Topics

FW: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5 Loquendo

 

Hi,
Can we verify that speech refactor is to blame for the issues we're seeing here? Don't worry about Eloquence bit.
Cheers,
Jsoeph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 6:46 AM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5 Loquendo

Sorry, but if Loquendo is a SAPI5 synth, it do not have any proprietary driver, since it will use the SAPI5 driver, and this one is made by NVDA...

So, it is NVDA that needs to correct the problem...

Best regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 14:35 de 08/07/2019, Tyler Spivey escreveu:
I think you completely misunderstood the original email.
1. The synthesizer worked correctly in a previous version of NVDA.
2. Without any changes to the synthesizer, just NVDA code, it no
longer works correctly in the Python 3 snapshot version of NVDA.
From this info, there is clearly a regression in NVDA.

My guess is speech refactor. What we don't know is whether this is
triggering a synthesizer bug or an NVDA one.

On 7/8/2019 6:25 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi David and others,

Before it gets out of control, let me try to understand and clarify
both sides:

Regarding Eloquence: the best people to talk to (for now) is Code
Factory and Nuance staff, the folks behind the add-on and the company
who has ultimate authority, respectively. Suffice to say that the
add-on may have an initial difficulty with Python 3 version of NVDA
based on source code for the add-on in front of me.

Regarding legacy code and unsupported speech synthesizers: as much as
we wish to support legacy code as long as possible, there are times
when it must be dropped (we’ve experienced this feeling in 2017 when
we had a discussion about Windows XP support). One way to support
legacy code, or at least some of it is collaborating and modernizing
it, and I expect this will be done to the best of our abilities,
especially for speech synthesizers.

Regarding Python 3 discussion: there is another thread that talks
about Python 3 differences. As I clarified last week, folks are
welcome to test Python 3 snapshots privately and do something about
add-ons on their own; once Python 3 comes to NVDA alpha snapshots,
that is the day when we will start contacting authors of popular
add-ons for their stances on Python 3 transition (I myself will make
a statement or two (or three) about add-ons under my belt then).

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David Taylor via
Groups.Io
*Sent:* Monday, July 8, 2019 2:20 AM
*To:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5
Loquendo

Oh well, if you want to stick to your principles and kill NVDA for
most of us, don't say I didn't warn you. If you don't put users
first, especially power users, the kind you need to work on addons
and so on, NVDA will go back to where it was in 2010. I'm trying to
save it for so many people here!

On 08/07/2019 10:13, zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz wrote:

Sorry, but that what said Adriani is a reality.

Loquendo is closed source, thus it is not open source and it is
proprietary.

Best

Zvonimir

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David
Taylor via Groups.Io
*Sent:* Monday, July 8, 2019 10:18 AM
*To:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5
Loquendo

Look. NVDA is a free screen reader. The synth is the way it
interacts with us, and therefore the most important factor aside
from basic functionality. Devs need to remember that without
users,
the project fails. If the voices are ones that nobody can stand,
they will start to pay for Jaws again. At the end of the day,
while
we appreciate addons and all that NVDA has done, you must
remember,
users come before development. I really do not like this current
attitude one little bit. Again, I say, while some change is
inevitable, I am not dealing with headaches and the inability to
do
things efficiently any more just so that people can develop, end
of
story. I say once more, the day Eloquence without pauses dies,
efficient computing for the blind dies. Fortunately somebody off
list helped me get an Eloquence that will carry on working and
doesn't have the pauses, so I will be OK, but many will not.

Cheers

Dave

On 08/07/2019 02:55, Adriani Botez wrote:

hello,

I am afraid but we cannot take into account every
discontinued
thing. Technology moves on and there will always be things
which
will not be updated as fast as NVDA itself. If that synths
are
so important to the community, then let‘s find the source
code
and change it accordingly. If this is not possible, then we
will
have to leave it behind unfortunately. That‘s how technology
proggress simply works.

Best

Adriani

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 08.07.2019 um 00:12 schrieb zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz
<zvonimirek222@... <mailto:zvonimirek222@...>>:

Hi Joseph,

This thing cannot be solved by the synthesizer maker, as
the
synthesizer maker is merged with nuance, and due to this,
loquendo synths are discontinued forever, and the synths
are
no longer sold.

