Date   

Re: THE SCHENGEN SHUFFLE

Mick Potter
 

Thanks Carol, I'll wade through this when I've got time.  (The images get lost in the email I got - they are there if you look on the io website.)
 
Does anyone know if it will be possible to just get a visa that would allow longer time in Schengen?  A multi-entry 5 year visa, say, wouldn't be too much trouble.
 
In normal times, we do a couple of trips each year, normally 2-3 months, so would probably be OK with 90out of 180, but we only book our return when we're ready to come home, and it would be nice not to have to worry about the odd few days.
 
Does anyone know someone with a travelling job that requires a lot of time in Schengen?  They, or their company, may have solved this.
 
Mick



Re: THE SCHENGEN SHUFFLE

timsinc Sinclair
 

Brexit with now Schengen rules and of course Covid are reshaping our
lives in every way. Down to such as where can we even find a pitch in
coming crowded days.

Locked up in lockdowns gives one time to reflect. In doing so, I've
decided to pull the plug on full-timing after three years. Mind you,
chasing bricks 'n mortar living involves equal Schengen-like
navigation! Whatever wherever, a camper will be on my drive. Ninety
days enough for me to escape south from our worst winter months.

TimS

On 15/03/2021, Carol Weaver <corconx@gmail.com> wrote:
Friends have spent the weekend trying to get their heads around the new (?)
Schengen rule of 90/180 in Europe

They themselves are full timers in their 5th year so more important for
them. However it impacts on our normal twice annual trips for normally 8
weeks each at our chosen dates. As our 112days all fall within the 180
days. So need some looking at

I thought you might also like to read it

Carol

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Carol Weaver <no-reply-content@evernote.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2021 at 18:33
Subject: THE SCHENGEN SHUFFLE
To: <corconx@gmail.com>
Cc: <carol@carolweaver.co.uk>


share it
THE SCHENGEN SHUFFLE

Mention the word Schengen to most people and it will be received with a
mixture of anger and frustration. We’ve been trying to come to terms with
our travel restriction for a few years, although on 1 January 2021 it
became real. Irrespective of your Brexit opinions it is here to stay and
Schengen rules now apply to us if we want to cross into Europe.

We have decided to put pen to paper after seeing far too much confusion on
our *Motoroamers’ Chat Room
<https://www.facebook.com/groups/616229685606823>* in particular. It’s odd,
I so thought we had ‘got it’ although one particular post challenged my
thinking and got me into a right old panic. So we had two days doing more
research, looking for blogs and trying to get clarity. Myles even built a
spreadsheet so he could get it clear in his own mind. The one thing that I
noticed was there was little by way of blogs relevant to motorhomers
looking to extend their stays in Europe. So the culmination of our tears,
tantrums and stress is this blog with the specific intention of providing
information for those of us who want to do the Schengen Shuffle without
risking getting a fine.

We realise that it’s a bit of a risk going public as you are so open to
criticism although we wouldn’t do it unless we were totally comfortable in
our information. So we offer our research, explanations and presentation in
an attempt to help you. With examples of how trips might look, we want to
give you knowledge and confidence in the Schengen processes. Although
please we ask you to do your own calculations relevant to your trips. This
blog is just to get us all clear on what we can and can’t do and all the
terminology that seems to set out to confuse and get us tearing out our
hair.

We also acknowledge that although Schengen is a reality for us right now
sat in 2021, because of Covid travel restrictions have created a double
whammy for us. So few of us as yet have been able to put all this into
action. Please refer to the examples as hypothetical as we are currently
not allowed to travel anywhere at the moment. (@March/2021). This is how
the blog will shape up.
*Table of Contents* hide
<https://motoroaming.com/the-schengen-shuffle-for-motorhome-travellers/#>

What is Schengen and what does it mean for us as motorhomers?
<https://motoroaming.com/the-schengen-shuffle-for-motorhome-travellers/#What_is_Schengen_and_what_does_it_mean_for_us_as_motorhomers>
Schengen Terminology made simple
<https://motoroaming.com/the-schengen-shuffle-for-motorhome-travellers/#Schengen_Terminology_made_simple>
Schengen/Non Schengen Map
<https://motoroaming.com/the-schengen-shuffle-for-motorhome-travellers/#SchengenNon_Schengen_Map>
Schengen Shuffle Scenarios
<https://motoroaming.com/the-schengen-shuffle-for-motorhome-travellers/#Schengen_Shuffle_Scenarios>
Easy Schengen Trip – Out for 90 and back for 90
<https://motoroaming.com/the-schengen-shuffle-for-motorhome-travellers/#Easy_Schengen_Trip_-_Out_for_90_and_back_for_90>
Schengen Shuffle – Travelling for 11 months out of UK
<https://motoroaming.com/the-schengen-shuffle-for-motorhome-travellers/#Schengen_Shuffle_-_Travelling_for_11_months_out_of_UK>
Schengen Allowance and Date Calculators
<https://motoroaming.com/the-schengen-shuffle-for-motorhome-travellers/#Schengen_Allowance_and_Date_Calculators>
Schengen Top Tips
<https://motoroaming.com/the-schengen-shuffle-for-motorhome-travellers/#Schengen_Top_Tips>

*What is Schengen and what does it mean for us as motorhomers?*
Schengen is the term used to describe the treaty that lead to a
passport-free zone that currently covers 26 countries across the European
continent. It was created on June 14 1985 resulting in individual countries
ending border controls between members. The vision was to build ‘a Europe
without borders’ creating a concept of free-movement. Five years later the
Schengen agreement was implemented although in reality the policies and
rules didn’t come into force until 26 March 1995. After this the Schengen
agreement grew with more countries joining the original five members. And
now 26 countries are part of the Schengen Area.

