Date   

Re: Is anyone using proxmox in production?

Arthur Corliss
 

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021, JP wrote:

Good feedback everyone, I appreciate it. Just to clarify, I have been a
linux user since the 90s, and in addition to my service business I work as
a DevOps engineer for an enterprise, we build systems at scale with
kubernetes in both private and public clouds.

My question was more centered around the reliability of proxmox in a very
small business and from the standpoint of a small business service provider
who doesn't want to have to fiddle with it much. Was there any reason to
replace it. I am getting the feeling like there is no reason to replace it
other than the ford vs chevy argument.
I think you're spot on. If you already have it, no need to replace it, it
does the job.

--Arthur Corliss
Live Free or Die


Re: Is anyone using proxmox in production?

JP
 

Good feedback everyone, I appreciate it. Just to clarify, I have been a linux user since the 90s, and in addition to my service business I work as a DevOps engineer for an enterprise, we build systems at scale with kubernetes in both private and public clouds. 

My question was more centered around the reliability of proxmox in a very small business and from the standpoint of a small business service provider who doesn't want to have to fiddle with it much. Was there any reason to replace it. I am getting the feeling like there is no reason to replace it other than the ford vs chevy argument.

Again, thanks for the feedback, that was what I was looking for!
---
Book time with me here: https://calendly.com/jptechnical
     ___ _______ 
    |   |       |
    |   |    _  |
    |   |   |_| |
 ___|   |    ___|
|       |   |    
|_______|___|    
JP (Jesse Perry)
voice/text: 907-748-2200
email: jp@...
support: helpdesk@...



On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:34 PM Arthur Corliss <acorliss@...> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021, Jeremy Austin wrote:

> I can both agree and disagree, respectfully, with Arthur. It?s entirely
> true that one can set up HA for cluster state and roll clustered storage by
> hand. I?ve done it myself. But I disagree about free. My time is worth too
> much (well, worth too much to me), and someone else will come after me ?
> there?s something to be said for Not Maintained By Me.
>
> And frankly if one has less linux-fu, then arguably ESXI ? or even a ?cloud
> provider? (dirty phrase) is a better choice than Proxmox these days. The
> ?web gui? functionality is the least useful part of Proxmox for me.
>
> Free is only free if one ignores entire swathes of hidden costs. If it were
> truly worth rolling my own it would be worth competing against the guys who
> can  productize it; if what I want, however, is something they don?t make,
> then it is not a fair comparison and my only choice is to roll my own.
>
> Not to dismiss Mr Corliss? perspective; a solution is only a solution if it
> fits one?s use case.

You made the case that it had value for medium to advanced Linux users, but
I disagree, it's value proposition is precisely in the beginning Linux
users.  Advanced users won't find it that time consuming to roll out a DFS
and a more open standard infrastructure without licensing costs, moreso when
you consider any decent level of automation and/or config management system
can keep all that running, and scaling for years.  Heck, if you're going to
pay licensing costs, a good CMS is going pay a much higher ROI across the
bar than proxmox.  And that's before you consider that learning proxmox is
learning a toolset that's not used anywhere else.  You're much more likely
to run into a libvirsh-compatible infrastructure out there than proxmox.

At the end of the day, it's just math, and I don't see the business case for
it.  They've done a good job with it, I'm not dissing the quality of their
work, but it's just another apple that you're paying a premium for, not an
orange.  I know of no market-differentiating feature set that they provide.

Would I pay proxmox before I paid vmware?  Certainly.  Proxmox is a viable
commercial alternative.  But for a basic HA virtualization platform without
orchestration, I wouldn't pay for either one.  The open source alternatives
have matured enough to destroy that business case.

        --Arthur Corliss
          Live Free or Die






Re: Is anyone using proxmox in production?

Arthur Corliss
 

On Fri, 19 Nov 2021, Jeremy Austin wrote:

I can both agree and disagree, respectfully, with Arthur. It?s entirely
true that one can set up HA for cluster state and roll clustered storage by
hand. I?ve done it myself. But I disagree about free. My time is worth too
much (well, worth too much to me), and someone else will come after me ?
there?s something to be said for Not Maintained By Me.

