Date   
Possible regression in NVDA 2019.3beta2 with screen curtain

Noelia Ruiz
 

Hello:

This has been reported by two users of NVDA in Spanish. One of them
has sent me the log in debug level and nvda.ini. Also, he has tested
this with add-ons disabled.

# Test environment

- Windows version 10.0.18363 workstation
- Language set to Windows (Spanish).


- Using braille and speech.

# STR:

- Press twice the keystroke to activate screen curtain.

# Actual

- NVDA reports that screen curtain has been enabled (permanently), but
this is set to False in configuration and is not enabled when NVDA is
restarted.

# Aditional context

- Screen curtain is properly enabled when using the Vision panel (NVDA's gui).
- The warning dialog of screen curtain is disabled.
- This issue is specific of NVDA 2019.3beta2, worked properly with beta1.

Thanks

Python3 standard library

Andy B.
 

Hi,

It has come to my attention from experience that the entire standard library for Python 3 is not included in NVDA. I am trying to continue with Developer toolkit, but missing packages in NVDA's version of Python 3.7.5 makes it impossible. At this point, I am missing xml.dom and all of its sub packages. I'm sure there's more, but this is what I noticed so far. NVDA should include the entire standard library instead of cutting it away to save space.


Re: update regarding addon workflow

Cyrille
 

Hello
@Joseph:
Thanks for clarification. And sorry not to have read carefully all e-mails.
@Beqa:
When you have created a personal repo for InstantTranslate, let me know so that I can make (again) a PR. Thanks.
Cheers,
Cyrille
----- Mail d'origine -----
De: Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...>
À: nvda-devel@groups.io
Envoyé: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 17:09:26 +0100 (CET)
Objet: Re: [nvda-devel] update regarding addon workflow
Hi,
As I wrote a while ago (and affirmed by add-on release workflow proposed by Mesar and Reef), people should be working from their own personal repositories, not from nvdaaddonns organization version of the repo. The organization version is meant for exchanging localization and release data, not as the primary development repo. As such, I will not review any pull requests for nvdaaddons repo changes if the PR does not come from personal repos. This applies to not just Instant Translate, but also other ones where Bitbucket repo was used as primary development repository.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Cyrille via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2020 2:09 PM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] update regarding addon workflow
When we were using Bitbucket, Beqa used to integrate directly the Pullrequests in the NVDA addons organisation's repo.
He was expecting to have the same rights in GitHub nvdaaddons organization. So, unless I am mistaken, he does not have a personal repo for this add-on.
So my question was: who has the right to merge the following PR:
https://github.com/nvdaaddons/instantTranslate/pull/1
If Beqa does not have the right to do it, how does he validate it as the current maintener (and co-author) of this add-on?
@Beqa:
If you have any news on this, let me know.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Cyrille
-----Message d'origine-----
De : nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> De la part de Noelia Ruiz Envoyé : dimanche 19 janvier 2020 22:53 À : nvda-devel@groups.io Objet : Re: [nvda-devel] update regarding addon workflow
Hello, as a person who helped Mesar, I confirm that instantTranslate is available on GitHub nvdaaddons organization, as well as all maintained add-ons previously available on BitBucket. Not sure if Beqa has a personal repo for this add-on too or if pull requests have to be sent there befor, but maintained add-ons should be available on GitHub.Cheers
Enviado desde mi iPhone
> El 19 ene 2020, a las 22:21, Cyrille via Groups.Io <cyrille.bougot2@...> escribió:
>
> Hello
>
> Thanks for all work.
>
> What about add-ons that were using directly the Bitbucket repo as main repo?
> I am thingking about Instant Translate on which Beqa had the right to
> merge the pull requests?
> Are the right transferred on Github? Can Beqa merge now my PR on this
> add-on?
> If no, should a separate fork become the main add-on's repo?
>
> Thanks.
> Regards,
>
> Cyrille
>
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> De la part de Mesar
> Hameed Envoyé : dimanche 19 janvier 2020 20:35 À :
> nvda-devel@groups.io; nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io Objet :
> [nvda-devel] update regarding addon workflow
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> After my original proposal, and Reef's proposal, and the various
> feedback we have had on both mailing lists, we will review everything
> and will come up with a unified solution.
>
> Considering the closeness of 2019.3, and the various work that addon
> authors have to do with regard to python 2 to 3 migration, additional
> metadata etc, we ask you to please continue working as before the
> migration from bitbucket, with the exception that all the repos are now on github.
>
> If you can get into the habbit of topic branches, pull requests, and
> reviewing each others work that would be great.
>
> If you took the time to read the proposed workflows, thank you, we
> will get back to you.
>
> Thank you for reading.
> Mesar
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: update regarding addon workflow

 

Hi,
As I wrote a while ago (and affirmed by add-on release workflow proposed by Mesar and Reef), people should be working from their own personal repositories, not from nvdaaddonns organization version of the repo. The organization version is meant for exchanging localization and release data, not as the primary development repo. As such, I will not review any pull requests for nvdaaddons repo changes if the PR does not come from personal repos. This applies to not just Instant Translate, but also other ones where Bitbucket repo was used as primary development repository.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> On Behalf Of Cyrille via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2020 2:09 PM
To: nvda-devel@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] update regarding addon workflow

When we were using Bitbucket, Beqa used to integrate directly the Pullrequests in the NVDA addons organisation's repo.
He was expecting to have the same rights in GitHub nvdaaddons organization. So, unless I am mistaken, he does not have a personal repo for this add-on.
So my question was: who has the right to merge the following PR:
https://github.com/nvdaaddons/instantTranslate/pull/1
If Beqa does not have the right to do it, how does he validate it as the current maintener (and co-author) of this add-on?

