Date   

Re: need a startup guide that describes the behavior of the LEDs on the side

Gary W9TD
 

One is the charge led that flashes while being charged and is steady when fully charged. The other flashes in step with the sweep when on
Gary
W9TD


Re: Measuring CMC and S21 readings

Dragan Milivojevic
 

Try the attached spreadsheet

On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 at 22:38, Federico - ik3umt <ik3umt@gmail.com> wrote:

That's what I'm trying to do with nanovna....
Which S21 values should i insert in Steve's spreadsheet ?
Which format conversion is needed ?

Federico
ik3umt






Re: Measuring CMC and S21 readings

Piero Tognolatti
 

Federico, I am running nanovna-saver-v0.2.0, that export .s2p file using the "RI" format (one column for the real part, another column for the imaginary part).   I see that Steve's  spreadsheet uses as input the "MA" format (Magnitude in dB and Angle in degs). Delay column is not used by Steve's formulas.

I don't know if more recent versions of nanovna-saver allow to save .s2p file in MA format.  In any case you can modify the spreadsheet in order to use input data in "RI" format.

Best 73

Piero, I0KPT

Il 29/09/2020 22:38, Federico - ik3umt ha scritto:
That's what I'm trying to do with nanovna....
Which S21 values should i insert in Steve's spreadsheet ?
Which format conversion is needed ?

Federico
ik3umt




need a startup guide that describes the behavior of the LEDs on the side

roger.tobin@...
 

I've scanned some of the materials and cannot find any descriptions of the
states of the LEDs. Any clues?



Thanks,

Roger

N1EYZ



Roger Tobin

Roger.tobin@gmail.com <mailto:Roger.tobin@gmail.com>


Re: Measuring CMC and S21 readings

Federico - ik3umt
 

That's what I'm trying to do with nanovna....
Which S21 values should i insert in Steve's spreadsheet ?
Which format conversion is needed ?

Federico
ik3umt


Re: New open source VNA released - excellent performance claimed

KENT BRITAIN
 

You would be amazed how many LNA's have a POSITIVE Return Loss.i.e. more comes back than goes in!    Kent WA5VJB

On Tuesday, September 29, 2020, 11:59:27 AM CDT, Jim Lux <jimlux@earthlink.net> wrote:

On 9/29/20 9:27 AM, Jerry Gaffke via groups.io wrote:
I would think attenuators and booster amps may as well be in the external cables.
Not terribly familiar with all this, perhaps there are special tricks involved to measure
something like s12 on an amp?
Oohh. that's everyone's first guess.. but think about it.. if you want
to measure the S11 of a LNA, you can't put 50dB of attenuation in front
of it.  You put 50 dB of attenuation in the stimulus line, then the
bridge, then 50dB of amplifier in the receiver line.  Then calibrate as
per usual.  If your receiver has good dynamic range, you don't need as
much amplifier.


Adding them to a $300 VNA board adds complication and sources of trouble.
Modular is good when it comes to seldom needed features.
True - maybe a different version of the board, that just leaves out the
resistive bridge.  And some extra SMA connectors


The ability to use a different bridge would be interesting.
Perhaps lay out the board such that  one could insert vertical SMA's
and stir some surface mount parts to accommodate this?
Yet another product variant for Hugen to sell at some time in the future.
But I suspect most nanovna users have never felt the need for an external bridge.
Requiring an external bridge for all work with the VNA is perhaps a bridge too far
towards modularity.
Typically, the way it's done is to have two connectors with a removable
jumper between them.

I would venture that for most VNAs that have this, the jumpers have
never been removed except when doing factory cal/re-cal.  Or when
someone sets the VNA down on a non-smooth surface and breaks the jumper.


Jerry, KE7ER



On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 08:47 AM, Jim Lux wrote:

yes, it's going towards the fieldfox type of capability, not the "bench VNA" -
The latter would typically bring out the source and receiver inputs with a
loop, so you could use different bridge or insert attenuation to make it
easier to test amplifiers.

