Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing


Jerry Gaffke
 

I have a "classic" nanoVNA from Hugen, splash screen just
says "gen111.taobao.com", powers up with four traces.
Has been quite useful as it was shipped.

I plan to load Hugen's current nanoVNA-H firmware:
https://github.com/hugen79/NanoVNA-H
and then use nanovna-saver on an Ubuntu box:
https://github.com/NanoVNA-Saver/nanovna-saver

Lots of current discussion in the forum about the highly regarded
work of DiSlord and OneOfEleven, should I consider moving to that instead?
Perhaps some other firmware and (hopefully linux friendly) host software?
Here's Oristo's list of the various firmware options as of 10/2019:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/message/5949
https://oristopo.github.io/nVhelp/html/firmware.htm
But that doesn't fully describe things, and is badly out of date.

I haven't had time these last 12 months to follow along in the forum.
The nanoVNA universe is expanding rapidly, it's awfully confusing.
Unless you already know pretty much everything, the forum wiki
creates more questions than it answers:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki
For example, exactly what are the differences between the edy555 nanoVNA,
the Hugen nanoVNA, the Hugen nanoVNA-H, and the Hugen nanoVNA-H4?
Here's a start, the wiki should have this and much more:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/65362239

Wiki also needs information for the new user who has just unboxed a nanoVNA.
I was totally stumped last year till I found this:
https://hexandflex.com/2019/08/31/getting-started-with-the-nanovna-part-1/
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/65362239
The current wiki is not any better in that regard.

Here's a very old thread, at least some of which had to do with creating
a tutorial to get the new user going:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/34589622
I'm still planning to write a tutorial on complex impedances,
aimed at the ham with with an understanding of little more than
Ohms Law and perhaps SWR readings.

Jerry, KE7ER


Oristo
 

H Jerry -

Thanks for taking time to provide actionable feedback.
As it happens, I mostly stopped making Wiki updates
when I stopped downloading firmware updates.

Unless you already know pretty much everything, the forum wiki
creates more questions than it answers:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki
.. so, it should be deleted or pruned, to avoid wasting folks' time?

For example, exactly what are the differences between the edy555 nanoVNA,
the Hugen nanoVNA, the Hugen nanoVNA-H, and the Hugen nanoVNA-H4?
Owning only an early worst clone, >>I<< am not in a position to make definitive comparisons,
beyond https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki#Hardware-versions

Here's a start, the wiki should have this and much more:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/65362239
Not sure what part of that nanoVNA-Q discussion wants adding to the Wiki,
but you are more than welcome to edit the Wiki, based on your experience.

Wiki also needs information for the new user who has just unboxed a nanoVNA.
I was totally stumped last year till I found this:
https://hexandflex.com/2019/08/31/getting-started-with-the-nanovna-part-1/
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/65362239
The current wiki is not any better in that regard.
My efforts, at least, were not intended to replace work such as that at hexandflex.com,
which are in fact linked in the Wiki under User Guides.
Again, if updates are wanted based on your experience, please feel free.
I think that every group member has edit permission.

Here's a very old thread, at least some of which had to do with creating
a tutorial to get the new user going:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/34589622
Despite being implicated in that thread, I am unsure how to refactor it
to a new user tutorial that would be an improvement over those listed in User Guides:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki/12475
and Application Notes:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki/13116

Lots of current discussion in the forum about the highly regarded
work of DiSlord and OneOfEleven, should I consider moving to that instead?
Only my opinion, but without access to source code
and structured testing of those beta firmwares,
I do not recommend them for new users
unless they provide some needed function[s] unavailable from Hugen and edy555 releases.


Christos SV1EIA
 

If I'm not mistaken, I think that the best and most recent firmware for the -H is the one that resides in edy555's repository latest release.
https://github.com/ttrftech/NanoVNA/releases


Jerry Gaffke
 

Thanks for the response.
A few more comments:

Not sure what part of that nanoVNA-Q discussion wants adding to the Wiki,
but you are more than welcome to edit the Wiki, based on your experience.
Maybe this part, with appropriate editing and updating:
I've had my head in the sand for a year, no idea what's going on these days.

