Topics

Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

Akash Kakkar
 

Hi all,
So, finally, we have started getting alpha releases based on Python3.
I was wondering, that when NVDA version 2019.3 will be released later
this year, which improvements/features/fixes will be able to observe
from NVDA_Python2 to NVDA_Python3?

 

Hi,
The biggest change you'll notice is text handling - no more distinction between bytes and Unicode as far as regular text handling is concerned; when it comes to specialized situations, knowing what you are working will become important.
There are other changes you may see (depending on which modules gets included), including:
* Enum: enumeration becomes way easier.
* Chain map: basically, a dictionary of dictionaries where items are fetched from the topmost map (first dictionary).
* Barriers: a way to tell multiple threads to wait for each other before released all at once.
* Async/await: working with asynchronous generators, a bit advanced at the moment.
* No more pyo files: gone in Python 3.5.
* Time-based thread switching: Python 2 employs instruction count when switching between threads, whereas Python 3 uses timers.
* Faster file system traversal: os.scandir is introduced, which uses generators to traverse directories. Several os module functions use scandir internally to speed things up.

Some things that may make its way to NvDA in future Python 3 releases:
* Assignment expressions (:=): part of Python 3.8, it allows some (if not all) conditional statements to become a bit more readable.
* Breakpoint hooks (part of 3.7 I believe): one can override sys.breakpointhook so something other than Python Debugger (pdb) can be invoked to debug NVDA; the most likely scenario is allowing Visual Studio debugger to debug NVDA if given a chance.

Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Akash Kakkar
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:30 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

Hi all,
So, finally, we have started getting alpha releases based on Python3.
I was wondering, that when NVDA version 2019.3 will be released later this year, which improvements/features/fixes will be able to observe from NVDA_Python2 to NVDA_Python3?

Akash Kakkar
 

Wow, that's excellent!
And, what will be the user facing changes?
with the responsiveness and speed be improved?
Will it still be in 32 bit or this time 64 bit is also in plan?

On 7/27/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
The biggest change you'll notice is text handling - no more distinction
between bytes and Unicode as far as regular text handling is concerned; when
it comes to specialized situations, knowing what you are working will become
important.
There are other changes you may see (depending on which modules gets
included), including:
* Enum: enumeration becomes way easier.
* Chain map: basically, a dictionary of dictionaries where items are fetched
from the topmost map (first dictionary).
* Barriers: a way to tell multiple threads to wait for each other before
released all at once.
* Async/await: working with asynchronous generators, a bit advanced at the
moment.
* No more pyo files: gone in Python 3.5.
* Time-based thread switching: Python 2 employs instruction count when
switching between threads, whereas Python 3 uses timers.
* Faster file system traversal: os.scandir is introduced, which uses
generators to traverse directories. Several os module functions use scandir
internally to speed things up.

Some things that may make its way to NvDA in future Python 3 releases:
* Assignment expressions (:=): part of Python 3.8, it allows some (if not
all) conditional statements to become a bit more readable.
* Breakpoint hooks (part of 3.7 I believe): one can override
sys.breakpointhook so something other than Python Debugger (pdb) can be
invoked to debug NVDA; the most likely scenario is allowing Visual Studio
debugger to debug NVDA if given a chance.

Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Akash Kakkar
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:30 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

Hi all,
So, finally, we have started getting alpha releases based on Python3.
I was wondering, that when NVDA version 2019.3 will be released later this
year, which improvements/features/fixes will be able to observe from
NVDA_Python2 to NVDA_Python3?






 

Hi,
Expect some things with speed, and for multilingual speakers, a chance to deal with multiple languages more consistently (at least I would imagine that will be the case). Also, more Unicode characters will be recognized.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Akash Kakkar
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 9:24 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

Wow, that's excellent!
And, what will be the user facing changes?
with the responsiveness and speed be improved?
Will it still be in 32 bit or this time 64 bit is also in plan?

