Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of NV
Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project Threshold
to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA 2019.3 in early 2020.
Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort to port
NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in hopes of
showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA fork may have
noticed a branch called "walrus", and that's what that branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from "walrus" operator (:=), used to denote assignment
expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment expression, you can do
something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

.



As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

.



Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released - as
soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were released.
Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I decided to
wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control label issues. Along
the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8, but
also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In fact, with
tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under Python 3.9.



The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under Python
3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks to Project
Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1) include:

* Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
* Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable
strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA releases.
* Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL's from known locations
(the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users must
install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most installations should
have this installed).
* Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many
things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
* Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.



Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can't install
Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support for Windows 7
in January 2020. Although paid support is available for enterprises until
early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows official support timeline
from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9 (October 2020) does not support Windows
7. Another reason is user base - according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA
installations checking for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides,
Python 3.8 will receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time
before moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.



To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released in a
few hours (hosted on my personal website):

* A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
* Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will be
detailed once released.



Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of NV Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project Threshold to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA 2019.3 in early 2020. Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort to port NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in hopes of showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA fork may have noticed a branch called “walrus”, and that’s what that branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from “walrus” operator (:=), used to denote assignment expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment expression, you can do something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

    …

As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

    …

Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released – as soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were released. Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I decided to wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control label issues. Along the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8, but also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In fact, with tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under Python 3.9.

The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under Python 3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks to Project Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1) include:

• Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
• Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA releases.
• Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL’s from known locations (the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users must install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most installations should have this installed).
• Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
• Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.

Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can’t install Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support for Windows 7 in January 2020. Although paid support is available for enterprises until early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows official support timeline from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9 (October 2020) does not support Windows 7. Another reason is user base – according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA installations checking for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides, Python 3.8 will receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time before moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.

To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released in a few hours (hosted on my personal website):

• A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
• Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will be detailed once released.

Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

Personally, I’d like to see us move to 3.9 (dependency compatibility not withstanding) as soon as possible.

Windows 7 is end of life, and the performance improvements and new language features in 3.9 shouldn’t hold back users of current software. As 2021.1 will be an API-breaking release, deprecating very old operating system versions seems in line with removing old app modules and making API-incompatible changes.

Similar to XP users, Windows 7 users could run 2020.4 indefinitely. Users on an unsupported OS don’t tend to be that interested in the latest and greatest.

Thanks,

Bill

Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of NV Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project Threshold to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA 2019.3 in early 2020. Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort to port NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in hopes of showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA fork may have noticed a branch called “walrus”, and that’s what that branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from “walrus” operator (:=), used to denote assignment expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment expression, you can do something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

    …

As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

    …

Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released – as soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were released. Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I decided to wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control label issues. Along the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8, but also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In fact, with tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under Python 3.9.

The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under Python 3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks to Project Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1) include:

• Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
• Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA releases.
• Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL’s from known locations (the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users must install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most installations should have this installed).
• Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
• Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.

Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can’t install Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support for Windows 7 in January 2020. Although paid support is available for enterprises until early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows official support timeline from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9 (October 2020) does not support Windows 7. Another reason is user base – according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA installations checking for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides, Python 3.8 will receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time before moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.

To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released in a few hours (hosted on my personal website):

• A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
• Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will be detailed once released.

Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

Funny that, the notation seems almost to be making it like a lot of the old basic languages from my youth.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
Newsgroup monitored: alt.comp.blind-users
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda-devel@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 5:11 AM
Subject: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1

Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of NV
Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project Threshold
to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA 2019.3 in early 2020.
Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort to port
NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in hopes of
showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA fork may have
noticed a branch called "walrus", and that's what that branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from "walrus" operator (:=), used to denote assignment
expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment expression, you can do
something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

   .



As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

   .



Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released - as
soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were released.
Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I decided to
wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control label issues. Along
the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8, but
also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In fact, with
tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under Python 3.9.



The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under Python
3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks to Project
Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1) include:

* Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
* Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable
strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA releases.
* Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL's from known locations
(the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users must
install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most installations should
have this installed).
* Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many
things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
* Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.



Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can't install
Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support for Windows 7
in January 2020. Although paid support is available for enterprises until
early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows official support timeline
from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9 (October 2020) does not support Windows
7. Another reason is user base - according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA
installations checking for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides,
Python 3.8 will receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time
before moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.



