Date   
Re: MFSK16 bandwidth?

Michael WA7SKG
 

A declared emergency has no impact on the rules. There are basically two exceptions from the established rules. In an actual (not training or preparation) life or death situation when *no other means of communication are available* limited communications may be made by any means to seek assistance. The FCC intent on this rule was in cases of exceeding one's license class, e.g. a Technician Class operating on 20 meters to get help. The other rule exception is in the form of an STA (Special Temporary Authorization) requested through the FCC authorizing something special. For instance, several STAs were issued after Hurricane Katrina allowing certain ham stations to interface with local broadcast stations for dissemination of emergency information. The declared emergency was the justification for the request.

Michael WA7SKG

Wayne Santos wrote on 3/29/20 9:40 AM:

What about during a declared emergency?
Wayne
Wayne W. Santos
N1CKM
SEC
NH ARES
n1ckm@... <mailto:n1ckm@...>
n1ckm78sec@... <mailto:n1ckm78sec@...>
603-856-5459
Twitter: #n1ckm78
www.nh-ares.org <http://www.nh-ares.org>
On Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 8:24 AM Dave Colter <dbcolter@... <mailto:dbcolter@...>> wrote:
Thanks to all who answered. I’m surprised my own search didn’t pick
up the emissions chart John posted. Gotta love Google ads clogging
up search results. After looking at the charts on w1hkj.com
<http://w1hkj.com>,  and the Part 97 definition of image modes, I
found that none of the modes in Fldigi qualify as image modes. Oh
well.____
__ __
The reason for the question had to do with nets. On SHARES nets
(government frequencies) we are able to send digital messages on the
voice net frequency (we use MT63-1K-L), which improves the
efficiency of the net. There is no repeated moving off to a new
frequency, retuning, etc.. The thought is that if a legal “image”
mode can effectively send forms and documents, just like a fax
machine, we can move the messages in-net as long as it’s low volume.
We would do this until the traffic volume increased to the point
where it’s more efficient to move to an all-digital net for traffic.____
__ __
Back to the drawing board!____
73,____
Dave Colter WA1ZCN____
ASEC, Training - NH-ARES____
www.nh-ares.org <http://www.nh-ares.org/>____
Hamshack Hotline: Ext. 4806____
SHARES Voice: NNA1DC____
__ __

Re: MFSK16 bandwidth?

Wayne Santos
 

What about during a declared emergency?

Wayne

Wayne W. Santos
N1CKM
SEC
NH ARES
n1ckm@...
n1ckm78sec@...
603-856-5459
Twitter: #n1ckm78
www.nh-ares.org


On Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 8:24 AM Dave Colter <dbcolter@...> wrote:

Thanks to all who answered. I’m surprised my own search didn’t pick up the emissions chart John posted. Gotta love Google ads clogging up search results. After looking at the charts on w1hkj.com,  and the Part 97 definition of image modes, I found that none of the modes in Fldigi qualify as image modes. Oh well.

 

The reason for the question had to do with nets. On SHARES nets (government frequencies) we are able to send digital messages on the voice net frequency (we use MT63-1K-L), which improves the efficiency of the net. There is no repeated moving off to a new frequency, retuning, etc.. The thought is that if a legal “image” mode can effectively send forms and documents, just like a fax machine, we can move the messages in-net as long as it’s low volume. We would do this until the traffic volume increased to the point where it’s more efficient to move to an all-digital net for traffic.

 

Back to the drawing board!

73,

Dave Colter WA1ZCN

ASEC, Training - NH-ARES

www.nh-ares.org

Hamshack Hotline: Ext. 4806

SHARES Voice: NNA1DC

 

 

 

 

Re: MFSK16 bandwidth?

Michael WA7SKG
 

We have a number of groups in our area who mix voice and digital on the same frequency, usually 2 meters. They typically use SSTV and MT63, though some use Olivia. I believe they use flamp to assist in message processing. In the exercises, the mix works well as the message traffic serves accurate and efficient record traffic for shelter status, weather, etc. while SSTV is very useful for damage assessment.

In the non-ham world, this was actually quite common. Not only with MARS, SHARES, etc. but in the commercial arena. There were a few business that used to use HF between their facilities that I would occasionally monitor for fun. They would make voice contact, then send data of some type. Of course now everything is satellite and Internet, and HF sees very little use. One of the companies I used to listen to had a big tri-band beam and several dipoles on their roof, all gone now.