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
*Joseph Lee
*Sent:* Sunday, July 7, 2019 11:58 PM
*To:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and
sapi5 Loquendo

Hi,

I advise contacting the synthesizer maker because they
may
have more info as to how to troubleshoot this. I’ll
announce
a more general directive regarding this kind of thing
once
NVDA’s master branch uses Python 3.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
*Adriano Barbieri via Groups.Io
*Sent:* Sunday, July 7, 2019 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda-addons <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>>
*Subject:* [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and
sapi5
Loquendo

Hi to every one,

I point out that iin this branch the sapi5 of the
Loquendo
do not work properly, the progress bars percentage are
not
read, the file name in the directories is not vocalized
when
positioned above it, it does not spell and with nvda +
down
arrow reads only one line at a time.
The strange thing is that no error is generated, simply
the
ui.message () command in certain parts of the code is not
vocalized by the speech synthesis, for example when
reading
the "Details" in Weather_Plus.
I also tried adding wx.CallAfter () and wx.CallLater (),
but
it doesn't vocalize the string.
I tried them all, I hope this is a temporary problem
because
the Loquendo sapi5 is widely used here in Italy.
While with the same source code the speech synthesis
works
regularly with all previous versions of nvda, including
the
nvdapy37-20190228 version.

Thanks

Kind regards
Adriano




 

Joseph,

Such a summary might make Could you summarize the use that's occurring?it more likely that someone will look into it.

Met vriendelijke groet, kind regards,

Leonard de Ruijter
Babbage Accessibility Engineer
Telefoon: 0165-536156
Emailadres: @leonardder
Skype: leonardbabbage
Website: www.babbage.com
Youtube
Facebook

Bezoekadres:
Bergrand 222
4707 AT Roosendaal
KVK: 20065000

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:53 PM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: [nvda-devel] FW: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5 Loquendo

Hi,
Can we verify that speech refactor is to blame for the issues we're seeing here? Don't worry about Eloquence bit.
Cheers,
Jsoeph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 6:46 AM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5 Loquendo

Sorry, but if Loquendo is a SAPI5 synth, it do not have any proprietary driver, since it will use the SAPI5 driver, and this one is made by NVDA...

So, it is NVDA that needs to correct the problem...

Best regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 14:35 de 08/07/2019, Tyler Spivey escreveu:
I think you completely misunderstood the original email.
1. The synthesizer worked correctly in a previous version of NVDA.
2. Without any changes to the synthesizer, just NVDA code, it no
longer works correctly in the Python 3 snapshot version of NVDA.
From this info, there is clearly a regression in NVDA.

My guess is speech refactor. What we don't know is whether this is
triggering a synthesizer bug or an NVDA one.

On 7/8/2019 6:25 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi David and others,

Before it gets out of control, let me try to understand and clarify
both sides:

Regarding Eloquence: the best people to talk to (for now) is Code
Factory and Nuance staff, the folks behind the add-on and the company
who has ultimate authority, respectively. Suffice to say that the
add-on may have an initial difficulty with Python 3 version of NVDA
based on source code for the add-on in front of me.

Regarding legacy code and unsupported speech synthesizers: as much as
we wish to support legacy code as long as possible, there are times
when it must be dropped (we’ve experienced this feeling in 2017 when
we had a discussion about Windows XP support). One way to support
legacy code, or at least some of it is collaborating and modernizing
it, and I expect this will be done to the best of our abilities,
especially for speech synthesizers.

Regarding Python 3 discussion: there is another thread that talks
about Python 3 differences. As I clarified last week, folks are
welcome to test Python 3 snapshots privately and do something about
add-ons on their own; once Python 3 comes to NVDA alpha snapshots,
that is the day when we will start contacting authors of popular
add-ons for their stances on Python 3 transition (I myself will make
a statement or two (or three) about add-ons under my belt then).

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David Taylor via
Groups.Io
*Sent:* Monday, July 8, 2019 2:20 AM
*To:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5
Loquendo

Oh well, if you want to stick to your principles and kill NVDA for
most of us, don't say I didn't warn you. If you don't put users
first, especially power users, the kind you need to work on addons
and so on, NVDA will go back to where it was in 2010. I'm trying to
save it for so many people here!