@Beqa:
If you have any news on this, let me know.

Thanks.
Cheers,

Cyrille

-----Message d'origine-----
De : nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> De la part de Noelia Ruiz Envoyé : dimanche 19 janvier 2020 22:53 À : nvda-devel@groups.io Objet : Re: [nvda-devel] update regarding addon workflow

Hello, as a person who helped Mesar, I confirm that instantTranslate is available on GitHub nvdaaddons organization, as well as all maintained add-ons previously available on BitBucket. Not sure if Beqa has a personal repo for this add-on too or if pull requests have to be sent there befor, but maintained add-ons should be available on GitHub.Cheers

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 19 ene 2020, a las 22:21, Cyrille via Groups.Io <cyrille.bougot2=laposte.net@groups.io> escribió:

Hello

Thanks for all work.

What about add-ons that were using directly the Bitbucket repo as main repo?
I am thingking about Instant Translate on which Beqa had the right to
merge the pull requests?
Are the right transferred on Github? Can Beqa merge now my PR on this
add-on?
If no, should a separate fork become the main add-on's repo?

Thanks.
Regards,

Cyrille


-----Message d'origine-----
De : nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> De la part de Mesar
Hameed Envoyé : dimanche 19 janvier 2020 20:35 À :
nvda-devel@groups.io; nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io Objet :
[nvda-devel] update regarding addon workflow

Dear Friends,

After my original proposal, and Reef's proposal, and the various
feedback we have had on both mailing lists, we will review everything
and will come up with a unified solution.

Considering the closeness of 2019.3, and the various work that addon
authors have to do with regard to python 2 to 3 migration, additional
metadata etc, we ask you to please continue working as before the
migration from bitbucket, with the exception that all the repos are now on github.

If you can get into the habbit of topic branches, pull requests, and
reviewing each others work that would be great.

If you took the time to read the proposed workflows, thank you, we
will get back to you.

Thank you for reading.
Mesar






Re: update regarding addon workflow

Cyrille
 

When we were using Bitbucket, Beqa used to integrate directly the Pullrequests in the NVDA addons organisation's repo.
He was expecting to have the same rights in GitHub nvdaaddons organization. So, unless I am mistaken, he does not have a personal repo for this add-on.
So my question was: who has the right to merge the following PR:
https://github.com/nvdaaddons/instantTranslate/pull/1
If Beqa does not have the right to do it, how does he validate it as the current maintener (and co-author) of this add-on?

@Beqa:
If you have any news on this, let me know.

Thanks.
Cheers,

Cyrille

-----Message d'origine-----
De : nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> De la part de Noelia Ruiz
Envoyé : dimanche 19 janvier 2020 22:53
À : nvda-devel@groups.io
Objet : Re: [nvda-devel] update regarding addon workflow

Hello, as a person who helped Mesar, I confirm that instantTranslate is available on GitHub nvdaaddons organization, as well as all maintained add-ons previously available on BitBucket. Not sure if Beqa has a personal repo for this add-on too or if pull requests have to be sent there befor, but maintained add-ons should be available on GitHub.Cheers

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 19 ene 2020, a las 22:21, Cyrille via Groups.Io <cyrille.bougot2=laposte.net@groups.io> escribió:

Hello

Thanks for all work.

What about add-ons that were using directly the Bitbucket repo as main repo?
I am thingking about Instant Translate on which Beqa had the right to
merge the pull requests?
Are the right transferred on Github? Can Beqa merge now my PR on this
add-on?
If no, should a separate fork become the main add-on's repo?

Thanks.
Regards,

Cyrille


-----Message d'origine-----
De : nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> De la part de Mesar
Hameed Envoyé : dimanche 19 janvier 2020 20:35 À :
nvda-devel@groups.io; nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io Objet :
[nvda-devel] update regarding addon workflow

Dear Friends,

After my original proposal, and Reef's proposal, and the various
feedback we have had on both mailing lists, we will review everything
and will come up with a unified solution.

Considering the closeness of 2019.3, and the various work that addon
authors have to do with regard to python 2 to 3 migration, additional
metadata etc, we ask you to please continue working as before the
migration from bitbucket, with the exception that all the repos are now on github.

If you can get into the habbit of topic branches, pull requests, and
reviewing each others work that would be great.

If you took the time to read the proposed workflows, thank you, we
will get back to you.

Thank you for reading.
Mesar






Re: update regarding addon workflow

Noelia Ruiz
 

Hello, as a person who helped Mesar, I confirm that instantTranslate is available on GitHub nvdaaddons organization, as well as all maintained add-ons previously available on BitBucket. Not sure if Beqa has a personal repo for this add-on too or if pull requests have to be sent there befor, but maintained add-ons should be available on GitHub.Cheers

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 19 ene 2020, a las 22:21, Cyrille via Groups.Io <cyrille.bougot2=laposte.net@groups.io> escribió:

Hello

Thanks for all work.