The essence of Schengen is that within the continent it abolishes border
controls and the need for passports to cross from one country into another.
This of course is favourable for those countries within the Schengen club.
For all other countries outside of the Area, restrictions are imposed to
the amount we can travel visa-free through the member countries. This has
implications for us as we have now left the EU meaning we become a third
nation country. We will be restricted to a 90 day limit in any 180 days.
More on this shortly. At borders after leaving the UK, our passage into
Schengen will be recorded either electronically and/or via a stamp on our
Passport. It means that we will need to plan our trips more carefully to
ensure that we don’t overstay our visit to the Schengen. At the moment we
don’t have any data to state what the fines would be for exceeding our
limit although we need to expect some sort of penalty. It is reported that
different countries impose different fines and that won’t become clear for
us until we are once again allowed to travel outside of the UK.

Currently 62 countries, including the UK can visit the Schengen zone for
business or travel reasons without the requirement of a visa. In order for
the Schengen countries to control security there is an electronic
application called an *ETIAS <https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias>*
<https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias>planned for launch by end of 2022.
This ETIAS enables citizens of third countries such as UK to enter Schengen
without the need for a visa. So the good news is that we are visa-exempt
for entering the Schengen area for up to 90 days. We will provide more
information on this when implementation dates are announced. Although for
the time being no ETIAS is required for our entry into Schengen.
*Schengen Terminology made simple*
*Schengen country *– Is a country who has signed up to the Schengen
Agreement and thereby allowing freedom of movement across their borders.
Visiting each of these countries means that we can only spend 90 days in
each rolling 180 day period.

*Non-EU Schengen country* – There are members of Schengen who are not part
of the EU such as Switzerland, Iceland, Norway and Lichtenstein although
have for economic reasons decided to sign up to the Schengen Agreement.

*Non Schengen country* – There are *three* types of non Schengen countries.
The first is Ireland who has opted out of being in Schengen meaning that we
can visit without needing a passport or it affecting our 90 day allowance.
The second are countries who are part of Europe although who are not part
of Schengen such as Bosnia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Russia and
Ukraine. The third are countries outside of Europe that we are able to
access for up to 90 days that include Turkey, Cyprus and Morocco.

*Pending Schengen countries* – It’s important to set these countries apart
from other non-Schengen countries as their membership is currently pending
and under review. So Bulgaria, Romania and Croatia are expected to join at
some point in the future, although for now we are able to travel around
these countries for up to 90 days, without it affecting our Schengen
allowance.

*Microstate de facto principalities* – Aside of all these categories there
are also four microstates that are principalities with a small population
and few natural resources that whilst in Europe are not in Schengen. They
are known as de facto countries and we are able to visit these countries
without it affecting our allowance. They are San Marino, Vatican City,
Andorra and Monaco.

*Third Nation* – This is the description used for countries that are
outside of the EU. UK is now recognised as a third country following our
exit from Europe on 1/1/21.

*ETIAS* – This is the European Travel Information and Authorisation System.
Similar to the system required to enter US, at the back end of 2022 it is
expected that we will have to register an Etias prior to entering the
Schengen zone. It will cost around €7 per application.

*Rolling 180 days* – This is one of the key elements of Schengen that is
most misunderstood and yet so critical to our plans to Schengen Shuffle.
Schengen is like an escalator; always moving, rolling. So not like a
calendar where the months are static. The 180 days will move according to
when you want to enter and exit from the area and it is a counting back
exercise from those dates. I will talk more about this, although see your
available time as moving and not static and this will ease your planning
pain immensely.

*Schengen entry and exit points* – These dates are really important to us
in getting our allowance accurate. Your *entry date* is the day you *leave*
the
UK (or a non Schengen country) and make your journey to a Schengen country
and this counts as *DAY 1* of your 90 days. Even if you leave the UK at
6.00pm at night, you must still count this as 1 day in Schengen,
irrespective of the hours you have stepped onto Schengen soil. Your *exit
date* is the day leave Schengen and move outside of the zone, either
returning back to the UK or moving into a non Schengen country. This is
also counted as *1 DAY,* irrespective of the time you leave the Schengen
area.

*Schengen allowance* – This is the second key element that we have to get
our heads around. Understanding how our allowance works and more
importantly how to calculate days spent in the zone is vital, to both your
sanity and your noiseless navigation around Europe. So here we go. We have
90 days available within any 180 day period – as we know from above. We
also know that this 180 day period is a moving beast and not static. So
every time we enter and exit Schengen we must look behind us to see how
many days we have already used up. There are two ways to look at this;

*You want to visit Schengen although have no pre-determined duration for
your trip at this point* – you just want to go for as long as possible and
want to establish how long that might be. So you take your *entry* point to
Schengen, so let’s say 17 May 2021 and now work backwards 180 days, which
takes you to 18 November 2021. *How many days have you already had in
Schengen and therefore how many can you now use for your trip?*

*You have a specific period of time you want to visit Schengen, so let’s
say 60 days*. Now you know both your *entry* date and *exit* date. Using
the same example as above, this means that you want to leave the UK on 17
May and leave Schengen on 16 July 2021. Use your exit date and count back
180 days which takes you to 17 January 2021. Now you can see how much of
your 90 day allowance you will have used including this trip and therefore
see if being away for 60 days is achievable given your allowance.

*Schengen/Non Schengen Map*
Understanding which countries we can and cannot visit is imperative to us
as we plan our European road-trips. So hopefully this visual map will help
to grasp how to Schengen shuffle.


There are a few points to make on this map; the originator of the map
<https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-countries-list/?fbclid=IwAR3KGZUHdWl00Epc8iWKBsUSDq5BrKvME0eFnGEXcUTGi5wLwxr4iopTaWY#:~:text=The%20European%20countries%20that%20are,United%20Kingdom%20and%20Vatican%20City>
didn’t
differentiate Andorra, San Marino, Monaco or the Vatican City I guess
because they were too small to annotate. So whilst these for all intents
and purposes look like they belong to the Schengen area – they don’t. We
can travel here Schengen free and save some days from our allowance. So for
skiers this might make Andorra a strong possibility.

Ok, so as you will see from this map, it clearly shows those areas that are
defined by the Schengen agreement and allows us to plan where we can and
can’t go travel to. So first of all those *countries that are purple* are
currently in the Schengen zone and means that we are restricted to 90 days
in our rolling 180 days and so careful planning is required here to avoid
any penalties for overstaying our welcome. More on this later.

