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NanoVNA does not want to start -solved

Bob Albert
 

I have a similar problem.  When you find the answer, let me know.
I replaced the 5303 with another 5303 and it's better.  My second nano needs similar repair; it won't start up with the USB connected.  Once running, I can connect USB most of the time.  Occasionally it gratuitously shuts down, also.
Bob

On Sunday, January 26, 2020, 06:32:48 PM PST, slackmasterstan@... <slackmasterstan@...> wrote:

FYI, I just replaced my ip5303 with a ip5305 and did NOT resolve my power on problem.

slackmasterstan@...
 

FYI, I just replaced my ip5303 with a ip5305 and did NOT resolve my power on problem.

Herman De Dauw
 

Don't look too far. The chips can be found on Ebay. Search string: 10 PCS IP5305 SOP-8 IP 5305 IC CHIP
on1bes Herman

Larry Rothman
 

Yes, but now you created another problem for the rest of us: you didn't post the link where you purchased the new chips from 🙄.  
Thanks for playing around with this until you solved it.  
RegardsLarry



On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 5:42 PM, Herman De Dauw<on1bes@...> wrote: After almost half a year of using my NanoVNA that did not want to start with the on / off, an old problem has been solved. After replacing the IP5303 earlier, my NanoVNA still did not start (the IP5303 did not see the increased power when switching on). Now I have received a number of IP5305, and have placed one of them in the NanoVNA. After this procedure, the NanoVNA wanted to start up normally for the first time, and all functions of the IP5305 function normally. The device is now fully portable with battery. Problem solved.
on1bes Herman

Herman De Dauw
 

After almost half a year of using my NanoVNA that did not want to start with the on / off, an old problem has been solved. After replacing the IP5303 earlier, my NanoVNA still did not start (the IP5303 did not see the increased power when switching on). Now I have received a number of IP5305, and have placed one of them in the NanoVNA. After this procedure, the NanoVNA wanted to start up normally for the first time, and all functions of the IP5305 function normally. The device is now fully portable with battery. Problem solved.
on1bes Herman

Larry Rothman
 

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019, 2:44:23 p.m. GMT-4, Bob Albert via Groups.Io <bob91343=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Where to buy IP5303?

Bob Albert
 

Where to buy IP5303?

Herman De Dauw
 

Hi i found the IP5305 is the same as the IP5303, with one LED more. I can upload the PDF here and this one is in English !.

DMR
 
Edited

Mystic..... I put together a test board on the ip5306. It works for a long time at a current above 45mA. Do not forget that using ip5306, the charge current will be at the level of 1.2 amperes, taking into account the current loss in the usb cable, this will lead to an early bloating of the battery and its failure.
There is a suspicion of a partial breakdown of the smd capacitor.
Assemble a test, separate board using your ip5303, and other components in its bundle.
I’ll clarify, I indicated the current consumption between ip5303 and nano (~ 90-110mA).

Keep us informed, well, very interesting ;))

Herman De Dauw
 

To use the Nano, it is no problem that the IP5303 switches off after 35 seconds when switching off. For a battery pack with a low consumption device connected, that is something else.
The problem that I often hear is that the IP5303 does not switch on, with a consumption higher than 45 mA. I have already replaced and restored just about everything around the IP5303, but that doesn't help. The normal functions continue to work, only the start-up does not work.
The only solution is to start the IP5303 via the key pin 5 with a push button. This is only a partial solution, because after connecting the USB cable it no longer works.
After several days of measuring and testing, and 2x replacing an IP5303, I finally found a deviation. All measurements of the NanoVNA power consumption described here are actually wrong. You will not find any deviations.
However, if you are going to measure the power consumption of the IP5303 yourself, we will notice weird deviations.
The third day I planned to do only current measurements on the IP5306 and its components.
Like 'tinhead' suggested to place a resistor on C47, instead of a resistor I made a print with 4 lamps 6V / 60mA, and a 4-pole DIP switch.
This way I could switch the load per 60 mA on and off to observe the behavior of the IP5306.
Since the NanoVNA does not participate this time, the current must be measured at the 3.70V battery and not at the ON / OFF switch.
These prior measurements gave strange results:
Current measurement of the IP5303 in standby mode (32 sec): 2.70 mA
Current measurement of the NanoVNA, including the IP5303: 237mA!
Current measurement of the NanoVNA, minus the IP5303: 130mA.
Conclusion: the IP5303 has (too) high self-consumption.
I discovered that the IP5303 only worked well up to 222 mA. In addition, the IP5303 goes into a kind of protection mode, and switches off completely after about 10 seconds.
The following measurements are with my own load (lamps), without the Nano switched on.
With my external load I can therefore switch on 1,2,3 or 4 lamps.
1 lamp = 60 mA, 2 lamps = 120 mA, 3 lamps = 180 mA, 4 lamps = 240 mA.
With the standard inductor of 2.2 µH (1 µH also works, but the oscillator frequency is higher) and a load with:
1 lamp: current was 90.0 mA -> 30 mA too much
2 lights: current was 185 mA -> 65 mA too much!
3 lights: current was 276 mA -> 36 mA too much!
The load with 4 lamps did not want to start anymore.
This is really too much for the small Li-ion battery.
Strange is that the IP5303 with my own load did not fail, with the NanoVNA switched on it did fail.
So the ultimate consequence is that the NanoVNA does not want to start up, because it itself already needs 130 mA.
I did the same measurements again with a lab power supply connected instead of the battery, but the measurements were not much different.
The question is why the IP5303 does not meet its specifications.
There are probably some IPs that do not work well in some NanoVNAs.
Or some NanoVNAs have a slightly lower power consumption. I replaced the IP5303 twice, I was not lucky twice.
I'm still going to try with an IP5306, which could handle a slightly higher steam. But they still have to be ordered.

tinhead
 

the IP5306 (I2C Version) can be programmed to e.g. go to sleep after 8,16,32 and 64 seconds (8sec, 32sec modes has been reported by nanovna users).
It can be programmed as well to stay on. One can buy as well version, which is already pre-programmed for always on. I assume, IP5303 is not much different.