On 7/27/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
The biggest change you'll notice is text handling - no more
distinction between bytes and Unicode as far as regular text handling
is concerned; when it comes to specialized situations, knowing what
you are working will become important.
There are other changes you may see (depending on which modules gets
included), including:
* Enum: enumeration becomes way easier.
* Chain map: basically, a dictionary of dictionaries where items are
fetched from the topmost map (first dictionary).
* Barriers: a way to tell multiple threads to wait for each other
before released all at once.
* Async/await: working with asynchronous generators, a bit advanced at
the moment.
* No more pyo files: gone in Python 3.5.
* Time-based thread switching: Python 2 employs instruction count when
switching between threads, whereas Python 3 uses timers.
* Faster file system traversal: os.scandir is introduced, which uses
generators to traverse directories. Several os module functions use
scandir internally to speed things up.

Some things that may make its way to NvDA in future Python 3 releases:
* Assignment expressions (:=): part of Python 3.8, it allows some (if
not
all) conditional statements to become a bit more readable.
* Breakpoint hooks (part of 3.7 I believe): one can override
sys.breakpointhook so something other than Python Debugger (pdb) can
be invoked to debug NVDA; the most likely scenario is allowing Visual
Studio debugger to debug NVDA if given a chance.

Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Akash
Kakkar
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:30 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

Hi all,
So, finally, we have started getting alpha releases based on Python3.
I was wondering, that when NVDA version 2019.3 will be released later
this year, which improvements/features/fixes will be able to observe
from
NVDA_Python2 to NVDA_Python3?






Akash Kakkar
 

ok

On 7/27/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
Expect some things with speed, and for multilingual speakers, a chance to
deal with multiple languages more consistently (at least I would imagine
that will be the case). Also, more Unicode characters will be recognized.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Akash Kakkar
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 9:24 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

Wow, that's excellent!
And, what will be the user facing changes?
with the responsiveness and speed be improved?
Will it still be in 32 bit or this time 64 bit is also in plan?

On 7/27/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
The biggest change you'll notice is text handling - no more
distinction between bytes and Unicode as far as regular text handling
is concerned; when it comes to specialized situations, knowing what
you are working will become important.
There are other changes you may see (depending on which modules gets
included), including:
* Enum: enumeration becomes way easier.
* Chain map: basically, a dictionary of dictionaries where items are
fetched from the topmost map (first dictionary).
* Barriers: a way to tell multiple threads to wait for each other
before released all at once.
* Async/await: working with asynchronous generators, a bit advanced at
the moment.
* No more pyo files: gone in Python 3.5.
* Time-based thread switching: Python 2 employs instruction count when
switching between threads, whereas Python 3 uses timers.
* Faster file system traversal: os.scandir is introduced, which uses
generators to traverse directories. Several os module functions use
scandir internally to speed things up.

Some things that may make its way to NvDA in future Python 3 releases:
* Assignment expressions (:=): part of Python 3.8, it allows some (if
not
all) conditional statements to become a bit more readable.
* Breakpoint hooks (part of 3.7 I believe): one can override
sys.breakpointhook so something other than Python Debugger (pdb) can
be invoked to debug NVDA; the most likely scenario is allowing Visual
Studio debugger to debug NVDA if given a chance.

Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Akash
Kakkar
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:30 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

Hi all,
So, finally, we have started getting alpha releases based on Python3.
I was wondering, that when NVDA version 2019.3 will be released later
this year, which improvements/features/fixes will be able to observe
from
NVDA_Python2 to NVDA_Python3?











Brian's Mail list account
 

I'm not aware of a 64 bit version I note that Even Jaws has bits in 32 and bits in 64 bit. I guess this raises a whole new set of issues about threading and memory use etc though.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
This message sent from a Windows XP machine!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <@joslee>
To: <nvda-devel@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3


Hi,
Expect some things with speed, and for multilingual speakers, a chance to deal with multiple languages more consistently (at least I would imagine that will be the case). Also, more Unicode characters will be recognized.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Akash Kakkar
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 9:24 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

Wow, that's excellent!
And, what will be the user facing changes?
with the responsiveness and speed be improved?
Will it still be in 32 bit or this time 64 bit is also in plan?