*The blue countries* are those who are not in Europe although for economic
reasons have decided that being part of the Schengen Agreement is important
for their countries. So travel here impacts on our Schengen allowance and
must be treated in the same way as the purple countries.

*The green areas*; the first is Ireland which has opted out of Schengen and
the second are those countries currently with their application to Schengen
pending. So for now we can travel here *without* having to use our Schengen
allowance. Which is great news.

And finally* the grey countries *are those that are not part of Schengen
and are known as Third Nations. So in theory we can travel here without our
Schengen allowance being affected. Clearly we will have unlimited travel
through UK and Northern Ireland whilst a trip to Turkey and Morocco will be
allowed for up to 90 days. So this has some terrific opportunities for
those of us wanting to do the Schengen Shuffle especially during the
winter.


*Schengen Shuffle Scenarios*
I think to really bring Schengen to life in a clear and non-scary way, we
need to create some scenarios for you that will help you work out how your
trips might look. So below we illustrate some options and how to calculate
the days so you can dance your way around Europe without risking a Schengen
penalty. For each of these scenarios, let’s assume that because of
lockdown, none of us have been into the Schengen zone because of our
lockdown periods.
*Easy Schengen Trip – Out for 90 and back for 90*
The easiest Schengen scenario is where you simply decide to leave the UK
and head to Europe for up to 90 days and then come back to the UK for 90
days and then head out again for another 90 day block. There is little
complication here as there is no Schengen Shuffling going on. You simply
leave the UK on 17 May 2021 and enjoy your Schengen countries for a full 90
days and then return on 14 August. That means that you can return to
Schengen again for 90 days on 13 November. This calculator image below
demonstrates this nicely.




*Schengen Shuffle – Travelling for 11 months out of UK *
Now we start to dance our way through Schengen and begin our shuffle. So
you want to spend most of your time in Europe and perhaps not too much time
in the UK. Given that most us need an annual MOT, coming back to the UK is
necessary, although with some careful planning you can be out of the UK for
up to 11 months. We have shown you an example of how to do this using a
trip down to Greece, over to Turkey and then back through Bulgaria and
Romania. You could of course map the same sort of trip to include Morocco
or Croatia (until the latter’s membership is approved.)

You leave on 17 May and decide on just 80 days in Schengen so that you have
a 10 day buffer should you need to get back to the UK in an emergency.
(Bear in mind that if you did 90 in Schengen and then went to Turkey and
something happened back home then you have no days available in your
allowance to return to the UK. You would have to leave your van in Turkey
and fly back. So just as an insurance policy, it is worth having a little
buffer period if your circumstances back in the UK drive it.)

On 4 August you cross into Turkey and stay for up to 90 days. After which
you return to Greece and take two days to travel to Bulgaria where with
Romania you can tour for 90 days per country if you wish. For the purposes
of our exercise I have shown 90 days in total for the two countries leaving
Romania for Hungary where we re-enter the Schengen on 1 February. We now
have a totally of 88 days to return to the UK allowing us to meander
through Austria, Germany and France.


To illustrate this one further step; if you look at each of your exit dates
and go back 180 days you can calculate how many days you have spent in
Schengen. This is how it looks in practice;




- *4 August 2021 exit date* – go back 180 days takes you to *5 February
2021*. You have no Schengen allowance to consider in this period.
- Your next Schengen entry and exit points are 2 and 3 November 2021. Go
back from *3 November 2021*180 days takes you to *7 May 2021*. During
this period (which remember is a rolling 180 day period) you have used
80
days, so you have 10 left.
- Your next entry and exit points are 1 Feb and 29 April 2022. So again
from your *29 April* date go back 180 days, which takes you to *31
October 2021* where you have used 2 days, therefore your planned 88 days
can be used to return back to the UK.



There are obviously lots of other options we could illustrate, although
hopefully seeing how we could have 11 months out of the UK should give you
some confidence to begin planning your own trips. The bottom line to
remember is that if you shuffle your way from Schengen into Romania,
Bulgaria, Croatia, Morocco or Turkey, then you can have an extended trip
out of the UK and still get back in time for your MOT. Obviously in the
examples that we have given above, it doesn’t take into account weather
conditions that might influence your decisions and the dates are just
illustrative. Also as a disclaimer, we must stress that it is vital for you
to do your own calculations and planning to ensure that the trip you decide
upon is doable without penalty.
*Schengen Allowance and Date Calculators *
As we have navigated our way around this topic both for our own trips
abroad and also for this blog, we have come across some great tools that
will keep you sane, safe and in allowance, which we profile here.


The first essential tool is the *Visa Calculator.
<https://visa-calculator.com/> *This is our preferred calculator tool as it
is clearer and easier to use. The calculator allows you to input your entry
and exit date to Schengen and then it calculates when you must have left
the area to prevent penalties. It also allows you to map in multiple trips,
which is great. So no paper calculations are needed as in our experience
they can lead to mis-planning. We strongly urge you to if not plan with
this tool at the very least use it to check your predictions.

The second tool we found incredibly helpful is the *Date Calculator.
<https://www.timeanddate.com/>* Trying to work out what 180 days back can
be tricky even using your Phone’s calendar. So make life simple and use
this site instead. It allows you to put in a date and then either add or
subtract the desired number of days. It is terrific and makes life simpler,
quicker and far less stressful than the classic ’30 days has September,
April, June and November’.

I have saved both of these websites on my phone and popped them into a
folder called Schengen so that I have easy access to them. You can do this
too by going into their websites and tapping the three horizontal lines on
the bottom right of your screen. Then you press *Add page to* and you can
put it on your home screen.


*Schengen Top Tips*
This final section is more of a hypothetic section given that at the time
of writing, we have not been able to travel and put our knowledge into
practise. That said I think for now, there are some planning tips that we
can offer you to help you navigate your Schengen Shuffle more easily.