The always on IP5306 Information:

http://forum.m5stack.com/topic/62/ip5306-automatic-standby

Well, so all those working "bad clones" with IP5306 have probably IP5306_CK soldered.

Herman De Dauw
 

@tinhead
That is also my experience. The 10µF cap does not matter. It may be a 22µF or 10 or another. Oscillation It is still worling. Also the coil may be a 2.2µH or a 1.0µH like in some schematics.
Where have you get that info of "always on IP5303" ? In the datasheet of the IP5306 ? and where/what exact parameter ?
Will i order the IP5303 or the IP5306 ? I Already replace two IP5303, but is does not work. It wont start with a load of 50 ... 150mA. I should post later a rapport here.

tinhead
 

that "replace 10uF with 22uF to fix IP5303 issues" is a myth, except of course one got shitty caps in the first place. I got 2 other IP5303 and they behaves exactly same (on a test board). It might be, that there is "always on IP5303" version, like for IP5306, but the standard IP5303 will always turn off - after defined or preprogrammed timeout - once current consumption goes below 45mA. Maybe hugen79 can explain, why he decided to use IP5303.

QRP RX
 

NanoVNA power on current consumption statistics for 60 seconds measurement interval:

MIN: 175.33 mA
MAX: 193.89 mA
AVG: 183.19 mA

QRP RX
 

I have classic NanoVNA from hugen79 with blue leds. I got it with fully discharged battery. After charge it can works 2 hours from the battery.Power on works ok.The only issue that I found with the battery is that the led still glowing for 30 seconds after power off.

Just disassembled it and measured power consumption.

Power off state: 50-60 uA
Power on state: 170-190 mA
After power off, while led is still glowing: 1510 uA
After power off, when led is stops glow: 50-60 uA

Current consumption is not constant, it is changed with about 1-2 seconds interval. At power off state 30-40% of time current consumption is about 49-52 uA. After power off the led stops to glow after 33 seconds.

The chip is IP5303, inductor has marking 2R2.
The battery marking is: SD 602040 3.7V 450 mAh.

May be this information will help someone...

DMR
 

I conducted a small test with IP5303.
IP5303 does not work longer than 30 seconds with a load that consumes less than 65 milliamps. Nanovna consumes 90-110mA.
With such a current consumption, IP5303 should power the device for a long time, until the battery energy is depleted.
Test with the new IP5303, connect a 47-38 ohm resistor parallel to the capacitor C47.
If IP5303 will turn off at a load current of 100mA, then IP5303 is fake, or the elements in its bundle are faulty, although there are few of them.

Larry Rothman
 
Edited

Hi Herman,
That is really strange. However, your Nano is not lost -just buy a cheap power bank that puts out 5v and use that to power the Nano, which really runs from 5v, not 3.7v.
In fact, you can always buy a very inexpensive and small charger-inverter board from the likes of banggood for around $2.
Yes, I know it's a pain in the butt but at least you can keep using your unit.

These boards use the 54xx chip..
https://m.banggood.com/Geekcreit-D1-Mini-Single-Lithium-Battery-Charging-And-Battery-Boost-Shield-Board-p-1092773.html

https://m.banggood.com/5V-Lithium-Battery-Charger-Step-Up-Protection-Board-Boost-Power-Module-Power-Bank-Charger-Board-p-1357723.html

Note both boards use a 4R7 coil but the cheaper board uses a 33ohm in series with USB 5v but the more expensive board uses 2 - 1ohm in parallel for current limiting.
I wonder if these chips are sensitive to input current from USB and are being damaged somehow.
Try placing a 33ohm at the 5v input to the chip and see if that helps.

You might be able to transplant parts from one of these modules to the Nano.

Regards
Larry

Herman De Dauw
 

@Larry, Brian, DMR
In the meantime I have replaced the IP5303. Also the 10µF cap. But there is no improvement. The Nano still won't start on its battery.
The battery can be charged normally. I have placed the switch on pin 5 of the IP5303, so that I can start with the key-pin of the IP5303.
All proposals here do not improve. I also replaced the blue LED with a red one. A slightly increased load (+ 50 mA) with an additional LED or a resistor does not cause the IP5303 to start. All measured values ​​appear normal.
But after 2 days there is a new phenomenon: after starting the Nano (via the IP5303 pin), it drops out after 7-8 seconds! I can repeat this endlessly, but it is always the same. Also with a full battery, also connected with the USB cable!
This way the Nano is no longer usable. I have no idea where this is coming from. There is no timer in the IP5303 that causes this? I have compared different schemes from IP53xx to IP5306, but they are all the same. The only difference I can find is that the coil (2.2µH) sometimes has a different value.
What could partly help me is that someone would post a detail photo of the components around the IP5303. Other experiences are also welcome.

Herman De Dauw
 

Hi, i find out that the IP5305 is the same as the IP5303, with one LED less. I can upload the PDF data in English here.

Herman De Dauw
 

Placing a 20 - 100 ohm resistor has not brought a solution. The IP5303 will not start wiyh the SW1 switch.
Also, as a test with a 6V / 3W light bulb on the load pin 8, it will not start. Here the load must still be sufficient. With pin5 I can start the IP5303, and the light is on, but after the 45sec sleep time, restarting no longer works with the pwr switch. I will have to search for another solution. I am thinking of a larger C3 capacitor, so that when the SW1 is closed, there is a larger charge current for a while. I'm also going to look up more circuits with the IP5303.