To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released in a
few hours (hosted on my personal website):

* A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
* Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will be
detailed once released.



Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

I would like to see NVDA keep up with the current releases of Python and WX. As Bill said, users on older operating systems don’t usually care about the newest of things. On the other hand, those who care about the newest of things might want to use newer language features in 3.9. The Linux world has been on Python 3.9 for a while now. Linux isn’t better than Windows, and I am not here to start a war. However, what does it say about NVDA when Orca is already able to make use of Python 3.9. In fact, Orca screen reader gives it’s users a choice on what Python version we want to use. The only thing the documentation states is that we have to use at least Python 3.75, and no later than 3.9. If NVDA could give us that choice, things might have a better outcome than always lagging behind a version of dependencies.

 

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Dengler
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 4:44 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1

 

Personally, I’d like to see us move to 3.9 (dependency compatibility not withstanding) as soon as possible.

Windows 7 is end of life, and the performance improvements and new language features in 3.9 shouldn’t hold back users of current software. As 2021.1 will be an API-breaking release, deprecating very old operating system versions seems in line with removing old app modules and making API-incompatible changes.

Similar to XP users, Windows 7 users could run 2020.4 indefinitely. Users on an unsupported OS don’t tend to be that interested in the latest and greatest.

Thanks,

Bill

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, 27 December 2020 00:11
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1

 

Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of NV Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project Threshold to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA 2019.3 in early 2020. Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort to port NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in hopes of showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA fork may have noticed a branch called “walrus”, and that’s what that branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from “walrus” operator (:=), used to denote assignment expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment expression, you can do something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

    …

 

As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

    …

 

Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released – as soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were released. Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I decided to wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control label issues. Along the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8, but also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In fact, with tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under Python 3.9.

 

The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under Python 3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks to Project Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1) include:

• Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
• Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA releases.
• Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL’s from known locations (the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users must install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most installations should have this installed).
• Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
• Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.

 

Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can’t install Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support for Windows 7 in January 2020. Although paid support is available for enterprises until early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows official support timeline from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9 (October 2020) does not support Windows 7. Another reason is user base – according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA installations checking for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides, Python 3.8 will receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time before moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.

 

To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released in a few hours (hosted on my personal website):

• A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
• Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will be detailed once released.

 

Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

Regarding dependencies, it's always a crapshoot as to whether the latest versions of any given library will be available on a newer release of python.  Often times, they do get updated, and all is well, but sometimes, there's a delay in implementation, and if it's a critical part of NVDA, this prevents immediate adoption of the new versions, (as evidenced by the bit about wxpython in the original email), so insisting on the latest and greatest despite user preference isn't always the best option.

I'm sure plans are in the works to update to new versions of python, as soon as is technically feasible, but in the meantime, personally, I say as long as it works, the version it uses is immaterial.

I would like to see NVDA keep up with the current releases of Python and WX. As Bill said, users on older operating systems don’t usually care about the newest of things. On the other hand, those who care about the newest of things might want to use newer language features in 3.9. The Linux world has been on Python 3.9 for a while now. Linux isn’t better than Windows, and I am not here to start a war. However, what does it say about NVDA when Orca is already able to make use of Python 3.9. In fact, Orca screen reader gives it’s users a choice on what Python version we want to use. The only thing the documentation states is that we have to use at least Python 3.75, and no later than 3.9. If NVDA could give us that choice, things might have a better outcome than always lagging behind a version of dependencies.

 

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Dengler
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 4:44 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1

 

Personally, I’d like to see us move to 3.9 (dependency compatibility not withstanding) as soon as possible.

Windows 7 is end of life, and the performance improvements and new language features in 3.9 shouldn’t hold back users of current software. As 2021.1 will be an API-breaking release, deprecating very old operating system versions seems in line with removing old app modules and making API-incompatible changes.

Similar to XP users, Windows 7 users could run 2020.4 indefinitely. Users on an unsupported OS don’t tend to be that interested in the latest and greatest.

Thanks,

Bill

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, 27 December 2020 00:11
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1

 

Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of NV Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project Threshold to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA 2019.3 in early 2020. Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort to port NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in hopes of showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA fork may have noticed a branch called “walrus”, and that’s what that branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from “walrus” operator (:=), used to denote assignment expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment expression, you can do something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

    …

 

As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

    …

 

Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released – as soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were released. Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I decided to wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control label issues. Along the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8, but also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In fact, with tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under Python 3.9.