This design has a 30dB sep attenuator, but still, if you're testing a LNA with
a maximum input of -70 dBm (because it's designed to receive signals at -150
dBm) this probably isn't your box of choice. Assuming he's putting +10 into
the attenuator, the output power will be -20 dBm or around there. That's
enough to saturate a lot of LNAs.

Likewise, if you were testing a 10W PA, you might want a booster amplifier in
the drive on port 1, and an attenuator in port 2.




Re: Connect Antenna Trap to NanoVNA

Jerry Gaffke
 

Also, after thinking about this a little bit, the resonant frequency of the
trap likely stays pretty much put.
However, the trap would significantly affect the antenna resonant frequencies for which the trap is not resonant.

Which is to say, you'd best listen to somebody else!

Jerry, KE7ER

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 10:44 AM, Jerry Gaffke wrote:

Correction to an obvious error:
Parallel tuned is a high impedance at resonance.
Jerry, KE7ER
Hide quoted text ( #quoted-173058290 )

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 08:36 AM, Jerry Gaffke wrote:



I would probably test a parallel tuned trap as a single port, with the far
end
of the trap grounded.
Should see the impedance head towards zero at the resonant frequency.
But could also be done as a 2 port measurement, loss approaching zero at
the
resonant frequency.

You will find that the resonant frequency will change when the trap is
part of
an antenna.
So do a single port test of the completed antenna, that's the real test.
Could be displayed as impedance, SWR, Smith Chart, whatever you are
comfortable with.
Look at each band individually, sweeping all of HF may not give enough
resolution to see resonances.


Re: NanoVNA bricked

Eric Ball
 

Herb,

Thank you so much for re-printing this here - saved my bacon!


Re: Connect Antenna Trap to NanoVNA

Jerry Gaffke
 

Correction to an obvious error:
Parallel tuned is a high impedance at resonance.
Jerry, KE7ER

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 08:36 AM, Jerry Gaffke wrote:


I would probably test a parallel tuned trap as a single port, with the far end
of the trap grounded.
Should see the impedance head towards zero at the resonant frequency.
But could also be done as a 2 port measurement, loss approaching zero at the
resonant frequency.

You will find that the resonant frequency will change when the trap is part of
an antenna.
So do a single port test of the completed antenna, that's the real test.
Could be displayed as impedance, SWR, Smith Chart, whatever you are
comfortable with.
Look at each band individually, sweeping all of HF may not give enough
resolution to see resonances.


Re: New open source VNA released - excellent performance claimed

Jim Lux
 

On 9/29/20 9:27 AM, Jerry Gaffke via groups.io wrote:
I would think attenuators and booster amps may as well be in the external cables.
Not terribly familiar with all this, perhaps there are special tricks involved to measure
something like s12 on an amp?
Oohh. that's everyone's first guess.. but think about it.. if you want to measure the S11 of a LNA, you can't put 50dB of attenuation in front of it. You put 50 dB of attenuation in the stimulus line, then the bridge, then 50dB of amplifier in the receiver line. Then calibrate as per usual. If your receiver has good dynamic range, you don't need as much amplifier.


Adding them to a $300 VNA board adds complication and sources of trouble.
Modular is good when it comes to seldom needed features.
True - maybe a different version of the board, that just leaves out the resistive bridge. And some extra SMA connectors

The ability to use a different bridge would be interesting.
Perhaps lay out the board such that one could insert vertical SMA's
and stir some surface mount parts to accommodate this?
Yet another product variant for Hugen to sell at some time in the future.
But I suspect most nanovna users have never felt the need for an external bridge.
Requiring an external bridge for all work with the VNA is perhaps a bridge too far
towards modularity.
Typically, the way it's done is to have two connectors with a removable jumper between them.

I would venture that for most VNAs that have this, the jumpers have never been removed except when doing factory cal/re-cal. Or when someone sets the VNA down on a non-smooth surface and breaks the jumper.