######################################
hwalker12/04/19 #7822 On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 06:47 AM, Larry Rothman wrote:
The H version has slight hardware mods but both versions are essentially
identical (except some clones are crap).
Slight mods include better RF shields, onboard v+ filtering, fixed USB-C
interface resistors. Nothing spectacular.
==================================================================================
The NanoVNA-H version also comes in an ABS plastic case that you would have to pay about an additional USA $10 for as an add-on to the Nano-VNA. It has the diode already installed for utilizing the battery voltage icon. The firmware is 0.2.3.2 which is already updated to extend operation to 1500 MHz
########################################


.. so, it should be deleted or pruned, to avoid wasting folks' time?
I'm not advocating the dumbing down of the wiki, but it should
be organized into something that's vaguely comprehensible for a beginner.
Perhaps there should be a quick-start guide for new owners.

And given all the hardware choices out there these days, there should
be a comprehensive description of each, specs, differences, firmware
suggestions, suitable host software, ...

The problem is, those in the forum who know these things have
no interest in updating the wiki, they have moved on to more interesting stuff.
And certainly no interest in making it understandable to the beginner.

Jerry, KE7ER




On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 01:29 PM, Oristo wrote:


H Jerry -

Thanks for taking time to provide actionable feedback.
As it happens, I mostly stopped making Wiki updates
when I stopped downloading firmware updates.


Unless you already know pretty much everything, the forum wiki
creates more questions than it answers:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki
.. so, it should be deleted or pruned, to avoid wasting folks' time?


For example, exactly what are the differences between the edy555 nanoVNA,
the Hugen nanoVNA, the Hugen nanoVNA-H, and the Hugen nanoVNA-H4?
Owning only an early worst clone, >>I<< am not in a position to make
definitive comparisons,
beyond https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki#Hardware-versions


Here's a start, the wiki should have this and much more:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/65362239
Not sure what part of that nanoVNA-Q discussion wants adding to the Wiki,
but you are more than welcome to edit the Wiki, based on your experience.


Wiki also needs information for the new user who has just unboxed a
nanoVNA.
I was totally stumped last year till I found this:
https://hexandflex.com/2019/08/31/getting-started-with-the-nanovna-part-1/

https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/65362239
The current wiki is not any better in that regard.
My efforts, at least, were not intended to replace work such as that at
hexandflex.com,
which are in fact linked in the Wiki under User Guides.
Again, if updates are wanted based on your experience, please feel free.
I think that every group member has edit permission.


Here's a very old thread, at least some of which had to do with creating
a tutorial to get the new user going:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/34589622
Despite being implicated in that thread, I am unsure how to refactor it
to a new user tutorial that would be an improvement over those listed in User
Guides:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki/12475
and Application Notes:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki/13116


Lots of current discussion in the forum about the highly regarded
work of DiSlord and OneOfEleven, should I consider moving to that instead?
Only my opinion, but without access to source code
and structured testing of those beta firmwares,
I do not recommend them for new users
unless they provide some needed function[s] unavailable from Hugen and edy555
releases.


Jerry Gaffke
 

Christos,

Thanks for that comment.

I had seen the trftech firmware, but the photo at the top showing edy555's kit
made me think it might not be appropriate for Hugen's version.

Looking further, there's this toward the bottom of https://github.com/ttrftech/NanoVNA
Authorized Distributor Nooelec Switch Science(ja) NanoVNA-H NanoVNA-H4
Credit @edy555
Contributors @hugen79 @cho45 @DiSlord

Following the distributor links, it appears to be Hugen's adjustment to the design, including the -H4.
I had thought the nanoVNA-H4 took slightly different firmware to deal with the larger display,
is that not the case?

Good to see Hugen, cho45 and DiSlord all listed as contributors.


Questions:

1) What differences to expect between this code: https://github.com/ttrftech/NanoVNA/releases
and Hugen's code: https://github.com/hugen79/NanoVNA-H

2): What different flavors of hardware can the above firmware choices work on?


Well, I guess I'll just try burning in the ttrftech code that Christos pointed me to.
At worst, I get a $50 education in what not to do.