 

The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under Python 3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks to Project Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1) include:

• Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
• Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA releases.
• Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL’s from known locations (the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users must install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most installations should have this installed).
• Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
• Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.

 

Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can’t install Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support for Windows 7 in January 2020. Although paid support is available for enterprises until early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows official support timeline from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9 (October 2020) does not support Windows 7. Another reason is user base – according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA installations checking for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides, Python 3.8 will receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time before moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.

 

To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released in a few hours (hosted on my personal website):

• A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
• Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will be detailed once released.

 

Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

Hi,

As of now, wxPython 4.1.1 does have a Python 3.9 wheel, so that dependency is satisfied. There are other important dependencies that must be met, BRLTTY Python bindings being a notable one (currently Python 3.7 binding exists but not for newer Python releases).

In theory Python 3.9 version of NVDA could run on Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2, but can’t guarantee that bug fixes (unless bugs in the scale of WannaCry is found) for Windows 7 will make it to consumers and small businesses. There are also features in newer dependencies that will help improve user experience, some of which cannot be implemented consistently because Windows 7 does not support certain things – for example, toast notifications will improve NVDA’s update check and notification experience but only on Windows 8.x and 10; certain Windows API and features, including touch support and audio ducking, will not work on Windows 7.

I will investigate creating a Python 3.9 based Project Walrus prototype if there is demand for it (based on past responses, it appears there is). For now, Python 3.7 and 3.8 will get priority in Walrus. Ultimately, it is really up to NV Access folks to decide which python version to target, and if 3.9 is chosen, I hope a message will be sent to Windows 7 that will assure users that NVDA 2020.4 will still work on Windows 7 (my add-ons will continue to support Windows 7 unless Python 3.9 is chosen; still, I might require users to use Windows 8.1 or 10 when using my add-ons earlier, perhaps by next summer).

Cheers,

Joseph

Regarding dependencies, it's always a crapshoot as to whether the latest versions of any given library will be available on a newer release of python.  Often times, they do get updated, and all is well, but sometimes, there's a delay in implementation, and if it's a critical part of NVDA, this prevents immediate adoption of the new versions, (as evidenced by the bit about wxpython in the original email), so insisting on the latest and greatest despite user preference isn't always the best option.

I'm sure plans are in the works to update to new versions of python, as soon as is technically feasible, but in the meantime, personally, I say as long as it works, the version it uses is immaterial.

I would like to see NVDA keep up with the current releases of Python and WX. As Bill said, users on older operating systems don’t usually care about the newest of things. On the other hand, those who care about the newest of things might want to use newer language features in 3.9. The Linux world has been on Python 3.9 for a while now. Linux isn’t better than Windows, and I am not here to start a war. However, what does it say about NVDA when Orca is already able to make use of Python 3.9. In fact, Orca screen reader gives it’s users a choice on what Python version we want to use. The only thing the documentation states is that we have to use at least Python 3.75, and no later than 3.9. If NVDA could give us that choice, things might have a better outcome than always lagging behind a version of dependencies.

 

 

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Dengler
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 4:44 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1

 

Personally, I’d like to see us move to 3.9 (dependency compatibility not withstanding) as soon as possible.

Windows 7 is end of life, and the performance improvements and new language features in 3.9 shouldn’t hold back users of current software. As 2021.1 will be an API-breaking release, deprecating very old operating system versions seems in line with removing old app modules and making API-incompatible changes.

Similar to XP users, Windows 7 users could run 2020.4 indefinitely. Users on an unsupported OS don’t tend to be that interested in the latest and greatest.

Thanks,

Bill

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, 27 December 2020 00:11
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1

 

Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of NV Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project Threshold to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA 2019.3 in early 2020. Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort to port NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in hopes of showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA fork may have noticed a branch called “walrus”, and that’s what that branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from “walrus” operator (:=), used to denote assignment expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment expression, you can do something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

    …

 

As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

    …

 

Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released – as soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were released. Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I decided to wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control label issues. Along the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8, but also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In fact, with tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under Python 3.9.

 

The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under Python 3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks to Project Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1) include:

• Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
• Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA releases.
• Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL’s from known locations (the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users must install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most installations should have this installed).
• Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
• Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.