And frankly if one has less linux-fu, then arguably ESXI ? or even a ?cloud
provider? (dirty phrase) is a better choice than Proxmox these days. The
?web gui? functionality is the least useful part of Proxmox for me.

Free is only free if one ignores entire swathes of hidden costs. If it were
truly worth rolling my own it would be worth competing against the guys who
can productize it; if what I want, however, is something they don?t make,
then it is not a fair comparison and my only choice is to roll my own.

Not to dismiss Mr Corliss? perspective; a solution is only a solution if it
fits one?s use case.
You made the case that it had value for medium to advanced Linux users, but
I disagree, it's value proposition is precisely in the beginning Linux
users. Advanced users won't find it that time consuming to roll out a DFS
and a more open standard infrastructure without licensing costs, moreso when
you consider any decent level of automation and/or config management system
can keep all that running, and scaling for years. Heck, if you're going to
pay licensing costs, a good CMS is going pay a much higher ROI across the
bar than proxmox. And that's before you consider that learning proxmox is
learning a toolset that's not used anywhere else. You're much more likely
to run into a libvirsh-compatible infrastructure out there than proxmox.

At the end of the day, it's just math, and I don't see the business case for
it. They've done a good job with it, I'm not dissing the quality of their
work, but it's just another apple that you're paying a premium for, not an
orange. I know of no market-differentiating feature set that they provide.

Would I pay proxmox before I paid vmware? Certainly. Proxmox is a viable
commercial alternative. But for a basic HA virtualization platform without
orchestration, I wouldn't pay for either one. The open source alternatives
have matured enough to destroy that business case.

--Arthur Corliss
Live Free or Die


Re: Is anyone using proxmox in production?

Jeremy Austin
 

I can both agree and disagree, respectfully, with Arthur. It’s entirely true that one can set up HA for cluster state and roll clustered storage by hand. I’ve done it myself. But I disagree about free. My time is worth too much (well, worth too much to me), and someone else will come after me — there’s something to be said for Not Maintained By Me. 

And frankly if one has less linux-fu, then arguably ESXI — or even a “cloud provider” (dirty phrase) is a better choice than Proxmox these days. The “web gui” functionality is the least useful part of Proxmox for me. 

Free is only free if one ignores entire swathes of hidden costs. If it were truly worth rolling my own it would be worth competing against the guys who can  productize it; if what I want, however, is something they don’t make, then it is not a fair comparison and my only choice is to roll my own. 

Not to dismiss Mr Corliss’ perspective; a solution is only a solution if it fits one’s use case. 

Regards,
/J

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 12:00 PM Arthur Corliss <acorliss@...> wrote:
It's KVM, but it's not libvirsh-compatible KVM.  Not a bad product, but they
built their own management stack.  I've used it and have to support it,
but at this stage of the game, there's nothing they're doing that
you can't roll on your own for free.  The only value-add I see is that the
web GUI makes KVM management more approachable for those with less linux-fu
than others.

On Fri, 19 Nov 2021, Jeremy Austin wrote:

> Hi JP,
>
> I have had Proxmox in production since 2015, including multiple clusters
> with hyperconverged clustered storage, at small ISPs and medium-sized
> businesses.
>
> As a wrapper/management system for KVM and LXC, I have no complaints -- it
> is simple and effective (and the price is right.)
>
> However, I have also supported the project financially since day 1, as they
> also do good work around high availability and storage clustering -- I
> don't know of any other projects making true HA so accessible at the price.
>
> To sum up, proxmox is a well-maintained product for those who have a
> moderate to advanced amount of linux-fu; it doesn't really get in the way.
>
> I also run it in my garage heater home lab which may be a *teensy* bit out
> of hand.
>
> Feel free to ask more questions,
> Jeremy Austin
> IdeaLoft
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:09 AM JP <jp@...> wrote:
>
>> Hi there NUGA,
>>
>> I have inherited a proxmox server. I have used it in labs, and have found
>> it to be pretty solid. I am wondering if anyone is using it in
>> production, and if you would share your feedback?
>>
>> Thanks.
>> ---
>> *Book time with me here: *https://calendly.com/jptechnical
>>
>>      ___ _______
>>     |   |       |
>>     |   |    _  |
>>     |   |   |_| |
>>  ___|   |    ___|
>> |       |   |
>> |_______|___|
>>
>> *JP (Jesse Perry)*
>> voice/text: 907-748-2200
>> email: jp@...
>> web: http://jptechnical.com
>> support: helpdesk@...
>> Please write me a review <https://g.page/r/CcMcHymyhgMIEAg/review>
>> <https://www.jptechnical.com/hipaa/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jeremy Austin
> jhaustin@...
>
>
>
>
>
>