Jerry, KE7ER

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 04:22 PM, Christos SV1EIA wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, I think that the best and most recent firmware for the -H
is the one that resides in edy555's repository latest release.
https://github.com/ttrftech/NanoVNA/releases


Larry Rothman
 

Jerry,    
There are links to at least 2 quick start guides in the user guide section of the Wiki, written by forum members.    
One of the problems is users sometimes just want answers without the footwork. I created a forum search tips document that is the very first item in the Wiki, but many users don't (won't?) read it.   
I have personally used the groups.io search function to find information in our forum and it works quite well as long as use it properly, hence the quick tips doc. 

As Oristo mentioned, there is nothing stopping ANY forum member from making edits to the Wiki page. I have mentioned this many times but no one wants to other than a couple of us early members. 
So? Decide on what you think needs to be changed and how. Then, create a hard copy and transfer to the Wiki via the edit function at the very bottom of the page. Keep it simple and to the point. 
... Larry


On Sat, 8 Aug 2020 at 8:25 PM, Jerry Gaffke via groups.io<jgaffke=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote: Thanks for the response.
A few more comments:

Not sure what part of that nanoVNA-Q discussion wants adding to the Wiki,
but you are more than welcome to edit the Wiki, based on your experience.
Maybe this part, with appropriate editing and updating:
I've had my head in the sand for a year, no idea what's going on these days.

######################################
hwalker12/04/19  #7822      On Wed, Dec  4, 2019 at 06:47 AM, Larry Rothman wrote:
The H version has slight hardware mods but both versions are essentially
identical (except some clones are crap).
Slight mods include better RF shields, onboard v+ filtering, fixed USB-C
interface resistors.  Nothing spectacular.
==================================================================================
The NanoVNA-H version also comes in an ABS plastic case that you would have to pay about an additional USA $10 for as an add-on to the Nano-VNA.  It has the diode already installed for utilizing the battery voltage icon.  The firmware is 0.2.3.2 which is already updated to extend operation to 1500 MHz
########################################


.. so, it should be deleted or pruned, to avoid wasting folks' time?
I'm not advocating the dumbing down of the wiki, but it should
be organized into something that's vaguely comprehensible for a beginner.
Perhaps there should be a quick-start guide for new owners.

And given all the hardware choices out there these days, there should
be a comprehensive description of each, specs, differences, firmware
suggestions, suitable host software, ...

The problem is, those in the forum who know these things have
no interest in updating the wiki, they have moved on to more interesting stuff.
And certainly no interest in making it understandable to the beginner.

Jerry, KE7ER




On Sat, Aug  8, 2020 at 01:29 PM, Oristo wrote:


H Jerry -

Thanks for taking time to provide actionable feedback.
As it happens, I mostly stopped making Wiki updates
when I stopped downloading firmware updates.


Unless you already know pretty much everything, the forum wiki
creates more questions than it answers:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki
.. so, it should be deleted or pruned, to avoid wasting folks' time?


For example, exactly what are the differences between the edy555 nanoVNA,
the Hugen nanoVNA, the Hugen nanoVNA-H, and the Hugen nanoVNA-H4?
Owning only an early worst clone, >>I<< am not in a position to make
definitive comparisons,
beyond https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki#Hardware-versions


Here's a start, the wiki should have this and much more:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/65362239
Not sure what part of that nanoVNA-Q discussion wants adding to the Wiki,
but you are more than welcome to edit the Wiki, based on your experience.


Wiki also needs information for the new user who has just unboxed a
nanoVNA.
I was totally stumped last year till I found this:
https://hexandflex.com/2019/08/31/getting-started-with-the-nanovna-part-1/

https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/65362239
The current wiki is not any better in that regard.
My efforts, at least, were not intended to replace work such as that at
hexandflex.com,
which are in fact linked in the Wiki under User Guides.
Again, if updates are wanted based on your experience, please feel free.
I think that every group member has edit permission.


Here's a very old thread, at least some of which had to do with creating
a tutorial to get the new user going:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/34589622
Despite being implicated in that thread, I am unsure how to refactor it
to a new user tutorial that would be an improvement over those listed in User
Guides:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki/12475
and Application Notes:
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki/13116


Lots of current discussion in the forum about the highly regarded
work of DiSlord and OneOfEleven, should I consider moving to that instead?
Only my opinion, but without access to source code
and structured testing of those beta firmwares,
I do not recommend them for new users
unless they provide some needed function[s] unavailable from Hugen and edy555
releases.