 

Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can’t install Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support for Windows 7 in January 2020. Although paid support is available for enterprises until early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows official support timeline from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9 (October 2020) does not support Windows 7. Another reason is user base – according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA installations checking for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides, Python 3.8 will receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time before moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.

 

To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released in a few hours (hosted on my personal website):

• A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
• Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will be detailed once released.

 

Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

Funny that, the notation seems almost to be making it like a lot of the old basic languages from my youth.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
Newsgroup monitored: alt.comp.blind-users
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda-devel@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 5:11 AM
Subject: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1

Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of NV
Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project Threshold
to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA 2019.3 in early 2020.
Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort to port
NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in hopes of
showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA fork may have
noticed a branch called "walrus", and that's what that branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from "walrus" operator (:=), used to denote assignment
expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment expression, you can do
something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

.



As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

.



Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released - as
soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were released.
Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I decided to
wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control label issues. Along
the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8, but
also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In fact, with
tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under Python 3.9.



The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under Python
3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks to Project
Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1) include:

* Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
* Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable
strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA releases.
* Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL's from known locations
(the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users must
install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most installations should
have this installed).
* Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many
things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
* Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.



Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can't install
Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support for Windows 7
in January 2020. Although paid support is available for enterprises until
early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows official support timeline
from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9 (October 2020) does not support Windows
7. Another reason is user base - according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA
installations checking for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides,
Python 3.8 will receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time
before moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.



To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released in a
few hours (hosted on my personal website):

* A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
* Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will be
detailed once released.



Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

I would like to see NVDA keep up with the current releases of Python and WX.
As Bill said, users on older operating systems don't usually care about the
newest of things. On the other hand, those who care about the newest of
things might want to use newer language features in 3.9. The Linux world has
been on Python 3.9 for a while now. Linux isn't better than Windows, and I
am not here to start a war. However, what does it say about NVDA when Orca
is already able to make use of Python 3.9. In fact, Orca screen reader gives
it's users a choice on what Python version we want to use. The only thing
the documentation states is that we have to use at least Python 3.75, and no
later than 3.9. If NVDA could give us that choice, things might have a
better outcome than always lagging behind a version of dependencies.





From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Dengler
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 4:44 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to Python
3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1



Personally, I'd like to see us move to 3.9 (dependency compatibility not
withstanding) as soon as possible.

Windows 7 is end of life
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-support-ended-on-janu
ary-14-2020-b75d4580-2cc7-895a-2c9c-1466d9a53962#:~:text=The%20specific%20en
d%20of%20support,longer%20available%20for%20the%20product.> , and the
performance improvements and new language features in 3.9 shouldn't hold
back users of current software. As 2021.1 will be an API-breaking release,
deprecating very old operating system versions seems in line with removing
old app modules and making API-incompatible changes.

Similar to XP users, Windows 7 users could run 2020.4 indefinitely. Users on
an unsupported OS don't tend to be that interested in the latest and
greatest.

Thanks,

Bill

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
<nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io> > On Behalf Of Joseph
Lee
Sent: Sunday, 27 December 2020 00:11
To: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
Subject: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to Python 3.8
and wxPython 4.1.1



Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of NV
Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project Threshold
to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA 2019.3 in early 2020.
Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort to port
NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in hopes of
showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA fork may have
noticed a branch called "walrus", and that's what that branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from "walrus" operator (:=), used to denote assignment
expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment expression, you can do
something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

.



As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

.



Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released - as
soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were released.
Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I decided to
wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control label issues. Along
the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8, but
also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In fact, with
tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under Python 3.9.



The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under Python
3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks to Project
Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1) include:

* Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
* Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable
strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA releases.
* Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL's from known locations
(the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users must
install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most installations should
have this installed).
* Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many
things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
* Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.



Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can't install
Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support for Windows 7
in January 2020. Although paid support is available for enterprises until
early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows official support timeline
from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9 (October 2020) does not support Windows
7. Another reason is user base - according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA
installations checking for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides,
Python 3.8 will receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time
before moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.



To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released in a
few hours (hosted on my personal website):

* A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
* Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will be
detailed once released.



Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

I would like to see NVDA keep up with the current releases of Python
and WX.
As Bill said, users on older operating systems don't usually care
about the newest of things. On the other hand, those who care about
the newest of things might want to use newer language features in 3.9.
The Linux world has been on Python 3.9 for a while now. Linux isn't
better than Windows, and I am not here to start a war. However, what
does it say about NVDA when Orca is already able to make use of Python
3.9. In fact, Orca screen reader gives it's users a choice on what
Python version we want to use. The only thing the documentation states
is that we have to use at least Python 3.75, and no later than 3.9.
If NVDA could give us that choice, things might have a better outcome
than always lagging behind a version of dependencies.





From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill
Dengler
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 4:44 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to
Python
3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1



Personally, I'd like to see us move to 3.9 (dependency compatibility
not
withstanding) as soon as possible.

Windows 7 is end of life
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-support-ended-o
n-janu
ary-14-2020-b75d4580-2cc7-895a-2c9c-1466d9a53962#:~:text=The%20specifi
c%20en d%20of%20support,longer%20available%20for%20the%20product.> ,
and the performance improvements and new language features in 3.9
shouldn't hold back users of current software. As 2021.1 will be an
API-breaking release, deprecating very old operating system versions
seems in line with removing old app modules and making
API-incompatible changes.

Similar to XP users, Windows 7 users could run 2020.4 indefinitely.
Users on an unsupported OS don't tend to be that interested in the
latest and greatest.

Thanks,

Bill

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
<nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io> > On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, 27 December 2020 00:11
To: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
Subject: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to
Python
3.8
and wxPython 4.1.1



Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of
NV Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project
Threshold to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA
2019.3 in early 2020.
Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort
to port NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in
hopes of showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA
fork may have noticed a branch called "walrus", and that's what that
branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from "walrus" operator (:=), used to denote
assignment expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment
expression, you can do something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

.



As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

.



Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released -
as soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were
released.
Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I
decided to wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control label

Along
the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8,
but also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In
fact, with tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under Python

The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under
Python 3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks
to Project Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1)
include:

* Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
* Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable
strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA
releases.
* Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL's from known locations
(the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users
must install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most
installations should have this installed).
* Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many
things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
* Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.



Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can't
install Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support
for Windows 7 in January 2020. Although paid support is available for
enterprises until early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows
official support timeline from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9
(October 2020) does not support Windows 7. Another reason is user base
- according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA installations checking
for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides, Python 3.8 will
receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time before
moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.



To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released
in a few hours (hosted on my personal website):

* A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
* Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will
be detailed once released.



Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

I would like to see NVDA keep up with the current releases of Python
and WX.
As Bill said, users on older operating systems don't usually care
about the newest of things. On the other hand, those who care about
the newest of things might want to use newer language features in 3.9.
The Linux world has been on Python 3.9 for a while now. Linux isn't
better than Windows, and I am not here to start a war. However, what
does it say about NVDA when Orca is already able to make use of Python
3.9. In fact, Orca screen reader gives it's users a choice on what
Python version we want to use. The only thing the documentation states
is that we have to use at least Python 3.75, and no later than 3.9.
If NVDA could give us that choice, things might have a better outcome
than always lagging behind a version of dependencies.





From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill
Dengler
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 4:44 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to
Python
3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1



Personally, I'd like to see us move to 3.9 (dependency compatibility
not
withstanding) as soon as possible.

Windows 7 is end of life
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-support-ended-o
n-janu
ary-14-2020-b75d4580-2cc7-895a-2c9c-1466d9a53962#:~:text=The%20specifi
c%20en d%20of%20support,longer%20available%20for%20the%20product.> ,
and the performance improvements and new language features in 3.9
shouldn't hold back users of current software. As 2021.1 will be an
API-breaking release, deprecating very old operating system versions
seems in line with removing old app modules and making
API-incompatible changes.

Similar to XP users, Windows 7 users could run 2020.4 indefinitely.
Users on an unsupported OS don't tend to be that interested in the
latest and greatest.

Thanks,

Bill

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
<nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io> > On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, 27 December 2020 00:11
To: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
Subject: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to
Python
3.8
and wxPython 4.1.1



Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of
NV Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project
Threshold to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA
2019.3 in early 2020.
Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort
to port NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in
hopes of showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA
fork may have noticed a branch called "walrus", and that's what that
branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from "walrus" operator (:=), used to denote
assignment expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment
expression, you can do something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

.



As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

.



Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released -
as soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were
released.
Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I
decided to wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control label

Along
the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8,
but also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In
fact, with tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under Python

The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under
Python 3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks
to Project Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1)
include:

* Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
* Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable
strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA
releases.
* Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL's from known locations
(the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users
must install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most
installations should have this installed).
* Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many
things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
* Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.



Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can't
install Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support
for Windows 7 in January 2020. Although paid support is available for
enterprises until early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows
official support timeline from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9
(October 2020) does not support Windows 7. Another reason is user base
- according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA installations checking
for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides, Python 3.8 will
receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time before
moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.



To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released
in a few hours (hosted on my personal website):

* A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
* Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will
be detailed once released.



Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

I would like to see NVDA keep up with the current releases of Python
and WX.
As Bill said, users on older operating systems don't usually care
about the newest of things. On the other hand, those who care about
the newest of things might want to use newer language features in 3.9.
The Linux world has been on Python 3.9 for a while now. Linux isn't
better than Windows, and I am not here to start a war. However, what
does it say about NVDA when Orca is already able to make use of Python
3.9. In fact, Orca screen reader gives it's users a choice on what
Python version we want to use. The only thing the documentation states
is that we have to use at least Python 3.75, and no later than 3.9.
If NVDA could give us that choice, things might have a better outcome
than always lagging behind a version of dependencies.





From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill
Dengler
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 4:44 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to
Python
3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1



Personally, I'd like to see us move to 3.9 (dependency compatibility
not
withstanding) as soon as possible.

Windows 7 is end of life
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-support-ended-o
n-janu
ary-14-2020-b75d4580-2cc7-895a-2c9c-1466d9a53962#:~:text=The%20specifi
c%20en d%20of%20support,longer%20available%20for%20the%20product.> ,
and the performance improvements and new language features in 3.9
shouldn't hold back users of current software. As 2021.1 will be an
API-breaking release, deprecating very old operating system versions
seems in line with removing old app modules and making
API-incompatible changes.

Similar to XP users, Windows 7 users could run 2020.4 indefinitely.
Users on an unsupported OS don't tend to be that interested in the
latest and greatest.

Thanks,

Bill

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
<nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io> > On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, 27 December 2020 00:11
To: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
Subject: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to
Python
3.8
and wxPython 4.1.1



Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of
NV Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project
Threshold to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA
2019.3 in early 2020.
Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort
to port NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in
hopes of showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA
fork may have noticed a branch called "walrus", and that's what that
branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from "walrus" operator (:=), used to denote
assignment expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment
expression, you can do something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

.



As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

.



Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released -
as soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were
released.
Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I
decided to wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control
label

Along
the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8,
but also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In
fact, with tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under
Python

The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under
Python 3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks
to Project Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1)
include:

* Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
* Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable
strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA
releases.
* Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL's from known locations
(the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users
must install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most
installations should have this installed).
* Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many
things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
* Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.



Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can't
install Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support
for Windows 7 in January 2020. Although paid support is available for
enterprises until early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows
official support timeline from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9
(October 2020) does not support Windows 7. Another reason is user base
- according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA installations checking
for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides, Python 3.8 will
receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time before
moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.



To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released
in a few hours (hosted on my personal website):

* A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
* Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will
be detailed once released.



Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

I would like to see NVDA keep up with the current releases of Python
and WX.
As Bill said, users on older operating systems don't usually care
about the newest of things. On the other hand, those who care about
the newest of things might want to use newer language features in 3.9.
The Linux world has been on Python 3.9 for a while now. Linux isn't
better than Windows, and I am not here to start a war. However, what
does it say about NVDA when Orca is already able to make use of Python
3.9. In fact, Orca screen reader gives it's users a choice on what
Python version we want to use. The only thing the documentation states
is that we have to use at least Python 3.75, and no later than 3.9.
If NVDA could give us that choice, things might have a better outcome
than always lagging behind a version of dependencies.





From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill
Dengler
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 4:44 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to
Python
3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1



Personally, I'd like to see us move to 3.9 (dependency compatibility
not
withstanding) as soon as possible.

Windows 7 is end of life
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-support-ended-o
n-janu
ary-14-2020-b75d4580-2cc7-895a-2c9c-1466d9a53962#:~:text=The%20specifi
c%20en d%20of%20support,longer%20available%20for%20the%20product.> ,
and the performance improvements and new language features in 3.9
shouldn't hold back users of current software. As 2021.1 will be an
API-breaking release, deprecating very old operating system versions
seems in line with removing old app modules and making
API-incompatible changes.

