Topics

WINDURO 2019

Greg Mejlaender
 

Official Winduro 2019 Notice -
It's time to get the chat started, haha!
More info and details later... and for those who haven't done it before, please ask questions. Any question is fair game... there's no silly questions... we were all Winduro rookies the first time!!

*But this post will focus a bit more about how we handle the official Winduro Start *
Please read Brian's suggestion below... I like it and don't see any reason we can't do it this way There are many reasons "why" we always started the Winduro the traditional way, but I think it's time to evolve.
History (cause I think it's good to know where we came from) - In the beginning the Winduro was a summer event. I organized the first official Winduro in 1991 and it was sponsored by Bic Sports and Sturtevant's Ski and Windsurf Shop. A date was picked and we did the start out in the lake with a committee boat and buoys and a start line. We did it for a number of years and it was always very light wind, people used longboards and BIG sails, and it took many hours. Then the event went away.
It came back in the early 2000's probably thanks to Mark Dix and maybe Glenn and Rick - and other's I'm not sure. I was windsurfing locally all this time, but wasn't involved in windtalk or organizing events (I'd already done lots of that in the early 90's). Computers were better then, weather forecasting was better... and they did the Winduro in the Fall, hoping to get higher wind than we get in the summer.
Anyway for a long time now, the official fall Winduro always starts at the swim beach. Here's why. Mark (just like Brian below) liked a specific place to start the race so more precise times could be accounted for. The Winduro start and finish, has been the Newcastle Beach Swim Beach. You start your stopwatch, then do a "beach start" (or uphaul) and go... when you get back to the beach after some hours you stop your watch. Done. This worked in the fall, cause there's no lifeguards or swim beach rope buoy line. You couldn't do this in the summer, due to those factors.

So the Winduro evolved to "some windy Sat or Sun, from mid Sep to the end of Oct". And we announce it on Windtalk with approx. 48 hours notice!! Yes, it's too bad that many people who would like to attend, can't... due to family and work commitments. HOWEVER if we pick a random date in advance (so people can plan their life around it) we could end up with a rainy day and 5 mph wind... and we all agree that wouldn't be any fun. So we "cherry pick" a windy day during those approx. 6 weeks... and hope as many as possible can make it.

Back to the "Start sequence"... and what's new is windfoiling!!
You can't start the Winduro the traditional way with a windfoil. Because the hydrofoil sticks down 3' you can't "beach start" it. And because there's milfoil in the Newcastle swim beach area, the foil catches it. So you have to get out in the lake to really get going!!
Last year, was the second year we had windfoils… and it was amazing. The year before we had two - Mike B and Darius - but it wasn't quite windy enough for them, and their skills weren't as developed. But last year we had a bit more wind, and more foiler's with skills and fitness. And Brian stunned everyone (me anyway) by winning and setting a modern Winduro record !!!
And as he says below, this year there are way more skilled windfoiler's with the fitness to do the Winduro… so it will really be amazing!!

And this new start sequence suggestion is also good for the longboard and formula crowd. Here's why. Many newer longboard Winduro racers have told me, "it's very tough to get going downwind, from the swim beach, in high wind". And they're correct. Bad A$$ longboard racers like Mark D can do it easily, but it is VERY difficult. Many of us are worn out, just trying to get started and going downwind. And we STILL have the full Winduro to do!!
Brian's suggestion would work well for longboards - formula boards - windfoils - and any other windsurfer.

Over the next week... lets' get some comments from experienced Winduro racers and those who would like to do their first.
Thanks, Greg:)


From: Brian Clark <clarkbanse@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:12 AM
To: Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...>
Subject: Winduro Start
 
Hi Greg,
I was thinking about the winduro and had an idea to simplify the start this year. See attached aerial view.
  1. Use the line extended from the dock as the start line. see image. It is easy to look at the dock from the water and see that you are upwind of the line. This would be both start and finish line. I think you could have a requirement that racers be reasonably close to the dock at finish so they don't finish on port tack on the west side of the channel.
  2. start at a specific clock time - ie 10am. The start time would be defined in the skipper's meeting.
  3. have people record their finish clock time as well as any personal timing input they used (such as endomondo). (some gps devices may ignore stationary time, and only accumulate time while moving depending on settings) 
  4. If we have an observer available, they could help by blowing an air horn at the start, and also record finish clock times. (ie, red sail, 12:34:56 pm)
My start strategy would be to get on the water several minutes before start, get upwind of the line, drop my rig, start my personal timer maybe 30 seconds before start, then uphaul and head across the line when I am sure the clock says 10:00.
Last year we had an undefined start line, and there was no consensus about when to start timers, so each person had their own individual start time, which makes it hard to verify elapsed time at the finish line.
Let me know what you think. I'm excited for the race this year - I think there will be more foilers and it will be more competitive.
Feel free to re-post this to NW windtalk if you want to get a discussion going. 
Brian
image.png

Darius Lajauskas
 

Do we need really windy day 20-25mph for winduro?
No one is using anymore FW.
We need minimum 10-12mph all day no less. Foils will fly, longboards will glide well too.

Darius



On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 2:11 PM Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...> wrote:
Official Winduro 2019 Notice -
It's time to get the chat started, haha!
More info and details later... and for those who haven't done it before, please ask questions. Any question is fair game... there's no silly questions... we were all Winduro rookies the first time!!