Jerry, KE7ER
On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 08:47 AM, Jim Lux wrote:

yes, it's going towards the fieldfox type of capability, not the "bench VNA" -
The latter would typically bring out the source and receiver inputs with a
loop, so you could use different bridge or insert attenuation to make it
easier to test amplifiers.

This design has a 30dB sep attenuator, but still, if you're testing a LNA with
a maximum input of -70 dBm (because it's designed to receive signals at -150
dBm) this probably isn't your box of choice. Assuming he's putting +10 into
the attenuator, the output power will be -20 dBm or around there. That's
enough to saturate a lot of LNAs.

Likewise, if you were testing a 10W PA, you might want a booster amplifier in
the drive on port 1, and an attenuator in port 2.


Re: Connect Antenna Trap to NanoVNA

Roger Need
 

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 06:17 AM, <ed.jackson001@comcast.net> wrote:


Hello all...
I'm new to VNA's, and need some guidance.
What is the way to connect my NanoVNA-H to a dipole antenna trap so I can tune
it, and read resonant frequency, Q, impedance, etc.?
There was an application note written for the SARK-110 VNA on measuring traps. The setup details on the analyzer are different but the method is the same....

https://sites.google.com/site/sark110va/application-notes/measuring-traps

Roger


Re: Wrong firmware - white screen

Larry Rothman
 

Eric, if DeFuSe demomshows your device is in dfu mode, your driver's are working. Make sure you're using the Upgrade (Flash) button and not the Upload (read device flash) function. 
If you used Upload, grab a new copy of the H FW you wanted to flash as you corrupted whatever file you were using. 
As Erik said, you only need Dio, clk, gnd and maybe vdd and all the pins are already marked along the side of the Nanovna. For STlink, you do not need to put it info dfu mode. 


On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 at 10:26 AM, Eric Ball<erictball@gmail.com> wrote: I inadvertantly selected the H4 firmware when attempting to upgrade my 2.5" screen H NanoVNA resulting in a permanent white screen. To compound the matter, whilst trying to recover I appear to corrupted the Serial/USB driver (Windows 10) so that, even though DfuSe shows 'STM Device in DFU Mode" and that when I attempt to write to the NanoVNA all appears to load and verify my NanoVNA remains white screen.
I've purchased a ST Link-V2 but the supplied ribbon has only four connectors and the NanoVNA has SWDIO, SWCLK, GND, NRST and VCC (?) so I'm unsure how to connect it.
As can be seen from the above - I need expert assistance!


Re: New open source VNA released - excellent performance claimed

Jerry Gaffke
 

I would think attenuators and booster amps may as well be in the external cables.
Not terribly familiar with all this, perhaps there are special tricks involved to measure
something like s12 on an amp?
Adding them to a $300 VNA board adds complication and sources of trouble.
Modular is good when it comes to seldom needed features.

The ability to use a different bridge would be interesting.
Perhaps lay out the board such that one could insert vertical SMA's
and stir some surface mount parts to accommodate this?
Yet another product variant for Hugen to sell at some time in the future.
But I suspect most nanovna users have never felt the need for an external bridge.
Requiring an external bridge for all work with the VNA is perhaps a bridge too far
towards modularity.

Jerry, KE7ER

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 08:47 AM, Jim Lux wrote:

yes, it's going towards the fieldfox type of capability, not the "bench VNA" -
The latter would typically bring out the source and receiver inputs with a
loop, so you could use different bridge or insert attenuation to make it
easier to test amplifiers.

This design has a 30dB sep attenuator, but still, if you're testing a LNA with
a maximum input of -70 dBm (because it's designed to receive signals at -150
dBm) this probably isn't your box of choice. Assuming he's putting +10 into
the attenuator, the output power will be -20 dBm or around there. That's
enough to saturate a lot of LNAs.

Likewise, if you were testing a 10W PA, you might want a booster amplifier in
the drive on port 1, and an attenuator in port 2.