1. Perhaps the flexibility of travel may be jaded by Schengen with
intuitive right turns limited under the restrictions. Although there is
no
reason why, certainly for now, we shouldn’t be able to enjoy full and
rich
travels through Europe. We just need to plan a little more precisely
than
we have in the past. Travel is still possible and so keep your minds
positive and upbeat.
2. Avoid going to the edge of your allowance. 90 days might be alluring,
although in any plans we need to cater for the unforeseen such as family
crises, illness, breakdowns and incidents and our Schengen Shuffling is
no
different. Make sure you give yourself some scope for emergencies or
things
that you hadn’t catered for. Don’t risk getting penalties for having to
overstay because of that breakdown that cost you five days you hadn’t
allowed for in your plans.
3. Make sure if you visit Turkey and *Morocco
<https://motoroaming.com/magical-mystery-tour-of-morocco-by-motorhome/>*
you
will need to get additional insurance. We have recently found out that
Comfort have suspended their Morocco and Turkey cover. So sadly unless
Aviva’s policy changes, we will be leaving for Saga in December. Make
sure
that you provide the specific dates to your insurers of your stay in
these
two countries so that they can send you the Green Card that is a
requirement. For more information on Morocco, check out our free *Ebook

<https://motoroaming.com/magical-mystery-tour-of-morocco-by-motorhome/>*which
gives you more essential information about your entry to this exciting
African country.
4. Make sure that your passports have at least 6 months left on them
otherwise you may be prevented from travelling outside of the UK. Also
make
sure that you get a stamp from the Border Control to show your entry and
exit points. Whilst it should all be automated, for us this is still so
new, a stamp will prevent any disputes along the line.
5. When you use the calculator to plan your trips, especially if they
are multiple, take a screen shot and save it on your phone so if there
is
again any dispute you can demonstrate your dates using the calculator.
6. Remember when travelling to the continent there are restrictions on
the food you are allowed and prohibited to bring in. Check this *website

<https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/meat-dairy-animal/index_en.htm#:~:text=If%20you%20travel%20to%20the,fish%20products%20are%20also%20allowed.>*
for
the specifics otherwise you risk these items being confiscated.
7. If you travel with pets, you should look to explore getting an EU Pet
Passport otherwise you will be restricted to just 4 months in Schengen
and
non Schengen countries using the UK’s Pet Passport scheme.
8. Keep your eyes open for Visa Extension information from each Schengen
country. Whilst there are visas that you can apply for, for work
purposes,
there are few that cover tourism extensions. This may change as Covid
restrictions are lifted and countries want to encourage UK travellers
back
into their countries. Although at the time of writing there are no
immediate plans for this to be offered.



So this brings us to the end of our Schengen Shuffle guide. We hope that is
has helped demystify some of the terms used and the confusions that have
been building around what we can and can’t do. The bottom line that travel
is still possible and more than perhaps we thought possible. So we hope
that this will all feel hopeful and positive for you.

If you have any questions please drop us an email at
themotoroamers@gmail.com and we will endeavour to answer them.

This blog is a participant in the CJ, AWIN and AMAZON Services LLC
Associates programme. These programmes provide a means for sites to earn
advertising fees by linking to affiliates. This means if you happen to
click on a link and buy something we may make a really small and we mean
really small commission that may help with the costs of running the site.
This in no way affects your purchase price. All images and content are
copyrighted and belong to the Motoroamers @ www.motoroaming.com

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*It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end*


THE SCHENGEN SHUFFLE

Carol Weaver
 

Friends have spent the weekend trying to get their heads around the new (?) Schengen rule of 90/180 in Europe 

They themselves are full timers in their 5th year so more important for them. However it impacts on our normal twice annual trips for normally 8 weeks each at our chosen dates. As our 112days all fall within the 180 days. So need some looking at

I thought you might also like to read it

Carol

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Carol Weaver <no-reply-content@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2021 at 18:33
Subject: THE SCHENGEN SHUFFLE
To: <corconx@...>
Cc: <carol@...>


share it
THE SCHENGEN SHUFFLE

Mention the word Schengen to most people and it will be received with a mixture of anger and frustration. We’ve been trying to come to terms with our travel restriction for a few years, although on 1 January 2021 it became real. Irrespective of your Brexit opinions it is here to stay and Schengen rules now apply to us if we want to cross into Europe.
 
We have decided to put pen to paper after seeing far too much confusion on our Motoroamers’ Chat Room in particular. It’s odd, I so thought we had ‘got it’ although one particular post challenged my thinking and got me into a right old panic. So we had two days doing more research, looking for blogs and trying to get clarity. Myles even built a spreadsheet so he could get it clear in his own mind. The one thing that I noticed was there was little by way of blogs relevant to motorhomers looking to extend their stays in Europe. So the culmination of our tears, tantrums and stress is this blog with the specific intention of providing information for those of us who want to do the Schengen Shuffle without risking getting a fine.
 
We realise that it’s a bit of a risk going public as you are so open to criticism although we wouldn’t do it unless we were totally comfortable in our information. So we offer our research, explanations and presentation in an attempt to help you. With examples of how trips might look, we want to give you knowledge and confidence in the Schengen processes. Although please we ask you to do your own calculations relevant to your trips. This blog is just to get us all clear on what we can and can’t do and all the terminology that seems to set out to confuse and get us tearing out our hair. 
 
We also acknowledge that although Schengen is a reality for us right now sat in 2021, because of Covid travel restrictions have created a double whammy for us. So few of us as yet have been able to put all this into action. Please refer to the examples as hypothetical as we are currently not allowed to travel anywhere at the moment. (@March/2021). This is how the blog will shape up.
Table of Contents  hide 

 
What is Schengen and what does it mean for us as motorhomers?
Schengen is the term used to describe the treaty that lead to a passport-free zone that currently covers 26 countries across the European continent. It was created on June 14 1985 resulting in individual countries ending border controls between members. The vision was to build ‘a Europe without borders’ creating a concept of free-movement. Five years later the Schengen agreement was implemented although in reality the policies and rules didn’t come into force until 26 March 1995. After this the Schengen agreement grew with more countries joining the original five members. And now 26 countries are part of the Schengen Area.
 