*But this post will focus a bit more about how we handle the official Winduro Start *
Please read Brian's suggestion below... I like it and don't see any reason we can't do it this way There are many reasons "why" we always started the Winduro the traditional way, but I think it's time to evolve.
History (cause I think it's good to know where we came from) - In the beginning the Winduro was a summer event. I organized the first official Winduro in 1991 and it was sponsored by Bic Sports and Sturtevant's Ski and Windsurf Shop. A date was picked and we did the start out in the lake with a committee boat and buoys and a start line. We did it for a number of years and it was always very light wind, people used longboards and BIG sails, and it took many hours. Then the event went away.
It came back in the early 2000's probably thanks to Mark Dix and maybe Glenn and Rick - and other's I'm not sure. I was windsurfing locally all this time, but wasn't involved in windtalk or organizing events (I'd already done lots of that in the early 90's). Computers were better then, weather forecasting was better... and they did the Winduro in the Fall, hoping to get higher wind than we get in the summer.
Anyway for a long time now, the official fall Winduro always starts at the swim beach. Here's why. Mark (just like Brian below) liked a specific place to start the race so more precise times could be accounted for. The Winduro start and finish, has been the Newcastle Beach Swim Beach. You start your stopwatch, then do a "beach start" (or uphaul) and go... when you get back to the beach after some hours you stop your watch. Done. This worked in the fall, cause there's no lifeguards or swim beach rope buoy line. You couldn't do this in the summer, due to those factors.

So the Winduro evolved to "some windy Sat or Sun, from mid Sep to the end of Oct". And we announce it on Windtalk with approx. 48 hours notice!! Yes, it's too bad that many people who would like to attend, can't... due to family and work commitments. HOWEVER if we pick a random date in advance (so people can plan their life around it) we could end up with a rainy day and 5 mph wind... and we all agree that wouldn't be any fun. So we "cherry pick" a windy day during those approx. 6 weeks... and hope as many as possible can make it.

Back to the "Start sequence"... and what's new is windfoiling!!
You can't start the Winduro the traditional way with a windfoil. Because the hydrofoil sticks down 3' you can't "beach start" it. And because there's milfoil in the Newcastle swim beach area, the foil catches it. So you have to get out in the lake to really get going!!
Last year, was the second year we had windfoils… and it was amazing. The year before we had two - Mike B and Darius - but it wasn't quite windy enough for them, and their skills weren't as developed. But last year we had a bit more wind, and more foiler's with skills and fitness. And Brian stunned everyone (me anyway) by winning and setting a modern Winduro record !!!
And as he says below, this year there are way more skilled windfoiler's with the fitness to do the Winduro… so it will really be amazing!!

And this new start sequence suggestion is also good for the longboard and formula crowd. Here's why. Many newer longboard Winduro racers have told me, "it's very tough to get going downwind, from the swim beach, in high wind". And they're correct. Bad A$$ longboard racers like Mark D can do it easily, but it is VERY difficult. Many of us are worn out, just trying to get started and going downwind. And we STILL have the full Winduro to do!!
Brian's suggestion would work well for longboards - formula boards - windfoils - and any other windsurfer.

Over the next week... lets' get some comments from experienced Winduro racers and those who would like to do their first.
Thanks, Greg:)


From: Brian Clark <clarkbanse@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:12 AM
To: Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...>
Subject: Winduro Start
 
Hi Greg,
I was thinking about the winduro and had an idea to simplify the start this year. See attached aerial view.
  1. Use the line extended from the dock as the start line. see image. It is easy to look at the dock from the water and see that you are upwind of the line. This would be both start and finish line. I think you could have a requirement that racers be reasonably close to the dock at finish so they don't finish on port tack on the west side of the channel.
  2. start at a specific clock time - ie 10am. The start time would be defined in the skipper's meeting.
  3. have people record their finish clock time as well as any personal timing input they used (such as endomondo). (some gps devices may ignore stationary time, and only accumulate time while moving depending on settings) 
  4. If we have an observer available, they could help by blowing an air horn at the start, and also record finish clock times. (ie, red sail, 12:34:56 pm)
My start strategy would be to get on the water several minutes before start, get upwind of the line, drop my rig, start my personal timer maybe 30 seconds before start, then uphaul and head across the line when I am sure the clock says 10:00.
Last year we had an undefined start line, and there was no consensus about when to start timers, so each person had their own individual start time, which makes it hard to verify elapsed time at the finish line.
Let me know what you think. I'm excited for the race this year - I think there will be more foilers and it will be more competitive.
Feel free to re-post this to NW windtalk if you want to get a discussion going. 
Brian

Michal Prussak
 

I want at least 15-20. 

Michal


On Sep 5, 2019, at 7:21 PM, Darius Lajauskas <dariuslajauskas@...> wrote:

Do we need really windy day 20-25mph for winduro?
No one is using anymore FW.
We need minimum 10-12mph all day no less. Foils will fly, longboards will glide well too.

Darius



On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 2:11 PM Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...> wrote:
Official Winduro 2019 Notice -
It's time to get the chat started, haha!
More info and details later... and for those who haven't done it before, please ask questions. Any question is fair game... there's no silly questions... we were all Winduro rookies the first time!!

*But this post will focus a bit more about how we handle the official Winduro Start *
Please read Brian's suggestion below... I like it and don't see any reason we can't do it this way There are many reasons "why" we always started the Winduro the traditional way, but I think it's time to evolve.
History (cause I think it's good to know where we came from) - In the beginning the Winduro was a summer event. I organized the first official Winduro in 1991 and it was sponsored by Bic Sports and Sturtevant's Ski and Windsurf Shop. A date was picked and we did the start out in the lake with a committee boat and buoys and a start line. We did it for a number of years and it was always very light wind, people used longboards and BIG sails, and it took many hours. Then the event went away.
It came back in the early 2000's probably thanks to Mark Dix and maybe Glenn and Rick - and other's I'm not sure. I was windsurfing locally all this time, but wasn't involved in windtalk or organizing events (I'd already done lots of that in the early 90's). Computers were better then, weather forecasting was better... and they did the Winduro in the Fall, hoping to get higher wind than we get in the summer.
Anyway for a long time now, the official fall Winduro always starts at the swim beach. Here's why. Mark (just like Brian below) liked a specific place to start the race so more precise times could be accounted for. The Winduro start and finish, has been the Newcastle Beach Swim Beach. You start your stopwatch, then do a "beach start" (or uphaul) and go... when you get back to the beach after some hours you stop your watch. Done. This worked in the fall, cause there's no lifeguards or swim beach rope buoy line. You couldn't do this in the summer, due to those factors.