Re: New open source VNA released - excellent performance claimed

Jim Lux
 

On 9/29/20 8:27 AM, Jerry Gaffke via groups.io wrote:
That's a beautiful looking board layout, clearly done by somebody who knows microwave RF.
If the spec's are anything like those stated, I'll probably buy one eventually.
Whatever final form it takes.
yes, it's going towards the fieldfox type of capability, not the "bench VNA" - The latter would typically bring out the source and receiver inputs with a loop, so you could use different bridge or insert attenuation to make it easier to test amplifiers.

This design has a 30dB sep attenuator, but still, if you're testing a LNA with a maximum input of -70 dBm (because it's designed to receive signals at -150 dBm) this probably isn't your box of choice. Assuming he's putting +10 into the attenuator, the output power will be -20 dBm or around there. That's enough to saturate a lot of LNAs.

Likewise, if you were testing a 10W PA, you might want a booster amplifier in the drive on port 1, and an attenuator in port 2.

Again, maybe that's not the target use of this device. It would be great at looking at coupling among antennas for MIMO, for instance.

One, might, though, wonder if you could get similar functionality from something like a AD9361 or LMS7002 based radio, maybe a scaled up Pluto from Analog devices - the 9361 only goes down to 70MHz.
The Lime LMS7002 goes down lower, but only goes up to 3.3G.





Could sell two products, the basic board and a standalone system.
The standalone system would be cigar box sized with a really good display and
extender cables using the connector of choice out to a hole in the box.
And an RPi, battery, USB ports for optional flash, network, keyboard, mouse,
If made to be as convenient as this chromebook, could double as my main portable computer.
Building a standalone box would be far easier than the VNA board,
and could be sold at double the price. Perhaps done by a third party.
Sell spare extender cables for when the outside connectors wear out.
Being a digital guy with 2 decades of coding in VHDL on Xilinx FPGA's,
I'm looking forward to seeing what this thing can eventually
be taught to do. Should be spectacular!
Jerry, KE7ER
On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 10:07 PM, Hugen wrote:

We have been working closely with Jan and provided all manufacturing support
for Jan's second version of the VNA design. The results so far are very
satisfactory, but we still need to make some final improvements. It is
expected that Jan can complete the final design of VNA2 in the next few weeks.
I will distribute some early verified versions of VNA2 to some testers next
week to collect feedback on actual usage. If all goes well, we will sell this
version of VNA with Jan. If less than 100 sets are manufactured, the cost of a
single BOM is higher than US$200. If the manufacturing quantity is increased
to more than 1,000 sets, the cost of a single BOM can be reduced to less than
US$150. In any case, plus tax and other sales costs, the cost of a single VNA
is more than $200, and the final price will be more than 5 times that of
NanoVNA. But we still think this is a very meaningful product. Once we make
more progress in our work, we will announce it in the group.


Re: Connect Antenna Trap to NanoVNA

Jerry Gaffke
 

I would probably test a parallel tuned trap as a single port, with the far end of the trap grounded.
Should see the impedance head towards zero at the resonant frequency.
But could also be done as a 2 port measurement, loss approaching zero at the resonant frequency.

You will find that the resonant frequency will change when the trap is part of an antenna.
So do a single port test of the completed antenna, that's the real test.
Could be displayed as impedance, SWR, Smith Chart, whatever you are comfortable with.
Look at each band individually, sweeping all of HF may not give enough resolution to see resonances.

Jerry, KE7ER

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 06:17 AM, <ed.jackson001@comcast.net> wrote:

Hello all...
I'm new to VNA's, and need some guidance.
What is the way to connect my NanoVNA-H to a dipole antenna trap so I can tune
it, and read resonant frequency, Q, impedance, etc.?

Thank you for your time.

Ed


Re: New open source VNA released - excellent performance claimed

Jerry Gaffke
 

That's a beautiful looking board layout, clearly done by somebody who knows microwave RF.
If the spec's are anything like those stated, I'll probably buy one eventually.
Whatever final form it takes.