The essence of Schengen is that within the continent it abolishes border controls and the need for passports to cross from one country into another. This of course is favourable for those countries within the Schengen club. For all other countries outside of the Area, restrictions are imposed to the amount we can travel visa-free through the member countries. This has implications for us as we have now left the EU meaning we become a third nation country. We will be restricted to a 90 day limit in any 180 days. More on this shortly. At borders after leaving the UK, our passage into Schengen will be recorded either electronically and/or via a stamp on our Passport. It means that we will need to plan our trips more carefully to ensure that we don’t overstay our visit to the Schengen. At the moment we don’t have any data to state what the fines would be for exceeding our limit although we need to expect some sort of penalty. It is reported that different countries impose different fines and that won’t become clear for us until we are once again allowed to travel outside of the UK.
 
Currently 62 countries, including the UK  can visit the Schengen zone for business or travel reasons without the requirement of a visa. In order for the Schengen countries to control security there is an electronic application called an ETIAS planned for launch by end of 2022. This ETIAS enables citizens of third countries such as UK to enter Schengen without the need for a visa. So the good news is that we are visa-exempt for entering the Schengen area for up to 90 days. We will provide more information on this when implementation dates are announced. Although for the time being no ETIAS is required for our entry into Schengen.
 Schengen Terminology made simple
Schengen country – Is a country who has signed up to the Schengen Agreement and thereby allowing freedom of movement across their borders. Visiting each of these countries means that we can only spend 90 days in each rolling 180 day period.

Non-EU Schengen country – There are members of Schengen who are not part of the EU such as Switzerland, Iceland, Norway and Lichtenstein although have for economic reasons decided to sign up to the Schengen Agreement. 

Non Schengen country – There are three types of non Schengen countries. The first is Ireland who has opted out of being in Schengen meaning that we can visit without needing a passport or it affecting our 90 day allowance. The second are countries who are part of Europe although who are not part of Schengen such as Bosnia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Russia and Ukraine. The third are countries outside of Europe that we are able to access for up to 90 days that include Turkey, Cyprus and Morocco.

Pending Schengen countries – It’s important to set these countries apart from other non-Schengen countries as their membership is currently pending and under review. So Bulgaria, Romania and Croatia are expected to join at some point in the future, although for now we are able to travel around these countries for up to 90 days, without it affecting our Schengen allowance.

Microstate de facto principalities – Aside of all these categories there are also four microstates that are principalities with a small population and few natural resources that whilst in Europe are not in Schengen. They are known as de facto countries and we are able to visit these countries without it affecting our allowance. They are San Marino, Vatican City, Andorra and Monaco.

Third Nation – This is the description used for countries that are outside of the EU. UK is now recognised as a third country following our exit from Europe on 1/1/21.

ETIAS – This is the European Travel Information and Authorisation System. Similar to the system required to enter US, at the back end of 2022 it is expected that we will have to register an Etias prior to entering the Schengen zone. It will cost around €7 per application.

Rolling 180 days – This is one of the key elements of Schengen that is most misunderstood and yet so critical to our plans to Schengen Shuffle. Schengen is like an escalator; always moving, rolling. So not like a calendar where the months are static. The 180 days will move according to when you want to enter and exit from the area and it is a counting back exercise from those dates. I will talk more about this, although see your available time as moving and not static and this will ease your planning pain immensely.

Schengen entry and exit points – These dates are really important to us in getting our allowance accurate. Your entry date is the day you leave the UK (or a non Schengen country) and make your journey to a Schengen country and this counts as DAY 1 of your 90 days. Even if you leave the UK at 6.00pm at night, you must still count this as 1 day in Schengen, irrespective of the hours you have stepped onto Schengen soil. Your exit date is the day leave Schengen and move outside of the zone, either returning back to the UK or moving into a non Schengen country. This is also counted as 1 DAY, irrespective of the time you leave the Schengen area.  

Schengen allowance – This is the second key element that we have to get our heads around. Understanding how our allowance works and more importantly how to calculate days spent in the zone is vital, to both your sanity and your noiseless navigation around Europe. So here we go. We have 90 days available within any 180 day period – as we know from above. We also know that this 180 day period is a moving beast and not static. So every time we enter and exit Schengen we must look behind us to see how many days we have already used up. There are two ways to look at this;

You want to visit Schengen although have no pre-determined duration for your trip at this point – you just want to go for as long as possible and want to establish how long that might be. So you take your entry point to Schengen, so let’s say 17 May 2021 and now work backwards 180 days, which takes you to 18 November 2021. How many days have you already had in Schengen and therefore how many can you now use for your trip?

You have a specific period of time you want to visit Schengen, so let’s say 60 days. Now you know both your entry date and exit date. Using the same example as above, this means that you want to leave the UK on 17 May and leave Schengen on 16 July 2021. Use your exit date and count back 180 days which takes you to 17 January 2021. Now you can see how much of your 90 day allowance you will have used including this trip and therefore see if being away for 60 days is achievable given your allowance. 

 Schengen/Non Schengen Map
Understanding which countries we can and cannot visit is imperative to us as we plan our European road-trips. So hopefully this visual map will help to grasp how to Schengen shuffle. 
 

There are a few points to make on this map; the originator of the map didn’t differentiate Andorra, San Marino, Monaco or the Vatican City I guess because they were too small to annotate. So whilst these for all intents and purposes look like they belong to the Schengen area – they don’t. We can travel here Schengen free and save some days from our allowance. So for skiers this might make Andorra a strong possibility.

Ok, so as you will see from this map, it clearly shows those areas that are defined by the Schengen agreement and allows us to plan where we can and can’t go travel to. So first of all those countries that are purple are currently in the Schengen zone and means that we are restricted to 90 days in our rolling 180 days and so careful planning is required here to avoid any penalties for overstaying our welcome. More on this later.

The blue countries are those who are not in Europe although for economic reasons have decided that being part of the Schengen Agreement is important for their countries. So travel here impacts on our Schengen allowance and must be treated in the same way as the purple countries.