So the Winduro evolved to "some windy Sat or Sun, from mid Sep to the end of Oct". And we announce it on Windtalk with approx. 48 hours notice!! Yes, it's too bad that many people who would like to attend, can't... due to family and work commitments. HOWEVER if we pick a random date in advance (so people can plan their life around it) we could end up with a rainy day and 5 mph wind... and we all agree that wouldn't be any fun. So we "cherry pick" a windy day during those approx. 6 weeks... and hope as many as possible can make it.

Back to the "Start sequence"... and what's new is windfoiling!!
You can't start the Winduro the traditional way with a windfoil. Because the hydrofoil sticks down 3' you can't "beach start" it. And because there's milfoil in the Newcastle swim beach area, the foil catches it. So you have to get out in the lake to really get going!!
Last year, was the second year we had windfoils… and it was amazing. The year before we had two - Mike B and Darius - but it wasn't quite windy enough for them, and their skills weren't as developed. But last year we had a bit more wind, and more foiler's with skills and fitness. And Brian stunned everyone (me anyway) by winning and setting a modern Winduro record !!!
And as he says below, this year there are way more skilled windfoiler's with the fitness to do the Winduro… so it will really be amazing!!

And this new start sequence suggestion is also good for the longboard and formula crowd. Here's why. Many newer longboard Winduro racers have told me, "it's very tough to get going downwind, from the swim beach, in high wind". And they're correct. Bad A$$ longboard racers like Mark D can do it easily, but it is VERY difficult. Many of us are worn out, just trying to get started and going downwind. And we STILL have the full Winduro to do!!
Brian's suggestion would work well for longboards - formula boards - windfoils - and any other windsurfer.

Over the next week... lets' get some comments from experienced Winduro racers and those who would like to do their first.
Thanks, Greg:)


From: Brian Clark <clarkbanse@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:12 AM
To: Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...>
Subject: Winduro Start
 
Hi Greg,
I was thinking about the winduro and had an idea to simplify the start this year. See attached aerial view.
  1. Use the line extended from the dock as the start line. see image. It is easy to look at the dock from the water and see that you are upwind of the line. This would be both start and finish line. I think you could have a requirement that racers be reasonably close to the dock at finish so they don't finish on port tack on the west side of the channel.
  2. start at a specific clock time - ie 10am. The start time would be defined in the skipper's meeting.
  3. have people record their finish clock time as well as any personal timing input they used (such as endomondo). (some gps devices may ignore stationary time, and only accumulate time while moving depending on settings) 
  4. If we have an observer available, they could help by blowing an air horn at the start, and also record finish clock times. (ie, red sail, 12:34:56 pm)
My start strategy would be to get on the water several minutes before start, get upwind of the line, drop my rig, start my personal timer maybe 30 seconds before start, then uphaul and head across the line when I am sure the clock says 10:00.
Last year we had an undefined start line, and there was no consensus about when to start timers, so each person had their own individual start time, which makes it hard to verify elapsed time at the finish line.
Let me know what you think. I'm excited for the race this year - I think there will be more foilers and it will be more competitive.
Feel free to re-post this to NW windtalk if you want to get a discussion going. 
Brian
image.png

<image.png>

Brian Clark
 

If it’s 10-12 on the big lake it will be 0-5 in the channel. Not much fun. I think 20-25 is about right, and it will need to be windy to break 2 hours.
I do suggest practicing upwind and downwind foiling in strong wind prior to race...

Brian

On Sep 5, 2019, at 7:21 PM, Darius Lajauskas <dariuslajauskas@...> wrote:

Do we need really windy day 20-25mph for winduro?
No one is using anymore FW.
We need minimum 10-12mph all day no less. Foils will fly, longboards will glide well too.

Darius



On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 2:11 PM Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...> wrote:
Official Winduro 2019 Notice -
It's time to get the chat started, haha!
More info and details later... and for those who haven't done it before, please ask questions. Any question is fair game... there's no silly questions... we were all Winduro rookies the first time!!

*But this post will focus a bit more about how we handle the official Winduro Start *
Please read Brian's suggestion below... I like it and don't see any reason we can't do it this way There are many reasons "why" we always started the Winduro the traditional way, but I think it's time to evolve.
History (cause I think it's good to know where we came from) - In the beginning the Winduro was a summer event. I organized the first official Winduro in 1991 and it was sponsored by Bic Sports and Sturtevant's Ski and Windsurf Shop. A date was picked and we did the start out in the lake with a committee boat and buoys and a start line. We did it for a number of years and it was always very light wind, people used longboards and BIG sails, and it took many hours. Then the event went away.
It came back in the early 2000's probably thanks to Mark Dix and maybe Glenn and Rick - and other's I'm not sure. I was windsurfing locally all this time, but wasn't involved in windtalk or organizing events (I'd already done lots of that in the early 90's). Computers were better then, weather forecasting was better... and they did the Winduro in the Fall, hoping to get higher wind than we get in the summer.
Anyway for a long time now, the official fall Winduro always starts at the swim beach. Here's why. Mark (just like Brian below) liked a specific place to start the race so more precise times could be accounted for. The Winduro start and finish, has been the Newcastle Beach Swim Beach. You start your stopwatch, then do a "beach start" (or uphaul) and go... when you get back to the beach after some hours you stop your watch. Done. This worked in the fall, cause there's no lifeguards or swim beach rope buoy line. You couldn't do this in the summer, due to those factors.

So the Winduro evolved to "some windy Sat or Sun, from mid Sep to the end of Oct". And we announce it on Windtalk with approx. 48 hours notice!! Yes, it's too bad that many people who would like to attend, can't... due to family and work commitments. HOWEVER if we pick a random date in advance (so people can plan their life around it) we could end up with a rainy day and 5 mph wind... and we all agree that wouldn't be any fun. So we "cherry pick" a windy day during those approx. 6 weeks... and hope as many as possible can make it.