On 7/27/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
The biggest change you'll notice is text handling - no more
distinction between bytes and Unicode as far as regular text handling
is concerned; when it comes to specialized situations, knowing what
you are working will become important.
There are other changes you may see (depending on which modules gets
included), including:
* Enum: enumeration becomes way easier.
* Chain map: basically, a dictionary of dictionaries where items are
fetched from the topmost map (first dictionary).
* Barriers: a way to tell multiple threads to wait for each other
before released all at once.
* Async/await: working with asynchronous generators, a bit advanced at
the moment.
* No more pyo files: gone in Python 3.5.
* Time-based thread switching: Python 2 employs instruction count when
switching between threads, whereas Python 3 uses timers.
* Faster file system traversal: os.scandir is introduced, which uses
generators to traverse directories. Several os module functions use
scandir internally to speed things up.

Some things that may make its way to NvDA in future Python 3 releases:
* Assignment expressions (:=): part of Python 3.8, it allows some (if
not
all) conditional statements to become a bit more readable.
* Breakpoint hooks (part of 3.7 I believe): one can override
sys.breakpointhook so something other than Python Debugger (pdb) can
be invoked to debug NVDA; the most likely scenario is allowing Visual
Studio debugger to debug NVDA if given a chance.

Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Akash
Kakkar
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:30 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

Hi all,
So, finally, we have started getting alpha releases based on Python3.
I was wondering, that when NVDA version 2019.3 will be released later
this year, which improvements/features/fixes will be able to observe
from
NVDA_Python2 to NVDA_Python3?






Robert Hänggi
 

On 27/07/2019, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
I'm not aware of a 64 bit version I note that Even Jaws has bits in 32 and
bits in 64 bit. I guess this raises a whole new set of issues about
threading and memory use etc though.
I don't think so. The communication for NVDA64 should be easier
because it can work with the 48 bits of the 64bit pointers and cast to
32 bit for the other applications.
Also, it would make its memory in the lower 2 GB allocation available
for other 32-bit applications and thus unblocking a possible
performance bottle neck.

But of course, Murphys law strikes in the most unusual ways back.
Robert
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
This message sent from a Windows XP machine!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <@joslee>
To: <nvda-devel@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3


Hi,
Expect some things with speed, and for multilingual speakers, a chance to
deal with multiple languages more consistently (at least I would imagine
that will be the case). Also, more Unicode characters will be recognized.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Akash Kakkar
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 9:24 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

Wow, that's excellent!
And, what will be the user facing changes?
with the responsiveness and speed be improved?
Will it still be in 32 bit or this time 64 bit is also in plan?

On 7/27/19, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
The biggest change you'll notice is text handling - no more
distinction between bytes and Unicode as far as regular text handling
is concerned; when it comes to specialized situations, knowing what
you are working will become important.
There are other changes you may see (depending on which modules gets
included), including:
* Enum: enumeration becomes way easier.
* Chain map: basically, a dictionary of dictionaries where items are
fetched from the topmost map (first dictionary).
* Barriers: a way to tell multiple threads to wait for each other
before released all at once.
* Async/await: working with asynchronous generators, a bit advanced at
the moment.
* No more pyo files: gone in Python 3.5.
* Time-based thread switching: Python 2 employs instruction count when
switching between threads, whereas Python 3 uses timers.
* Faster file system traversal: os.scandir is introduced, which uses
generators to traverse directories. Several os module functions use
scandir internally to speed things up.

Some things that may make its way to NvDA in future Python 3 releases:
* Assignment expressions (:=): part of Python 3.8, it allows some (if
not
all) conditional statements to become a bit more readable.
* Breakpoint hooks (part of 3.7 I believe): one can override
sys.breakpointhook so something other than Python Debugger (pdb) can
be invoked to debug NVDA; the most likely scenario is allowing Visual
Studio debugger to debug NVDA if given a chance.

Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Akash
Kakkar
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:30 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

Hi all,
So, finally, we have started getting alpha releases based on Python3.
I was wondering, that when NVDA version 2019.3 will be released later
this year, which improvements/features/fixes will be able to observe
from
NVDA_Python2 to NVDA_Python3?














