Topics

Something to Think About

Ernest Bull
 

I don’t know if any of you heard BBC R4 today at 13:45? A very thought provoking programme on our total reliance upon our GPS gizmos. I know that I totally relied on mine. How about you?

Have a listen - just 14 minutes - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000bmtc
_________

ErnB

Carol Weaver
 

Yes and no

Possibly as we’ve had one for about 20 years from Streetpilot   Always Garmin

We learned you can’t rely on them as they have a habit of taking shortcuts. ie when on a D road in France coming to a crossroads it sees a shorter route to cut a corner (once trying to take us through a forest no good in a mh with low branches!!

So we usually (Duncan) decides what route he wants. It’s put into garmin (aire) and off we go. But I have a map open with route to follow so I can see if it’s doing it and can just say keep on it’s cutting a corner

But they are invaluable for finding aires. So improved have they become from early days.  Vicarious these days are always correct. At least ones we’ve used

Great tool BUT not to totally rely on

Ours haven’t had measurements on but I check for low bridges on maps. 

About to buy a new one. Looking at Harmin Camper 785 which includes a DASHCAM built in 

Carol

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 at 22:01, Ernest Bull <ernb32@...> wrote:
I don’t know if any of you heard BBC R4 today at 13:45? A very thought provoking programme on our total reliance upon our GPS gizmos. I know that I totally relied on mine. How about you?

Have a listen - just 14 minutes - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000bmtc
_________

ErnB

--
--
Carol WeaverAires photos here|. www.carolweaver.co.uk/Travel
Plusnet -cardun if you sign up recommend me please

timsinc Sinclair
 

Haven't listened to it yet, Ern, but have just read about GPS
"spoofing" - so far seems ships the main target of a kind of hacking
that fools receivers. Technology can be a double-edged sword.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614689/ghost-ships-crop-circles-and-soft-gold-a-gps-mystery-in-shanghai/

TimS

On 22/11/2019, Ernest Bull <ernb32@...> wrote:
I don’t know if any of you heard BBC R4 today at 13:45? A very thought
provoking programme on our total reliance upon our GPS gizmos. I know that I
totally relied on mine. How about you?

Have a listen - just 14 minutes - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000bmtc
_________

ErnB


--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*

Sandytrax
 

I’m surprised that sat navs such as Garmin haven’t gone the way of fax machines.
Surely they are obsolete now.

I first had a basic satnav about 15 years ago. It was ok but you had to change maps when entering a new country. I once set it for Venice from Calais and found myself driving along canal toll paths. Scenic but surely not the most efficient route.

I then bought a Garmin Nuvi which has been a godsend on many occasions.
My current van came with a Garmin/Avtex/CC. I hate it. It tells you there’s a bend when, guess what, you’re negotiating a bend. I had to turn off all notifications but some still get through.
It also has a Bluetooth connection to my reversing camera.

I use the google maps app all the time now and wouldn’t use anything else apart from perhaps Waze.

It’s free and it records all my journeys all the time wherever I am. At the end of the month I get an email showing me a timeline of all the places I’ve been every day of the last month. I love it.

My phone links into my van’s media aux point so I listen to Spotify as I’m driving. The music volume is lowered whenever google maps has an instruction.

I’m currently just south of Nantes heading for an aire at La Rochelle. I use the search4sites app to find the aire and that links to google maps to take me there. Google maps also adjust routes to take account of traffic.

Don’t want google tracking you? If they do I don’t care 😀
Cheers
Brian

Alan Morris
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 at 23:34, timsinc Sinclair <timsinc@...> wrote:

Haven't listened to it yet, Ern, but have just read about GPS
"spoofing" - so far seems ships the main target of a kind of hacking
that fools receivers. Technology can be a double-edged sword.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614689/ghost-ships-crop-circles-and-soft-gold-a-gps-mystery-in-shanghai/
This technology is nothing new, but the first time I've heard of it's
illegal use. The British MOD regularly conduct these tests, which are
available for anyone to see. I did know the URL, but it's probably
now lost in my ever increasing bookmarks data!

Test equipment is sold for GPS receiver testing, that replaces the Sat
Nav signals with it's own false signals. Again, available for many
years.

Alan.

timsinc Sinclair
 

On 23/11/2019, Sandytrax <brianinspain12@...> wrote:

I use the google maps app all the time now and wouldn’t use anything else
apart from perhaps Waze.
Horses for courses. I hate google maps. Whether lost walking in a city
centre or searching for that hard-to-find obscure cerificated farm
campsite its first instruction is: Head west (or n,e,s) along
such-and-such a street.