The green areas; the first is Ireland which has opted out of Schengen and the second are those countries currently with their application to Schengen pending. So for now we can travel here without having to use our Schengen allowance. Which is great news.

And finally the grey countries are those that are not part of Schengen and are known as Third Nations. So in theory we can travel here without our Schengen allowance being affected. Clearly we will have unlimited travel through UK and Northern Ireland whilst a trip to Turkey and Morocco will be allowed for up to 90 days. So this has some terrific opportunities for those of us wanting to do the Schengen Shuffle especially during the winter.

 
Schengen Shuffle Scenarios
I think to really bring Schengen to life in a clear and non-scary way, we need to create some scenarios for you that will help you work out how your trips might look. So below we illustrate some options and how to calculate the days so you can dance your way around Europe without risking a Schengen penalty. For each of these scenarios, let’s assume that because of lockdown, none of us have been into the Schengen zone because of our lockdown periods. 
Easy Schengen Trip – Out for 90 and back for 90
The easiest Schengen scenario is where you simply decide to leave the UK and head to Europe for up to 90 days and then come back to the UK for 90 days and then head out again for another 90 day block. There is little complication here as there is no Schengen Shuffling going on. You simply leave the UK on 17 May 2021 and enjoy your Schengen countries for a full 90 days and then return on 14 August. That means that you can return to Schengen again for 90 days on 13 November. This calculator image below demonstrates this nicely.

 
 

Schengen Shuffle – Travelling for 11 months out of UK 
Now we start to dance our way through Schengen and begin our shuffle. So you want to spend most of your time in Europe and perhaps not too much time in the UK. Given that most us need an annual MOT, coming back to the UK is necessary, although with some careful planning you can be out of the UK for up to 11 months. We have shown you an example of how to do this using a trip down to Greece, over to Turkey and then back through Bulgaria and Romania. You could of course map the same sort of trip to include Morocco or Croatia (until the latter’s membership is approved.) 

You leave on 17 May and decide on just 80 days in Schengen so that you have a 10 day buffer should you need to get back to the UK in an emergency. (Bear in mind that if you did 90 in Schengen and then went to Turkey and something happened back home then you have no days available in your allowance to return to the UK. You would have to leave your van in Turkey and fly back. So just as an insurance policy, it is worth having a little buffer period if your circumstances back in the UK drive it.)

On 4 August you cross into Turkey and stay for up to 90 days. After which you return to Greece and take two days to travel to Bulgaria where with Romania you can tour for 90 days per country if you wish. For the purposes of our exercise I have shown 90 days in total for the two countries leaving Romania for Hungary where we re-enter the Schengen on 1 February. We now have a totally of 88 days to return to the UK allowing us to meander through Austria, Germany and France.

 
To illustrate this one further step; if you look at each of your exit dates and go back 180 days you can calculate how many days you have spent in Schengen. This is how it looks in practice;

 

  • 4 August 2021 exit date – go back 180 days takes you to 5 February 2021. You have no Schengen allowance to consider in this period. 
  • Your next Schengen entry and exit points are 2 and 3 November 2021. Go back from 3 November 2021180 days takes you to 7 May 2021. During this period (which remember is a rolling 180 day period) you have used 80 days, so you have 10 left.
  • Your next entry and exit points are 1 Feb and 29 April 2022. So again from your 29 April date go back 180 days, which takes you to 31 October 2021 where you have used 2 days, therefore your planned 88 days can be used to return back to the UK.
 

There are obviously lots of other options we could illustrate, although hopefully seeing how we could have 11 months out of the UK should give you some confidence to begin planning your own trips. The bottom line to remember is that if you shuffle your way from Schengen into Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Morocco or Turkey, then you can have an extended trip out of the UK and still get back in time for your MOT. Obviously in the examples that we have given above, it doesn’t take into account weather conditions that might influence your decisions and the dates are just illustrative. Also as a disclaimer, we must stress that it is vital for you to do your own calculations and planning to ensure that the trip you decide upon is doable without penalty. 
 Schengen Allowance and Date Calculators 
As we have navigated our way around this topic both for our own trips abroad and also for this blog, we have come across some great tools that will keep you sane, safe and in allowance, which we profile here. 
 

The first essential tool is the Visa Calculator. This is our preferred calculator tool as it is clearer and easier to use. The calculator allows you to input your entry and exit date to Schengen and then it calculates when you must have left the area to prevent penalties. It also allows you to map in multiple trips, which is great. So no paper calculations are needed as in our experience they can lead to mis-planning. We strongly urge you to if not plan with this tool at the very least use it to check your predictions. 

The second tool we found incredibly helpful is the Date Calculator. Trying to work out what 180 days back can be tricky even using your Phone’s calendar. So make life simple and use this site instead. It allows you to put in a date and then either add or subtract the desired number of days. It is terrific and makes life simpler, quicker and far less stressful than the classic ’30 days has September, April, June and November’. 

I have saved both of these websites on my phone and popped them into a folder called Schengen so that I have easy access to them. You can do this too by going into their websites and tapping the three horizontal lines on the bottom right of your screen. Then you press Add page to and you can put it on your home screen. 
 

Schengen Top Tips
This final section is more of a hypothetic section given that at the time of writing, we have not been able to travel and put our knowledge into practise. That said I think for now, there are some planning tips that we can offer you to help you navigate your Schengen Shuffle more easily. 

