Topics

Wonder why request for observatory code is still unanswered

kimlangdk
 

Hi mpml.
On November 2. I submitted my first batch of astrometry for the MPC.
I do timeseries photometry with MPO Canopus and have saved the astrometry generated by AutoMatch.
Two measurements each night of each asteroid from four different nights. A total of 24 measurements in the batch.

I have heard nothing after a month. Is that normal?

Regards 
Kim

Alberto Colognese
 

Hi,

Same thing is happening to me (I am still waiting after several months...)

L. H. Wasserman
 

You could write to the mpc and ask....

mpc@...

Larry Wasserman
Lowell Observatory

On 12/10/19 2:31 PM, Alberto Colognese wrote:
Hi,

Same thing is happening to me (I am still waiting after several months...)

 

Hi Alberto, Kim, and Larry,

I know an observer (one of my software customers) who has been waiting for his
observatory code for about one year now. I think such a waiting time is way too
long and it is quite discouraging for new observers. A few months ago I wrote
about this to the MPC's director, who told me that they would issue new observatory
codes as time permits, as they were busy recovering from the June 5 hardware malfunction.

I have noticed on the Minor Planet Circulars that the MPC has been issuing some observatory
codes over the last year, but I do not know how long these observers waited in line to
get their codes. My first observatory code back in 1996 took at most a few days to be
issued.

Best,
Paulo

On 2019-12-10 21:31, Alberto Colognese wrote:
Hi,
Same thing is happening to me (I am still waiting after several months...)

Veres, Peter
 

I suggest to everyone who is waiting for too long to contact MPC. We have a backlog of large number of new obscode requests that we are now processing.

Best,


On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 2:51 PM Paulo Holvorcem <holvorcem@...> wrote:
Hi Alberto, Kim, and Larry,

I know an observer (one of my software customers) who has been waiting for his
observatory code for about one year now. I think such a waiting time is way too
long and it is quite discouraging for new observers. A few months ago I wrote
about this to the MPC's director, who told me that they would issue new observatory
codes as time permits, as they were busy recovering from the June 5 hardware malfunction.

I have noticed on the Minor Planet Circulars that the MPC has been issuing some observatory
codes over the last year, but I do not know how long these observers waited in line to
get their codes. My first observatory code back in 1996 took at most a few days to be
issued.

Best,
Paulo

On 2019-12-10 21:31, Alberto Colognese wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Same thing is happening to me (I am still waiting after several months...)
>





--

Peter Vereš

Astronomer

(SSP/Minor Planet Center)

Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian

 
Web: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~pveres/

Office: B-313 | Phone: (617) 496 7610 |

60 Garden Street | MS 15 | Cambridge, MA 02138



cfa.harvard.edu | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Newsletter

P. Clay Sherrod
 

I think that several folks have done just that.  Like the message said:  "...still waiting after several months."
 
Dr. Clay
-------
Arkansas Sky Observatories
www.arksky.org
ASO MPC H45 - Petit Jean Mountain South
ASO MPC H41 - Petit Jean Mountain North
ASO MPC H43 - Conway West
Publications:  http://arksky.org/publications
Join Arkansas Sky Observatories on Facebook
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: L. H. Wasserman <lhw@...>
To: Alberto Colognese <alberto@...>, <mpml@groups.io>
Sent: 12/10/2019 3:39:45 PM
Subject: Re: {MPML} Wonder why request for observatory code is still unanswered

You could write to the mpc and ask....

mpc@...

Larry Wasserman
Lowell Observatory

On 12/10/19 2:31 PM, Alberto Colognese wrote:
Hi,

Same thing is happening to me (I am still waiting after several months...)

 

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the update.

Since the requests are now being processed, it seems to me that it would be best that
the waiting observers do not contact the MPC at this time, to avoid slowing down the
MPC's work. I assume that no observatory code requests were lost in the June 5 hardware
failure, or in the last couple of years, so that no one needs to resubmit their requests,
and that the MPC is processing the observatory code requests in the order they were received.
Are these assumptions correct?

