Topics

electric motorhome market?

calypso155
 

I wonder if this deal will have any impact / influence on the electric motorhome market? 

https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn 

Cheers,
 
Steve V

Trevor Mace
 

I'd like to see you do the Silk Route in that, Andy!

On 20 Sep 2019, at 03:41, calypso155 <steve-varden@...> wrote:
I wonder if this deal will have any impact / influence on the electric motorhome market? 

https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn 

Cheers,
 
Steve V

Andy Clarke
 

Have to take a generator to keep charging it up!

Andy Clarke

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 08:33, Trevor Mace <trevor@...> wrote:
I'd like to see you do the Silk Route in that, Andy!

On 20 Sep 2019, at 03:41, calypso155 <steve-varden@...> wrote:
I wonder if this deal will have any impact / influence on the electric motorhome market? 

https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn 

Cheers,
 
Steve V

Ernest Bull
 

On 20 Sep 2019, at 02:40, calypso155 <Steve-Varden@...> wrote:

I wonder if this deal will have any impact / influence on the electric motorhome market? 

I have seen refs: to hybrid motorhomes - maybe Hymer/Mercedes??? And there is an interesting article at https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/articles/practical-advice/running-a-motorhome-alternatives-to-diesel

Note the bit, ignored by many MPs and councils clamouring for complete diesel bans, that, on the whole, diesels are less polluting that petrol engines of the same age. The fact that led them to be so popular with them a decade or so ago.
_______

ErnB


timsinc Sinclair
 

It will happen - eventually. Biggest hurdle, though, is that
motorhomers like to go huge distances, as opposed to delivery vans.

Tim

On 20/09/2019, calypso155 <Steve-Varden@...> wrote:
I wonder if this deal will have any impact / influence on the electric
motorhome market?

https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn
(
https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn
)

Cheers,

Steve V



--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*

Bennett Family
 

Friends of mine drove their Tesla to Switzerland & back - said they had no problems - the car finds a charging station when it needs a recharge. They had a coffee & a read for 30 minutes then were off again.

Martin

On 20 Sep 2019, at 10:00, timsinc Sinclair via Groups.Io <timsinc=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

It will happen - eventually. Biggest hurdle, though, is that
motorhomers like to go huge distances, as opposed to delivery vans.

Tim

On 20/09/2019, calypso155 <Steve-Varden@...> wrote:
I wonder if this deal will have any impact / influence on the electric
motorhome market?

https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn
(
https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn
)

Cheers,

Steve V




--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*


timsinc Sinclair
 

That sounds promising, Martin. But, as it stands at present, I'd be
having to plan/set satnav for charging points as well as overnight
stops as well as allowing for longer 'comfort breaks'. I bet that on
my preferred country routes (as opposed to tolls and m-ways) there'll
be far less places to plug in.

It will happen one day, when all the everywhere diesel pumps have been
converted into charging points.

Tim

On 20/09/2019, Bennett Family <martin@...> wrote:
Friends of mine drove their Tesla to Switzerland & back - said they had no
problems - the car finds a charging station when it needs a recharge. They
had a coffee & a read for 30 minutes then were off again.

Martin

On 20 Sep 2019, at 10:00, timsinc Sinclair via Groups.Io
<timsinc=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

It will happen - eventually. Biggest hurdle, though, is that
motorhomers like to go huge distances, as opposed to delivery vans.

Tim

On 20/09/2019, calypso155 <Steve-Varden@...> wrote:
I wonder if this deal will have any impact / influence on the electric
motorhome market?

https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn
(
https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn
)

Cheers,

Steve V




--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*




--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*

Bennett Family
 

Didn’t appear to require much planning as car finds its own way to the charging points. Although I’m sure they used motorways. Their daughter lives near Forres, Scotland and they get there & back with no problems. The vehicle impressively reversed out of our drive with no driver input.
They also have a Hymer for more mundane trips although they are currently heading to a wedding in Palestine via bus, Rail & sea - they’d reached Bari yesterday!

Martin

On 20 Sep 2019, at 11:30, timsinc Sinclair via Groups.Io <timsinc=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

That sounds promising, Martin. But, as it stands at present, I'd be
having to plan/set satnav for charging points as well as overnight
stops as well as allowing for longer 'comfort breaks'. I bet that on
my preferred country routes (as opposed to tolls and m-ways) there'll
be far less places to plug in.

It will happen one day, when all the everywhere diesel pumps have been
converted into charging points.