  1. Perhaps the flexibility of travel may be jaded by Schengen with intuitive right turns limited under the restrictions. Although there is no reason why, certainly for now, we shouldn’t be able to enjoy full and rich travels through Europe. We just need to plan a little more precisely than we have in the past. Travel is still possible and so keep your minds positive and upbeat.
  2. Avoid going to the edge of your allowance. 90 days might be alluring, although in any plans we need to cater for the unforeseen such as family crises, illness, breakdowns and incidents and our Schengen Shuffling is no different. Make sure you give yourself some scope for emergencies or things that you hadn’t catered for. Don’t risk getting penalties for having to overstay because of that breakdown that cost you five days you hadn’t allowed for in your plans.
  3. Make sure if you visit Turkey and Morocco you will need to get additional insurance. We have recently found out that Comfort have suspended their Morocco and Turkey cover. So sadly unless Aviva’s policy changes, we will be leaving for Saga in December. Make sure that you provide the specific dates to your insurers of your stay in these two countries so that they can send you the Green Card that is a requirement. For more information on Morocco, check out our free Ebookwhich gives you more essential information about your entry to this exciting African country.
  4. Make sure that your passports have at least 6 months left on them otherwise you may be prevented from travelling outside of the UK. Also make sure that you get a stamp from the Border Control to show your entry and exit points. Whilst it should all be automated, for us this is still so new, a stamp will prevent any disputes along the line.
  5. When you use the calculator to plan your trips, especially if they are multiple, take a screen shot and save it on your phone so if there is again any dispute you can demonstrate your dates using the calculator.
  6. Remember when travelling to the continent there are restrictions on the food you are allowed and prohibited to bring in. Check this website for the specifics otherwise you risk these items being confiscated.
  7. If you travel with pets, you should look to explore getting an EU Pet Passport otherwise you will be restricted to just 4 months in Schengen and non Schengen countries using the UK’s Pet Passport scheme.
  8. Keep your eyes open for Visa Extension information from each Schengen country. Whilst there are visas that you can apply for, for work purposes, there are few that cover tourism extensions. This may change as Covid restrictions are lifted and countries want to encourage UK travellers back into their countries. Although at the time of writing there are no immediate plans for this to be offered.
 

So this brings us to the end of our Schengen Shuffle guide. We hope that is has helped demystify some of the terms used and the confusions that have been building around what we can and can’t do. The bottom line that travel is still possible and more than perhaps we thought possible. So we hope that this will all feel hopeful and positive for you. 

If you have any questions please drop us an email at themotoroamers@... and we will endeavour to answer them.

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Re: Amazing Monocular

David Scholes
 

Ok Mike. I would tell you about taxing my MH and driving my wife to Lincoln for an eye operation and being picked up by the police but it was all so boring.

David


On 7 Mar 2021, at 11:24, Mike via groups.io <mike.egff@...> wrote:



It’s getting like the “Wherever Online” news sites with their mahusive this & amazing that nonsense. Gives even the best journo’s a bad name !

 

Mike Kemp

 

From: motorhome-list@groups.io <motorhome-list@groups.io> On Behalf Of David Scholes via groups.io
Sent: 06 March 2021 22:00
To: motorhome-list@groups.io
Subject: Re: [motorhome-list] Amazing Monocular

 

Hi Ernie,

I have a monocular. It was my fathers. I inherited it.

It you want to see something distant then it helps but binoculars are better.

Adverts seem to be getting out of hand again like before the sale of goods act. They tell you the good things but not the bad.

What really matters is whether things are good for you. It seems that your binoculars are good for you.

Enjoy them.

 

David

 



On 6 Mar 2021, at 21:39, John Clemence <clemence.john@...> wrote:



Sounds good Ernie but the reviews on Amazon are pretty poor, one star!

Regards,

John.

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Ernest Bull" <ernb32@...>

Sent: 06/03/2021 19:37:15

Subject: [motorhome-list] Amazing Monocular

 


Re: Amazing Monocular

Mike
 

It’s getting like the “Wherever Online” news sites with their mahusive this & amazing that nonsense. Gives even the best journo’s a bad name !

 

Mike Kemp

 

From: motorhome-list@groups.io <motorhome-list@groups.io> On Behalf Of David Scholes via groups.io
Sent: 06 March 2021 22:00
To: motorhome-list@groups.io
Subject: Re: [motorhome-list] Amazing Monocular

 

Hi Ernie,

I have a monocular. It was my fathers. I inherited it.

It you want to see something distant then it helps but binoculars are better.

Adverts seem to be getting out of hand again like before the sale of goods act. They tell you the good things but not the bad.

What really matters is whether things are good for you. It seems that your binoculars are good for you.

Enjoy them.

 

David

 



On 6 Mar 2021, at 21:39, John Clemence <clemence.john@...> wrote:



Sounds good Ernie but the reviews on Amazon are pretty poor, one star!

Regards,

John.

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Ernest Bull" <ernb32@...>

Sent: 06/03/2021 19:37:15

Subject: [motorhome-list] Amazing Monocular

 


Re: Amazing Monocular

Ernest Bull
 

On 6 Mar 2021, at 22:00, David Scholes via groups.io <scholesd@...> wrote:

What really matters is whether things are good for you. It seems that your binoculars are good for you.
Enjoy them.

Will do, David and John. But I liked the idea of getting not just a big moon but a an even bigger moon crater. And get it on the phone as well.

OTOH, the price sort of gave their game away.
_______

ErnB


Re: Amazing Monocular

David Scholes
 

Hi Ernie,
I have a monocular. It was my fathers. I inherited it.
It you want to see something distant then it helps but binoculars are better.
Adverts seem to be getting out of hand again like before the sale of goods act. They tell you the good things but not the bad.
What really matters is whether things are good for you. It seems that your binoculars are good for you.
Enjoy them.

David


On 6 Mar 2021, at 21:39, John Clemence <clemence.john@...> wrote:


Sounds good Ernie but the reviews on Amazon are pretty poor, one star!
Regards,
John.

------ Original Message ------
From: "Ernest Bull" <ernb32@...>
Sent: 06/03/2021 19:37:15
Subject: [motorhome-list] Amazing Monocular


Re: Amazing Monocular

John Clemence
 

Sounds good Ernie but the reviews on Amazon are pretty poor, one star!
Regards,
John.

------ Original Message ------
From: "Ernest Bull" <ernb32@...>
Sent: 06/03/2021 19:37:15
Subject: [motorhome-list] Amazing Monocular


Amazing Monocular

Ernest Bull
 


Re: plans changed?

Nick
 

I should think most folk have had to change or at least tweet their plans for the near future. I've put off my mini European tour to Budapest on the motorbike. I've swooped it for a few days doing the Snowdonia 360 in June.Me and the wife have decided not to take the motorhome over to Europe this year because 1/ not sure how things will pan out over there with regards to the Covid situation and 2/ I reckon there may well be some backlash from some quarters about Brexit.
We have already booked 2 separate weeks away in Devon and a long weekend in Norfolk. Hopefully by next year there will be a clearer picture on what will hopefully be a brave new world.