Could sell two products, the basic board and a standalone system.
The standalone system would be cigar box sized with a really good display and
extender cables using the connector of choice out to a hole in the box.
And an RPi, battery, USB ports for optional flash, network, keyboard, mouse,
If made to be as convenient as this chromebook, could double as my main portable computer.

Building a standalone box would be far easier than the VNA board,
and could be sold at double the price. Perhaps done by a third party.
Sell spare extender cables for when the outside connectors wear out.

Being a digital guy with 2 decades of coding in VHDL on Xilinx FPGA's,
I'm looking forward to seeing what this thing can eventually
be taught to do. Should be spectacular!

Jerry, KE7ER

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 10:07 PM, Hugen wrote:

We have been working closely with Jan and provided all manufacturing support
for Jan's second version of the VNA design. The results so far are very
satisfactory, but we still need to make some final improvements. It is
expected that Jan can complete the final design of VNA2 in the next few weeks.
I will distribute some early verified versions of VNA2 to some testers next
week to collect feedback on actual usage. If all goes well, we will sell this
version of VNA with Jan. If less than 100 sets are manufactured, the cost of a
single BOM is higher than US$200. If the manufacturing quantity is increased
to more than 1,000 sets, the cost of a single BOM can be reduced to less than
US$150. In any case, plus tax and other sales costs, the cost of a single VNA
is more than $200, and the final price will be more than 5 times that of
NanoVNA. But we still think this is a very meaningful product. Once we make
more progress in our work, we will announce it in the group.


Re: New open source VNA released - excellent performance claimed

aleks07111971@...
 

Hope DisLord gets an engineering sample?


Re: Wrong firmware - white screen

Erik Kaashoek
 

Only connect SWDIO, SWCLK and GND. NRST is not needed. Neither is VDD

If needed force nanoVNA in DFU mode by connecting BOOT0 and VDD before switching on.



--
NanoVNA Wiki: https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki/home
NanoVNA Files: https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/files
Erik, PD0EK


Re: New open source VNA released - excellent performance claimed

Anton Moehammad
 

I also interested in "engineering sample" with or without milled enclosure 






Pada Selasa, 29 September 2020 18.12.10 WIB, Carsten Bormann <cabocabo@gmail.com> menulis:





On 2020-09-29, at 11:16, Dr. David Kirkby, Kirkby Microwave Ltd <drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:

No screen - the hard work is done on a host PC.
What a shame.
It is probably a quite limited amount of work to port the PC software to Android.
Then simply sell a bundle of a cheap Android tablet (these are cheaper than the screens inside them :-) and the screenless VNA.  Hardware for bolting them together is optional...

Grüße, Carsten


Re: New open source VNA released - excellent performance claimed

Jim Lux
 

On 9/29/20 4:12 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote:
On 2020-09-29, at 11:16, Dr. David Kirkby, Kirkby Microwave Ltd <drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:

No screen - the hard work is done on a host PC.
What a shame.
It is probably a quite limited amount of work to port the PC software to Android.
Then simply sell a bundle of a cheap Android tablet (these are cheaper than the screens inside them :-) and the screenless VNA. Hardware for bolting them together is optional...
Grüße, Carsten
Indeed - if there were a decent python+libraries on Android, it would be straightforward to move NanoVNA-Saver as a start.

If you were *bold* - Java is sort of the native Android language, but I don't know how much work it would be to rewrite NanoVNA-Saver in Java - there are libraries for things like FFT out there.


https://wiki.python.org/moin/Android gives what seems to be about half a dozen candidates.

It could be quite an ordeal, though. It might be easier to find an inexpensive tablet running something else.
I spent about 6 months on a project at work trying to port Matlab and python code onto an Android platform, and it was a painful, and ultimately unsuccessful experience. At that time (2016?) it wound up being wrapper on top of wrapper on top of wrapper.

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