        --Arthur Corliss
          Live Free or Die





--
Jeremy Austin


FW: ArcticCon 2021 Live!

Jerry Tibor
 

All,

 

ArcticCon sent a special registration link for NUGA members.  Details are below.

 

Have a great Thanksgiving!

 

Jerry

 

--

 

Jerry Tibor
Electronic Student Services Lead
University of Alaska Anchorage

jftibor@...
(907) 786-4734 - office

 

From: ArcticCon Info <info@...>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2021 12:03 PM
To: jftibor@...
Cc: Matt Peters <matt@...>
Subject: ArcticCon 2021 Live!

 

Hi Jerry,

 

We are excited to invite you and the NUGA group to this year's ArcticCon Live on December 2nd, 2021 at Marriott Downtown Anchorage.

Below is a special link for NUGA if you would like to invite the members.

 

 

ArcticCon is an IT conference based in Anchorage, Alaska with its start in 2017. ArcticCon’s mission is to provide technical information from industry experts to educate the IT community of Alaska about new advancements in Cyber Security and Information Technology.

 

Just a reminder, we will have the virtual platform up with the talks, but ArcticCon this year is live at the Marriott downtown.

 

 

Please let me know if you have any questions

Thanks,

ArcticCon Team

 


Re: Is anyone using proxmox in production?

Arthur Corliss
 

It's KVM, but it's not libvirsh-compatible KVM. Not a bad product, but they
built their own management stack. I've used it and have to support it,
but at this stage of the game, there's nothing they're doing that
you can't roll on your own for free. The only value-add I see is that the
web GUI makes KVM management more approachable for those with less linux-fu
than others.

On Fri, 19 Nov 2021, Jeremy Austin wrote:

Hi JP,

I have had Proxmox in production since 2015, including multiple clusters
with hyperconverged clustered storage, at small ISPs and medium-sized
businesses.

As a wrapper/management system for KVM and LXC, I have no complaints -- it
is simple and effective (and the price is right.)

However, I have also supported the project financially since day 1, as they
also do good work around high availability and storage clustering -- I
don't know of any other projects making true HA so accessible at the price.

To sum up, proxmox is a well-maintained product for those who have a
moderate to advanced amount of linux-fu; it doesn't really get in the way.

I also run it in my garage heater home lab which may be a *teensy* bit out
of hand.

Feel free to ask more questions,
Jeremy Austin
IdeaLoft

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:09 AM JP <jp@...> wrote:

Hi there NUGA,

I have inherited a proxmox server. I have used it in labs, and have found
it to be pretty solid. I am wondering if anyone is using it in
production, and if you would share your feedback?

Thanks.
---
*Book time with me here: *https://calendly.com/jptechnical

___ _______
| | |
| | _ |
| | |_| |
___| | ___|
| | |
|_______|___|

*JP (Jesse Perry)*
voice/text: 907-748-2200
email: jp@...
web: http://jptechnical.com
support: helpdesk@...
Please write me a review <https://g.page/r/CcMcHymyhgMIEAg/review>
<https://www.jptechnical.com/hipaa/>



--
Jeremy Austin
jhaustin@...




--Arthur Corliss
Live Free or Die


Re: Is anyone using proxmox in production?

JP
 

Thanks Jeremy, glad for your positive feedback! 