Re: Binoculars

Elwyn
 

On 28/02/2021 17:44, Alan Morris wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 at 12:06, Elwyn <webforum.emails@gmail.com> wrote:

Are you planning on getting a pair then Alan? Or do you have a pair
already ;)
LOL. I had replied to the 'other Alan' ;)

But not to worry, thanks for the update.

Cheers

Elwyn


Re: Ham Radios & Motorhoming.

Elwyn
 

On 28/02/2021 17:34, Alan Morris wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 at 12:05, Elwyn <webforum.emails@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.arcc.org.uk/

Amateur Radio Camping and Caravaning Club;
What was it you were looking for Alan? ;)
Thanks Elwyn, but I've been a member for over 20 years.
Alan.
Well, I wasn't sure but I thought I'd mention it just in case ;)

I got rid of my caravan, so my 'camper' is only my LR D2

Elwyn


Re: Binoculars

Alan Morris
 

On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 at 12:06, Elwyn <webforum.emails@gmail.com> wrote:

Are you planning on getting a pair then Alan? Or do you have a pair
already ;)
I had written:-

After Ern's posting I looked at a few reviews and have ordered from
Amazon a Celestron 71335 Nature DX 10x56 and a tripod adapter as I
have a camera tripod and mono-pod.

I chose the 10x56 being one step up on the 8x42.
Due for delivery (FoC) on Monday but arrived yesterday.

They are very good.

I have a Manfrotto tripod and monopod, both with a Calumet
Quick-Release. I fitted a spare onto the adapter and it also works
OK, but floppy from side to side. Maybe I need to tighten the screw.

Alan.


Re: Ham Radios & Motorhoming.

Alan Morris
 

On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 at 12:05, Elwyn <webforum.emails@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.arcc.org.uk/

Amateur Radio Camping and Caravaning Club;
What was it you were looking for Alan? ;)
Thanks Elwyn, but I've been a member for over 20 years.

Alan.


plans changed?

timsinc Sinclair
 

Cities basically in shutdown - can't go the theatre or fancy diner,
not to mention get a haircut or dare risk public transport - we're
being inundated with temptations to make for the countryside . . . our
other escape routes to the sun, sea and sand blocked.

Camping clubs, media articles, the National Trust, website ads
enticing us to book now in readiness for when lockdown tethers are
loosened. Yep, unless you book now you won't be able to find a spare
b&b room, a campsite pitch or find a space in the crowded car parks,
as suddenly we all want 'get away' and splash out all that cash we've
been unable to spend in confinement.

Although, in anticipation, some bank accounts already raided - the
sales of motorhomes gone through the roof. Check out, with catch-up
tv, the Channel 5 show 'Million Pound Motorhomes'. It's not all about
the absurd extravagance of some - but whatever I found it really
depressing.

While climate change is gradually forcing change, Covid has come as a
sudden brutal shock to our way of life. Perhaps we needed it. Be
interesting to hear how others have or will adapt and changed their
thinking and plans for the future.

campervan Tim


Re: Binoculars

Elwyn
 

On 27/02/2021 11:42, Ernest Bull wrote:
On 26 Feb 2021, at 19:04, David Scholes via groups.io <http://groups.io> <scholesd=icloud.com@groups.io <mailto:scholesd=icloud.com@groups.io>> wrote:

Depends what you want them for Tim. A big number at the beginning means more magnification but also more image wobbling. A bigger number at the end means a brighter image so better at night. Hence bird watchers go for 8x32 whilst sailors go for 7 x50.
I suppose it all depends on whether your hobby is spotting the birds on the beach or those in the hedgerows.
I dug out my almost forgotten about Silver Crest tripod to steady mine, but it needs an adapter to mount things. I wonder where that went?
It might be worth doing some looking around as you might find something suitable on Ebay. I use a Manfrotto tripod so the replacement adapter are plentiful, albeit pricey.

For a previous pair of binoculars, the mount point was at the front where the hinge was between the two glass tubes; a friend made a right angle bracket for me for those to fit to my then binos but they were a cheaper pair.
And thanks, Tim. I didn’t expect such a response, but thinking about it, maybe a break from worrying about the  pandemic.
For that we can only wait for the Countdown to Rolling Down the Lockdown.
Until then, take care. Stay safe! Wherever you are.
—————
ErnB

Indeed. Soon be over hopefully.

Cheers, Elwyn


Re: Binoculars

Elwyn
 

On 26/02/2021 09:08, yorkcov wrote:
Is it the 8x42 Ernie ?
Are you planning on getting a pair then Alan? Or do you have a pair already ;)

Cheers

Elwyn


Re: Ham Radios & Motorhoming.

Elwyn
 

On 27/02/2021 21:12, Alan Morris wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 at 21:02, Bennett Family via groups.io
<martin.bennett47=me.com@groups.io> wrote:

There’s. One page article in the MARCH MMM.
It doesn’t tell you much but you might be interested in following it up.
Thanks Martin, but probably not worth £1.99 for just one page !
Alan.
http://www.arcc.org.uk/

Amateur Radio Camping and Caravaning Club;

But there are lots of stuff online about ham radio and RVs. Mostly for the american market but a lot of it is spread around other forums and systems too. A lot of people just for regular cars or off-roaders, or occasional campers etc.

What was it you were looking for Alan? ;)

Cheers

Elwyn
2e0elw


Re: Peggy Pegs

Ernest Bull
 

On 27 Feb 2021, at 21:06, Bennett Family via groups.io <martin.bennett47@...> wrote:

“Currently unavailable!”

And the way you read ‘em, I guess. Sorry, I was more interested in checking the photo. DOH!
————

ErnB


For those interested in the motorhomer Martin mentioned in MMM

Alan Morris
 

Have a look at his website:-


Worth a look.  Anexcellent bird on the home page.

Alan.

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