On 08/07/2019 10:13, zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz wrote:

Sorry, but that what said Adriani is a reality.

Loquendo is closed source, thus it is not open source and it is
proprietary.

Best

Zvonimir

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David
Taylor via Groups.Io
*Sent:* Monday, July 8, 2019 10:18 AM
*To:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5
Loquendo

Look. NVDA is a free screen reader. The synth is the way it
interacts with us, and therefore the most important factor aside
from basic functionality. Devs need to remember that without
users,
the project fails. If the voices are ones that nobody can stand,
they will start to pay for Jaws again. At the end of the day,
while
we appreciate addons and all that NVDA has done, you must
remember,
users come before development. I really do not like this current
attitude one little bit. Again, I say, while some change is
inevitable, I am not dealing with headaches and the inability to
do
things efficiently any more just so that people can develop, end
of
story. I say once more, the day Eloquence without pauses dies,
efficient computing for the blind dies. Fortunately somebody off
list helped me get an Eloquence that will carry on working and
doesn't have the pauses, so I will be OK, but many will not.

Cheers

Dave

On 08/07/2019 02:55, Adriani Botez wrote:

hello,

I am afraid but we cannot take into account every
discontinued
thing. Technology moves on and there will always be things
which
will not be updated as fast as NVDA itself. If that synths
are
so important to the community, then let‘s find the source
code
and change it accordingly. If this is not possible, then we
will
have to leave it behind unfortunately. That‘s how technology
proggress simply works.

Best

Adriani

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 08.07.2019 um 00:12 schrieb zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz
<zvonimirek222@... <mailto:zvonimirek222@...>>:

Hi Joseph,

This thing cannot be solved by the synthesizer maker, as
the
synthesizer maker is merged with nuance, and due to this,
loquendo synths are discontinued forever, and the synths
are
no longer sold.

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
*Joseph Lee
*Sent:* Sunday, July 7, 2019 11:58 PM
*To:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and
sapi5 Loquendo

Hi,

I advise contacting the synthesizer maker because they
may
have more info as to how to troubleshoot this. I’ll
announce
a more general directive regarding this kind of thing
once
NVDA’s master branch uses Python 3.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
*Adriano Barbieri via Groups.Io
*Sent:* Sunday, July 7, 2019 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda-addons <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>>
*Subject:* [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and
sapi5
Loquendo

Hi to every one,

I point out that iin this branch the sapi5 of the
Loquendo
do not work properly, the progress bars percentage are
not
read, the file name in the directories is not vocalized
when
positioned above it, it does not spell and with nvda +
down
arrow reads only one line at a time.
The strange thing is that no error is generated, simply
the
ui.message () command in certain parts of the code is not
vocalized by the speech synthesis, for example when
reading
the "Details" in Weather_Plus.
I also tried adding wx.CallAfter () and wx.CallLater (),
but
it doesn't vocalize the string.
I tried them all, I hope this is a temporary problem
because
the Loquendo sapi5 is widely used here in Italy.
While with the same source code the speech synthesis
works
regularly with all previous versions of nvda, including
the
nvdapy37-20190228 version.

Thanks

Kind regards
Adriano




 

Hi,
Basically, Loquendo (now part of nuance Vocalizer Expressive) SAPI5 driver behaves oddly when trying to speak, according to the original poster (Adriano). I'll ask for a log.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Leonard de Ruijter
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 7:09 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] FW: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5 Loquendo

Joseph,

Such a summary might make Could you summarize the use that's occurring?it more likely that someone will look into it.

Met vriendelijke groet, kind regards,

Leonard de Ruijter
Babbage Accessibility Engineer
Telefoon: 0165-536156
Emailadres: @leonardder
Skype: leonardbabbage
Website: www.babbage.com
Youtube
Facebook

Bezoekadres:
Bergrand 222
4707 AT Roosendaal
KVK: 20065000

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:53 PM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: [nvda-devel] FW: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5 Loquendo

Hi,
Can we verify that speech refactor is to blame for the issues we're seeing here? Don't worry about Eloquence bit.
Cheers,
Jsoeph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 6:46 AM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5 Loquendo

Sorry, but if Loquendo is a SAPI5 synth, it do not have any proprietary driver, since it will use the SAPI5 driver, and this one is made by NVDA...

