to go into here.  I will give you some idea, however, so you see what I'm talking about.  For me personally, she was mean to a long-time member of the group and called her "needy", deleted some of her posts and the woman who this was done to messaged me, very upset.  I sent a message to the administrator and said that perhaps she made a mistake.  Her reply was (and I saved the email): "I am the ADMIN of this group, I read all the comments, and if ****** is Seasoned then she needs to contribute instead of asking all her questions.. from her posts she is one of the neediest of all the members".  Since then there was another dust-up and two ladies formed a new, drama-free group.  If you go to the original group you will not find this as the administrator has deleted the posts.  Also, since the new group formed, I have heard from others who have left in disgust over various things that were said and from a someone who pointed out to the administrator, in a private message, that she should not be posting copy-righted materials.  The administrator responded by banning this woman (a digitizer who had her own site) from the group.  I wondered why she was no longer in the group. By the way she digitizes and, instead of giving her the money, you send it to a hospital! She's a lovely lady and was trying to be helpful.
I am very sorry to have upset you by my trying to not give too much detail.  I think Jim and Diane are the best and in no way is this any reflection on them and the work they do and the help they give.  I should have taken more care in my posting if it could have been mistaken for a reflection on the Yahoo group which was wonderful and which continues here.
Please accept my apology for any distress I have caused you and anyone else.
Ceil

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 9:13 AM, maggie cooper via Groups.Io <maggiecoops@...> wrote:

I read this mail in total disbelief, it implies a friction existed, something I never experienced in the old group, it is also totally inappropriate to advertise another group on a successfully running platform that fulfils the needs of its membership and owner.  Quite frankly I'm appalled by your  mail, it shows a lack of group etiquette on your part, and implies this groups owner lacks the expertise and skill set to run a group. 2 attributes Jim and Diane have continuously shown they both have in abundance. 

Jim quite sensibly portaged the old group to this platform after discovering Yahoo had removed support for Yahoo groups back in 2014, something they never advised group owners about. One thing beyond his control was members whose mails were bouncing, Groups.io. do not transfer members who are bouncing mails back to senders, they class them as removed. Had the group remained with Yahoo/Verizon/Oath it would have been left to decay to the point of destruction, a point many Yahoo groups have found themselves in. 

This group has two very important assets, three if I include Jim's lovely sense of humour, those assets are Jim and Diane Stutsman, it would be a very foolish move to leave the known tried and tested knowledge of the owners of this group to follow an untried, untested group that appears by the first mail in this thread, to be a group of disaffected, dare I say drama queens, perhaps not, but certainly people who are maybe disappointed that Jim and Diane chose not to use perhaps the worse group provider on the web, FaceBook. 



Re: A new Facebook group...

Ceil J
 

ABSOLUTELY!!


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 3:35 AM, Lynn Cosgrove via Groups.Io <lynncosgrove@...> wrote:
and this is s GREAT group too ... 



Re: A new Facebook group...

Laura Velez <lgvelez@...>
 

Amen. I agree. I do not have a 15000, but have an S7. I have learned more from this group than any other Janome group. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 8:13 AM, maggie cooper via Groups.Io <maggiecoops@...> wrote:

I read this mail in total disbelief, it implies a friction existed, something I never experienced in the old group, it is also totally inappropriate to advertise another group on a successfully running platform that fulfils the needs of its membership and owner.  Quite frankly I'm appalled by your  mail, it shows a lack of group etiquette on your part, and implies this groups owner lacks the expertise and skill set to run a group. 2 attributes Jim and Diane have continuously shown they both have in abundance. 

Jim quite sensibly portaged the old group to this platform after discovering Yahoo had removed support for Yahoo groups back in 2014, something they never advised group owners about. One thing beyond his control was members whose mails were bouncing, Groups.io. do not transfer members who are bouncing mails back to senders, they class them as removed. Had the group remained with Yahoo/Verizon/Oath it would have been left to decay to the point of destruction, a point many Yahoo groups have found themselves in. 

This group has two very important assets, three if I include Jim's lovely sense of humour, those assets are Jim and Diane Stutsman, it would be a very foolish move to leave the known tried and tested knowledge of the owners of this group to follow an untried, untested group that appears by the first mail in this thread, to be a group of disaffected, dare I say drama queens, perhaps not, but certainly people who are maybe disappointed that Jim and Diane chose not to use perhaps the worse group provider on the web, FaceBook. 


A new Facebook group...

JoAnn Novak
 

 Well said and I agree. 

 Thank you Jim and Diane for all you have done to inform us on many issues.

 Hugs,  JoAnn

Life's biggest decision is what you do with Jesus.

I read this mail in total disbelief, it implies a friction existed, something I never experienced in the old group, it is also totally inappropriate to advertise another group on a successfully running platform that fulfils the needs of its membership and owner.  Quite frankly I'm appalled by your  mail, it shows a lack of group etiquette on your part, and implies this groups owner lacks the expertise and skill set to run a group. 2 attributes Jim and Diane have continuously shown they both have in abundance. 

Jim quite sensibly portaged the old group to this platform after discovering Yahoo had removed support for Yahoo groups back in 2014, something they never advised group owners about. One thing beyond his control was members whose mails were bouncing, Groups.io. do not transfer members who are bouncing mails back to senders, they class them as removed. Had the group remained with Yahoo/Verizon/Oath it would have been left to decay to the point of destruction, a point many Yahoo groups have found themselves in. 

This group has two very important assets, three if I include Jim's lovely sense of humour, those assets are Jim and Diane Stutsman, it would be a very foolish move to leave the known tried and tested knowledge of the owners of this group to follow an untried, untested group that appears by the first mail in this thread, to be a group of disaffected, dare I say drama queens, perhaps not, but certainly people who are maybe disappointed that Jim and Diane chose not to use perhaps the worse group provider on the web, FaceBook. 


8381 - 8400 of 29627