I am a Xen/XenServer user from way back, and really just about every hypervisor out there EXCEPT proxmox. 
---
Book time with me here: https://calendly.com/jptechnical
     ___ _______ 
    |   |       |
    |   |    _  |
    |   |   |_| |
 ___|   |    ___|
|       |   |    
|_______|___|    
JP (Jesse Perry)
voice/text: 907-748-2200
email: jp@...
support: helpdesk@...



On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:53 AM Jeremy Austin <jhaustin@...> wrote:
Hi JP, 

I have had Proxmox in production since 2015, including multiple clusters with hyperconverged clustered storage, at small ISPs and medium-sized businesses.

As a wrapper/management system for KVM and LXC, I have no complaints -- it is simple and effective (and the price is right.)

However, I have also supported the project financially since day 1, as they also do good work around high availability and storage clustering -- I don't know of any other projects making true HA so accessible at the price.

To sum up, proxmox is a well-maintained product for those who have a moderate to advanced amount of linux-fu; it doesn't really get in the way.

I also run it in my garage heater home lab which may be a *teensy* bit out of hand.

Feel free to ask more questions,
Jeremy Austin
IdeaLoft

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:09 AM JP <jp@...> wrote:
Hi there NUGA, 

I have inherited a proxmox server. I have used it in labs, and have found it to be pretty solid. I am wondering if anyone is using it in production, and if you would share your feedback?

Thanks.
---
Book time with me here: https://calendly.com/jptechnical
     ___ _______ 
    |   |       |
    |   |    _  |
    |   |   |_| |
 ___|   |    ___|
|       |   |    
|_______|___|    
JP (Jesse Perry)
voice/text: 907-748-2200
email: jp@...
support: helpdesk@...



--
Jeremy Austin


Re: Is anyone using proxmox in production?

Jeremy Austin
 

Hi JP, 

I have had Proxmox in production since 2015, including multiple clusters with hyperconverged clustered storage, at small ISPs and medium-sized businesses.

As a wrapper/management system for KVM and LXC, I have no complaints -- it is simple and effective (and the price is right.)

However, I have also supported the project financially since day 1, as they also do good work around high availability and storage clustering -- I don't know of any other projects making true HA so accessible at the price.

To sum up, proxmox is a well-maintained product for those who have a moderate to advanced amount of linux-fu; it doesn't really get in the way.

I also run it in my garage heater home lab which may be a *teensy* bit out of hand.

Feel free to ask more questions,
Jeremy Austin
IdeaLoft

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 11:09 AM JP <jp@...> wrote:
Hi there NUGA, 

I have inherited a proxmox server. I have used it in labs, and have found it to be pretty solid. I am wondering if anyone is using it in production, and if you would share your feedback?

Thanks.
---
Book time with me here: https://calendly.com/jptechnical
     ___ _______ 
    |   |       |
    |   |    _  |
    |   |   |_| |
 ___|   |    ___|
|       |   |    
|_______|___|    
JP (Jesse Perry)
voice/text: 907-748-2200
email: jp@...
support: helpdesk@...



--
Jeremy Austin


Is anyone using proxmox in production?

JP
 

Hi there NUGA, 

I have inherited a proxmox server. I have used it in labs, and have found it to be pretty solid. I am wondering if anyone is using it in production, and if you would share your feedback?

Thanks.
---
Book time with me here: https://calendly.com/jptechnical
     ___ _______ 
    |   |       |
    |   |    _  |
    |   |   |_| |
 ___|   |    ___|
|       |   |    
|_______|___|    
JP (Jesse Perry)
voice/text: 907-748-2200
email: jp@...
support: helpdesk@...


Calling all independant techs in Anchorage

JP
 

Hi NUGA, 

I am looking for a local independent tech who might be available on occasion for on-site work. My go-to guy of many years has moved out of state, and I am afraid I won't be able to take a vacation again. I don't have an urgent need, I am just planning for the future.