 

Hello,


As far as I"m aware, there are currently no plans to create an x64 version of NVDA. No one stops anyone from putting some research into it, but I think the benefits it would have are mostly theoretical ones. It should be noted that we wouldn't be able to cover x86 systems with such a build of NVDA, so that's probably the most major reason not to investigate it further at this time.


Regards,

Leonard


 

Hi,

Another downside is that x64 NVDA build won’t run on ARM64 on older Windows 10 releases because the emulator only supports x86 32-bit, although moving to 64-bit means a native ARM build becomes theoretically possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Leonard de Ruijter
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:07 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hello,

 

As far as I"m aware, there are currently no plans to create an x64 version of NVDA. No one stops anyone from putting some research into it, but I think the benefits it would have are mostly theoretical ones. It should be noted that we wouldn't be able to cover x86 systems with such a build of NVDA, so that's probably the most major reason not to investigate it further at this time.

 

Regards,

Leonard

 

Robert Hänggi
 

Yes, it's strictly hypothetical.
Needless to say that both versions had to coexist/be available.
We move Audacity to 64-bit for the simple reason that the newest MacOS
doesn't support 32-bit applications any more.
This is evidently not touching NVDA but no one knows if at some time
Python or WXWidgets will drop 32-bit as well.

On 30/07/2019, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,

Another downside is that x64 NVDA build won’t run on ARM64 on older Windows
10 releases because the emulator only supports x86 32-bit, although moving
to 64-bit means a native ARM build becomes theoretically possible.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Leonard de
Ruijter
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:07 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3



Hello,



As far as I"m aware, there are currently no plans to create an x64 version
of NVDA. No one stops anyone from putting some research into it, but I think
the benefits it would have are mostly theoretical ones. It should be noted
that we wouldn't be able to cover x86 systems with such a build of NVDA, so
that's probably the most major reason not to investigate it further at this
time.



Regards,

Leonard








Akash Kakkar
 

Python and wxpython will drop 32 bit support for sure in near future.
I've read this announcement before a long time ago. This dropping off
is in their pipeline, may be for python 4 or python 5

On 7/30/19, Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@...> wrote:
Yes, it's strictly hypothetical.
Needless to say that both versions had to coexist/be available.
We move Audacity to 64-bit for the simple reason that the newest MacOS
doesn't support 32-bit applications any more.
This is evidently not touching NVDA but no one knows if at some time
Python or WXWidgets will drop 32-bit as well.

On 30/07/2019, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,

Another downside is that x64 NVDA build won’t run on ARM64 on older
Windows
10 releases because the emulator only supports x86 32-bit, although
moving
to 64-bit means a native ARM build becomes theoretically possible.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Leonard de
Ruijter
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:07 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3



Hello,



As far as I"m aware, there are currently no plans to create an x64
version
of NVDA. No one stops anyone from putting some research into it, but I
think
the benefits it would have are mostly theoretical ones. It should be
noted
that we wouldn't be able to cover x86 systems with such a build of NVDA,
so
that's probably the most major reason not to investigate it further at
this
time.



Regards,

Leonard










enes sarıbaş
 

Hi Joseph,

Couldn't these issues be solved by having two installers (32 and 64 bit), instead of one?

Best,

Enes

On 7/30/2019 10:22 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Another downside is that x64 NVDA build won’t run on ARM64 on older Windows 10 releases because the emulator only supports x86 32-bit, although moving to 64-bit means a native ARM build becomes theoretically possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Leonard de Ruijter
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:07 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hello,

 

As far as I"m aware, there are currently no plans to create an x64 version of NVDA. No one stops anyone from putting some research into it, but I think the benefits it would have are mostly theoretical ones. It should be noted that we wouldn't be able to cover x86 systems with such a build of NVDA, so that's probably the most major reason not to investigate it further at this time.

 

Regards,

Leonard

 

 

Hi,

I think we discussed this at length a while ago, and consensus is that it is better to keep them as one for ease of portability.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 8:24 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hi Joseph,

Couldn't these issues be solved by having two installers (32 and 64 bit), instead of one?