Larry Rothman
 

Jerry,
The original Nanovna from last year and the H version are all essentially identical and can use any Nanovna or Nanovna-H firmware from ttrftech, Hugen or DiSlord. 
The H4 has different LCD drivers and memory layout so H4 FW will only run on H4 hardware. 
You can't brick the H or H4 and after the first couple of times flashing, it becomes a simple excersise. 
... Larry



On Sat, 8 Aug 2020 at 9:56 PM, Jerry Gaffke via groups.io<jgaffke=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote: Christos,

Thanks for that comment.

I had seen the trftech firmware, but the photo at the top showing edy555's kit
made me think it might not be appropriate for Hugen's version.

Looking further, there's this toward the bottom of  https://github.com/ttrftech/NanoVNA  
  Authorized Distributor  Nooelec    Switch Science(ja) NanoVNA-H NanoVNA-H4
  Credit  @edy555
  Contributors  @hugen79  @cho45  @DiSlord

Following the distributor links, it appears to be Hugen's adjustment to the design, including the -H4.
I had thought the nanoVNA-H4 took slightly different firmware to deal with the larger display,
is that not the case?

Good to see Hugen, cho45 and DiSlord all listed as contributors.


Questions:

1)  What differences to expect between this code:  https://github.com/ttrftech/NanoVNA/releases
and Hugen's code:    https://github.com/hugen79/NanoVNA-H

2):  What different flavors of hardware can the above firmware choices work on?


Well, I guess I'll just try burning in the ttrftech code that Christos pointed me to.
At worst, I get a $50 education in what not to do.

Jerry, KE7ER

On Sat, Aug  8, 2020 at 04:22 PM, Christos SV1EIA wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, I think that the best and most recent firmware for the -H
is the one that resides in edy555's repository latest release.
https://github.com/ttrftech/NanoVNA/releases


Jim Lux
 

On 8/8/20 7:11 PM, Larry Rothman wrote:
Jerry,
There are links to at least 2 quick start guides in the user guide section of the Wiki, written by forum members.
One of the problems is users sometimes just want answers without the footwork. I created a forum search tips document that is the very first item in the Wiki, but many users don't (won't?) read it.
to be honest, most search functions sprinkled here and there across the internet are just plain horrible. And while reading a search tips can help, one doesn't really want to search each website or wiki in its own special way.

So that's why users don't/won't read it -


I have personally used the groups.io search function to find information in our forum and it works quite well as long as use it properly, hence the quick tips doc.
Yes, but see above - that's reminiscent of the iPhone 4 - you're holding it wrong, if you short the antenna feedpoint with your hand.

This is NOT to say that the tips aren't valid (they are) or that they don't work (they do) - it's just that user behavior has been conditioned that search functions are horrible, and search tips are either horrible or so peculiar to that particular website that it's not worth even looking.

My curse is on lameness of inter/intranet sites in general. And, by this, I include the intranet search where I work. - Searching for, say, LNA (something we do work with) will turn up EVERY document that has that in it, including "Purchase order tracking list May 2009" where some poor soul ordered an LNA. (as well as June, July, August, and then the Received orders list, and then probably, a bunch of "invoices received" documents, and on and on.

So users are justifiably leery of "search the archives"

It is MUCH better to provide roadmaps built into the wiki content (but that is significantly more difficult, and is all about "curation" - a thankless task, but valuable). One of the virtues of the web (or a Wiki) is that it doesn't force a single "view" of navigation.



As Oristo mentioned, there is nothing stopping ANY forum member from making edits to the Wiki page. I have mentioned this many times but no one wants to other than a couple of us early members.
Again, you're fighting against an internet phenomenon..
a) there's a bit of imposter syndrome - an individual thinks "I'm not worthy" to contribute and is shy about leaping in. (the same thing happens with git repos, by the way)
b) there are trolls and evil people who beat up on people making changes in pages they consider special or their own property. (Wikipedia has this phenomenon...)