Similar to XP users, Windows 7 users could run 2020.4 indefinitely.
Users on an unsupported OS don't tend to be that interested in the
latest and greatest.

Thanks,

Bill

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
<nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io> > On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, 27 December 2020 00:11
To: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
Subject: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to
Python
3.8
and wxPython 4.1.1



Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of
NV Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project
Threshold to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA
2019.3 in early 2020.
Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort
to port NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in
hopes of showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA
fork may have noticed a branch called "walrus", and that's what that
branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from "walrus" operator (:=), used to denote
assignment expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment
expression, you can do something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

.



As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

.



Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released -
as soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were
released.
Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I
decided to wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control
label

Along
the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8,
but also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In
fact, with tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under
Python

The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under
Python 3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks
to Project Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1)
include:

* Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
* Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable
strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA
releases.
* Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL's from known locations
(the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users
must install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most
installations should have this installed).
* Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many
things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
* Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.



Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can't
install Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support
for Windows 7 in January 2020. Although paid support is available for
enterprises until early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows
official support timeline from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9
(October 2020) does not support Windows 7. Another reason is user base
- according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA installations checking
for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides, Python 3.8 will
receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time before
moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.



To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released
in a few hours (hosted on my personal website):

* A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
* Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will
be detailed once released.



Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

I would like to see NVDA keep up with the current releases of Python
and WX.
As Bill said, users on older operating systems don't usually care
about the newest of things. On the other hand, those who care about
the newest of things might want to use newer language features in 3.9.
The Linux world has been on Python 3.9 for a while now. Linux isn't
better than Windows, and I am not here to start a war. However, what
does it say about NVDA when Orca is already able to make use of Python
3.9. In fact, Orca screen reader gives it's users a choice on what
Python version we want to use. The only thing the documentation states
is that we have to use at least Python 3.75, and no later than 3.9.
If NVDA could give us that choice, things might have a better outcome
than always lagging behind a version of dependencies.





From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill
Dengler
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 4:44 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to
Python
3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1



Personally, I'd like to see us move to 3.9 (dependency compatibility
not
withstanding) as soon as possible.

Windows 7 is end of life
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-support-ended-o
n-janu
ary-14-2020-b75d4580-2cc7-895a-2c9c-1466d9a53962#:~:text=The%20specifi
c%20en d%20of%20support,longer%20available%20for%20the%20product.> ,
and the performance improvements and new language features in 3.9
shouldn't hold back users of current software. As 2021.1 will be an
API-breaking release, deprecating very old operating system versions
seems in line with removing old app modules and making
API-incompatible changes.

Similar to XP users, Windows 7 users could run 2020.4 indefinitely.
Users on an unsupported OS don't tend to be that interested in the
latest and greatest.

Thanks,

Bill

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
<nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io> > On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, 27 December 2020 00:11
To: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
Subject: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to
Python
3.8
and wxPython 4.1.1



Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of
NV Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project
Threshold to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA
2019.3 in early 2020.
Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort
to port NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in
hopes of showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA
fork may have noticed a branch called "walrus", and that's what that
branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from "walrus" operator (:=), used to denote
assignment expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment
expression, you can do something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

.



As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

.



Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released -
as soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were
released.
Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I
decided to wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control
label

Along
the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8,
but also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In
fact, with tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under
Python

The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under
Python 3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks
to Project Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1)
include:

* Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
* Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable
strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA
releases.
* Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL's from known locations
(the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users
must install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most
installations should have this installed).
* Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many
things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
* Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.



Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can't
install Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support
for Windows 7 in January 2020. Although paid support is available for
enterprises until early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows
official support timeline from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9
(October 2020) does not support Windows 7. Another reason is user base
- according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA installations checking
for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides, Python 3.8 will
receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time before
moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.



To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released
in a few hours (hosted on my personal website):

* A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
* Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will
be detailed once released.



Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph

I would like to see NVDA keep up with the current releases of Python
and WX.
As Bill said, users on older operating systems don't usually care
about the newest of things. On the other hand, those who care about
the newest of things might want to use newer language features in 3.9.
The Linux world has been on Python 3.9 for a while now. Linux isn't
better than Windows, and I am not here to start a war. However, what
does it say about NVDA when Orca is already able to make use of Python
3.9. In fact, Orca screen reader gives it's users a choice on what
Python version we want to use. The only thing the documentation states
is that we have to use at least Python 3.75, and no later than 3.9.
If NVDA could give us that choice, things might have a better outcome
than always lagging behind a version of dependencies.