What about add-ons that were using directly the Bitbucket repo as main repo?
I am thingking about Instant Translate on which Beqa had the right to merge
the pull requests?
Are the right transferred on Github? Can Beqa merge now my PR on this
add-on?
If no, should a separate fork become the main add-on's repo?

Thanks.
Regards,

Cyrille


-----Message d'origine-----
De : nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> De la part de Mesar Hameed
Envoyé : dimanche 19 janvier 2020 20:35
À : nvda-devel@groups.io; nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Objet : [nvda-devel] update regarding addon workflow

Dear Friends,

After my original proposal, and Reef's proposal, and the various feedback we
have had on both mailing lists, we will review everything and will come up
with a unified solution.

Considering the closeness of 2019.3, and the various work that addon authors
have to do with regard to python 2 to 3 migration, additional metadata etc,
we ask you to please continue working as before the migration from
bitbucket, with the exception that all the repos are now on github.

If you can get into the habbit of topic branches, pull requests, and
reviewing each others work that would be great.

If you took the time to read the proposed workflows, thank you, we will get
back to you.

Thank you for reading.
Mesar






Re: update regarding addon workflow

Cyrille
 

Hello

Thanks for all work.

What about add-ons that were using directly the Bitbucket repo as main repo?
I am thingking about Instant Translate on which Beqa had the right to merge
the pull requests?
Are the right transferred on Github? Can Beqa merge now my PR on this
add-on?
If no, should a separate fork become the main add-on's repo?

Thanks.
Regards,

Cyrille

-----Message d'origine-----
De : nvda-devel@groups.io <nvda-devel@groups.io> De la part de Mesar Hameed
Envoyé : dimanche 19 janvier 2020 20:35
À : nvda-devel@groups.io; nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Objet : [nvda-devel] update regarding addon workflow

Dear Friends,

After my original proposal, and Reef's proposal, and the various feedback we
have had on both mailing lists, we will review everything and will come up
with a unified solution.

Considering the closeness of 2019.3, and the various work that addon authors
have to do with regard to python 2 to 3 migration, additional metadata etc,
we ask you to please continue working as before the migration from
bitbucket, with the exception that all the repos are now on github.

If you can get into the habbit of topic branches, pull requests, and
reviewing each others work that would be great.

If you took the time to read the proposed workflows, thank you, we will get
back to you.

Thank you for reading.
Mesar

Re: update regarding addon workflow

Noelia Ruiz
 

Thanks for clarification. Tomorrow I will review pr 2 for Weather Plus
by Abdel and will merge into master. Also, I will update placeMarkers
dev requesting a review at least from Abdel too, open to others.
This will make braille follows the cursor properly when moving to
bookmarks, dealing with vision framework. I have a braille display at
home at this moment and today have realise about this inconvenience,
which can be fixed using obj._set_selection(info) instead of
info.updateSelection().

2020-01-19 20:34 GMT+01:00, Mesar Hameed <mesar.hameed@...>:

Dear Friends,

After my original proposal, and Reef's proposal, and the various feedback we
have had on both mailing lists, we will review everything and
will come up with a unified solution.

Considering the closeness of 2019.3, and the various work that addon authors
have to do with regard to python 2 to 3 migration, additional
metadata etc, we ask you to please continue working as before the migration
from bitbucket, with the exception that all the repos are now on
github.

If you can get into the habbit of topic branches, pull requests, and
reviewing each others work that would be great.

If you took the time to read the proposed workflows, thank you, we will get
back to you.

Thank you for reading.
Mesar



update regarding addon workflow

Mesar Hameed
 

Dear Friends,

After my original proposal, and Reef's proposal, and the various feedback we have had on both mailing lists, we will review everything and
will come up with a unified solution.

Considering the closeness of 2019.3, and the various work that addon authors have to do with regard to python 2 to 3 migration, additional
metadata etc, we ask you to please continue working as before the migration from bitbucket, with the exception that all the repos are now on
github.

If you can get into the habbit of topic branches, pull requests, and reviewing each others work that would be great.

If you took the time to read the proposed workflows, thank you, we will get back to you.

Thank you for reading.
Mesar

Re: Error preparing source

ChrisLM
 

Hi Reef,

My apologize if I no longer wrote how I solved that.

I don't know why, I was convinced that NVDA had been compiled with python 3.7.6.
Reviewing a log for other reasons my eye fell on the python version used in NVDA and I understood where I was wrong.
Yes, reverting to Python 3.7.5 solves all errors here too.

Thanks so much,


Chris.
Reef Turner ha scritto il 17/01/2020 alle 18:42:

Hi Chris,

Sorry if you have been struggling with this issue for a while. We have had some other reports of this error, they seemed to have been resolved by reverting to Python 3.7.5, could you please try this also?

Regards,
Reef Turner (NV Access)

Re: Error preparing source

Reef Turner
 

Hi Chris,

Sorry if you have been struggling with this issue for a while. We have had some other reports of this error, they seemed to have been resolved by reverting to Python 3.7.5, could you please try this also?