Back to the "Start sequence"... and what's new is windfoiling!!
You can't start the Winduro the traditional way with a windfoil. Because the hydrofoil sticks down 3' you can't "beach start" it. And because there's milfoil in the Newcastle swim beach area, the foil catches it. So you have to get out in the lake to really get going!!
Last year, was the second year we had windfoils… and it was amazing. The year before we had two - Mike B and Darius - but it wasn't quite windy enough for them, and their skills weren't as developed. But last year we had a bit more wind, and more foiler's with skills and fitness. And Brian stunned everyone (me anyway) by winning and setting a modern Winduro record !!!
And as he says below, this year there are way more skilled windfoiler's with the fitness to do the Winduro… so it will really be amazing!!

And this new start sequence suggestion is also good for the longboard and formula crowd. Here's why. Many newer longboard Winduro racers have told me, "it's very tough to get going downwind, from the swim beach, in high wind". And they're correct. Bad A$$ longboard racers like Mark D can do it easily, but it is VERY difficult. Many of us are worn out, just trying to get started and going downwind. And we STILL have the full Winduro to do!!
Brian's suggestion would work well for longboards - formula boards - windfoils - and any other windsurfer.

Over the next week... lets' get some comments from experienced Winduro racers and those who would like to do their first.
Thanks, Greg:)


From: Brian Clark <clarkbanse@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:12 AM
To: Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...>
Subject: Winduro Start
 
Hi Greg,
I was thinking about the winduro and had an idea to simplify the start this year. See attached aerial view.
  1. Use the line extended from the dock as the start line. see image. It is easy to look at the dock from the water and see that you are upwind of the line. This would be both start and finish line. I think you could have a requirement that racers be reasonably close to the dock at finish so they don't finish on port tack on the west side of the channel.
  2. start at a specific clock time - ie 10am. The start time would be defined in the skipper's meeting.
  3. have people record their finish clock time as well as any personal timing input they used (such as endomondo). (some gps devices may ignore stationary time, and only accumulate time while moving depending on settings) 
  4. If we have an observer available, they could help by blowing an air horn at the start, and also record finish clock times. (ie, red sail, 12:34:56 pm)
My start strategy would be to get on the water several minutes before start, get upwind of the line, drop my rig, start my personal timer maybe 30 seconds before start, then uphaul and head across the line when I am sure the clock says 10:00.
Last year we had an undefined start line, and there was no consensus about when to start timers, so each person had their own individual start time, which makes it hard to verify elapsed time at the finish line.
Let me know what you think. I'm excited for the race this year - I think there will be more foilers and it will be more competitive.
Feel free to re-post this to NW windtalk if you want to get a discussion going. 
Brian
image.png

<image.png>

Greg Mejlaender
 

Yes, we want enough wind to get windsurfers planing most the time... which gives us enough wind to get through the wind shadowed north side of Mercer Island.
Of course it's AWAYS really gusty... we will never get steady 15 knot wind all around the island... but with a forecast of 15-25 we usually end up with 10-20. I am always a bit surprised at who shows up besides the regular windtalk posters and longtime winduro racers. There will likely be 1 or 2 formula boards (last year was 1, I think). And there could be a big slalom board, although no one has done it officially. And raceboards are way more fun when they're planning. I don't want to spend several hours, so with wind from 10-25 mostly 15-20 people can do it in 2 to 3 hours. And of course even with that wind, there will be sections with 5 mph wind... it's always a wide mix of conditions.
Greg:)
P.S. - Many years, we've done it with a solid forecast of 10 to 20... And if we really get that, it's AWESOME. But so often with that forecast, we get mostly 5 to 10 all day around the island. And then it takes forever...

________________________________
From: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io> on behalf of Michal Prussak <michal@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 8:02 PM
To: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nw-windtalk] WINDURO 2019

I want at least 15-20.

Michal


On Sep 5, 2019, at 7:21 PM, Darius Lajauskas <dariuslajauskas@...<mailto:dariuslajauskas@...>> wrote:

Do we need really windy day 20-25mph for winduro?
No one is using anymore FW.
We need minimum 10-12mph all day no less. Foils will fly, longboards will glide well too.

Darius



On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 2:11 PM Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...<mailto:gregnw44@...>> wrote:
Official Winduro 2019 Notice -
It's time to get the chat started, haha!
More info and details later... and for those who haven't done it before, please ask questions. Any question is fair game... there's no silly questions... we were all Winduro rookies the first time!!

*But this post will focus a bit more about how we handle the official Winduro Start *
Please read Brian's suggestion below... I like it and don't see any reason we can't do it this way There are many reasons "why" we always started the Winduro the traditional way, but I think it's time to evolve.
History (cause I think it's good to know where we came from) - In the beginning the Winduro was a summer event. I organized the first official Winduro in 1991 and it was sponsored by Bic Sports and Sturtevant's Ski and Windsurf Shop. A date was picked and we did the start out in the lake with a committee boat and buoys and a start line. We did it for a number of years and it was always very light wind, people used longboards and BIG sails, and it took many hours. Then the event went away.
It came back in the early 2000's probably thanks to Mark Dix and maybe Glenn and Rick - and other's I'm not sure. I was windsurfing locally all this time, but wasn't involved in windtalk or organizing events (I'd already done lots of that in the early 90's). Computers were better then, weather forecasting was better... and they did the Winduro in the Fall, hoping to get higher wind than we get in the summer.
Anyway for a long time now, the official fall Winduro always starts at the swim beach. Here's why. Mark (just like Brian below) liked a specific place to start the race so more precise times could be accounted for. The Winduro start and finish, has been the Newcastle Beach Swim Beach. You start your stopwatch, then do a "beach start" (or uphaul) and go... when you get back to the beach after some hours you stop your watch. Done. This worked in the fall, cause there's no lifeguards or swim beach rope buoy line. You couldn't do this in the summer, due to those factors.