Best,

Enes

On 7/30/2019 10:22 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Another downside is that x64 NVDA build won’t run on ARM64 on older Windows 10 releases because the emulator only supports x86 32-bit, although moving to 64-bit means a native ARM build becomes theoretically possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Leonard de Ruijter
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:07 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hello,

 

As far as I"m aware, there are currently no plans to create an x64 version of NVDA. No one stops anyone from putting some research into it, but I think the benefits it would have are mostly theoretical ones. It should be noted that we wouldn't be able to cover x86 systems with such a build of NVDA, so that's probably the most major reason not to investigate it further at this time.

 

Regards,

Leonard

 

enes sarıbaş
 

Hi Joseph,

In that case, couldn't there be a web installer, which checks operating system version, and downloads the correct version based on that information? Firefox for example does this.


On 7/31/2019 10:25 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

I think we discussed this at length a while ago, and consensus is that it is better to keep them as one for ease of portability.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 8:24 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hi Joseph,

Couldn't these issues be solved by having two installers (32 and 64 bit), instead of one?

Best,

Enes

On 7/30/2019 10:22 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Another downside is that x64 NVDA build won’t run on ARM64 on older Windows 10 releases because the emulator only supports x86 32-bit, although moving to 64-bit means a native ARM build becomes theoretically possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Leonard de Ruijter
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:07 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hello,

 

As far as I"m aware, there are currently no plans to create an x64 version of NVDA. No one stops anyone from putting some research into it, but I think the benefits it would have are mostly theoretical ones. It should be noted that we wouldn't be able to cover x86 systems with such a build of NVDA, so that's probably the most major reason not to investigate it further at this time.

 

Regards,

Leonard

 

 

Hi,

This also means storing at least two binaries on the server, which might not be ideal if one wishes to create a portable copy that can run anywhere.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 4:44 PM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hi Joseph,

In that case, couldn't there be a web installer, which checks operating system version, and downloads the correct version based on that information? Firefox for example does this.

 

On 7/31/2019 10:25 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

I think we discussed this at length a while ago, and consensus is that it is better to keep them as one for ease of portability.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 8:24 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hi Joseph,

Couldn't these issues be solved by having two installers (32 and 64 bit), instead of one?

Best,

Enes

On 7/30/2019 10:22 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Another downside is that x64 NVDA build won’t run on ARM64 on older Windows 10 releases because the emulator only supports x86 32-bit, although moving to 64-bit means a native ARM build becomes theoretically possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Leonard de Ruijter
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:07 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hello,

 

As far as I"m aware, there are currently no plans to create an x64 version of NVDA. No one stops anyone from putting some research into it, but I think the benefits it would have are mostly theoretical ones. It should be noted that we wouldn't be able to cover x86 systems with such a build of NVDA, so that's probably the most major reason not to investigate it further at this time.

 

Regards,

Leonard

 

enes sarıbaş
 

Hi Joseph,

Couldn't a portable copy have both versions inside the folder, and again launch correct version based on the operating system architecture?

Best,

Enes


On 7/31/2019 6:45 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

This also means storing at least two binaries on the server, which might not be ideal if one wishes to create a portable copy that can run anywhere.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 4:44 PM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hi Joseph,

In that case, couldn't there be a web installer, which checks operating system version, and downloads the correct version based on that information? Firefox for example does this.

 

On 7/31/2019 10:25 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

I think we discussed this at length a while ago, and consensus is that it is better to keep them as one for ease of portability.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 8:24 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hi Joseph,

Couldn't these issues be solved by having two installers (32 and 64 bit), instead of one?

Best,

Enes

On 7/30/2019 10:22 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Another downside is that x64 NVDA build won’t run on ARM64 on older Windows 10 releases because the emulator only supports x86 32-bit, although moving to 64-bit means a native ARM build becomes theoretically possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Leonard de Ruijter
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:07 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hello,

 

As far as I"m aware, there are currently no plans to create an x64 version of NVDA. No one stops anyone from putting some research into it, but I think the benefits it would have are mostly theoretical ones. It should be noted that we wouldn't be able to cover x86 systems with such a build of NVDA, so that's probably the most major reason not to investigate it further at this time.