Regards,
Reef Turner (NV Access)

Re: NVDA 2019.3 and add-ons: more updates and commitments are on the way

Brian's Mail list account
 

As a matter of interest, is there a way for those of us who have merely changed the manifest and think the add ons work but who want to submit them for more scrutiny who are not the author who has lost contact, to get them looked at in an uploaded list somewhere. I've not checked which of mine I've modified, but will do a check and post it here if its of any use to anyone.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
Newsgroup monitored: alt.comp.blind-users

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <@joslee>
To: <nvda-devel@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 4:51 PM
Subject: [nvda-devel] NVDA 2019.3 and add-ons: more updates and commitments are on the way


Hi all,



Another 2019.3 beta, another update on status of community add-ons. The good
news is that there has been commitments to support NVDA 2019.3 from more
add-ons; the bad news is delayed release of some 2019.3 compatible add-ons.



Updated statistics and notes:



* Compatible: 39
* Planned: 5
* Work in progress: 8
* Incompatible: 16
* Features included in NVDA: 2
* Many incompatible add-ons are listed as such due to missing or out
of date add-on manifest information.



Next steps between today and 24 hours after 2019.3 RC 1 is released:



* Compatible add-ons: please begin preparation for releasing a stable
version compatible with 2019.3 or later.
* Add-ons with compatibility planned or work in progress: keep up the
good work. For planned add-ons, please make sure your add-ons are getting
ready for 2019.3 so status can be changed to "work in progress".
* Incompatible add-ons: please evaluate your add-ons with 2019.3 beta
2 and do let the community know (mostly through communicating on NVDA
development list or add-ons list) that you are either planning a 2019.3
compatible version, work is in progress, or ready for 2019.3. Please submit
your response no later than the deadline noted above (24 hours after RC1 is
released) so compatibility list can be updated accordingly.
* For add-ons with no manifest information: please add appropriate
manifest information (minimum version and last tested version flags) so your
add-ons can be installed in 2019.3 or later.
* Add-ons with outdated manifest information: please evaluate your
add-ons with 2019.3 beta 2 and provide updated manifest information
accordingly.



In regards to manifest updates, ideally it should come from add-on authors
themselves unless we can't contact current add-on authors, in which case
someone from the community should take care of it soon.



Notable add-ons:



* Remote: NV Access sent pull requests to authors of this add-on.
* DictationBridge: version 1.1 (compatible with NVDA 2019.3) will be
released shortly before NVDA 2019.3 stable version comes out.
* Speech synthesizers: more synthesizer add-ons are becoming
compatible with 2019.3.



As always, if you have feedback on various add-ons (especially when it comes
to 2019.3 compatibility), please send them to add-on authors.



Hope to see more add-ons become compatible by the time next compatibility
update is sent (NVDA 2019.3 RC1 or next beta).

Cheers,

Joseph



NVDA 2019.3 and add-ons: more updates and commitments are on the way

 

Hi all,

 

Another 2019.3 beta, another update on status of community add-ons. The good news is that there has been commitments to support NVDA 2019.3 from more add-ons; the bad news is delayed release of some 2019.3 compatible add-ons.

 

Updated statistics and notes:

 

  • Compatible: 39
  • Planned: 5
  • Work in progress: 8
  • Incompatible: 16
  • Features included in NVDA: 2
  • Many incompatible add-ons are listed as such due to missing or out of date add-on manifest information.

 

Next steps between today and 24 hours after 2019.3 RC 1 is released:

 

  • Compatible add-ons: please begin preparation for releasing a stable version compatible with 2019.3 or later.
  • Add-ons with compatibility planned or work in progress: keep up the good work. For planned add-ons, please make sure your add-ons are getting ready for 2019.3 so status can be changed to “work in progress”.
  • Incompatible add-ons: please evaluate your add-ons with 2019.3 beta 2 and do let the community know (mostly through communicating on NVDA development list or add-ons list) that you are either planning a 2019.3 compatible version, work is in progress, or ready for 2019.3. Please submit your response no later than the deadline noted above (24 hours after RC1 is released) so compatibility list can be updated accordingly.
  • For add-ons with no manifest information: please add appropriate manifest information (minimum version and last tested version flags) so your add-ons can be installed in 2019.3 or later.
  • Add-ons with outdated manifest information: please evaluate your add-ons with 2019.3 beta 2 and provide updated manifest information accordingly.

 

In regards to manifest updates, ideally it should come from add-on authors themselves unless we can’t contact current add-on authors, in which case someone from the community should take care of it soon.

 

Notable add-ons:

 

  • Remote: NV Access sent pull requests to authors of this add-on.
  • DictationBridge: version 1.1 (compatible with NVDA 2019.3) will be released shortly before NVDA 2019.3 stable version comes out.
  • Speech synthesizers: more synthesizer add-ons are becoming compatible with 2019.3.

 

As always, if you have feedback on various add-ons (especially when it comes to 2019.3 compatibility), please send them to add-on authors.

 

Hope to see more add-ons become compatible by the time next compatibility update is sent (NVDA 2019.3 RC1 or next beta).

Cheers,

Joseph

Re: NVDA Audio player library need to be improved?

Beqa Gozalishvili
 

hi.

yes, wasapi on windows 10 is only sound subsystem with low latency, so
i also think nvda audio output should be rewritten using wasapi behind
scene.

On 1/13/20, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
I was merely saying that the disgruntled users are not all blind, indeed
many just say its almost unusable. How can Microsoft allow such rubbish.
Anyway, this is getting off topic. I'm sure Microsoft are aware of the
problem but its messy and frustrating when normally windows drivers exist
without this kind of problem, indeed my internal card on this 2015 pc with

the same hardware does not exhibit the issues at all, the only reason I use

external is that internal hardware picks up analogue crud from the digital
lines and psu in the pc, so I use a cheap sound box via an isolated self
powered usb.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
Newsgroup monitored: alt.comp.blind-users
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaVid" <dhf360@...>
To: <nvda-devel@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] NVDA Audio player library need to be improved?