Paulo

On 2019-12-10 22:02, Veres, Peter wrote:
I suggest to everyone who is waiting for too long to contact MPC. We have a backlog of large number of new obscode requests that we are now processing.
Best,
On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 2:51 PM Paulo Holvorcem <@holvorcem <mailto:@holvorcem>> wrote:
Hi Alberto, Kim, and Larry,
I know an observer (one of my software customers) who has been waiting for his
observatory code for about one year now. I think such a waiting time is way too
long and it is quite discouraging for new observers. A few months ago I wrote
about this to the MPC's director, who told me that they would issue new observatory
codes as time permits, as they were busy recovering from the June 5 hardware malfunction.
I have noticed on the Minor Planet Circulars that the MPC has been issuing some observatory
codes over the last year, but I do not know how long these observers waited in line to
get their codes. My first observatory code back in 1996 took at most a few days to be
issued.
Best,
Paulo
On 2019-12-10 21:31, Alberto Colognese wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Same thing is happening to me (I am still waiting after several months...)
>
--
*Peter Vereš*
*Astronomer*
(SSP/Minor Planet Center)
*Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian*
Web: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~pveres/
Office: B-313 | Phone: (617) 496 7610 |
60 Garden Street | MS 15 | Cambridge, MA 02138
cfa.harvard.edu <http://cfa.harvard.edu/>| Facebook <http://cfa.harvard.edu/facebook>| Twitter <http://cfa.harvard.edu/twitter>| YouTube <http://cfa.harvard.edu/youtube>| Newsletter <http://cfa.harvard.edu/newsletter>
<http://cfa.harvard.edu/newsletter>

nick_dunckel
 

I have not yet received a response to a request for an observatory code that I sent on April 14 of this year. I have emailed a
contact within the MPC and I have emailed a person who is considered to be an intermediary for the MPC, both without any result.

When I compare the lists of observatory codes that I have downloaded from the MPC over the last year or so I see little new activity
other than setting up observatory codes for GAIA and other special cases.

I understand that the MPC is hugely overburdened these days. Perhaps they have concluded that new amateur observers are not worth
the overhead they require?

-----Original Message-----
From: mpml@groups.io [mailto:mpml@groups.io] On Behalf Of Paulo Holvorcem
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 2:38 PM
To: mpml@groups.io
Subject: Re: {MPML} Wonder why request for observatory code is still unanswered

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the update.

Since the requests are now being processed, it seems to me that it would be best that
the waiting observers do not contact the MPC at this time, to avoid slowing down the
MPC's work. I assume that no observatory code requests were lost in the June 5 hardware
failure, or in the last couple of years, so that no one needs to resubmit their requests,
and that the MPC is processing the observatory code requests in the order they were received.
Are these assumptions correct?

Paulo

On 2019-12-10 22:02, Veres, Peter wrote:
I suggest to everyone who is waiting for too long to contact MPC. We have a backlog of large number of new obscode requests that
we
are now processing.

Best,

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 2:51 PM Paulo Holvorcem <@holvorcem <mailto:@holvorcem>> wrote:

Hi Alberto, Kim, and Larry,

I know an observer (one of my software customers) who has been waiting for his
observatory code for about one year now. I think such a waiting time is way too
long and it is quite discouraging for new observers. A few months ago I wrote
about this to the MPC's director, who told me that they would issue new observatory
codes as time permits, as they were busy recovering from the June 5 hardware malfunction.

I have noticed on the Minor Planet Circulars that the MPC has been issuing some observatory
codes over the last year, but I do not know how long these observers waited in line to
get their codes. My first observatory code back in 1996 took at most a few days to be
issued.