Michael WA7SKG


Dave Colter wrote on 3/29/20 5:24 AM:

Thanks to all who answered. I’m surprised my own search didn’t pick up the emissions chart John posted. Gotta love Google ads clogging up search results. After looking at the charts on w1hkj.com,  and the Part 97 definition of image modes, I found that none of the modes in Fldigi qualify as image modes. Oh well.
The reason for the question had to do with nets. On SHARES nets (government frequencies) we are able to send digital messages on the voice net frequency (we use MT63-1K-L), which improves the efficiency of the net. There is no repeated moving off to a new frequency, retuning, etc.. The thought is that if a legal “image” mode can effectively send forms and documents, just like a fax machine, we can move the messages in-net as long as it’s low volume. We would do this until the traffic volume increased to the point where it’s more efficient to move to an all-digital net for traffic.
Back to the drawing board!
73,
Dave Colter WA1ZCN
ASEC, Training - NH-ARES
www.nh-ares.org <http://www.nh-ares.org/>
Hamshack Hotline: Ext. 4806
SHARES Voice: NNA1DC

Re: MFSK16 bandwidth?

Chris E.
 

You could do flamp to xfer the files I would think but I don't have a lot of experience as to the best modes to use with it.


It has checksums to verify complete transfer.

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 8:24 AM Dave Colter <dbcolter@...> wrote:

Thanks to all who answered. I’m surprised my own search didn’t pick up the emissions chart John posted. Gotta love Google ads clogging up search results. After looking at the charts on w1hkj.com,  and the Part 97 definition of image modes, I found that none of the modes in Fldigi qualify as image modes. Oh well.

 

The reason for the question had to do with nets. On SHARES nets (government frequencies) we are able to send digital messages on the voice net frequency (we use MT63-1K-L), which improves the efficiency of the net. There is no repeated moving off to a new frequency, retuning, etc.. The thought is that if a legal “image” mode can effectively send forms and documents, just like a fax machine, we can move the messages in-net as long as it’s low volume. We would do this until the traffic volume increased to the point where it’s more efficient to move to an all-digital net for traffic.

 

Back to the drawing board!

73,

Dave Colter WA1ZCN

ASEC, Training - NH-ARES

www.nh-ares.org

Hamshack Hotline: Ext. 4806

SHARES Voice: NNA1DC

 

 

 

 



--
73  de Chris -- KC2RGW
Are you on DMR yet?
------------------------------------------------------------
˙dn ǝpıs ʇɥƃıɹ ɹoʇıuoɯ ɹnoʎ uɹnʇ
ǝsɐǝןd 'sıɥʇ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ ɟı

Re: MFSK16 bandwidth?

Dave Colter
 

Thanks to all who answered. I’m surprised my own search didn’t pick up the emissions chart John posted. Gotta love Google ads clogging up search results. After looking at the charts on w1hkj.com,  and the Part 97 definition of image modes, I found that none of the modes in Fldigi qualify as image modes. Oh well.

 

The reason for the question had to do with nets. On SHARES nets (government frequencies) we are able to send digital messages on the voice net frequency (we use MT63-1K-L), which improves the efficiency of the net. There is no repeated moving off to a new frequency, retuning, etc.. The thought is that if a legal “image” mode can effectively send forms and documents, just like a fax machine, we can move the messages in-net as long as it’s low volume. We would do this until the traffic volume increased to the point where it’s more efficient to move to an all-digital net for traffic.

 

Back to the drawing board!

73,

Dave Colter WA1ZCN

ASEC, Training - NH-ARES

www.nh-ares.org

Hamshack Hotline: Ext. 4806

SHARES Voice: NNA1DC

 

 

 

 

Re: MFSK16 bandwidth?

Chris E.
 

Thanks, yes did not compute that, had never seen it before.


On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 3:44 AM Bob Cameron <bob3bob3@...> wrote:

Chris/Dave/John

I don't know if this is relevant to your post, but be aware that MFSK image mode is not the same as data mode. There may be different bandwidths/rates involved. I stopped using it for images some time ago, finding THOR or IFKP gave a better quality image. That particular mode has a frame start tone well below the usual data bandwidth.

Cheers/73

Bob VK2YQA

On 29/3/20 11:20 am, Chris E. wrote:
I believe it is legal to use anywhere, but the sub-band areas for digital are almost desolate most of the time aside from the FT8 sprawl and PSK on 20m and a tiny bit on 40m.  There's so much space to use, putting it on phone segments will just get people going insane.

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:55 PM JOHN UNRATH <unrath@...> wrote:
Got this from the FLDIGI site ...