So, it is NVDA that needs to correct the problem...

Best regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 14:35 de 08/07/2019, Tyler Spivey escreveu:
I think you completely misunderstood the original email.
1. The synthesizer worked correctly in a previous version of NVDA.
2. Without any changes to the synthesizer, just NVDA code, it no
longer works correctly in the Python 3 snapshot version of NVDA.
From this info, there is clearly a regression in NVDA.

My guess is speech refactor. What we don't know is whether this is
triggering a synthesizer bug or an NVDA one.

On 7/8/2019 6:25 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi David and others,

Before it gets out of control, let me try to understand and clarify
both sides:

Regarding Eloquence: the best people to talk to (for now) is Code
Factory and Nuance staff, the folks behind the add-on and the company
who has ultimate authority, respectively. Suffice to say that the
add-on may have an initial difficulty with Python 3 version of NVDA
based on source code for the add-on in front of me.

Regarding legacy code and unsupported speech synthesizers: as much as
we wish to support legacy code as long as possible, there are times
when it must be dropped (we’ve experienced this feeling in 2017 when
we had a discussion about Windows XP support). One way to support
legacy code, or at least some of it is collaborating and modernizing
it, and I expect this will be done to the best of our abilities,
especially for speech synthesizers.

Regarding Python 3 discussion: there is another thread that talks
about Python 3 differences. As I clarified last week, folks are
welcome to test Python 3 snapshots privately and do something about
add-ons on their own; once Python 3 comes to NVDA alpha snapshots,
that is the day when we will start contacting authors of popular
add-ons for their stances on Python 3 transition (I myself will make
a statement or two (or three) about add-ons under my belt then).

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David Taylor via
Groups.Io
*Sent:* Monday, July 8, 2019 2:20 AM
*To:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5
Loquendo

Oh well, if you want to stick to your principles and kill NVDA for
most of us, don't say I didn't warn you. If you don't put users
first, especially power users, the kind you need to work on addons
and so on, NVDA will go back to where it was in 2010. I'm trying to
save it for so many people here!

On 08/07/2019 10:13, zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz wrote:

Sorry, but that what said Adriani is a reality.

Loquendo is closed source, thus it is not open source and it is
proprietary.

Best

Zvonimir

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David
Taylor via Groups.Io
*Sent:* Monday, July 8, 2019 10:18 AM
*To:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5
Loquendo

Look. NVDA is a free screen reader. The synth is the way it
interacts with us, and therefore the most important factor aside
from basic functionality. Devs need to remember that without
users,
the project fails. If the voices are ones that nobody can stand,
they will start to pay for Jaws again. At the end of the day,
while
we appreciate addons and all that NVDA has done, you must
remember,
users come before development. I really do not like this current
attitude one little bit. Again, I say, while some change is
inevitable, I am not dealing with headaches and the inability to
do
things efficiently any more just so that people can develop, end
of
story. I say once more, the day Eloquence without pauses dies,
efficient computing for the blind dies. Fortunately somebody off
list helped me get an Eloquence that will carry on working and
doesn't have the pauses, so I will be OK, but many will not.

Cheers

Dave

On 08/07/2019 02:55, Adriani Botez wrote:

hello,

I am afraid but we cannot take into account every
discontinued
thing. Technology moves on and there will always be things
which
will not be updated as fast as NVDA itself. If that synths
are
so important to the community, then let‘s find the source
code
and change it accordingly. If this is not possible, then we
will
have to leave it behind unfortunately. That‘s how technology
proggress simply works.

Best

Adriani

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 08.07.2019 um 00:12 schrieb zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz
<zvonimirek222@... <mailto:zvonimirek222@...>>:

Hi Joseph,

This thing cannot be solved by the synthesizer maker, as
the
synthesizer maker is merged with nuance, and due to this,
loquendo synths are discontinued forever, and the synths
are
no longer sold.