Which way, for goodness on a cloudy day, is west? Get out
old-fashioned compass? Perhaps meant to look on which side of a tree
trunk moss is growing.

I only resort to online-required Google when I've found the given
coords for a destination turn out to be wrong. That said, I do like
going to Google maps timeline to see the TomTom route I've taken on
any particular day.

TimS

PS, you can turn off Google tracking if privacy a concern.



It’s free and it records all my journeys all the time wherever I am. At the
end of the month I get an email showing me a timeline of all the places I’ve
been every day of the last month. I love it.

My phone links into my van’s media aux point so I listen to Spotify as I’m
driving. The music volume is lowered whenever google maps has an
instruction.

I’m currently just south of Nantes heading for an aire at La Rochelle. I use
the search4sites app to find the aire and that links to google maps to take
me there. Google maps also adjust routes to take account of traffic.

Don’t want google tracking you? If they do I don’t care 😀
Cheers
Brian






--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*

Alan Morris
 

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 at 12:50, Sandytrax <brianinspain12@...> wrote:

I’m surprised that sat navs such as Garmin haven’t gone the way of fax machines.
Surely they are obsolete now.
No they are not obsolete. Basically there are two types of GPS
receivers. The first type that I first bought in 1996, and the newer
'road navigators' to get one to a known other place. The first type
are ideal for motorhome travellers as they can display information
about what's around one's route. Makes touring much more interesting.

I first had a basic satnav about 15 years ago. It was ok but you had to change maps when entering a new country. I once set it for Venice from Calais and found myself driving along canal toll paths. Scenic but surely not the most efficient route.
You probably had the wrong device and/or it was not setup correctly.

My current van came with a Garmin/Avtex/CC. I hate it. It tells you there’s a bend when, guess what, you’re negotiating a bend. I had to turn off all notifications but some still get through.
I also have a similar earlier Garmin/Avtex/CC, a Camper 660LMT-D and
like you switched-off bend and other warnings.

I use the google maps app all the time now and wouldn’t use anything else apart from perhaps Waze.
I have Google maps and many other maps covering the whole of Europe
and Morocco. Used with OziExplorer on a laptop, with a connected
GPSr. Perfect full size screen and details!

It’s free and it records all my journeys all the time wherever I am. At the end of the month I get an email showing me a timeline of all the places I’ve been every day of the last month. I love it.
I have all of my tracks and waypoints back to 1996 for display on
OziEx and Garmin's BaseCamp.

Google maps also adjust routes to take account of traffic.
Like my Garmins.

Garmin's best GPSr is the GPSMAP 276Cx, much better than Locus Map on
my Note 9, which falls in the second type of GPSr.

Finally, Garmins and OziEx also work were there is no internet connection!

Alan

David Scholes
 

Hi

I kind of agree with all of you except for the original comment about sat navs being redundant.
I now use 2 devices, a TomTom and google maps. The google maps does work but I can hardly hear the female voice ( I am half deaf) so I listen to the male voice on the TomTom. I look at both of them. Tim, if you download the appropriate map onto google maps you don’t need to be online whilst you are driving. I leave the Garmin in my car back home. It is good with traffic and diversions because of it but what you call cutting corners I call trying to kill me because that is what it feels like. Everyone of such diversions is narrow and full of overhanging trees and the like.
The best is probably the google maps if only because it holds so many pois automatically so finding say, the nearest Lidl or say, sewing materials shop or anything else becomes so much easier. Especially I like it’s linking to the camper contact app. Just find your intended site and click show in google maps (then enter the lat & long coords into the TomTom).
As far as the sat nav problems are concerned, I am not a ship in China and why would anybody try to muck up my sat nav. Doubtless that would be an early warning of real trouble: sat nav not working, first step in ww3, knock out navigation sats.
But sat navs redundant, no!

David

On 23 Nov 2019, at 17:15, timsinc Sinclair <timsinc@...> wrote:

On 23/11/2019, Sandytrax <brianinspain12@...> wrote:

I use the google maps app all the time now and wouldn’t use anything else
apart from perhaps Waze.
Horses for courses. I hate google maps. Whether lost walking in a city
centre or searching for that hard-to-find obscure cerificated farm
campsite its first instruction is: Head west (or n,e,s) along
such-and-such a street.

Which way, for goodness on a cloudy day, is west? Get out
old-fashioned compass? Perhaps meant to look on which side of a tree
trunk moss is growing.

I only resort to online-required Google when I've found the given
coords for a destination turn out to be wrong. That said, I do like
going to Google maps timeline to see the TomTom route I've taken on
any particular day.

TimS

PS, you can turn off Google tracking if privacy a concern.