So the Winduro evolved to "some windy Sat or Sun, from mid Sep to the end of Oct". And we announce it on Windtalk with approx. 48 hours notice!! Yes, it's too bad that many people who would like to attend, can't... due to family and work commitments. HOWEVER if we pick a random date in advance (so people can plan their life around it) we could end up with a rainy day and 5 mph wind... and we all agree that wouldn't be any fun. So we "cherry pick" a windy day during those approx. 6 weeks... and hope as many as possible can make it.

Back to the "Start sequence"... and what's new is windfoiling!!
You can't start the Winduro the traditional way with a windfoil. Because the hydrofoil sticks down 3' you can't "beach start" it. And because there's milfoil in the Newcastle swim beach area, the foil catches it. So you have to get out in the lake to really get going!!
Last year, was the second year we had windfoils… and it was amazing. The year before we had two - Mike B and Darius - but it wasn't quite windy enough for them, and their skills weren't as developed. But last year we had a bit more wind, and more foiler's with skills and fitness. And Brian stunned everyone (me anyway) by winning and setting a modern Winduro record !!!
And as he says below, this year there are way more skilled windfoiler's with the fitness to do the Winduro… so it will really be amazing!!

And this new start sequence suggestion is also good for the longboard and formula crowd. Here's why. Many newer longboard Winduro racers have told me, "it's very tough to get going downwind, from the swim beach, in high wind". And they're correct. Bad A$$ longboard racers like Mark D can do it easily, but it is VERY difficult. Many of us are worn out, just trying to get started and going downwind. And we STILL have the full Winduro to do!!
Brian's suggestion would work well for longboards - formula boards - windfoils - and any other windsurfer.

Over the next week... lets' get some comments from experienced Winduro racers and those who would like to do their first.
Thanks, Greg:)

________________________________
From: Brian Clark <clarkbanse@...<mailto:clarkbanse@...>>
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:12 AM
To: Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...<mailto:gregnw44@...>>
Subject: Winduro Start

Hi Greg,
I was thinking about the winduro and had an idea to simplify the start this year. See attached aerial view.

1. Use the line extended from the dock as the start line. see image. It is easy to look at the dock from the water and see that you are upwind of the line. This would be both start and finish line. I think you could have a requirement that racers be reasonably close to the dock at finish so they don't finish on port tack on the west side of the channel.
2. start at a specific clock time - ie 10am. The start time would be defined in the skipper's meeting.
3. have people record their finish clock time as well as any personal timing input they used (such as endomondo). (some gps devices may ignore stationary time, and only accumulate time while moving depending on settings)
4. If we have an observer available, they could help by blowing an air horn at the start, and also record finish clock times. (ie, red sail, 12:34:56 pm)

My start strategy would be to get on the water several minutes before start, get upwind of the line, drop my rig, start my personal timer maybe 30 seconds before start, then uphaul and head across the line when I am sure the clock says 10:00.
Last year we had an undefined start line, and there was no consensus about when to start timers, so each person had their own individual start time, which makes it hard to verify elapsed time at the finish line.
Let me know what you think. I'm excited for the race this year - I think there will be more foilers and it will be more competitive.
Feel free to re-post this to NW windtalk if you want to get a discussion going.
Brian
[image.png]
<image.png>

Darius Lajauskas
 

Who's gonna be 1st do winduro with wing?

Darius

On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 9:09 PM Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...> wrote:
Yes, we want enough wind to get windsurfers planing most the time... which gives us enough wind to get through the wind shadowed north side of Mercer Island.
Of course it's AWAYS really gusty... we will never get steady 15 knot wind all around the island... but with a forecast of 15-25 we usually end up with 10-20. I am always a bit surprised at who shows up besides the regular windtalk posters and longtime winduro racers. There will likely be 1 or 2 formula boards (last year was 1, I think). And there could be a big slalom board, although no one has done it officially. And raceboards are way more fun when they're planning. I don't want to spend several hours, so with wind from 10-25 mostly 15-20 people can do it in 2 to 3 hours. And of course even with that wind, there will be sections with 5 mph wind... it's always a wide mix of conditions.
Greg:)
P.S.  - Many years, we've done it with a solid forecast of 10 to 20... And if we really get that, it's AWESOME. But so often with that forecast, we get mostly 5 to 10 all day around the island. And then it takes forever...

________________________________
From: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io> on behalf of Michal Prussak <michal@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 8:02 PM
To: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nw-windtalk] WINDURO 2019

I want at least 15-20.

Michal


On Sep 5, 2019, at 7:21 PM, Darius Lajauskas <dariuslajauskas@...<mailto:dariuslajauskas@...>> wrote:

Do we need really windy day 20-25mph for winduro?
No one is using anymore FW.
We need minimum 10-12mph all day no less. Foils will fly, longboards will glide well too.

Darius



On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 2:11 PM Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...<mailto:gregnw44@...>> wrote:
Official Winduro 2019 Notice -
It's time to get the chat started, haha!
More info and details later... and for those who haven't done it before, please ask questions. Any question is fair game... there's no silly questions... we were all Winduro rookies the first time!!

*But this post will focus a bit more about how we handle the official Winduro Start *
Please read Brian's suggestion below... I like it and don't see any reason we can't do it this way There are many reasons "why" we always started the Winduro the traditional way, but I think it's time to evolve.
History (cause I think it's good to know where we came from) - In the beginning the Winduro was a summer event. I organized the first official Winduro in 1991 and it was sponsored by Bic Sports and Sturtevant's Ski and Windsurf Shop. A date was picked and we did the start out in the lake with a committee boat and buoys and a start line. We did it for a number of years and it was always very light wind, people used longboards and BIG sails, and it took many hours. Then the event went away.
It came back in the early 2000's probably thanks to Mark Dix and maybe Glenn and Rick - and other's I'm not sure. I was windsurfing locally all this time, but wasn't involved in windtalk or organizing events (I'd already done lots of that in the early 90's). Computers were better then, weather forecasting was better... and they did the Winduro in the Fall, hoping to get higher wind than we get in the summer.
Anyway for a long time now, the official fall Winduro always starts at the swim beach. Here's why. Mark (just like Brian below) liked a specific place to start the race so more precise times could be accounted for. The Winduro start and finish, has been the Newcastle Beach Swim Beach. You start your stopwatch, then do a "beach start" (or uphaul) and go... when you get back to the beach after some hours you stop your watch. Done. This worked in the fall, cause there's no lifeguards or swim beach rope buoy line. You couldn't do this in the summer, due to those factors.