Tim

On 20/09/2019, Bennett Family <martin@...> wrote:
Friends of mine drove their Tesla to Switzerland & back - said they had no
problems - the car finds a charging station when it needs a recharge. They
had a coffee & a read for 30 minutes then were off again.

Martin

On 20 Sep 2019, at 10:00, timsinc Sinclair via Groups.Io
<timsinc=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

It will happen - eventually. Biggest hurdle, though, is that
motorhomers like to go huge distances, as opposed to delivery vans.

Tim

On 20/09/2019, calypso155 <Steve-Varden@...> wrote:
I wonder if this deal will have any impact / influence on the electric
motorhome market?

https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn
(
https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn
)

Cheers,

Steve V




--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*





--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*


Neill King \(MH-List\)
 

There is an attractive way forward but possibly not one politicians will go for enabling! The recently trialled Transit Van using all-electric drive with batteries topped up by a small (and always efficiently running) petrol engine used solely for charging seems to have been something of a success. That wouldn't need a great deal more development to make a decent motorhome.

The alternative big-batteries solution to bridge the gap between rural charging points has a major drawback - it reduces available payload and hugely so on a 3.5t chassis. To some extent (only) that can be offset by using hi-tech lighter weight batteries but then the huge cost of replacement, in maybe 3-5 years, becomes a significant deterrent too.

None of this of much interest to a Tesla owner of course!

Best regards

Neill
----------------------------------------------
www.motorcaravanning.co.uk 01789-778825 551345165
neill@... motorcaravanning@...
---------------------------------------------------------
A great on-line motorhome parts & accessory shop & reference

-----Original Message-----
From: motorhome-list@groups.io [mailto:motorhome-list@groups.io] On Behalf Of timsinc Sinclair
Sent: 20 September 2019 10:00
To: motorhome-list@groups.io
Subject: Re: [motorhome-list] electric motorhome market?

It will happen - eventually. Biggest hurdle, though, is that
motorhomers like to go huge distances, as opposed to delivery vans.

Tim

On 20/09/2019, calypso155 <Steve-Varden@...> wrote:
I wonder if this deal will have any impact / influence on the electric
motorhome market?

https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn
(
https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn
)

Cheers,

Steve V




--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*

timsinc Sinclair
 

All sounds very eco impressive, Martin, especially and as well as the
voyaging adventures of your friends. But that's just it: where is the
adventure in my camper finding its way to a plug? Reversing itself off
the pitch? (I do have a couple of dings in rear bumper!)

In a way, I'm glad that my age probably means that I'll not see having
a home-on-wheels in robot form. I like the freedom to make a wrong
turning, to land up at the unexpected - how I've come across some
interesting routes and campsites.

TimS

On 20/09/2019, Bennett Family <martin@...> wrote:
Didn’t appear to require much planning as car finds its own way to the
charging points. Although I’m sure they used motorways. Their daughter lives
near Forres, Scotland and they get there & back with no problems. The
vehicle impressively reversed out of our drive with no driver input.
They also have a Hymer for more mundane trips although they are currently
heading to a wedding in Palestine via bus, Rail & sea - they’d reached Bari
yesterday!

Martin

On 20 Sep 2019, at 11:30, timsinc Sinclair via Groups.Io
<timsinc=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

That sounds promising, Martin. But, as it stands at present, I'd be
having to plan/set satnav for charging points as well as overnight
stops as well as allowing for longer 'comfort breaks'. I bet that on
my preferred country routes (as opposed to tolls and m-ways) there'll
be far less places to plug in.

It will happen one day, when all the everywhere diesel pumps have been
converted into charging points.

Tim

On 20/09/2019, Bennett Family <martin@...> wrote:
Friends of mine drove their Tesla to Switzerland & back - said they had
no
problems - the car finds a charging station when it needs a recharge.
They
had a coffee & a read for 30 minutes then were off again.

Martin

On 20 Sep 2019, at 10:00, timsinc Sinclair via Groups.Io
<timsinc=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

It will happen - eventually. Biggest hurdle, though, is that
motorhomers like to go huge distances, as opposed to delivery vans.

Tim

On 20/09/2019, calypso155 <Steve-Varden@...> wrote:
I wonder if this deal will have any impact / influence on the electric
motorhome market?

https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn
(
https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/1298/amazon-rivian-deal-online-retailer-orders-100000-electric-vans-5bn
)

Cheers,

Steve V




--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*





--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*




--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*

David
 

Came across this article the other day which may be of interest: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/audi-e-tron-test-drive-review

These guys drove 1000 miles in (a little over) 24hrs but had to "cheat" in Italy 

timsinc Sinclair
 

Can anyone, perhaps those with engineering bent, tell me why they
haven't thought of putting a small, bladeless wind turbine behind
front grill to make use of the wind created when travelling above
40mph?
Probably some law of physics that says the energy to travel at speed
to create wind far exceeds that produced by such a generator. Still,
I'd have thought it would help top up batteries, just as is done by
harnessing brake power.