Someone who dips a toe in, and then gets flamed because they didn't use exactly the right form, or the description is a bit clunky, or they wore the wrong color socks that day. A few experiences like that and you say "I'm never going to do that again".

Again, clearly not the fault here in this forum or wiki, but just how life is.

What works?

Individual mentoring - (and Larry is doing this a bit with this email) - Encourage someone to contribute, offer to help write the entry, let them enter it, check it, say "well done". And then if something "bad" happens (no matter how many trolls get beaten up by the biggest billy goat, there's an infinity of trolls - measureless to man, to rip off Coleridge), the mentor can stand up for the new contributor.

In my experience the best mailing lists and forums are ones where "google is your friend" and you can just google your question with the site:example.com in the search. Google has MUCH better search engines and structuring than anyone is going to implement on their own, or with some commercial product.



So? Decide on what you think needs to be changed and how. Then, create a hard copy and transfer to the Wiki via the edit function at the very bottom of the page. Keep it simple and to the point.
... Larry


Jerry Gaffke
 

Larry,

From the wiki homepage, I can click on "Documentation", then "Tutorials",
at which point I see:

######################################
nanoVNA User Guide 2019-07-11 (PDF) (original guide by hugen)
Cho45's NanoVNA User Guide (PDF formatted for printing - updated monthly)
Another great user guide written by Gyula Molna
Webpage is in Hungarian but has a built-in translation feature at the top of the page.
http://ha3hz.hu/hu/home/top-nav/12-seged-berendezesek/15-nanovna
Calibration steps, briefly (or, refer to other user guides here)
Firmware Help
from theory to practice! - Luc ON7DQ V2.01 February 2020 UBA Section OST presentation
Getting Started by Gunthard-Kraus, DG8GB
Forum thread discussing the User Guide
Updated English & German User Guides (PDF)
Getting Started with NanoVNA (Aug 31, 2019) by HexAndFlex
Setup and Calibration
Configuring Traces, Channels and Formats
VNA Saver – PC Software
Guide to the NanoVNA - Kindle Edition $2.99 @ Amazon
NanoVNA Introduction PowerPoint PDF by Doug Hart, AA3S
Rudolf Reuter's user guide - very good practical examples
https://www.rudiswiki.de/wiki9/nanoVNA
Touchscreen menu interactive map diagram
for original firmware
for Sep - Oct 17 firmware
for recent firmware
NanoVNA-H4 PDF by ON7BA 27 Feb 2020
Touch Screen Calibration procedure
Tips for New Users (Oct 9, 2019 PDF) by mike watts
USB Shell Commands better: PDF formatted for printing
VNA Tutorial - MegiQ videos (3 parts)
######################################

That's a bit overwhelming for a new user wanting to measure
the SWR of an antenna. I doubt any of it would be comprehensible
to somebody who didn't yet know what a complex impedance is.

I first tried Hugen's guide and cho45's guide when I got my nanoVNA.
Neither one got me very far.
I simply couldn't figure out the standalone GUI.

Yes, HexAndFlex is in there, good. That's what got me going.
But that would be awfully hard for a new user to stumble upon in the wiki.

Gunthard-Kraus's "Getting Started" is also listed, went up long after I got my nanoVNA.
Looks like it has a lot of good information, I intend to check it out thoroughly.
But not exactly a "quick start".

There are several other tutorials in there now that should be worth investigating.
But really, it is simply overwhelming.
Perhaps we could create a guide to the user guides?
Or perhaps settle on one good beginner's guide, put it at the top of the wiki?

I assume most of them are aimed at the nanoVNA-H and friends.
The new wealth of variants may require a reorganization of the wiki.
Hopefully the standalone menu structure is at least somewhat similar on all of them,
but that seems doubtful.


As Oristo mentioned, there is nothing stopping ANY forum member from making edits to the Wiki page.
That's good and bad.
You might have somebody like me whacking at it.
Somebody who thinks the code at https://github.com/ttrftech/NanoVNA/releases
is only suitable for the edy555 kit.

I have personally used the groups.io search function to find information in
our forum and it works quite well as long as use it properly, hence the quick
tips doc.
I can generally be successful searching for stuff here.
But reading the forum posts and wiki contents can be a challenge
if you haven't been following the discussion for a few months.
Even if you sort of know what you are doing.