On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 5:47:47 PM MDT, Dave Colter <dbcolter@...> wrote:


Does anyone know what MFSK16’s precise bandwidth is? Or its official emissions designator? I’m wondering if it qualifies as an image emission under FCC rules, thus legal to use in the phone sub-bands.

73

Dave WA1ZCN



--



--
73  de Chris -- KC2RGW
Are you on DMR yet?
------------------------------------------------------------
˙dn ǝpıs ʇɥƃıɹ ɹoʇıuoɯ ɹnoʎ uɹnʇ
ǝsɐǝןd 'sıɥʇ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ ɟı

Re: MFSK16 bandwidth?

Bob Cameron
 

Chris/Dave/John

I don't know if this is relevant to your post, but be aware that MFSK image mode is not the same as data mode. There may be different bandwidths/rates involved. I stopped using it for images some time ago, finding THOR or IFKP gave a better quality image. That particular mode has a frame start tone well below the usual data bandwidth.

Cheers/73

Bob VK2YQA

On 29/3/20 11:20 am, Chris E. wrote:
I believe it is legal to use anywhere, but the sub-band areas for digital are almost desolate most of the time aside from the FT8 sprawl and PSK on 20m and a tiny bit on 40m.  There's so much space to use, putting it on phone segments will just get people going insane.

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:55 PM JOHN UNRATH <unrath@...> wrote:
Got this from the FLDIGI site ...




On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 5:47:47 PM MDT, Dave Colter <dbcolter@...> wrote:


Does anyone know what MFSK16’s precise bandwidth is? Or its official emissions designator? I’m wondering if it qualifies as an image emission under FCC rules, thus legal to use in the phone sub-bands.

73

Dave WA1ZCN



--

Re: fldigi 4.1.09.27 posted

Dave, KI7VLV
 

Roger that, sir. I have all that set, checked, and working in .08. No mode association button in .09.

In .09 the CW identifier will sound using the panes of Fldigi itself using macros (TX >|), but will not end with a CW ID when sending with flmsg, nor flamp.

Thank you so much for your hard work.

73, Dave

Re: MFSK16 bandwidth?

Chris E.
 

I believe it is legal to use anywhere, but the sub-band areas for digital are almost desolate most of the time aside from the FT8 sprawl and PSK on 20m and a tiny bit on 40m.  There's so much space to use, putting it on phone segments will just get people going insane.


On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:55 PM JOHN UNRATH <unrath@...> wrote:
Got this from the FLDIGI site ...
Inline image



On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 5:47:47 PM MDT, Dave Colter <dbcolter@...> wrote:


Does anyone know what MFSK16’s precise bandwidth is? Or its official emissions designator? I’m wondering if it qualifies as an image emission under FCC rules, thus legal to use in the phone sub-bands.

73

Dave WA1ZCN



--
73  de Chris -- KC2RGW
Are you on DMR yet?
------------------------------------------------------------
˙dn ǝpıs ʇɥƃıɹ ɹoʇıuoɯ ɹnoʎ uɹnʇ
ǝsɐǝןd 'sıɥʇ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ ɟı

Re: MFSK16 bandwidth?

JOHN UNRATH
 

Got this from the FLDIGI site ...
Inline image



On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 5:47:47 PM MDT, Dave Colter <dbcolter@...> wrote:


Does anyone know what MFSK16’s precise bandwidth is? Or its official emissions designator? I’m wondering if it qualifies as an image emission under FCC rules, thus legal to use in the phone sub-bands.

73

Dave WA1ZCN

MFSK16 bandwidth?

Dave Colter
 

Does anyone know what MFSK16’s precise bandwidth is? Or its official emissions designator? I’m wondering if it qualifies as an image emission under FCC rules, thus legal to use in the phone sub-bands.

73

Dave WA1ZCN

New alpha versions posted for fldigi and flrig

Dave
 

Re: fldigi 4.1.09.27 posted

Dave
 

I see you're asking about setting which modes be associated with the CW identifier.

I'll check the code base.

73, David, W1HKJ

On 3/28/20 2:41 PM, Dave wrote:

fldigi only transmits a station CW identification at the end of each transmission.  Enable that with the "Transmit callsign" check box on the IDs/CW panel.

A mode identifier can be transmitted as waterfall video text.  Look on the IDs/Video panel.

73, David, W1HKJ

On 3/28/20 2:16 PM, Dave, KI7VLV wrote:

Good day,

I was wondering why the CW ID modes button/functionality was removed from .09 under ID -> CW ?