Also, I am transitioning back to fully managed services and all-you-can-eat support agreements, and will no longer be taking on break/fix or time and materials customers after the first of the year. So, I am also looking for a small independent tech or small shop who would be able to take referrals for residential and small businesses who are only looking for break/fix support. There might be some of my existing clients who won't be interested in moving to managed services, so I would like to white-glove transition them to a new company that I have experience with.

Please let me know if you are interested. Have a great, chilly, week!
---
Book time with me here: https://calendly.com/jptechnical
     ___ _______ 
    |   |       |
    |   |    _  |
    |   |   |_| |
 ___|   |    ___|
|       |   |    
|_______|___|    
JP (Jesse Perry)
President: JP Technical
voice/text: 907-748-2200
email: jp@...
support: helpdesk@...


FW: ArcticCon 2021 Live! Registration Code

Jerry Tibor
 

ArcticCon 2021 will be live this year on December 2nd, 2021!!!

 

It will also be streamed for those who can’t make it in person.

 

More information and a link to register with a free basic pass code are included below.

 

Jerry

 

--

 

Jerry Tibor
Electronic Student Services Lead
University of Alaska Anchorage

jftibor@...
(907) 786-4734 - office

 

From: ArcticCon Team <info@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 2:04 PM
To: jftibor@...
Subject: ArcticCon 2021 Live! Registration Code

 

ArcticCon 2021 is Live December 2nd 2021
at Anchorage Marriott Downtown

Register Early!

 

 

 

Alaska's own ArcticCon 2021 is back and live!  Registration is open and we have a free basic pass code included below.  Join us for talks from IT experts, hands on experiences at the various villages or just to see others from your field that you haven't seen in awhile.

 

 

 

 

FAQs:

Are there workshops this year?
Yes, there are at least 2 workshops that will be conducted the day before the event.  We will have that information on the website shortly.

Can I participate remotely?
As you probably already know, ArcticCon is way more fun in person.  However, we will be streaming talks on our virtual conference platform.  

What are you doing to prevent COVID-19 spread?
We are enforcing any government standards that are required (of course), but in addition we will be doing passive screening using thermal cameras on entrance and providing optional protections such as face masks and social distancing bracelets.

I've already purchased my basic ticket, can I get a refund or upgrade?
Definitely!  Just let us know which you prefer.  If you've already purchased basic we'll upgrade your pass to deluxe automatically.

 

 

Copyright © 2021 ArcticCon, All rights reserved.
You are receiving this email because you have previously attended an ArcticCon event.

Our mailing address is:

ArcticCon

PO Box 190869 66116

Anchorage, AK 99519


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NUGA Update

Jerry Tibor
 

Our in-person meetings are again delayed by the ongoing closure of the BP Energy Center until at least January and the upswing in COVID cases.  Even with an alternate meeting place, presenters are not currently traveling to Alaska.  Also, outdoor dining for the next few months of the COVID surge is not practical so we will continue to err on the side of caution!

 

Our project manager and refurbishment guru, Tim Trueblood, sprouted feathers and became a snow bird this fall.  He left us a huge nest egg of desktops and gear.  We also have some routers and gear that would support a network.

 

Our biggest problem is we have all the desktops and monitors we can use, but COVID has dried up our usual charities for distribution.  If you know of any charities or educational sites that could possibly use our help or technology please bring it to Jerry or John’s attention.

 

Because of our overstock and lack of distribution, we are not accepting any more equipment donations at this time.

 

We hope this finds you safe and well and we will continue to update you about future meetings and events!

 

Jerry

 

--

 

Jerry Tibor
Vice-President, Network Users Group Alaska
http://www.nuga.org

 

jftibor@...
(907) 786-4734 - office

 


Re: Nuga Status

Larry Bowlus
 

Great

-----Original Message-----
From: nuga@groups.io <nuga@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Allen
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 8:58 PM
To: nuga@groups.io
Cc: nuga list <NUGA@...>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [nuga] Nuga Status

Thanks everyone for replying. I will stayed as we used to say. ;-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Tibor via groups.io" <jtibor@...>
To: nuga@groups.io, "nuga list" <NUGA@...>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 10:34:30 AM
Subject: [nuga] Nuga Status

Nuga is alive and hunkered down. We are still waiting for the energy center to reopen. Jerry keeps reserving meeting space. We still are looking for board members.
John Tibor
Treasurer







The information contained in this email (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, print, copy, retain, distribute, or disclose its content. If you have received this email in error, please advise us by return email.