Jerry, KE7ER




On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 07:11 PM, Larry Rothman wrote:


Jerry,
There are links to at least 2 quick start guides in the user guide section of
the Wiki, written by forum members.
One of the problems is users sometimes just want answers without the footwork.
I created a forum search tips document that is the very first item in the
Wiki, but many users don't (won't?) read it.
I have personally used the groups.io search function to find information in
our forum and it works quite well as long as use it properly, hence the quick
tips doc.

As Oristo mentioned, there is nothing stopping ANY forum member from making
edits to the Wiki page. I have mentioned this many times but no one wants to
other than a couple of us early members.
So? Decide on what you think needs to be changed and how. Then, create a hard
copy and transfer to the Wiki via the edit function at the very bottom of the
page. Keep it simple and to the point.
... Larry


 

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 07:17 PM, Larry Rothman wrote:


Questions:

1)  What differences to expect between this code:
https://github.com/ttrftech/NanoVNA/releases
and Hugen's code: https://github.com/hugen79/NanoVNA-H

2):  What different flavors of hardware can the above firmware choices work
on?
Last Edy555 code v0.8
Hugen use v0.6 add some mods and this all.
In all cases v0.8 from edy555 better (added a lot of fixes from v0.6)

This all for NanoVNA or NanoVNA-H.

For H4, only Hugen provide firmware (it also based on v0.6)

PS just for info
You can found on forum my firmwares for H and H4 v0.9.3.4 vs SD card support
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/nanovna_firmvare_compiled_by/73181877
And no SD card last stable 0.8.4.5
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/message/13054


Jerry Gaffke
 

Excellent, thank you!
Jerry, KE7ER

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 09:45 PM, DiSlord wrote:


ast Edy555 code v0.8
Hugen use v0.6 add some mods and this all.
In all cases v0.8 from edy555 better (added a lot of fixes from v0.6)

This all for NanoVNA or NanoVNA-H.

For H4, only Hugen provide firmware (it also based on v0.6)

PS just for info
You can found on forum my firmwares for H and H4 v0.9.3.4 vs SD card support
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/nanovna_firmvare_compiled_by/73181877
And no SD card last stable 0.8.4.5
https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/message/13054


Oristo
 

Hi Jerry -

There are several other tutorials in there now that should be worth investigating.
But really, it is simply overwhelming.
Perhaps we could create a guide to the user guides?
Or perhaps settle on one good beginner's guide, put it at the top of the wiki?
Those suggestions have merit. Here are some considerations:
* works here are by volunteers
- most submit their own work, rather than collaborate to make one better,
much less authoritative. (However, a recently cited "firmware for idiots" link
is to GitHub, which supports such collaborations, AKA "pull requests"..)
- external references may move or disappear at providers' whim
(e.g. Google Sites is currently forcing a migration that may disappear some)
* while I at least skim material for validity before adding Wiki links,
my perspective and VNA workflows are idiosyncratic,
so inappropriate for rating or ranking introductory guides.

I assume most of them are aimed at the nanoVNA-H and friends.
My perspective is that >>this group<< is for NanoVNA-H, NanoVNA-H4,
Hugen's first-generation NanoVNA and early clones.
At least, my references to other VNAs in Wiki
are intended to simply help distinguish among those "supported"
and others that trade on that name by edy555.
Other VNAs have (or at least should have) other support/affinity groups...

The new wealth of variants may require a reorganization of the wiki.
I can imagine NOBODY motivated to manage consolidated introductory
information for incompatible platforms which essentially share just nominal function
and partial names promulgated by a dynamic cast of characters.

Perhaps a Main Wiki page could simply identify and group supported vs unsupported VNAs,
then a second page could enumerate only most popular (by vote?) tutorial and introductory content
for supported models
a third page of alternative user guides for supported models,
another page pointing elsewhere for other VNAs and related devices,
then remaining pages (as now) for mods, application notes, etc.