So the Winduro evolved to "some windy Sat or Sun, from mid Sep to the end of Oct". And we announce it on Windtalk with approx. 48 hours notice!! Yes, it's too bad that many people who would like to attend, can't... due to family and work commitments. HOWEVER if we pick a random date in advance (so people can plan their life around it) we could end up with a rainy day and 5 mph wind... and we all agree that wouldn't be any fun. So we "cherry pick" a windy day during those approx. 6 weeks... and hope as many as possible can make it.

Back to the "Start sequence"... and what's new is windfoiling!!
You can't start the Winduro the traditional way with a windfoil. Because the hydrofoil sticks down 3' you can't "beach start" it. And because there's milfoil in the Newcastle swim beach area, the foil catches it. So you have to get out in the lake to really get going!!
Last year, was the second year we had windfoils… and it was amazing. The year before we had two - Mike B and Darius - but it wasn't quite windy enough for them, and their skills weren't as developed. But last year we had a bit more wind, and more foiler's with skills and fitness. And Brian stunned everyone (me anyway) by winning and setting a modern Winduro record !!!
And as he says below, this year there are way more skilled windfoiler's with the fitness to do the Winduro… so it will really be amazing!!

And this new start sequence suggestion is also good for the longboard and formula crowd. Here's why. Many newer longboard Winduro racers have told me, "it's very tough to get going downwind, from the swim beach, in high wind". And they're correct. Bad A$$ longboard racers like Mark D can do it easily, but it is VERY difficult. Many of us are worn out, just trying to get started and going downwind. And we STILL have the full Winduro to do!!
Brian's suggestion would work well for longboards - formula boards - windfoils - and any other windsurfer.

Over the next week... lets' get some comments from experienced Winduro racers and those who would like to do their first.
Thanks, Greg:)

________________________________
From: Brian Clark <clarkbanse@...<mailto:clarkbanse@...>>
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:12 AM
To: Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...<mailto:gregnw44@...>>
Subject: Winduro Start

Hi Greg,
I was thinking about the winduro and had an idea to simplify the start this year. See attached aerial view.

  1.  Use the line extended from the dock as the start line. see image. It is easy to look at the dock from the water and see that you are upwind of the line. This would be both start and finish line. I think you could have a requirement that racers be reasonably close to the dock at finish so they don't finish on port tack on the west side of the channel.
  2.  start at a specific clock time - ie 10am. The start time would be defined in the skipper's meeting.
  3.  have people record their finish clock time as well as any personal timing input they used (such as endomondo). (some gps devices may ignore stationary time, and only accumulate time while moving depending on settings)
  4.  If we have an observer available, they could help by blowing an air horn at the start, and also record finish clock times. (ie, red sail, 12:34:56 pm)

My start strategy would be to get on the water several minutes before start, get upwind of the line, drop my rig, start my personal timer maybe 30 seconds before start, then uphaul and head across the line when I am sure the clock says 10:00.
Last year we had an undefined start line, and there was no consensus about when to start timers, so each person had their own individual start time, which makes it hard to verify elapsed time at the finish line.
Let me know what you think. I'm excited for the race this year - I think there will be more foilers and it will be more competitive.
Feel free to re-post this to NW windtalk if you want to get a discussion going.
Brian
[image.png]
<image.png>




Michael Bryan
 

Not me. I cannot even control the wing.

Dan Taylor
 

20 or more would nice, by end of September and I'd try to join in.
Dan

plamen69petkov@...
 

According to iW Saturday might be THE DAY

Thanks
Plamen

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 9:03 PM, Dan Taylor
<studio360@...> wrote:
20 or more would nice, by end of September and I'd try to join in.
Dan

Greg Mejlaender
 

I'm always skeptical about wind forecasts, this far out... But ok, I'm curious - what are they saying for this Sat?
Greg :)



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: "plamen69petkov via Groups.Io" <plamen69petkov@...>
Date: 9/9/19 8:07 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: nw-windtalk@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nw-windtalk] WINDURO 2019

According to iW Saturday might be THE DAY

Thanks
Plamen

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 9:03 PM, Dan Taylor
<studio360@...> wrote:
20 or more would nice, by end of September and I'd try to join in.
Dan

Emmett S.
 

Definitely too early to tell... forecast for Rainier Beach.

Peter
 

I think the foilers should start in the weeds that way us fin sailors ( I think there’s only about five of us left🙁) will have an edge for about ten minutes before they scream by us. Haha. Peter 

Greg Mejlaender
 

Haha - Peter that's hilarious (below:)

And it brings up another aspect of the Winduro Start... and that's the "staggered start" !!

Several years ago we began a new "system" for starting the Winduro… the goal was to get as many participants together in the Big Pond. This is the biggest open area of the Winduro course - the place where you can see the farthest - the place where you "might see" the most people spread over a large area. It's the area south of the I-90 Floating Bridge and up to the Seward Park slot... and it's "roughly" about 1/2 way around the island.
In early Winduro history we started the same way as most other races, all together. But in a race that's 20-30 miles around a tall island that's about a mile wide and 5 miles long, the racers (usually about 6 to 15 people) never saw each other after the first mile... as they were quickly spread out, with no visibility of each other. This is not as much fun, and or, just plain lonely... and you could even say "less safe"!!
So myself and a few others who know most all the participants, started "handicapping" people into a few groups. We put those with the least experience and or smallest sails (those we thought might go the slowest) in the first group... and those with the most experience and bigger sails started last. Some years we've had 3 groups, or 4 groups if you count Mark D as a one person group (since he has easily won the most Winduros in modern history, we make him start last:)
This staggered start system has worked VERY well (not perfect, but close)… and it's been very fun and more interesting to have a big group visible to each other for a long period of time over in the Big Pond. (Note - For accurate finishing results, each racer kept their own time clock. And the finishing order was their correct elapsed time... not their actual finish order back at Newcastle Beach.)