TimS

On 21/09/2019, David <david.saltydawg@...> wrote:
Came across this article the other day which may be of interest:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/audi-e-tron-test-drive-review

These guys drove 1000 miles in (a little over) 24hrs but had to "cheat" in
Italy



--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*

David Scholes
 

Hi Tim.

No such thing as free energy. A fan would slow you down more than the energy gained except if you are going downhill when the slowing down replaces braking.
Energy from braking is conversion of momentum (kinetic energy) into battery charging (chemical energy). Or same when going downhill and you brake. But it is not about creating free energy which is impossible, it is just about converting waste energy into stored energy for reuse.

David

On 21 Sep 2019, at 09:43, timsinc Sinclair <timsinc@...> wrote:

Can anyone, perhaps those with engineering bent, tell me why they
haven't thought of putting a small, bladeless wind turbine behind
front grill to make use of the wind created when travelling above
40mph?
Probably some law of physics that says the energy to travel at speed
to create wind far exceeds that produced by such a generator. Still,
I'd have thought it would help top up batteries, just as is done by
harnessing brake power.

TimS

On 21/09/2019, David <david.saltydawg@...> wrote:
Came across this article the other day which may be of interest:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/audi-e-tron-test-drive-review

These guys drove 1000 miles in (a little over) 24hrs but had to "cheat" in
Italy




--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*


Neill King \(MH-List\)
 

Law of physics yes - but how about 'you don't get owt for nowt' ?!

A static van can take advantage of the energy in wind driven by weather systems but collecting energy by movement of the van itself will inevitably cost more in fuel than you gain in electricity.

Best way to do that is via the alternator (which also results in more fuel used).

Best regards

Neill
----------------------------------------------
www.motorcaravanning.co.uk 01789-778825 551345165
neill@... motorcaravanning@...
---------------------------------------------------------
A great on-line motorhome parts & accessory shop & reference

-----Original Message-----
From: motorhome-list@groups.io [mailto:motorhome-list@groups.io] On Behalf Of timsinc Sinclair
Sent: 21 September 2019 09:44
To: motorhome-list@groups.io
Subject: Re: [motorhome-list] electric motorhome market?

Can anyone, perhaps those with engineering bent, tell me why they
haven't thought of putting a small, bladeless wind turbine behind
front grill to make use of the wind created when travelling above
40mph?
Probably some law of physics that says the energy to travel at speed
to create wind far exceeds that produced by such a generator. Still,
I'd have thought it would help top up batteries, just as is done by
harnessing brake power.

TimS

On 21/09/2019, David <david.saltydawg@...> wrote:
Came across this article the other day which may be of interest:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/audi-e-tron-test-drive-review

These guys drove 1000 miles in (a little over) 24hrs but had to "cheat" in
Italy




--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*

timsinc Sinclair
 

Thanks Neil. Decided not to patent my idea. Despite coasting downhill
against the wind and thinking what a waste of energy - which happened
already to be cutting my mpg.

TimS

On 21/09/2019, Neill King &#92;(MH-List&#92;)
<yahoo@...> wrote:
Law of physics yes - but how about 'you don't get owt for nowt' ?!

A static van can take advantage of the energy in wind driven by weather
systems but collecting energy by movement of the van itself will inevitably
cost more in fuel than you gain in electricity.

Best way to do that is via the alternator (which also results in more fuel
used).

Best regards

Neill
----------------------------------------------
www.motorcaravanning.co.uk 01789-778825 551345165
neill@... motorcaravanning@...
---------------------------------------------------------
A great on-line motorhome parts & accessory shop & reference




-----Original Message-----
From: motorhome-list@groups.io [mailto:motorhome-list@groups.io] On Behalf
Of timsinc Sinclair
Sent: 21 September 2019 09:44
To: motorhome-list@groups.io
Subject: Re: [motorhome-list] electric motorhome market?

Can anyone, perhaps those with engineering bent, tell me why they
haven't thought of putting a small, bladeless wind turbine behind
front grill to make use of the wind created when travelling above
40mph?
Probably some law of physics that says the energy to travel at speed
to create wind far exceeds that produced by such a generator. Still,
I'd have thought it would help top up batteries, just as is done by
harnessing brake power.