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
*Joseph Lee
*Sent:* Sunday, July 7, 2019 11:58 PM
*To:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and
sapi5 Loquendo

Hi,

I advise contacting the synthesizer maker because they
may
have more info as to how to troubleshoot this. I’ll
announce
a more general directive regarding this kind of thing
once
NVDA’s master branch uses Python 3.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
*Adriano Barbieri via Groups.Io
*Sent:* Sunday, July 7, 2019 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda-addons <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>>
*Subject:* [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and
sapi5
Loquendo

Hi to every one,

I point out that iin this branch the sapi5 of the
Loquendo
do not work properly, the progress bars percentage are
not
read, the file name in the directories is not vocalized
when
positioned above it, it does not spell and with nvda +
down
arrow reads only one line at a time.
The strange thing is that no error is generated, simply
the
ui.message () command in certain parts of the code is not
vocalized by the speech synthesis, for example when
reading
the "Details" in Weather_Plus.
I also tried adding wx.CallAfter () and wx.CallLater (),
but
it doesn't vocalize the string.
I tried them all, I hope this is a temporary problem
because
the Loquendo sapi5 is widely used here in Italy.
While with the same source code the speech synthesis
works
regularly with all previous versions of nvda, including
the
nvdapy37-20190228 version.

Thanks

Kind regards
Adriano




 

Hello,


Posting issues like these on mailing lists easily make them go out of view.

I'd advice either you or the original reporter to file a github issue that contains steps to reproduce, possibly with a link to a demo version of the synth.


Regards,

Leonard

Op 8-7-2019 om 16:11 schreef Joseph Lee:

Hi,
Basically, Loquendo (now part of nuance Vocalizer Expressive) SAPI5 driver behaves oddly when trying to speak, according to the original poster (Adriano). I'll ask for a log.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Leonard de Ruijter
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 7:09 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] FW: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5 Loquendo

Joseph,

 Such a summary might make Could you summarize the use that's occurring?it more likely that someone will look into it.

Met vriendelijke groet, kind regards,

Leonard de Ruijter
Babbage Accessibility Engineer
Telefoon: 0165-536156
Emailadres: leonard@...
Skype: leonardbabbage
Website: www.babbage.com
Youtube
Facebook

Bezoekadres:
Bergrand 222
4707 AT Roosendaal
KVK: 20065000

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 3:53 PM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: [nvda-devel] FW: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5 Loquendo

Hi,
Can we verify that speech refactor is to blame for the issues we're seeing here? Don't worry about Eloquence bit.
Cheers,
Jsoeph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 6:46 AM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5 Loquendo

Sorry, but if Loquendo is a SAPI5 synth, it do not have any proprietary driver, since it will use the SAPI5 driver, and this one is made by NVDA...

So, it is NVDA that needs to correct the problem...

Best regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 14:35 de 08/07/2019, Tyler Spivey escreveu:
I think you completely misunderstood the original email.
1. The synthesizer worked correctly in a previous version of NVDA.
2. Without any changes to the synthesizer, just NVDA code, it no 
longer works correctly in the Python 3 snapshot version of NVDA.
 From this info, there is clearly a regression in NVDA.

My guess is speech refactor. What we don't know is whether this is 
triggering a synthesizer bug or an NVDA one.

On 7/8/2019 6:25 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi David and others,

Before it gets out of control, let me try to understand and clarify 
both sides:

Regarding Eloquence: the best people to talk to (for now) is Code 
Factory and Nuance staff, the folks behind the add-on and the company 
who has ultimate authority, respectively. Suffice to say that the 
add-on may have an initial difficulty with Python 3 version of NVDA 
based on source code for the add-on in front of me.

Regarding legacy code and unsupported speech synthesizers: as much as 
we wish to support legacy code as long as possible, there are times 
when it must be dropped (we’ve experienced this feeling in 2017 when 
we had a discussion about Windows XP support). One way to support 
legacy code, or at least some of it is collaborating and modernizing 
it, and I expect this will be done to the best of our abilities, 
especially for speech synthesizers.

Regarding Python 3 discussion: there is another thread that talks 
about Python 3 differences. As I clarified last week, folks are 
welcome to test Python 3 snapshots privately and do something about 
add-ons on their own; once Python 3 comes to NVDA alpha snapshots, 
that is the day when we will start contacting authors of popular 
add-ons for their stances on Python 3 transition (I myself will make 
a statement or two (or three) about add-ons under my belt then).