But last year was "uncharted waters"... we had several windfoils in the race for the first time (not just 1 or 2). And while the start goal was the same (lots of racers in the big pond at a similar time) it was unknown "how fast would the average foiler travel" downwind from the start / around the wind-shadowed N side of the island / and upwind and under the floating bridge. We thought that section "could be" slow for foiling, since it's tough (for newer foilers) to go downwind on the wing, and cause they'd be slow in less wind around the N shore. (It was assumed they would do quite well once they were on the windward side of the floating bridge, cause the Big Pond often has the very good wind.) So last year the windfoils started first. Actually, we might've started Bari and Peter first... then 20 min later, the windfoils… then 20 min later, the experienced raceboards… then 20 min later, Mark:)
And it all worked out quite well, like usual... except the windfoils were faster than expected for the first 1/3 of the course. And they had a bit more wind, when they started. Later when the raceboards and Mark started, the wind had dropped. All in all, around the whole island, the wind averaged out... but suffice to say, windfoils did VERY well.
Brian C (on a 2004 Go board and 2016 designed Slingshot alum foil with H2 wing), and a taped-up 2000 Sailworks 7.4 race sail) set a very fast time... maybe one of the fastest ever (I don't have any records) !!! 

Fast forward to this year!!
All the experienced windfoiler's (we know who you are) and the experienced longboarder's will start together!!
We will still start the less experienced longboarder's and "possibly" a very inexperienced foiler with a small sail, earlier. Because we still want to try and get the bulk of the racers in the Pond at the same time!

Incorporating Brian's new start suggestion to this will be fine.
For Winduro Day we want a wind forecast of VERY GOOD wind all day!!  That means the same direction wind, all day... it could gradually shift from SE to S to SW over 8 hours, that's fine. But we won't go with a strong W wind component, or CZ (convergence zone) coming and going. And we'd like a wind speed of 15-20 please, which could mean a forecast of 10-25... and we'll still have holes with 5 mph wind and possible gusts, or 10 min rain squalls to 30. But steady 15-20 is our "Goldilocks" conditions.
The morning of the Winduro Skipper's Meeting, we'll have an idea "when" we'll get 8 hours of the most consistent wind. It could be from 9am to 5pm... or 11am till 7pm, whatever. And we'll announce the start for Group One at "X" time (as per Brian's email with pic). And we'll announce the start time for Group Two (probably most everyone else) for 20-30 min after Group One (depending on actual wind and "who" is there).
As usual, wear a $25 waterproof watch from Fred Meyer, Target, Bartell's, etc. (or your cell, with app, in a water-prrof bag) to record your personal time.
But I like the idea (in Brian's email) of someone out on the Newcastle Dock sounding an air horn or blowing a whistle at the START time for both group 1 and Group 2. It will keep everyone much closer!

Helpful thoughts?  Ideas... suggestions??
Greg:)


From: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io> on behalf of Peter <woodsong.peter@...>
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 5:52 PM
To: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nw-windtalk] WINDURO 2019
 
I think the foilers should start in the weeds that way us fin sailors ( I think there’s only about five of us left🙁) will have an edge for about ten minutes before they scream by us. Haha. Peter 

Greg Mejlaender
 

Thanks Plamen for the advance notice on Mon - that this Sat "might" be a good Winduro Day!
And thanks Emmett for the screen shot of the Sat wind forecast.
As of overnight Tue into Wed... I still don't see any good info from NOAA or the mm5 maps, regarding "very good wind" for Sat.

But I see the iWindsurf free forecast on the "7 day detailed forecast" is showing decent wind for Sat. The direction is SW all day, and the wind speed from about 10am - 5pm is about 10-20 mph wind. If "that" really happened, it'd be fine. But will THAT happen?

My question is - Can all you who have experience using this iW 7 day forecast chime in with it's reliability??
Specifically, all you who use this 7 day forecast - what % of time it is correct? 
I've never used it... so would appreciate any data. Greg:)


From: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io> on behalf of Emmett S. <penclickprods@...>
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 10:46 AM
To: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nw-windtalk] WINDURO 2019
 
Definitely too early to tell... forecast for Rainier Beach.

Michal Prussak
 

I doubt this Saturday will work well. Or I should say, well enough for the 20+ winds. Here is the iWindsurf Pro forecast:

Sat, Sep 14 2019

Another frontal boundary approaches and moves into the area by late in the day. SW winds fade in the morning then pick up again as the front approaches. Clouds and showers increase during the late afternoon making for gusty winds.

Bottom Line: Purdy SSW low teens. Lake Washington and Golden Gardens SW faint low/mid-teens late. Jetty Island and Marrowstone S mid-teens. Boundary Bay and Bellingham S/SSE mid/upper teens. Squamish sees afternoon SW solid low/mid 20s.



NOAA is showing 14 mph on the big pond.


I need to decide today what to commit to on the weekend. Based on this forecast, it won't be the Winduro.



On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 3:01 AM Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...> wrote:
Thanks Plamen for the advance notice on Mon - that this Sat "might" be a good Winduro Day!
And thanks Emmett for the screen shot of the Sat wind forecast.
As of overnight Tue into Wed... I still don't see any good info from NOAA or the mm5 maps, regarding "very good wind" for Sat.

But I see the iWindsurf free forecast on the "7 day detailed forecast" is showing decent wind for Sat. The direction is SW all day, and the wind speed from about 10am - 5pm is about 10-20 mph wind. If "that" really happened, it'd be fine. But will THAT happen?