 

Regards,

Leonard

 

 

Hi,

It is partially there. Even if one does run a native 64-bit executable, the native app must still launch a 32-bit communicator app when it wishes to talk to 32-bit apps.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 4:47 PM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hi Joseph,

Couldn't a portable copy have both versions inside the folder, and again launch correct version based on the operating system architecture?

Best,

Enes

 

On 7/31/2019 6:45 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

This also means storing at least two binaries on the server, which might not be ideal if one wishes to create a portable copy that can run anywhere.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 4:44 PM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hi Joseph,

In that case, couldn't there be a web installer, which checks operating system version, and downloads the correct version based on that information? Firefox for example does this.

 

On 7/31/2019 10:25 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

I think we discussed this at length a while ago, and consensus is that it is better to keep them as one for ease of portability.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 8:24 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hi Joseph,

Couldn't these issues be solved by having two installers (32 and 64 bit), instead of one?

Best,

Enes

On 7/30/2019 10:22 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Another downside is that x64 NVDA build won’t run on ARM64 on older Windows 10 releases because the emulator only supports x86 32-bit, although moving to 64-bit means a native ARM build becomes theoretically possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Leonard de Ruijter
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:07 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hello,

 

As far as I"m aware, there are currently no plans to create an x64 version of NVDA. No one stops anyone from putting some research into it, but I think the benefits it would have are mostly theoretical ones. It should be noted that we wouldn't be able to cover x86 systems with such a build of NVDA, so that's probably the most major reason not to investigate it further at this time.

 

Regards,

Leonard

 

Travis Siegel
 

Seriously folks, 64-bit NVDA is a nice to have, not a necessity.  There are multiple 3rd party libraries NVDA relies on, and unless each and every one of those are ported to 64-bit, producing a 64-bit version won't help.  Also, in general, unless a program uses large amounts of memory, or does other cpu intensive tasks, 64-bit versions will provide no benefit.  Often times, this rush to get everything to 64-bit actually hurts a program's performance, because the program is not optimized for 64-bit functionality, and the program suffers performance penalties as a result.  Joseph is doing the right thing here by working into the transition from python 2 to 3 slowly, and looking at 64-bit conversion later.  There's no benefit to producing a 64-bit version of NVDA if all of the speech synthesizers use 32-bit versions, that will at best provide no benefit, and at worst, make the program unstable.  We really don't want that, so folks, hold your horses, take a deep breath, and know that 64-bit versions of NVDA will appear when the developers determine it's appropriate to do so, and not before.  It's a voluntary effort, and nobody is going to benefit from a 64-bit version if it doesn't operate properly.

On 7/31/2019 7:45 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

This also means storing at least two binaries on the server, which might not be ideal if one wishes to create a portable copy that can run anywhere.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 4:44 PM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hi Joseph,

In that case, couldn't there be a web installer, which checks operating system version, and downloads the correct version based on that information? Firefox for example does this.

 

On 7/31/2019 10:25 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

I think we discussed this at length a while ago, and consensus is that it is better to keep them as one for ease of portability.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 8:24 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hi Joseph,

Couldn't these issues be solved by having two installers (32 and 64 bit), instead of one?

Best,

Enes

On 7/30/2019 10:22 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Another downside is that x64 NVDA build won’t run on ARM64 on older Windows 10 releases because the emulator only supports x86 32-bit, although moving to 64-bit means a native ARM build becomes theoretically possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Leonard de Ruijter
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:07 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Query regarding the porting of NVDA to Python3

 

Hello,

 

As far as I"m aware, there are currently no plans to create an x64 version of NVDA. No one stops anyone from putting some research into it, but I think the benefits it would have are mostly theoretical ones. It should be noted that we wouldn't be able to cover x86 systems with such a build of NVDA, so that's probably the most major reason not to investigate it further at this time.

 

Regards,

Leonard

 


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