Hopefully the standalone menu structure is at least somewhat similar on all of
them, but that seems doubtful.
I can only attest to menu structures for nanoVNA firmware menus mapped up to
December 2019. However, since Microsoft broke IBM's paradigm of extensively
validated backward compatibility in mid 1980s by moving fast and breaking things,
programmers often arbitrarily rearrange and rename functions, baffling existing users.
Bill Gates called that "embrace and extend"..
FWIW, sorting some nanoVNA menu interactions involved reading source code..

As Oristo mentioned, there is nothing stopping ANY forum member from
making edits to the Wiki page.
That's good and bad.
You might have somebody like me whacking at it.
FWIW, at least Larry and I have corrected wrong or unclear Wiki entries.
Groups.io Wiki includes a version comparison facility for managing changes.

Somebody who thinks the code at https://github.com/ttrftech/NanoVNA/releases
is only suitable for the edy555 kit.
So far as I know, no true edy555 kit is generally available;
whether current edy555 firmware works on his original design
is unknown to me.


Oristo
 

Guide to the NanoVNA - Kindle Edition $2.99 @ Amazon
Is this being updated? Should it be delisted?


afreeangel@...
 

There are available source code repositories in github with the latest H4 firmware.


Dave Daniel
 

Well, who is Christopher Schwartz? Is he on this list?

My initial reaction is that it (the ebook) is a plagiarism of the information on our Wiki and should thus be didallowed.

Does anyone on this list want to own up to publishing this? Please PM me if so.

DaveD

On Aug 9, 2020, at 06:25, Oristo <ormpoa@gmail.com> wrote:

Guide to the NanoVNA - Kindle Edition $2.99 @ Amazon
Is this being updated? Should it be delisted?



Rich NE1EE
 

On 2020-08-08 20:29:-0700, Jerry Gaffke via groups.io wrote:
I can generally be successful searching for stuff here.
But reading the forum posts and wiki contents can be a challenge
if you haven't been following the discussion for a few months.
Even if you sort of know what you are doing.

Jerry, KE7ER
My impression from trying to find information and follow discussions is that
a) the process is hampered by folks hijacking threads. the first time that happens, someone ought to say "stop", "post new thread", but instead, the thread goes crashing on

b) "the thread crashing on" is just another symptom of the mad dash that I see everywhere...it doesn't matter the subject or the technology. Example: I was at a dinner last year where an engineer with a hearing problem groused about his $14K USD hearing aids. Seems that they don't work very well. I asked what his audiologist said about that. He said that he had been to 3, and all 3 didn't know the products or how to use them, but were great at extolling how great the new technology is. I see that as similar to what happened to the NanoVNAs. My impression is that there is a mad dash to upgrade and enhance at some breakneck pace, which developers are happy to accommodate because they like to, well, develop. But who actually gets all that to the users...?

c) if you are in the moment, and following all the threads...that is, if your life is wrapped up in NanoVNAs, then you can keep track of the pieces...but if you come to the party late, and someone says read the Wiki and read the forum, you are faced with a daunting task

d) I offered to help write docs and update the Wiki, early on...I asked for help and input from the developers...after all, who knows better than they what is happening? The reply was that I should just pick up a device and start using the desktop software, and then write up what I "discover"...I passed...after all, that is exactly what I was trying to avoid...so my VNAs (yup, plural) sit idly for the most part.

I used to run my own engineering company...we did a variety of applications, from some in nuclear operations, to some that ran trains in some very complicated situations (special purpose trains, run by a net work of a dozen computers). At one point, I happened to be on site when an upgrade was in progress. The train operators suggested that I might want to drive the train...literally. Did I say NO...I did NOT! (I got to blow the horn ;-) Their reasoning was that our company would be more familiar with what was /supposed/ to happen, and if something went amiss, we'd be in a better position to understand what that was.

I don't pretend to know what is under the hood of NanoVNAs...but I do have the software engineering and programming savvy to enjoin a discussion with developers.

There was another post in this thread (I think) that addressed collaboration on the Wiki. I might say collab in general. The person posting had a valid point, I opine, that folks would write something original and add it to the Wiki, rather than collab with others to get a better product. That's what my last several paragraphs addressed.

We would not be having all this discussion if there were a greater sense of collab. I encourage those who remain to develop a greater sense of teamwork, even if it means slowing down the rate of releases.