My question is - Can all you who have experience using this iW 7 day forecast chime in with it's reliability??
Specifically, all you who use this 7 day forecast - what % of time it is correct? 
I've never used it... so would appreciate any data. Greg:)


From: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io> on behalf of Emmett S. <penclickprods@...>
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 10:46 AM
To: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nw-windtalk] WINDURO 2019
 
Definitely too early to tell... forecast for Rainier Beach.

Brian Clark
 

I agree. Does not seem like a winduro worthy forecast yet.

Brian

On Sep 11, 2019, at 7:09 AM, Michal Prussak <michal@...> wrote:

I doubt this Saturday will work well. Or I should say, well enough for the 20+ winds. Here is the iWindsurf Pro forecast:

Sat, Sep 14 2019

Another frontal boundary approaches and moves into the area by late in the day. SW winds fade in the morning then pick up again as the front approaches. Clouds and showers increase during the late afternoon making for gusty winds.

Bottom Line: Purdy SSW low teens. Lake Washington and Golden Gardens SW faint low/mid-teens late. Jetty Island and Marrowstone S mid-teens. Boundary Bay and Bellingham S/SSE mid/upper teens. Squamish sees afternoon SW solid low/mid 20s.



NOAA is showing 14 mph on the big pond.


I need to decide today what to commit to on the weekend. Based on this forecast, it won't be the Winduro.



On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 3:01 AM Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...> wrote:
Thanks Plamen for the advance notice on Mon - that this Sat "might" be a good Winduro Day!
And thanks Emmett for the screen shot of the Sat wind forecast.
As of overnight Tue into Wed... I still don't see any good info from NOAA or the mm5 maps, regarding "very good wind" for Sat.

But I see the iWindsurf free forecast on the "7 day detailed forecast" is showing decent wind for Sat. The direction is SW all day, and the wind speed from about 10am - 5pm is about 10-20 mph wind. If "that" really happened, it'd be fine. But will THAT happen?

My question is - Can all you who have experience using this iW 7 day forecast chime in with it's reliability??
Specifically, all you who use this 7 day forecast - what % of time it is correct? 
I've never used it... so would appreciate any data. Greg:)


From: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io> on behalf of Emmett S. <penclickprods@...>
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 10:46 AM
To: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nw-windtalk] WINDURO 2019
 
Definitely too early to tell... forecast for Rainier Beach.

<2019-09-09 10_44_43-Start.png>

Greg Mejlaender
 

Yeah I also agree.

Just now with the Wed 9am update the NOAA forecast for Sat gets a bit more specific saying S wind 10-20 becoming 5-15. Of course this will change, it's only Wed morning.
And usually (not always, but usually) a NOAA forecast of 10-20 means, a solid 5-15 on the Lake.

Michal, where do you get a specific NOAA forecast, as you said for the Big Pond. I mean I know they don't list "Big Pond" but where do you get specific NOAA location forecasts like that?
Greg -


From: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io> on behalf of Brian Clark <clarkbanse@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 8:51 AM
To: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nw-windtalk] WINDURO 2019
 
I agree. Does not seem like a winduro worthy forecast yet.

Brian

On Sep 11, 2019, at 7:09 AM, Michal Prussak <michal@...> wrote:

I doubt this Saturday will work well. Or I should say, well enough for the 20+ winds. Here is the iWindsurf Pro forecast:

Sat, Sep 14 2019

Another frontal boundary approaches and moves into the area by late in the day. SW winds fade in the morning then pick up again as the front approaches. Clouds and showers increase during the late afternoon making for gusty winds.

Bottom Line: Purdy SSW low teens. Lake Washington and Golden Gardens SW faint low/mid-teens late. Jetty Island and Marrowstone S mid-teens. Boundary Bay and Bellingham S/SSE mid/upper teens. Squamish sees afternoon SW solid low/mid 20s.



NOAA is showing 14 mph on the big pond.


I need to decide today what to commit to on the weekend. Based on this forecast, it won't be the Winduro.



On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 3:01 AM Greg Mejlaender <gregnw44@...> wrote:
Thanks Plamen for the advance notice on Mon - that this Sat "might" be a good Winduro Day!
And thanks Emmett for the screen shot of the Sat wind forecast.
As of overnight Tue into Wed... I still don't see any good info from NOAA or the mm5 maps, regarding "very good wind" for Sat.

But I see the iWindsurf free forecast on the "7 day detailed forecast" is showing decent wind for Sat. The direction is SW all day, and the wind speed from about 10am - 5pm is about 10-20 mph wind. If "that" really happened, it'd be fine. But will THAT happen?

My question is - Can all you who have experience using this iW 7 day forecast chime in with it's reliability??
Specifically, all you who use this 7 day forecast - what % of time it is correct? 
I've never used it... so would appreciate any data. Greg:)


From: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io> on behalf of Emmett S. <penclickprods@...>
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 10:46 AM
To: nw-windtalk@groups.io <nw-windtalk@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nw-windtalk] WINDURO 2019
 
Definitely too early to tell... forecast for Rainier Beach.

<2019-09-09 10_44_43-Start.png>

Emmett S.
 

On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 03:01 AM, Greg Mejlaender wrote:
Can all you who have experience using this iW 7 day forecast chime in with it's reliability??
I've checked windfinder religiously for a couple months now to determine its reliability.... and it is not very. The basic forecast (using NOAA's GFS model, shown in the posted pictures) is never very accurate past 3 days anyway. The best way I've found to utilize this specific forecast site is to compare the GFS model to their physical "Superforecast" model. As they state on the site: If they agree with each other, it's typically a good forecast.





You can see below that in just 2 days, the forecast of the GFS model has changed a lot.

Emmett S.
 

I'm still new so I don't have much experience with different weather models yet. I saw Mike B uses iWindsurf which I haven't checked out yet.

Is there a more-or-less general consensus on which forecast is the most reliable?

Michael Bryan
 

Hi Emmett. I use iWindsurf but also I use weather underground and the mm5 maps .
happy sailing.