I have three external soundcards. A roland, and two from yamaha. No
issues on them.
I didn't try with JAWS to test if those issues are present, I don't
want to install junk software on my computers. hehe.

This is the situation: on windows 10, the drivers set the buffer for
the audio. The bigger is the buffer, higher the latency. I think that
realtec driver has a very large buffer.
Windows can change the buffer size if an application requests for it.
rEal, the software that I think you are talking about, do it. Works
well, but that implies that the user will need to install more
software on the system.
But the main issue I think, its the delay when reset the WavePlayer.
tone.beep calls player.stop before play a tone. The stop method is
very slow in realtec drivers.

In theory, wasapi protocol can get a more direct access to the device,
so it should reduce the latency. But I don't have a easy method to
test it.

I'm reading articles about how to use Wasapi from python. PortAudio
can do it, but I don't want to use a third party library. Since NVDA
doesn't need to run in other platforms, a multiplatform library like
portAudio isn't needed.

Cheers,
David.

2020-01-13 3:43 GMT-06:00, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>:
Lots of people have complained about this driver from its sudden decision

to

turn off sound so you miss the tart to latency and all sorts of other
weirdness. I'd have thought by now Microsoft would have put their foot
down

with a firm hand and made them make one that was less buggy and messy.
Its not just blind people who moan about these. particularly on laptops.
There is also a little program about that holds a sound channel open by
constantly sending silence to it I believe but I've still got an older
machine sand use an external sound box.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
Newsgroup monitored: alt.comp.blind-users
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaVid" <dhf360@...>
To: "nvda-devel" <nvda-devel@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 7:19 AM
Subject: [nvda-devel] NVDA Audio player library need to be improved?


Hi there!

Sumary: the current wavePlayer has high latency on some sound cards.
Also the delay to reset the player (when player.stopis called) is
extremely high when using stereo mode (2 channels).

1. latency: This usually happens on most modern realtec drivers, that
are present in majority of computers. The latency affects the general
usability. I usually replace the original realtec drivers, but not all
users know how to do this. I also lose functionality by doing this.

2. stop method: The delay of stop method is very anoying when use the
tones library. E.G. when using the track mouse movement sound. Even
this thing interrupts the current speaking voice.

3. Soundcard output and general NVDA's volume: currently users can
adjust the volume for synthesizers only. Sometimes when I decrease the
synth volume, my ears are hurt cause of the other NVDA's sounds.

Possible solution for latency: Use a more direct audio mode, the user
could choose between modes according their needs. Windows have MME,
DirectSound, wasapi modes. At least in wasapi, the buffer can be
changed. So, the user can modify that.

For stop player issue, we could avoid to call this method or implement
an internal method to stop the audio without reset the device. I
implemented an aproach for the tones library that works properly.
Download my tones library here. Use it on your own risk, is just a
experimental add-on.
https://fromsmash.com/-G4UEonUeX-c0

For general volume, an user has developed a plug-in to solve it, but
it shouldn't be solved by plug-ins.

How did I discover this?

The past week an user reported to me an issue with my add-on called
beepKeyboard. I was unable to reproduce his issue because I tested it
on all my computers and worked correctly. Worked because I don't have
the original realtec drivers.

some days ago I received a very small laptop with a fresh copy of
windows 10 and the issues appeared.
Its worse when using this laptop in battery mode.

the sound feature of the mouse movement worked incorrectlytoo, so the
issue is not in my add-on. The synthesizer is interrupted when NVDA
plays a tone.
Then I did a simple two tests.
1. Play a tone beep from console. The delay between I send the command
and the tone was played, is very high.
2. Opened the console, and set a timer to play a tone in 1 second.
Then I read a text with the current synth, and the tone interrupted
the synth when speaking.

I thought that the issue was in the tones library,so I wrote my own
tones library. It worked correctly on mono, but when I set it to
stereo, the issues were the same.

Then I solved it sending small chunks of audio to the player in a
background thread. By this way,I can control the stop functionality of
a beep without using player.stop method.
I send this libraryin an add-on to some users, worked correctly for
them in all cases. No latency, no synth interruptions.

P.S: sorry for sending this to both lists. Is a priority issue I
think.And the devel list is not very read in my opinion.

Cheers,
DaVid.










--
with best regards beqa

Re: NVDA Audio player library need to be improved?

Brian's Mail list account
 

I was merely saying that the disgruntled users are not all blind, indeed many just say its almost unusable. How can Microsoft allow such rubbish. Anyway, this is getting off topic. I'm sure Microsoft are aware of the problem but its messy and frustrating when normally windows drivers exist without this kind of problem, indeed my internal card on this 2015 pc with the same hardware does not exhibit the issues at all, the only reason I use external is that internal hardware picks up analogue crud from the digital lines and psu in the pc, so I use a cheap sound box via an isolated self powered usb.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "DaVid" <dhf360@...>
To: <nvda-devel@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda-devel] NVDA Audio player library need to be improved?


I have three external soundcards. A roland, and two from yamaha. No
issues on them.
I didn't try with JAWS to test if those issues are present, I don't
want to install junk software on my computers. hehe.

This is the situation: on windows 10, the drivers set the buffer for
the audio. The bigger is the buffer, higher the latency. I think that
realtec driver has a very large buffer.
Windows can change the buffer size if an application requests for it.
rEal, the software that I think you are talking about, do it. Works
well, but that implies that the user will need to install more
software on the system.
But the main issue I think, its the delay when reset the WavePlayer.
tone.beep calls player.stop before play a tone. The stop method is
very slow in realtec drivers.

In theory, wasapi protocol can get a more direct access to the device,
so it should reduce the latency. But I don't have a easy method to
test it.

I'm reading articles about how to use Wasapi from python. PortAudio
can do it, but I don't want to use a third party library. Since NVDA
doesn't need to run in other platforms, a multiplatform library like
portAudio isn't needed.

Cheers,
David.

2020-01-13 3:43 GMT-06:00, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>:
Lots of people have complained about this driver from its sudden decision to

turn off sound so you miss the tart to latency and all sorts of other
weirdness. I'd have thought by now Microsoft would have put their foot down

with a firm hand and made them make one that was less buggy and messy.
Its not just blind people who moan about these. particularly on laptops.
There is also a little program about that holds a sound channel open by
constantly sending silence to it I believe but I've still got an older
machine sand use an external sound box.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
Newsgroup monitored: alt.comp.blind-users
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaVid" <dhf360@...>
To: "nvda-devel" <nvda-devel@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 7:19 AM
Subject: [nvda-devel] NVDA Audio player library need to be improved?


Hi there!

Sumary: the current wavePlayer has high latency on some sound cards.
Also the delay to reset the player (when player.stopis called) is
extremely high when using stereo mode (2 channels).

1. latency: This usually happens on most modern realtec drivers, that
are present in majority of computers. The latency affects the general
usability. I usually replace the original realtec drivers, but not all
users know how to do this. I also lose functionality by doing this.

2. stop method: The delay of stop method is very anoying when use the
tones library. E.G. when using the track mouse movement sound. Even
this thing interrupts the current speaking voice.

3. Soundcard output and general NVDA's volume: currently users can
adjust the volume for synthesizers only. Sometimes when I decrease the
synth volume, my ears are hurt cause of the other NVDA's sounds.

Possible solution for latency: Use a more direct audio mode, the user
could choose between modes according their needs. Windows have MME,
DirectSound, wasapi modes. At least in wasapi, the buffer can be
changed. So, the user can modify that.

For stop player issue, we could avoid to call this method or implement
an internal method to stop the audio without reset the device. I
implemented an aproach for the tones library that works properly.
Download my tones library here. Use it on your own risk, is just a
experimental add-on.
https://fromsmash.com/-G4UEonUeX-c0

For general volume, an user has developed a plug-in to solve it, but
it shouldn't be solved by plug-ins.

How did I discover this?

The past week an user reported to me an issue with my add-on called
beepKeyboard. I was unable to reproduce his issue because I tested it
on all my computers and worked correctly. Worked because I don't have
the original realtec drivers.

some days ago I received a very small laptop with a fresh copy of
windows 10 and the issues appeared.
Its worse when using this laptop in battery mode.

the sound feature of the mouse movement worked incorrectlytoo, so the
issue is not in my add-on. The synthesizer is interrupted when NVDA
plays a tone.
Then I did a simple two tests.
1. Play a tone beep from console. The delay between I send the command
and the tone was played, is very high.
2. Opened the console, and set a timer to play a tone in 1 second.
Then I read a text with the current synth, and the tone interrupted
the synth when speaking.

I thought that the issue was in the tones library,so I wrote my own
tones library. It worked correctly on mono, but when I set it to
stereo, the issues were the same.

Then I solved it sending small chunks of audio to the player in a
background thread. By this way,I can control the stop functionality of
a beep without using player.stop method.
I send this libraryin an add-on to some users, worked correctly for
them in all cases. No latency, no synth interruptions.

P.S: sorry for sending this to both lists. Is a priority issue I
think.And the devel list is not very read in my opinion.

Cheers,
DaVid.





Re: NVDA Audio player library need to be improved?

DaVid
 

I have three external soundcards. A roland, and two from yamaha. No
issues on them.
I didn't try with JAWS to test if those issues are present, I don't
want to install junk software on my computers. hehe.

This is the situation: on windows 10, the drivers set the buffer for
the audio. The bigger is the buffer, higher the latency. I think that
realtec driver has a very large buffer.
Windows can change the buffer size if an application requests for it.
rEal, the software that I think you are talking about, do it. Works
well, but that implies that the user will need to install more
software on the system.
But the main issue I think, its the delay when reset the WavePlayer.
tone.beep calls player.stop before play a tone. The stop method is
very slow in realtec drivers.

In theory, wasapi protocol can get a more direct access to the device,
so it should reduce the latency. But I don't have a easy method to
test it.

I'm reading articles about how to use Wasapi from python. PortAudio
can do it, but I don't want to use a third party library. Since NVDA
doesn't need to run in other platforms, a multiplatform library like
portAudio isn't needed.

Cheers,
David.

2020-01-13 3:43 GMT-06:00, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>:

Lots of people have complained about this driver from its sudden decision to

turn off sound so you miss the tart to latency and all sorts of other
weirdness. I'd have thought by now Microsoft would have put their foot down

with a firm hand and made them make one that was less buggy and messy.
Its not just blind people who moan about these. particularly on laptops.
There is also a little program about that holds a sound channel open by
constantly sending silence to it I believe but I've still got an older
machine sand use an external sound box.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
Newsgroup monitored: alt.comp.blind-users
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaVid" <dhf360@...>
To: "nvda-devel" <nvda-devel@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 7:19 AM
Subject: [nvda-devel] NVDA Audio player library need to be improved?


Hi there!

Sumary: the current wavePlayer has high latency on some sound cards.
Also the delay to reset the player (when player.stopis called) is
extremely high when using stereo mode (2 channels).

1. latency: This usually happens on most modern realtec drivers, that
are present in majority of computers. The latency affects the general
usability. I usually replace the original realtec drivers, but not all
users know how to do this. I also lose functionality by doing this.

2. stop method: The delay of stop method is very anoying when use the
tones library. E.G. when using the track mouse movement sound. Even
this thing interrupts the current speaking voice.

3. Soundcard output and general NVDA's volume: currently users can
adjust the volume for synthesizers only. Sometimes when I decrease the
synth volume, my ears are hurt cause of the other NVDA's sounds.

Possible solution for latency: Use a more direct audio mode, the user
could choose between modes according their needs. Windows have MME,
DirectSound, wasapi modes. At least in wasapi, the buffer can be
changed. So, the user can modify that.

For stop player issue, we could avoid to call this method or implement
an internal method to stop the audio without reset the device. I
implemented an aproach for the tones library that works properly.
Download my tones library here. Use it on your own risk, is just a
experimental add-on.
https://fromsmash.com/-G4UEonUeX-c0

For general volume, an user has developed a plug-in to solve it, but
it shouldn't be solved by plug-ins.

How did I discover this?

The past week an user reported to me an issue with my add-on called
beepKeyboard. I was unable to reproduce his issue because I tested it
on all my computers and worked correctly. Worked because I don't have
the original realtec drivers.

some days ago I received a very small laptop with a fresh copy of
windows 10 and the issues appeared.
Its worse when using this laptop in battery mode.

the sound feature of the mouse movement worked incorrectlytoo, so the
issue is not in my add-on. The synthesizer is interrupted when NVDA
plays a tone.
Then I did a simple two tests.
1. Play a tone beep from console. The delay between I send the command
and the tone was played, is very high.
2. Opened the console, and set a timer to play a tone in 1 second.
Then I read a text with the current synth, and the tone interrupted
the synth when speaking.

I thought that the issue was in the tones library,so I wrote my own
tones library. It worked correctly on mono, but when I set it to
stereo, the issues were the same.

Then I solved it sending small chunks of audio to the player in a
background thread. By this way,I can control the stop functionality of
a beep without using player.stop method.
I send this libraryin an add-on to some users, worked correctly for
them in all cases. No latency, no synth interruptions.

P.S: sorry for sending this to both lists. Is a priority issue I
think.And the devel list is not very read in my opinion.

Cheers,
DaVid.





Re: NVDA Audio player library need to be improved?

Brian's Mail list account
 

Lots of people have complained about this driver from its sudden decision to turn off sound so you miss the tart to latency and all sorts of other weirdness. I'd have thought by now Microsoft would have put their foot down with a firm hand and made them make one that was less buggy and messy.
Its not just blind people who moan about these. particularly on laptops.
There is also a little program about that holds a sound channel open by constantly sending silence to it I believe but I've still got an older machine sand use an external sound box.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
Newsgroup monitored: alt.comp.blind-users

----- Original Message -----
From: "DaVid" <dhf360@...>
To: "nvda-devel" <nvda-devel@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 7:19 AM
Subject: [nvda-devel] NVDA Audio player library need to be improved?


Hi there!

Sumary: the current wavePlayer has high latency on some sound cards.
Also the delay to reset the player (when player.stopis called) is
extremely high when using stereo mode (2 channels).

1. latency: This usually happens on most modern realtec drivers, that
are present in majority of computers. The latency affects the general
usability. I usually replace the original realtec drivers, but not all
users know how to do this. I also lose functionality by doing this.

2. stop method: The delay of stop method is very anoying when use the
tones library. E.G. when using the track mouse movement sound. Even
this thing interrupts the current speaking voice.

3. Soundcard output and general NVDA's volume: currently users can
adjust the volume for synthesizers only. Sometimes when I decrease the
synth volume, my ears are hurt cause of the other NVDA's sounds.

Possible solution for latency: Use a more direct audio mode, the user
could choose between modes according their needs. Windows have MME,
DirectSound, wasapi modes. At least in wasapi, the buffer can be
changed. So, the user can modify that.

For stop player issue, we could avoid to call this method or implement
an internal method to stop the audio without reset the device. I
implemented an aproach for the tones library that works properly.
Download my tones library here. Use it on your own risk, is just a
experimental add-on.
https://fromsmash.com/-G4UEonUeX-c0

For general volume, an user has developed a plug-in to solve it, but
it shouldn't be solved by plug-ins.

How did I discover this?

The past week an user reported to me an issue with my add-on called
beepKeyboard. I was unable to reproduce his issue because I tested it
on all my computers and worked correctly. Worked because I don't have
the original realtec drivers.

some days ago I received a very small laptop with a fresh copy of
windows 10 and the issues appeared.
Its worse when using this laptop in battery mode.

the sound feature of the mouse movement worked incorrectlytoo, so the
issue is not in my add-on. The synthesizer is interrupted when NVDA
plays a tone.
Then I did a simple two tests.
1. Play a tone beep from console. The delay between I send the command
and the tone was played, is very high.
2. Opened the console, and set a timer to play a tone in 1 second.
Then I read a text with the current synth, and the tone interrupted
the synth when speaking.

I thought that the issue was in the tones library,so I wrote my own
tones library. It worked correctly on mono, but when I set it to
stereo, the issues were the same.

Then I solved it sending small chunks of audio to the player in a
background thread. By this way,I can control the stop functionality of
a beep without using player.stop method.
I send this libraryin an add-on to some users, worked correctly for
them in all cases. No latency, no synth interruptions.

P.S: sorry for sending this to both lists. Is a priority issue I
think.And the devel list is not very read in my opinion.

Cheers,
DaVid.

NVDA Audio player library need to be improved?

DaVid
 

Hi there!

Sumary: the current wavePlayer has high latency on some sound cards.
Also the delay to reset the player (when player.stopis called) is
extremely high when using stereo mode (2 channels).

1. latency: This usually happens on most modern realtec drivers, that
are present in majority of computers. The latency affects the general
usability. I usually replace the original realtec drivers, but not all
users know how to do this. I also lose functionality by doing this.

2. stop method: The delay of stop method is very anoying when use the
tones library. E.G. when using the track mouse movement sound. Even
this thing interrupts the current speaking voice.

3. Soundcard output and general NVDA's volume: currently users can
adjust the volume for synthesizers only. Sometimes when I decrease the
synth volume, my ears are hurt cause of the other NVDA's sounds.

Possible solution for latency: Use a more direct audio mode, the user
could choose between modes according their needs. Windows have MME,
DirectSound, wasapi modes. At least in wasapi, the buffer can be
changed. So, the user can modify that.

For stop player issue, we could avoid to call this method or implement
an internal method to stop the audio without reset the device. I
implemented an aproach for the tones library that works properly.
Download my tones library here. Use it on your own risk, is just a
experimental add-on.
https://fromsmash.com/-G4UEonUeX-c0

For general volume, an user has developed a plug-in to solve it, but
it shouldn't be solved by plug-ins.

How did I discover this?

The past week an user reported to me an issue with my add-on called
beepKeyboard. I was unable to reproduce his issue because I tested it
on all my computers and worked correctly. Worked because I don't have
the original realtec drivers.

some days ago I received a very small laptop with a fresh copy of
windows 10 and the issues appeared.
Its worse when using this laptop in battery mode.

the sound feature of the mouse movement worked incorrectlytoo, so the
issue is not in my add-on. The synthesizer is interrupted when NVDA
plays a tone.
Then I did a simple two tests.
1. Play a tone beep from console. The delay between I send the command
and the tone was played, is very high.
2. Opened the console, and set a timer to play a tone in 1 second.
Then I read a text with the current synth, and the tone interrupted
the synth when speaking.

I thought that the issue was in the tones library,so I wrote my own
tones library. It worked correctly on mono, but when I set it to
stereo, the issues were the same.

Then I solved it sending small chunks of audio to the player in a
background thread. By this way,I can control the stop functionality of
a beep without using player.stop method.
I send this libraryin an add-on to some users, worked correctly for
them in all cases. No latency, no synth interruptions.

P.S: sorry for sending this to both lists. Is a priority issue I
think.And the devel list is not very read in my opinion.

Cheers,
DaVid.

Re: About ui.message in NVDA 2019.3

Javi Domínguez
 

Hi. It is true. It was a mistake but it was not real code, just an example.

El 12/01/2020 a las 22:36, Marlon Brandão de Sousa escribió:
Not sure weather this is intended or not but one of your lines is ui.message and the other is ui.messages (with an s)

On 21/12/2019 19:06, Javi Domínguez wrote:
Hello.

I am adapting an add-on for NVDA 2019.3 and I have noticed strange behavior at speak messages.

I have something like this:

x, y = winUser.getCursorPos()
ui.messages("cursor in %d,%d" % (x,y))
winUser.setCursorPos(a, b)
ui.message("Moved to %d,%d" % (a,b))

in 2019.2 and earlier all messages are spoken, as always, but in 2019.3 beta the first message is spoken but not the second or the following.

Is there any reason for this or is it perhaps a mistake?

Greeetings

Javi Dominguez





Re: About ui.message in NVDA 2019.3

Marlon Brandão de Sousa
 

Not sure weather this is intended or not but one of your lines is ui.message and the other is ui.messages (with an s)

On 21/12/2019 19:06, Javi Domínguez wrote:
Hello.

I am adapting an add-on for NVDA 2019.3 and I have noticed strange behavior at speak messages.

I have something like this:

x, y = winUser.getCursorPos()
ui.messages("cursor in %d,%d" % (x,y))
winUser.setCursorPos(a, b)
ui.message("Moved to %d,%d" % (a,b))

in 2019.2 and earlier all messages are spoken, as always, but in 2019.3 beta the first message is spoken but not the second or the following.

Is there any reason for this or is it perhaps a mistake?

Greeetings

Javi Dominguez