It’s free and it records all my journeys all the time wherever I am. At the
end of the month I get an email showing me a timeline of all the places I’ve
been every day of the last month. I love it.

My phone links into my van’s media aux point so I listen to Spotify as I’m
driving. The music volume is lowered whenever google maps has an
instruction.

I’m currently just south of Nantes heading for an aire at La Rochelle. I use
the search4sites app to find the aire and that links to google maps to take
me there. Google maps also adjust routes to take account of traffic.

Don’t want google tracking you? If they do I don’t care 😀
Cheers
Brian






--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*


Brian Reay
 

'Senior Management' always tries to track our position, at least when we are in unfamiliar roads on a trip (mainly in Europe) on a map. I find it quite useful. The SatNav is fine, in fact excellent, for immediate directions etc if all is well but, if you hit a problem (eg a major hold up) or just fancy taking a scenic route, you can't beat an old fashioned map etc. 

I also like Google Maps, especially the sat view, to check out routes and approaches to campsites to check for 'tight' spots (we tow a trailer and reversing isn't fun). Plus, even with our Garmin GPS which has the facility to put in the vehicle dimensions, sometimes we've been directed to take routes I'd rather avoid. The Caravan Club is pretty good at including final directions to avoid problems approaching sites, including to sites booked via their European service (at least in France etc). 

I rather doubt we really need to worry about GPS being 'turned off' by the Authorities. True, it could be 'knocked out' but would we be worried about driving around at such a time?

Regards
Brian

Neill King \(MH-List\)
 

I too use both when travelling recreationally.  Maps for broad ideas, Satnav for detailed local help, usually as a moving map without voice but with instructions – albeit those sometimes ignored.

 

For a magical mystery tour we often use a map and guidebooks and weather forecasts to choose a not-too-distant zone to head for and then set the satnav on shortest while also avoiding motorways.  Not wise maybe in urban situations, or in narrow Cornwall say, but this has given some great results in more rural French & Iberian locations – where there’s often a bit more room and fewer really narrow lanes.  It helps that we are casual about exactly where we’ll overnight so no big deal if that turns out to be somewhere unexpected, in fact we look forward to that.

 

Love maps – and love satnavs too!

 

 

Best regards

Neill
------------------------------------------------------------
www.motorcaravanning.co.uk 01789-778825 551345165

neill@... motorcaravanning@...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On-line motorhome parts & accessory shop with added information

 

 

 

From: motorhome-list@groups.io [mailto:motorhome-list@groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Reay via Groups.Io
Sent: 09 December 2019 13:15
To: motorhome-list@groups.io
Subject: Re: [motorhome-list] Something to Think About

 

'Senior Management' always tries to track our position, at least when we are in unfamiliar roads on a trip (mainly in Europe) on a map. I find it quite useful. The SatNav is fine, in fact excellent, for immediate directions etc if all is well but, if you hit a problem (eg a major hold up) or just fancy taking a scenic route, you can't beat an old fashioned map etc. 

I also like Google Maps, especially the sat view, to check out routes and approaches to campsites to check for 'tight' spots (we tow a trailer and reversing isn't fun). Plus, even with our Garmin GPS which has the facility to put in the vehicle dimensions, sometimes we've been directed to take routes I'd rather avoid. The Caravan Club is pretty good at including final directions to avoid problems approaching sites, including to sites booked via their European service (at least in France etc). 

I rather doubt we really need to worry about GPS being 'turned off' by the Authorities. True, it could be 'knocked out' but would we be worried about driving around at such a time?

Regards
Brian

timsinc Sinclair
 

On 09/12/2019, Neill King &#92;(MH-List&#92;)
<yahoo@...> wrote:

For a magical mystery tour we often use a map and guidebooks and weather
forecasts to choose a not-too-distant zone to head for and then set the
satnav on shortest while also avoiding motorways.
Almost the same - except no book guides. Plenty on line - especially
sun symbols on weather maps. Being a solo driver, a screen has to be
my navigator.

TimS

Ernest Bull
 

On 9 Dec 2019, at 13:15, Brian Reay via Groups.Io <g8osn@...> wrote:

 The SatNav is fine, in fact excellent, for immediate directions etc if all is well but, if you hit a problem (eg a major hold up) or just fancy taking a scenic route, you can't beat an old fashioned map etc. 

But some - like Garmin https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/traffic/ have Live Traffic to provide a heads up, alternative routes and something approaching that old-fashioned map.

Always worked for me.
_________

ErnB

Sandytrax
 

I’ve probably said this before - I’m a huge fan of google maps app and combined with the searchforsites app I think it’s unbeatable.
But I always have a map to give a wider perspective.
Cheers from sunny Portugal
Brian

Tim Atkinson
 

When we're doing more than a few miles in the van I usually run with two satnavs - both tomtom - the iPad in the vans map holder and the one on my phone on a normal windscreen mount.