Best,
Paulo

On 2019-12-10 21:31, Alberto Colognese wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Same thing is happening to me (I am still waiting after several months...)
>





--

*Peter Vereš*

*Astronomer*

(SSP/Minor Planet Center)

*Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian*


Web: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~pveres/

Office: B-313 | Phone: (617) 496 7610 |

60 Garden Street | MS 15 | Cambridge, MA 02138



cfa.harvard.edu <http://cfa.harvard.edu/>| Facebook <http://cfa.harvard.edu/facebook>| Twitter <http://cfa.harvard.edu/twitter>|
YouTube <http://cfa.harvard.edu/youtube>| Newsletter <http://cfa.harvard.edu/newsletter>

<http://cfa.harvard.edu/newsletter>

Bill J. Gray
 

On 12/10/19 6:09 PM, nick_dunckel wrote:
I have not yet received a response to a request for an observatory code that I sent on April 14 of this year. I have emailed a
contact within the MPC and I have emailed a person who is considered to be an intermediary for the MPC, both without any result.
When I compare the lists of observatory codes that I have downloaded from the MPC over the last year or so I see little new activity
other than setting up observatory codes for GAIA and other special cases.
Seems to run in fits and starts. They added 15 codes sometime in October :

https://github.com/Bill-Gray/find_orb/commit/0268d2063629a598829abaf475b5c8a008122a9e#diff-5cb60657400e505eb2326adad48399de

and since then have added (310), "Minor Planet Center Test Code",
centered on a dome at MPC, and corrected one site. But overall,
not much has been happening. A passably detailed history of recent
changes is at

https://github.com/Bill-Gray/find_orb/commits/master/ObsCodes.htm

-- Bill

Bill J. Gray
 

On 12/10/19 6:09 PM, nick_dunckel wrote:
I have not yet received a response to a request for an observatory code that I sent on April 14 of this year. I have emailed a
contact within the MPC and I have emailed a person who is considered to be an intermediary for the MPC, both without any result.
Does seem kinda strange to me. From what information
escapes to the outside, it seems to me that MPC is definitely
facing some tough issues. They've got a lot of legacy code to
port from OpenVMS to more "modern" systems, which gained
particular urgency after the June crash of a VMS machine. The
idea of porting lots of old FORTRAN code to current-day systems,
much of it probably written by people no longer at MPC to
explain it, would not make me a happy camper.

They've hired some new people. I assume that'll eventually
be a help (they've been short-handed), but there may be a near
term problem of getting everybody organized.

But adding an observatory code really ought to be as simple
as adding a line to the observatory codes file. Ideally, this
would be accompanied by a sanity check, such as looking at the
specified location in G__gle Maps to see if there's a dome or
shed in that spot (*) and correcting the altitude for the geoid
height. But (again, as an outsider) it seems as if it ought to
take maybe a couple of minutes per observatory code.

For what little it's worth, I'm happy to add "observatory
codes" for use with Find_Orb and the other on-line tools that
I provide, such as the satellite ID and GPS ephemeris/timing
tools. I've done that by adding "MPC codes" that won't
conflict with the current MPC scheme :

https://github.com/Bill-Gray/find_orb/blob/master/rovers.txt

I emphasize that this doesn't really help much, since the
"new code" is not universally used, particularly by MPC.

-- Bill

(*) I do know that in at least two recent cases, that wasn't
done and the longitude was correct, but had the wrong sign!
In the first case, "longitude West 6.26" became _East_ 6.26,
and I got a slightly annoyed inquiry as to why my list showed a
Spanish observatory as being in Algeria... I think they assumed
I was just a typically geographically-challenged American. In
the second case, an observatory near Madrid got flipped across
the prime meridian and into the Mediterranean.

In both cases, I suggested asking MPC to fix ObsCodes.htm,
and they did so quickly.

 

Hi Bill,

I think it is not so simple because the residuals in the initial batch of astrometry
submitted by the observer have to be checked, and, if the residuals are not good enough,
new observations have to be requested. Still this should not take very long. Since
at least late 2017 the observatory requests have been taking at least several months
to be processed, apparently due to the MPC being working on non-trivial software upgrades.
The June 5 hardware malfunction apparently made issuing new observatory codes drop in priority
compared to recovering from the crash and making software upgrades.