TimS

On 21/09/2019, David <david.saltydawg@...> wrote:
Came across this article the other day which may be of interest:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/audi-e-tron-test-drive-review

These guys drove 1000 miles in (a little over) 24hrs but had to "cheat"
in
Italy




--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*







--

*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*

Ernest Bull
 

On 21 Sep 2019, at 09:43, timsinc Sinclair <timsinc@...> wrote:

Can anyone, perhaps those with engineering bent, tell me why they
haven't thought of putting a small, bladeless wind turbine behind
front grill to make use of the wind created when travelling above
40mph?
Probably some law of physics that says the energy to travel at speed
to create wind far exceeds that produced by such a generator. Still,
I'd have thought it would help top up batteries, just as is done by
harnessing brake power.

You are not far out with your own assessment, Tim. Basically the engine is producing the wind by moving the vehicle and the wind turbine simply adds to the overall drag. It would be a little like having a fan to make wind turbines generate if there was no wind. 

Better, but only producing a charge in daylight or under a streetlight, would be flexible solar panels. Works in daylight when parked or moving and fitted properly would produce no additional drag. MH roofs were made for them. Going by this site: - 
The average MH roof could easily host 500W of panels and many could even carry 1kW. Brilliant. And so cheap. My 100W panel cost over £600 back in ’06 or ’07. 
_______

ErnB

M Stevenson
 

Hi folks,

Made my day. 😁

"Can anyone, perhaps those with engineering bent, tell me why they
haven't thought of putting a small, bladeless wind turbine behind
front grill to make use of the wind created when travelling above
40mph?
Probably some law of physics."

Nice try, but perhaps not.
Bit like a fan on the back of a sail boat to drive it forward.

Mind you, I'm not so sure the current vogue for battery vehicles doesn't come into the same category as dodgy physics. ( Great economics though. )

Until ALL electricity is generated from renewable sources, this replacement of existing fuel driven vehicles with electricity is a bit disingenuous. The amount of energy required to build them will be far in excess of an existing motorhome's likely consumption and produce more greenhouse gases.

How many kW of gas (this is still the most used and profitable for generating companies in this country) energy is needed to create 1kW of energy at the wheels. Given the efficiency and transmission losses at each stage of this process it is likely to be far worse than burning diesel as needed.

The old argument about pollution is much reduced given that the particulate filters on modern engines are now very efficient.
All vehicles are still going to produce particulates from tyres, brakes and road dirt.

As a diehard cynic, perhaps 'they' need to sell us more new technology/vehicles because the old stuff is lasting too long?

Waste?

Max

Alan Morris
 

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 at 08:43, timsinc Sinclair <timsinc@...> wrote:

Can anyone, perhaps those with engineering bent, tell me why they
haven't thought of putting a small, bladeless wind turbine behind
front grill to make use of the wind created when travelling above
40mph?
It won't work because it is the blades that catch the wind. No blades
= no turning motion.

Alan.

Ernest Bull
 

On 22 Sep 2019, at 14:19, M Stevenson <atcop.co@...> wrote:

Nice try, but perhaps not. 
Bit like a fan on the back of a sail boat to drive it forward.

Exactly, Max, and you highlight the difficulties facing those seeking solutions. So many seemingly good ideas are seriously flawed by basic science and yet still sound so good that they gain universal support and appeal.

Everyone thought that we had hit the jackpot when the Queen opened Calder Hall. I well remember the speculation at the time. Football sized reactors to power our cars was one of the ideas. Now, as most of the world’s reactors are by the sea and vulnerable to rising sea levels, we worry, not only that they will go off-line, but that, shades of Fukushima, without proper decommissioning, our oceans will become radioactive.

But very few consider the simple fact that no matter how many emissions free GWatts they produce, they are very unlikely to “pay off” the deficit in emissions created by their construction. And no matter what the promises, not a single laid off reactor site has ever been properly decommissioned back to green field status.

AAA, I heard an “expert” recently who was saying that extinguishing these climate change induced wildfires was wrong. That putting them out only left massive quantities of unburned timber and vegetation that would create an even bigger fire hazard.

And as every single hour passes, the earth receives enough solar energy to power the entire planet for one whole year. The US Dept. of Energy calculates that as 430 Quintillion Joules. That’s 430 and 18 zeros. And a hell of a lot of Gw!
________

ErnB

Ernest Bull
 

On 23 Sep 2019, at 04:45, Ernest Bull via Groups.Io <ernb32=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Exactly, Max, …..
Sorry! Didn’t realise it was MH list.
________

ErnB