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David Taylor via 
Groups.Io
*Sent:* Monday, July 8, 2019 2:20 AM
*To:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5 
Loquendo

Oh well, if you want to stick to your principles and kill NVDA for 
most of us, don't say I didn't warn you. If you don't put users 
first, especially power users, the kind you need to work on addons 
and so on, NVDA will go back to where it was in 2010. I'm trying to 
save it for so many people here!

On 08/07/2019 10:13, zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz wrote:

    Sorry, but that what said Adriani is a reality.

    Loquendo is closed source, thus it is not open source and it is
    proprietary.

    Best

    Zvonimir

    *From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
    <mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
    <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
    <mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David
    Taylor via Groups.Io
    *Sent:* Monday, July 8, 2019 10:18 AM
    *To:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
    <mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
    *Subject:* Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and sapi5 
Loquendo

    Look. NVDA is a free screen reader. The synth is the way it
    interacts with us, and therefore the most important factor aside
    from basic functionality. Devs need to remember that without 
users,
    the project fails. If the voices are ones that nobody can stand,
    they will start to pay for Jaws again. At the end of the day, 
while
    we appreciate addons and all that NVDA has done, you must 
remember,
    users come before development.  I really do not like this current
    attitude one little bit. Again, I say, while some change is
    inevitable, I am not dealing with headaches and the inability to 
do
    things efficiently any more just so that people can develop, end 
of
    story. I say once more, the day Eloquence without pauses dies,
    efficient  computing for the blind dies. Fortunately somebody off
    list helped me get an Eloquence that will carry on working and
    doesn't have the pauses, so I will be OK, but many will not.

    Cheers

    Dave

    On 08/07/2019 02:55, Adriani Botez wrote:

        hello,

        I am afraid but we cannot take into account every 
discontinued
        thing. Technology moves on and there will always be things 
which
        will not be updated as fast as NVDA itself. If that synths 
are
        so important to the community, then let‘s find the source 
code
        and change it accordingly. If this is not possible, then we 
will
        have to leave it behind unfortunately. That‘s how technology
        proggress simply works.

        Best

        Adriani

        Von meinem iPhone gesendet


        Am 08.07.2019 um 00:12 schrieb zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz
        <zvonimirek222@... <mailto:zvonimirek222@...>>:

            Hi Joseph,

            This thing cannot be solved by the synthesizer maker, as 
the
            synthesizer maker is merged with nuance, and due to this,
            loquendo synths are discontinued forever, and the synths 
are
            no longer sold.

            *From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
            <mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
            <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
            <mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
            *Joseph Lee
            *Sent:* Sunday, July 7, 2019 11:58 PM
            *To:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
            <mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
            *Subject:* Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and
            sapi5 Loquendo

            Hi,

            I advise contacting the synthesizer maker because they 
may
            have more info as to how to troubleshoot this. I’ll 
announce
            a more general directive regarding this kind of thing 
once
            NVDA’s master branch uses Python 3.

            Cheers,

            Joseph

            *From:*nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
            <mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
            <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
            <mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
            *Adriano Barbieri via Groups.Io
            *Sent:* Sunday, July 7, 2019 2:56 PM
            *To:* nvda-addons <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
            <mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>>
            *Subject:* [nvda-addons] NVDA threshold branches and
sapi5
            Loquendo

            Hi to every one,

            I point out that iin this branch the sapi5 of the 
Loquendo
            do not work properly, the progress bars percentage are 
not
            read, the file name in the directories is not vocalized 
when
            positioned above it, it does not spell and with nvda + 
down
            arrow reads only one line at a time.
            The strange thing is that no error is generated, simply 
the
            ui.message () command in certain parts of the code is not
            vocalized by the speech synthesis, for example when 
reading
            the "Details" in Weather_Plus.
            I also tried adding wx.CallAfter () and wx.CallLater (), 
but
            it doesn't vocalize the string.
            I tried them all, I hope this is a temporary problem 
because
            the Loquendo sapi5 is widely used here in Italy.
            While with the same source code the speech synthesis 
works
            regularly with all previous versions of nvda, including 
the
            nvdapy37-20190228 version.

            Thanks

            Kind regards
            Adriano