Best,
Paulo

On 2019-12-11 02:31, Bill J. Gray wrote:
   But adding an observatory code really ought to be as simple
as adding a line to the observatory codes file.  Ideally,  this
would be accompanied by a sanity check,  such as looking at the
specified location in G__gle Maps to see if there's a dome or
shed in that spot (*) and correcting the altitude for the geoid
height.  But (again,  as an outsider) it seems as if it ought to
take maybe a couple of minutes per observatory code.

Elizabeth Warner
 

https://minorplanetcenter.net/iau/MPCStatus.html  

"Observatory Codes
2019 Dec 11: 15:31. In processing requests for new observatory codes, verifying the precise location of the observatory and evaluating the quality of test observations can be time-consuming. However, these steps are necessary to maintain the quality and integrity of the MPC data collection. The MPC endeavors to process all requests as time permits. We prioritize requests from observatories that will submit large volumes of observations of reliable quality or that will submit crucial, high quality observations."


On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 7:38 AM Paulo Holvorcem <holvorcem@...> wrote:
Hi Bill,

I think it is not so simple because the residuals in the initial batch of astrometry
submitted by the observer have to be checked, and, if the residuals are not good enough,
new observations have to be requested. Still this should not take very long. Since
at least late 2017 the observatory requests have been taking at least several months
to be processed, apparently due to the MPC being working on non-trivial software upgrades.
The June 5 hardware malfunction apparently made issuing new observatory codes drop in priority
compared to recovering from the crash and making software upgrades.

Best,
Paulo

On 2019-12-11 02:31, Bill J. Gray wrote:
>     But adding an observatory code really ought to be as simple
> as adding a line to the observatory codes file.  Ideally,  this
> would be accompanied by a sanity check,  such as looking at the
> specified location in G__gle Maps to see if there's a dome or
> shed in that spot (*) and correcting the altitude for the geoid
> height.  But (again,  as an outsider) it seems as if it ought to
> take maybe a couple of minutes per observatory code.
>



Richard A. Kowalski
 

On 12/10/2019 4:09 PM, nick_dunckel wrote:


<snip>


I understand that the MPC is hugely overburdened these days. Perhaps they have concluded that new amateur observers are not worth
the overhead they require?
That is most certainly NOT the case. Amateurs continue to provide vital follow up observations, particularly from sparsely covered longitudes and southern latitudes.

Concluding that new amateur observers are not worth the overhead is not reasonable. Please don't let the delays from MPC discourage you. Your patience is appreciated, though a reminder every so often might not be a bad idea either if the delay has been excessive. Even those of us at the major surveys need to send a reminder about questions or requests every so often too.

Cheers

--
Richard A. Kowalski
Senior Research Specialist
Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
University of Arizona

alejandro palado
 

Our request been more than a year now, we keep sending but the reply is the same to fill up the form for observatory details and location.

On Tuesday, December 17, 2019, 10:52:41 AM GMT+4, Richard A. Kowalski <kowalski@...> wrote:




On 12/10/2019 4:09 PM, nick_dunckel wrote:


<snip>


> I understand that the MPC is hugely overburdened these days. Perhaps they have concluded that new amateur observers are not worth
> the overhead they require?

That is most certainly NOT the case. Amateurs continue to provide vital
follow up observations, particularly from sparsely covered longitudes
and southern latitudes.

Concluding that new amateur observers are not worth the overhead is not
reasonable. Please don't let the delays from MPC discourage you. Your
patience is appreciated, though a reminder every so often might not be a
bad idea either if the delay has been excessive. Even those of us at the
major surveys need to send a reminder about questions or requests every
so often too.

Cheers

--
Richard A. Kowalski
Senior Research Specialist
Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
University of Arizona



Richard A. Kowalski
 

On 12/17/2019 5:08 AM, alejandro palado via Groups.Io wrote:
Our request been more than a year now, we keep sending but the reply is the same to fill up the form for observatory details and location.

And what is their response when you tell them you have done so repeatedly?

--
Richard A. Kowalski
Senior Research Specialist
Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
University of Arizona