To ensure the security of your personal information, do not send account numbers, social-security numbers or credit card information via email. Secure methods for transmitting such information include telephone and fax.


Re: Nuga Status

John Allen
 

Thanks everyone for replying. I will stayed as we used to say. ;-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Tibor via groups.io" <jtibor@...>
To: nuga@groups.io, "nuga list" <NUGA@...>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 10:34:30 AM
Subject: [nuga] Nuga Status

Nuga is alive and hunkered down. We are still waiting for the energy center to reopen. Jerry keeps reserving meeting space. We still are looking for board members.
John Tibor
Treasurer


Re: Nuga Status

Jim Henry
 

John - how many people normally attend? I have a conference room that handle 15-20 or so that you're welcome to use. 

On Monday, August 30, 2021, 10:34:35 AM AKDT, John Tibor via groups.io <jtibor@...> wrote:


Nuga is alive and hunkered down. We are still waiting for the energy center to reopen. Jerry keeps reserving meeting space. We still are looking for board members.
John Tibor
Treasurer







Nuga Status

John Tibor
 

Nuga is alive and hunkered down. We are still waiting for the energy center to reopen. Jerry keeps reserving meeting space. We still are looking for board members.
John Tibor
Treasurer
Sent from my iPhone


Re: Just checking....

John Tibor
 

Hi,

NUGA is still alive and waiting for the BP Energy Center to reopen. Our Vice President Jerry keeps reserving meeting space so that we can meet when possible. We will just need presenters when that happens. 

Thanks for the question John, it was an opportunity to post an update.

John Tibor
Treasurer


On Aug 29, 2021, at 10:41 PM, John Allen <big.griz@...> wrote:


Resending since the below message bounced.


From: "John Allen" <big.griz@...>
To: "nuga-board" <nuga-board@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2021 10:39:57 PM
Subject: Just checking....

Hi John, Jerry, All.

Was trying to figure out if we are meeting again for monthly meeting at BP Energy Center.  I checked their web site and it says it is closed through September at which point they will reassess.  Haven't heard too much in the way of email except the occasional job posting a few times something relatively bad has gotten typical security.  Please tell NUGA exists..... please.  Been missing our monthly meeting.  Thanks and I hope all are well.

John A.
Tech II
Court System


Just checking....

John Allen
 

Resending since the below message bounced.


From: "John Allen" <big.griz@...>
To: "nuga-board" <nuga-board@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2021 10:39:57 PM
Subject: Just checking....

Hi John, Jerry, All.

Was trying to figure out if we are meeting again for monthly meeting at BP Energy Center.  I checked their web site and it says it is closed through September at which point they will reassess.  Haven't heard too much in the way of email except the occasional job posting a few times something relatively bad has gotten typical security.  Please tell NUGA exists..... please.  Been missing our monthly meeting.  Thanks and I hope all are well.

John A.
Tech II
Court System


CTG is searching for a full time Device

David W. Monroe
 

CTG is searching for a full time Device Tester to join our team in Anchorage, AK.  This is a remote position but must be local to Alaska.

 

Click the link for a detailed job description: http://m.rfer.us/CTGjyc13t

 

 

Thank you,

 

Dave

 

David Monroe
Consulting Engineer, Diversified Industrials

o: +1 907 261 4700    m: +1 907 360 0517

david.monroe@...

 

 

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File Cabinets

Timothy B. Trueblood
 

Hello,

I have 4 each 4 drawer file cabinets for sale.

2 each letter size; with locks and keys, $12.50
1 each letter size, no lock, $10.00
1 each legal size, no lock, $10.00

Send an email or call 907 441-0319

First come; first serve.

Tim
--
Tim Trueblood
cell: 907 441-0319
land: 907 272-1627
_fax: 907 272-1628
email: ttrueblood@...

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