Re: fldigi 4.1.09.27 posted

Dave
 

fldigi only transmits a station CW identification at the end of each transmission.  Enable that with the "Transmit callsign" check box on the IDs/CW panel.

A mode identifier can be transmitted as waterfall video text.  Look on the IDs/Video panel.

73, David, W1HKJ

On 3/28/20 2:16 PM, Dave, KI7VLV wrote:

Good day,

I was wondering why the CW ID modes button/functionality was removed from .09 under ID -> CW ?

Re: fldigi 4.1.09.27 posted

Dave, KI7VLV
 

Good day,

I was wondering why the CW ID modes button/functionality was removed from .09 under ID -> CW ?

fldigi waterfall inop/black #macos #flrig

Ted KK6CSO
 

I’m using flrig/fldigi (4.1.09) on my Mac laptop OS X 10.14.6.  I had trouble with the Waterfall not working/inop.  Completely black.  
Here’s why:  During the fldigi install process, I apparently did not “allow incoming" to the ports when prompted.  Just a habit...
 
To correct this, open System Preferences in the Dock.
Select the “Security and Privacy” pane.
     Select the “Privacy” tab.
          Then, in the left window, click on “Microphone” and in the right window under “Allow the apps below to access your microphone,” make sure fldigi is checked.  (You should not need to do a restart, but it never hurts). 
This will allow the signal from your interface unit (Yaesu SCU-17 in my case) to be displayed on the waterfall.  If needed, you can start with the values: -30 and 70 settings next to the” WF" tab in the lower left corner of the fldigi screen. 
 
Also, always make sure to, in order: 1) Radio-ON with USB cable plugged into your Mac from your interface  3)  Launch flrig (if that’s how you control fldigi) and then fldigi.
Now you should Open System Preferences again and select the “Sound” panel.  Make sure "USB Audio CODEC" is selected in both the Input and Output tabs.
 
Hope this helps someone.  I’m just figuring out all this as I go…
 
Ted
KK6CSO

Re: FLMsg/FLDigi Interface running on Ubuntu 19.10

Bart N5BLP
 

Ah, working with computers is such a never ending joy!

After I posted I shut everything down and went outside to do some yard work.  Couple hours later I fired everything up and tried again.  VOILA!  Everything works.
     FLMsg mode follows FLDigi.
     Autosend works.
     Message reception works.

My guess - and it's a stretch - is that after installation a reboot was required to get the xmlrpc address and port to work.

A word about "Transfer direct to executing flmsg".
     I've been using it that way with the windows versions for years and have never once had a problem.  And it's working now on Ubuntu.

Thanks for the prompt replies everyone.

Bart N5BLP

Re: FLMsg/FLDigi Interface running on Ubuntu 19.10

W. T. Jones
 

I'll second that!


73,
WT Jones
WN3LIF
ARRL Amateur Radio Emergency Service
wn3lif@... <---
Eastern PA Section Emergency Coordinator
http://www.w3luz.org
ares County
                Basic Cert epa


On 3/26/20 12:39 PM, K4IVE wrote:
Uncheck " Transfer direct to executing flmsg."
 
That function is a special case and causes more problems than it worth.
 
Kevin
K4IVE
 
 
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 10:37 AM
From: "Bart N5BLP via Groups.Io" <bartpearl@...>
To: nbems@groups.io
Subject: [nbems] FLMsg/FLDigi Interface running on Ubuntu 19.10
I've been running this stuff on Windows for years and have begun experimenting with ubuntu linux (version 19.10).

I've got FLDigi versioin 4.1.06 running just fine.

With FLMsg version 4.0.11, I'm having trouble getting it to interface properly with FLDigi.  Here's what I've got going on:
    In FLDigi, I have the NBEMS interface configured as follows (the same way I have it configured on my Windows system):
      NBEMS data file interface enabled. Open in message folder DISabled.
      Transfer direct to executing flmsg enabled.
      Open with flmsg and open in browser DISabled.
    In FLMsg, I have it configured to sync modem to FLDigi (also the same way I have it configured on my Windows system).  All other FLMsg configurations are default.

With the above configuration, the received message apparently never gets transferred to FLMsg.  (And yes, I do have it up and running).  Nothing shows up in the Received Messages window or in the main FLMsg window.  Going the other way, Autosend doesn't work.  Nothing goes out.  Also, changing the modem in FLDigi does NOT result in the modem being changed in FLMsg.