From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill
Dengler
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 4:44 AM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to
Python
3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1



Personally, I'd like to see us move to 3.9 (dependency compatibility
not
withstanding) as soon as possible.

Windows 7 is end of life
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-support-ended-o
n-janu
ary-14-2020-b75d4580-2cc7-895a-2c9c-1466d9a53962#:~:text=The%20specifi
c%20en d%20of%20support,longer%20available%20for%20the%20product.> ,
and the performance improvements and new language features in 3.9
shouldn't hold back users of current software. As 2021.1 will be an
API-breaking release, deprecating very old operating system versions
seems in line with removing old app modules and making
API-incompatible changes.

Similar to XP users, Windows 7 users could run 2020.4 indefinitely.
Users on an unsupported OS don't tend to be that interested in the
latest and greatest.

Thanks,

Bill

From: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
<nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io> > On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, 27 December 2020 00:11
To: nvda-devel@groups.io <mailto:nvda-devel@groups.io>
Subject: [nvda-devel] Announcing Project Walrus: porting NVDA to
Python
3.8
and wxPython 4.1.1



Hello NVDA development people,

IMPORTANT: the project described in this thread is mine, not part of
NV Access.

More than a year ago, you may recall NV Access announcing Project
Threshold to move NVDA from Python 2.7 to 3.7, resulting in NVDA
2019.3 in early 2020.
Well, the progress continues with Project Walrus, an (active) effort
to port NVDA to Python 3.8 and add wxPython 4.1.1 compatibility in
hopes of showcasing it in upcoming NVDA 2021.1. Folks watching my NVDA
fork may have noticed a branch called "walrus", and that's what that
branch is about.

Project Walrus comes from "walrus" operator (:=), used to denote
assignment expressions introduced in Python 3.8. With assignment
expression, you can do something like:

if someVariable := someCondition:

.



As opposed to:

someVariable = something

if someVariable == someCondition:

.



Project Walrus actually began shortly after NVDA 2019.3 was released -
as soon as Python 3.8 version of wxPython 4.1.x alpha snapshots were
released.
Due to control label issues in newer wxPython 4.0.x releases, I
decided to wait until 4.1.0 alpha came out, as 4.1.0 fixes control
label

Along
the way, some tweaks were made to not only run NVDA under Python 3.8,
but also gain the ability to build it under Python 3.8 as well. In
fact, with tweaks and dependency updates, you can build NVDA under
Python

The overall goal of Project Walrus is to port NVDA to run well under
Python 3.8, as well as prepare for wxPython 4.1.1. Key changes thanks
to Project Walrus (specifically, Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1)
include:

* Assignment expressions (walrus operator)
* Directly using gettext.pgettext to specify context for translatable
strings, replacing a built-in function workaround in current NVDA
releases.
* Os.add_dll_directory to securely load DLL's from known locations
(the function in question is built into Windows 8; Windows 7 SP1 users
must install a KB update to use NVDA from now on, but most
installations should have this installed).
* Actionable toast messages (more so on Windows 10). Among many
things, this will simplify NVDA update notifications.
* Updated wxWidgets localizations for many languages.



Why not Python 3.9? Python 3.9 does not support Windows 7 (you can't
install Python 3.9 on Windows 7) as Microsoft ended extended support
for Windows 7 in January 2020. Although paid support is available for
enterprises until early 2023, Python Software Foundation follows
official support timeline from Microsoft, therefore Python 3.9
(October 2020) does not support Windows 7. Another reason is user base
- according to NV Access, 17 percent of NVDA installations checking
for updates report running on Windows 7. Besides, Python 3.8 will
receive bug fixes until sometime in 2021, so we have time before
moving onto Python 3.9, or when ready, Python 3.10 in 2022.



To demonstrate Project Walrus, two prototype builds will be released
in a few hours (hosted on my personal website):

* A Python 3.7 version with wxPython 4.1.1 applied
* Both Python 3.8 and wxPython 4.1.1 applied

Details on these prototypes and what to expect (including bugs) will
be detailed once released.



Thanks, and please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph