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Hi there NUGA,
I have inherited a proxmox server. I have used it in labs, and have found it to be pretty solid. I am wondering if anyone is using it in production, and if you would share your feedback?
Thanks. --- Book time with me here: https://calendly.com/jptechnical ___ _______
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|_______|___| JP (Jesse Perry) voice/text: 907-748-2200
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Hi JP,
I have had Proxmox in production since 2015, including multiple clusters with hyperconverged clustered storage, at small ISPs and medium-sized businesses.
As a wrapper/management system for KVM and LXC, I have no complaints -- it is simple and effective (and the price is right.)
However, I have also supported the project financially since day 1, as they also do good work around high availability and storage clustering -- I don't know of any other projects making true HA so accessible at the price.
To sum up, proxmox is a well-maintained product for those who have a moderate to advanced amount of linux-fu; it doesn't really get in the way.
I also run it in my garage heater home lab which may be a *teensy* bit out of hand.
Feel free to ask more questions, Jeremy Austin IdeaLoft
On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:09 AM JP < jp@...> wrote: Hi there NUGA,
I have inherited a proxmox server. I have used it in labs, and have found it to be pretty solid. I am wondering if anyone is using it in production, and if you would share your feedback?
Thanks. --- Book time with me here: https://calendly.com/jptechnical ___ _______
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___| | ___|
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|_______|___| JP (Jesse Perry) voice/text: 907-748-2200
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Thanks Jeremy, glad for your positive feedback!
I am a Xen/XenServer user from way back, and really just about every hypervisor out there EXCEPT proxmox. --- Book time with me here: https://calendly.com/jptechnical ___ _______
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|_______|___| JP (Jesse Perry) voice/text: 907-748-2200
On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:53 AM Jeremy Austin < jhaustin@...> wrote: Hi JP,
I have had Proxmox in production since 2015, including multiple clusters with hyperconverged clustered storage, at small ISPs and medium-sized businesses.
As a wrapper/management system for KVM and LXC, I have no complaints -- it is simple and effective (and the price is right.)
However, I have also supported the project financially since day 1, as they also do good work around high availability and storage clustering -- I don't know of any other projects making true HA so accessible at the price.
To sum up, proxmox is a well-maintained product for those who have a moderate to advanced amount of linux-fu; it doesn't really get in the way.
I also run it in my garage heater home lab which may be a *teensy* bit out of hand.
Feel free to ask more questions, Jeremy Austin IdeaLoft
On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:09 AM JP < jp@...> wrote: Hi there NUGA,
I have inherited a proxmox server. I have used it in labs, and have found it to be pretty solid. I am wondering if anyone is using it in production, and if you would share your feedback?
Thanks. --- Book time with me here: https://calendly.com/jptechnical ___ _______
| | |
| | _ |
| | |_| |
___| | ___|
| | |
|_______|___| JP (Jesse Perry) voice/text: 907-748-2200
--
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It's KVM, but it's not libvirsh-compatible KVM. Not a bad product, but they built their own management stack. I've used it and have to support it, but at this stage of the game, there's nothing they're doing that you can't roll on your own for free. The only value-add I see is that the web GUI makes KVM management more approachable for those with less linux-fu than others. On Fri, 19 Nov 2021, Jeremy Austin wrote: Hi JP,
I have had Proxmox in production since 2015, including multiple clusters
with hyperconverged clustered storage, at small ISPs and medium-sized
businesses.
As a wrapper/management system for KVM and LXC, I have no complaints -- it
is simple and effective (and the price is right.)
However, I have also supported the project financially since day 1, as they
also do good work around high availability and storage clustering -- I
don't know of any other projects making true HA so accessible at the price.
To sum up, proxmox is a well-maintained product for those who have a
moderate to advanced amount of linux-fu; it doesn't really get in the way.
I also run it in my garage heater home lab which may be a *teensy* bit out
of hand.
Feel free to ask more questions,
Jeremy Austin
IdeaLoft
On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:09 AM JP <jp@...> wrote:
Hi there NUGA,
I have inherited a proxmox server. I have used it in labs, and have found
it to be pretty solid. I am wondering if anyone is using it in
production, and if you would share your feedback?
Thanks.
---
*Book time with me here: *https://calendly.com/jptechnical
___ _______
| | |
| | _ |
| | |_| |
___| | ___|
| | |
|_______|___|
*JP (Jesse Perry)*
voice/text: 907-748-2200
email: jp@...
web: http://jptechnical.com
support: helpdesk@...
Please write me a review <https://g.page/r/CcMcHymyhgMIEAg/review>
<https://www.jptechnical.com/hipaa/>
--
Jeremy Austin
jhaustin@...
--Arthur Corliss Live Free or Die
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I can both agree and disagree, respectfully, with Arthur. It’s entirely true that one can set up HA for cluster state and roll clustered storage by hand. I’ve done it myself. But I disagree about free. My time is worth too much (well, worth too much to me), and someone else will come after me — there’s something to be said for Not Maintained By Me.
And frankly if one has less linux-fu, then arguably ESXI — or even a “cloud provider” (dirty phrase) is a better choice than Proxmox these days. The “web gui” functionality is the least useful part of Proxmox for me.
Free is only free if one ignores entire swathes of hidden costs. If it were truly worth rolling my own it would be worth competing against the guys who can productize it; if what I want, however, is something they don’t make, then it is not a fair comparison and my only choice is to roll my own.
Not to dismiss Mr Corliss’ perspective; a solution is only a solution if it fits one’s use case.
Regards, /J
On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 12:00 PM Arthur Corliss < acorliss@...> wrote: It's KVM, but it's not libvirsh-compatible KVM. Not a bad product, but they
built their own management stack. I've used it and have to support it,
but at this stage of the game, there's nothing they're doing that
you can't roll on your own for free. The only value-add I see is that the
web GUI makes KVM management more approachable for those with less linux-fu
than others.
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021, Jeremy Austin wrote:
> Hi JP,
>
> I have had Proxmox in production since 2015, including multiple clusters
> with hyperconverged clustered storage, at small ISPs and medium-sized
> businesses.
>
> As a wrapper/management system for KVM and LXC, I have no complaints -- it
> is simple and effective (and the price is right.)
>
> However, I have also supported the project financially since day 1, as they
> also do good work around high availability and storage clustering -- I
> don't know of any other projects making true HA so accessible at the price.
>
> To sum up, proxmox is a well-maintained product for those who have a
> moderate to advanced amount of linux-fu; it doesn't really get in the way.
>
> I also run it in my garage heater home lab which may be a *teensy* bit out
> of hand.
>
> Feel free to ask more questions,
> Jeremy Austin
> IdeaLoft
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:09 AM JP <jp@...> wrote:
>
>> Hi there NUGA,
>>
>> I have inherited a proxmox server. I have used it in labs, and have found
>> it to be pretty solid. I am wondering if anyone is using it in
>> production, and if you would share your feedback?
>>
>> Thanks.
>> ---
>> *Book time with me here: *https://calendly.com/jptechnical
>>
>> ___ _______
>> | | |
>> | | _ |
>> | | |_| |
>> ___| | ___|
>> | | |
>> |_______|___|
>>
>> *JP (Jesse Perry)*
>> voice/text: 907-748-2200
>> email: jp@...
>> web: http://jptechnical.com
>> support: helpdesk@...
>> Please write me a review <https://g.page/r/CcMcHymyhgMIEAg/review>
>> <https://www.jptechnical.com/hipaa/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jeremy Austin
> jhaustin@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
--Arthur Corliss
Live Free or Die
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On Fri, 19 Nov 2021, Jeremy Austin wrote: I can both agree and disagree, respectfully, with Arthur. It?s entirely
true that one can set up HA for cluster state and roll clustered storage by
hand. I?ve done it myself. But I disagree about free. My time is worth too
much (well, worth too much to me), and someone else will come after me ?
there?s something to be said for Not Maintained By Me.
And frankly if one has less linux-fu, then arguably ESXI ? or even a ?cloud
provider? (dirty phrase) is a better choice than Proxmox these days. The
?web gui? functionality is the least useful part of Proxmox for me.
Free is only free if one ignores entire swathes of hidden costs. If it were
truly worth rolling my own it would be worth competing against the guys who
can productize it; if what I want, however, is something they don?t make,
then it is not a fair comparison and my only choice is to roll my own.
Not to dismiss Mr Corliss? perspective; a solution is only a solution if it
fits one?s use case. You made the case that it had value for medium to advanced Linux users, but I disagree, it's value proposition is precisely in the beginning Linux users. Advanced users won't find it that time consuming to roll out a DFS and a more open standard infrastructure without licensing costs, moreso when you consider any decent level of automation and/or config management system can keep all that running, and scaling for years. Heck, if you're going to pay licensing costs, a good CMS is going pay a much higher ROI across the bar than proxmox. And that's before you consider that learning proxmox is learning a toolset that's not used anywhere else. You're much more likely to run into a libvirsh-compatible infrastructure out there than proxmox. At the end of the day, it's just math, and I don't see the business case for it. They've done a good job with it, I'm not dissing the quality of their work, but it's just another apple that you're paying a premium for, not an orange. I know of no market-differentiating feature set that they provide. Would I pay proxmox before I paid vmware? Certainly. Proxmox is a viable commercial alternative. But for a basic HA virtualization platform without orchestration, I wouldn't pay for either one. The open source alternatives have matured enough to destroy that business case. --Arthur Corliss Live Free or Die
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Good feedback everyone, I appreciate it. Just to clarify, I have been a linux user since the 90s, and in addition to my service business I work as a DevOps engineer for an enterprise, we build systems at scale with kubernetes in both private and public clouds.
My question was more centered around the reliability of proxmox in a very small business and from the standpoint of a small business service provider who doesn't want to have to fiddle with it much. Was there any reason to replace it. I am getting the feeling like there is no reason to replace it other than the ford vs chevy argument.
Again, thanks for the feedback, that was what I was looking for! --- Book time with me here: https://calendly.com/jptechnical ___ _______
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___| | ___|
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|_______|___| JP (Jesse Perry) voice/text: 907-748-2200
On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:34 PM Arthur Corliss < acorliss@...> wrote: On Fri, 19 Nov 2021, Jeremy Austin wrote:
> I can both agree and disagree, respectfully, with Arthur. It?s entirely
> true that one can set up HA for cluster state and roll clustered storage by
> hand. I?ve done it myself. But I disagree about free. My time is worth too
> much (well, worth too much to me), and someone else will come after me ?
> there?s something to be said for Not Maintained By Me.
>
> And frankly if one has less linux-fu, then arguably ESXI ? or even a ?cloud
> provider? (dirty phrase) is a better choice than Proxmox these days. The
> ?web gui? functionality is the least useful part of Proxmox for me.
>
> Free is only free if one ignores entire swathes of hidden costs. If it were
> truly worth rolling my own it would be worth competing against the guys who
> can productize it; if what I want, however, is something they don?t make,
> then it is not a fair comparison and my only choice is to roll my own.
>
> Not to dismiss Mr Corliss? perspective; a solution is only a solution if it
> fits one?s use case.
You made the case that it had value for medium to advanced Linux users, but
I disagree, it's value proposition is precisely in the beginning Linux
users. Advanced users won't find it that time consuming to roll out a DFS
and a more open standard infrastructure without licensing costs, moreso when
you consider any decent level of automation and/or config management system
can keep all that running, and scaling for years. Heck, if you're going to
pay licensing costs, a good CMS is going pay a much higher ROI across the
bar than proxmox. And that's before you consider that learning proxmox is
learning a toolset that's not used anywhere else. You're much more likely
to run into a libvirsh-compatible infrastructure out there than proxmox.
At the end of the day, it's just math, and I don't see the business case for
it. They've done a good job with it, I'm not dissing the quality of their
work, but it's just another apple that you're paying a premium for, not an
orange. I know of no market-differentiating feature set that they provide.
Would I pay proxmox before I paid vmware? Certainly. Proxmox is a viable
commercial alternative. But for a basic HA virtualization platform without
orchestration, I wouldn't pay for either one. The open source alternatives
have matured enough to destroy that business case.
--Arthur Corliss
Live Free or Die
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|
|
On Sat, 20 Nov 2021, JP wrote: Good feedback everyone, I appreciate it. Just to clarify, I have been a
linux user since the 90s, and in addition to my service business I work as
a DevOps engineer for an enterprise, we build systems at scale with
kubernetes in both private and public clouds.
My question was more centered around the reliability of proxmox in a very
small business and from the standpoint of a small business service provider
who doesn't want to have to fiddle with it much. Was there any reason to
replace it. I am getting the feeling like there is no reason to replace it
other than the ford vs chevy argument. I think you're spot on. If you already have it, no need to replace it, it does the job. --Arthur Corliss Live Free or Die
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