--
72/73 de Rich NE1EE
On the banks of the Piscataqua


DougVL
 

I too found the Wiki complex and confusing, even back in October, 2019 when it was MUCH smaller. And I think it's amazing (and terrific) that it has grown so much. This is a very busy, helpful and informative discussion group. But there's the key - - it's a "discussion" group. Not an 'educational' one, although that is certainly a side effect.

And once you do get familiar with the information, the group and the device, there's a lot less motivation to do something about organizing the Wiki.

Something that might help you and other future users is to document for yourself what you do find that's useful, along with where you found it. Sort of like 'taking notes' in a class. It could just be in a plain text file, added to when appropriate. Then, when you're pretty well (or at least somewhat) confident, post it. And add it to the Wiki. It could be updated as you learn even more. Just keep it organized and it could be a very helpful 'roadmap' to many other future users.

And as someone pointed out below, avoid steering a thread away from its original topic! More readers will notice your new topic than will ever see it buried in a large, old thread too.

Doug, K8RFT


Larry Rothman
 

I think a notation should be made in the Wiki as to its publication date, the model(s) it refers to and the highest version of firmware it relates to. 
It does cover examples of how to perform a number of common hamshack-related tests & measurements. 



On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 6:25 AM, Oristo<ormpoa@gmail.com> wrote: > Guide to the NanoVNA - Kindle Edition $2.99 @ Amazon

Is this being updated?  Should it be delisted?


Jerry Gaffke
 

I'll try to behave here, keeping threads on topic would make it easier to look for information later.
And keeping track of all this stuff is tough enough without wandering threads.

But that can be at odds with having a discussion, discussions tend to wander as related issues come up.
Two or three related issues later, and we're talking about something completely different,
with no distinct dividing line.

Those who know me from other forums may remember a time or two
when I told the thread police that we were having a discussion, and carried on.
In a forum with 7000 members, it is not always best to comply with the one member who complains.

When searching forums for a particular bit of information, I usually rely on key words in the discussion.
And if it was a discussion in which I took part, I include "KE7ER" in the key words.
That's usually the case for threads I am looking for, as those are the ones I remember most.

I doubt we will ever be able to count on posts to threads always staying on subject.
For example, the title of this thread is "Firmware choices, wiki is awfully confusing"

My yahoo email account currently has 33,000 bits of email in the inbox, over two decades worth,
no other folders. Pretty much the same system. My niece was horrified when she saw that.

Jerry, KE7ER


Rich wrote:
a) the process is hampered by folks hijacking threads. the first time that happens,
someone ought to say "stop", "post new thread", but instead, the thread goes crashing on
Doug wrote:
And as someone pointed out below, avoid steering a thread away from its
original topic! More readers will notice your new topic than will ever see it
buried in a large, old thread too.


Jerry Gaffke
 

I do write up my own notes as text files whenever trying to master
something complicated. Been using vi for that since the early 80's.

Will be taking such notes as I dig through the wiki and pertinent forum posts.
So the natural path here would be to do about as DougVL suggests.
Every plagiarized tidbit in my notes will get an author, date, and URL.
Should then be moderately easy to edit it for general consumption,
post that to the group for corrections and additions.
Then place it in the wiki.

Once in the wiki, other users are welcome to hack it.
But I will consider myself the owner, and occasionally do a diff against my backup.
If I don't agree with the hacks, I'll unhack it.

We'll see if I follow through on this.
Now 8 years into finishing out this off-grid strawbale house,
the water system is not fully winter proof,
the yaks will need hay for the winter and better fences,
canyon walls are full of weeds, internet link is dodgy, tractor needs work, ...
And hey, I'm retired! It's all a hobby!

Jerry Gaffke, KE7ER near Flora OR

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 05:44 AM, DougVL wrote:
Something that might help you and other future users is to document for
yourself what you do find that's useful, along with where you found it. Sort
of like 'taking notes' in a class. It could just be in a plain text file,
added to when appropriate. Then, when you're pretty well (or at least
somewhat) confident, post it. And add it to the Wiki. It could be updated as
you learn even more. Just keep it organized and it could be a very helpful
'roadmap' to many other future users.