Usually the iphone is set to our final goal and the ipad to where we think we might stay that night - strangely even though it's the same software I find the 3d view better on the phone and the 2D view on the ipad.

It's handy to be able to take a windy route through a small french town in at a glance on the ipad.  I also have different voices, male and female as I can then just tune out the instructions I don't want to follow :)

Cheers

--Tim A

On 09/12/2019 18:39, Sandytrax wrote:
I’ve probably said this before - I’m a huge fan of google maps app and combined with the searchforsites app I think it’s unbeatable.
But I always have a map to give a wider perspective.
Cheers from sunny Portugal
Brian

Sandytrax
 

I once tried using Garmin and Googlemaps at the same time. They each wanted to go different ways.
And then my female travelling companion wanted to follow road signs.
Three female voices not recommended!
I’ve also found that female travelling companions like to argue with female satnav voices!

Happy travels!
Brian

On 10 Dec 2019, at 10:02, Tim Atkinson <tim@...> wrote:

When we're doing more than a few miles in the van I usually run with two satnavs - both tomtom - the iPad in the vans map holder and the one on my phone on a normal windscreen mount.

Usually the iphone is set to our final goal and the ipad to where we think we might stay that night - strangely even though it's the same software I find the 3d view better on the phone and the 2D view on the ipad.

It's handy to be able to take a windy route through a small french town in at a glance on the ipad. I also have different voices, male and female as I can then just tune out the instructions I don't want to follow :)

Cheers

--Tim A



On 09/12/2019 18:39, Sandytrax wrote:
I’ve probably said this before - I’m a huge fan of google maps app and combined with the searchforsites app I think it’s unbeatable.
But I always have a map to give a wider perspective.
Cheers from sunny Portugal
Brian

timsinc Sinclair
 

The lovely lady's pitch on TomTom app clearer for me than the male
offering (even once tried for a while John Cleese jokey directions).
Then I'm a solo traveller and only argument includes occasional
swearing on my part.

PS I hate Google maps as a navigator, but do like it for resaerch.

TimS

On 10/12/2019, Sandytrax <brianinspain12@...> wrote:
I once tried using Garmin and Googlemaps at the same time. They each wanted
to go different ways.
And then my female travelling companion wanted to follow road signs.
Three female voices not recommended!
I’ve also found that female travelling companions like to argue with female
satnav voices!

Happy travels!
Brian

On 10 Dec 2019, at 10:02, Tim Atkinson <tim@...> wrote:

When we're doing more than a few miles in the van I usually run with two
satnavs - both tomtom - the iPad in the vans map holder and the one on my
phone on a normal windscreen mount.

Usually the iphone is set to our final goal and the ipad to where we think
we might stay that night - strangely even though it's the same software I
find the 3d view better on the phone and the 2D view on the ipad.

It's handy to be able to take a windy route through a small french town in
at a glance on the ipad. I also have different voices, male and female as
I can then just tune out the instructions I don't want to follow :)

Cheers

--Tim A



On 09/12/2019 18:39, Sandytrax wrote:
I’ve probably said this before - I’m a huge fan of google maps app and
combined with the searchforsites app I think it’s unbeatable.
But I always have a map to give a wider perspective.
Cheers from sunny Portugal
Brian



--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*

Alan Morris
 

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 at 12:16, timsinc Sinclair <timsinc@...> wrote:

PS I hate Google maps as a navigator, but do like it for resaerch.
Before they got niggly about downloading their maps, I got a full set
for the whole of Europe. I use OziExplorer to display them as a
moving map display. Seeing a waypoint come into view on the moving
map, I can display a lot of text information about that waypoint,
including a .jpg image. Helps in deciding if to visit or not this
trip.

I also use Google maps for research as well as many other websites. I
build-up a collection of waypoints using Garmin's BaseCamp
map/database program for each trip I'm planning. Which after fine
tuning and selection end up on my Garmin GPSMAP 276Cx. This displays
all the waypoints and I can use 'Curvy Road' as well as the usual time
or distance method for routing.

A very good feature of BaseCamp is that I can select a waypoint, a few
waypoints or the centre of the screen. Then 'call' Google Earth,
which displays the selection in GE. Ideal to fine tune any location.
i.e. BritStops. Only a postcode area which without extra help while
travelling can be difficult to find the pub etc.

I use a website that can convert a list of postcodes into CSV Name,
Lat, Long. This goes into BaseCamp and with GE I can find the 'point'
and not just an 'area'.

Alan.