I then tried it with Open with flmsg enabled (in FLDigi) and the proper path specified.  With that configuration, a new iteration of FLMsg is started and the message is displayed.  But this way I wind up with multiple iterations running.  Also, going the other way Autosend still doesn't work and the modem still doesn't follow FLDigi.

Any help getting FLMsg and FLDigi to interface properly would be greatly appreciated.

Bart N5BLP

Re: FLMsg/FLDigi Interface running on Ubuntu 19.10

K4IVE
 

Uncheck " Transfer direct to executing flmsg."
 
That function is a special case and causes more problems than it worth.
 
Kevin
K4IVE

 
 
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 10:37 AM
From: "Bart N5BLP via Groups.Io" <bartpearl@...>
To: nbems@groups.io
Subject: [nbems] FLMsg/FLDigi Interface running on Ubuntu 19.10
I've been running this stuff on Windows for years and have begun experimenting with ubuntu linux (version 19.10).

I've got FLDigi versioin 4.1.06 running just fine.

With FLMsg version 4.0.11, I'm having trouble getting it to interface properly with FLDigi.  Here's what I've got going on:
    In FLDigi, I have the NBEMS interface configured as follows (the same way I have it configured on my Windows system):
      NBEMS data file interface enabled. Open in message folder DISabled.
      Transfer direct to executing flmsg enabled.
      Open with flmsg and open in browser DISabled.
    In FLMsg, I have it configured to sync modem to FLDigi (also the same way I have it configured on my Windows system).  All other FLMsg configurations are default.

With the above configuration, the received message apparently never gets transferred to FLMsg.  (And yes, I do have it up and running).  Nothing shows up in the Received Messages window or in the main FLMsg window.  Going the other way, Autosend doesn't work.  Nothing goes out.  Also, changing the modem in FLDigi does NOT result in the modem being changed in FLMsg.

I then tried it with Open with flmsg enabled (in FLDigi) and the proper path specified.  With that configuration, a new iteration of FLMsg is started and the message is displayed.  But this way I wind up with multiple iterations running.  Also, going the other way Autosend still doesn't work and the modem still doesn't follow FLDigi.

Any help getting FLMsg and FLDigi to interface properly would be greatly appreciated.

Bart N5BLP

Re: FLMsg/FLDigi Interface running on Ubuntu 19.10

Ron
 

Bart,

Here's a screen shot of my Fldigi, Misc, NBEMS Interface.



Open with flmsg has to be checked. I think you found that out when you said you checked in. So when you receive an Flmsg it will automatically open a new Flmsg if there are no errors or ask you if you want to open it if the checksum doesn't match. When you check Transfer direct to executing flmsg it won't automatically open but it will show you a list of messages that you can open. I don't like this because I've missed messages with errors and didn't know there were errors. I'd rather have every message open. Of course I have 2 monitors and plenty of desktop space :-)

I'm not sure why the Flmsg mode doesn't follow the Fldigi mode. Here's my Flmsg ARQ configuration.



With Sync modem to fldigi checked flmsg should follow fldigi mode changes.

73, Ron NY3J

On 3/26/20 11:37 AM, Bart N5BLP via Groups.Io wrote:
I've been running this stuff on Windows for years and have begun experimenting with ubuntu linux (version 19.10).

I've got FLDigi versioin 4.1.06 running just fine.

With FLMsg version 4.0.11, I'm having trouble getting it to interface properly with FLDigi.  Here's what I've got going on:
    In FLDigi, I have the NBEMS interface configured as follows (the same way I have it configured on my Windows system):
      NBEMS data file interface enabled. Open in message folder DISabled.
      Transfer direct to executing flmsg enabled.
      Open with flmsg and open in browser DISabled.
    In FLMsg, I have it configured to sync modem to FLDigi (also the same way I have it configured on my Windows system).  All other FLMsg configurations are default.

With the above configuration, the received message apparently never gets transferred to FLMsg.  (And yes, I do have it up and running).  Nothing shows up in the Received Messages window or in the main FLMsg window.  Going the other way, Autosend doesn't work.  Nothing goes out.  Also, changing the modem in FLDigi does NOT result in the modem being changed in FLMsg.

I then tried it with Open with flmsg enabled (in FLDigi) and the proper path specified.  With that configuration, a new iteration of FLMsg is started and the message is displayed.  But this way I wind up with multiple iterations running.  Also, going the other way Autosend still doesn't work and the modem still doesn't follow FLDigi.

Any help getting FLMsg and FLDigi to interface properly would be greatly appreciated.

Bart N5BLP