Topics

Line In/Out Pinout to Mac

Ben Cook
 

Good morning! Trying to figure out why the TRRS pinout from the Morserino to a Mac input doesn't work. Looking at the manual and then looking at the Mac's pinout, it seems like this should work with a straight through TRRS male-male cable. I learned today this appears to be the CTIA standard.

apple pin purpose morseino pin purpose
tip left audio tip line in
ring 1 right audio ring 1 line in
ring 2 ground ring 2 ground
sleeve mic/in sleeve line out

Yet when I plug the Morserino into my mac and go to the CW Keyer, I see no audio coming into the mac. When I go to the iCW function on the Morserino, I see no audio coming into the mac. I'm missing something here, but not sure what if anything to splice in the cable to make this work. Some additional insight appreciated.

Ben, N6ELF

Juergen Wagner
 

Hello Ben,
in your information i can't see: do u hve checked with earphone / scope or other device
that there is the keyed audio at the sleeve ? My first idea is that there is no audio there !
73
Juergen
DL4KE



Am 28.08.2019 um 16:23 schrieb Ben Cook:

Good morning! Trying to figure out why the TRRS pinout from the Morserino to a Mac input doesn't work. Looking at the manual and then looking at the Mac's pinout, it seems like this should work with a straight through TRRS male-male cable. I learned today this appears to be the CTIA standard.

apple pin purpose morseino pin purpose
tip left audio tip line in
ring 1 right audio ring 1 line in
ring 2 ground ring 2 ground
sleeve mic/in sleeve line out

Yet when I plug the Morserino into my mac and go to the CW Keyer, I see no audio coming into the mac. When I go to the iCW function on the Morserino, I see no audio coming into the mac. I'm missing something here, but not sure what if anything to splice in the cable to make this work. Some additional insight appreciated.

Ben, N6ELF

Ben Cook
 

Hi Juergen,

Good point. I connected the audio out to an amplified speaker and heard no audio. Tested with the headphone jack and got plenty of audio. This made me thing there might be something wrong with my soldering job or the component. Sure enough, when I tested, the two pins in the yellow box appear to be connected even when not keying. The solder joints don’t look connected, so I’m wondering if I got a bad component or where to check next. None of the other pins seem connected.
73,
Ben
N6ELF

On 28 Aug 2019, at 9:47, Juergen Wagner wrote:

Hello Ben,
in your information i can't see: do u hve checked with earphone / scope or other device
that there is the keyed audio at the sleeve ? My first idea is that there is no audio there !
73
Juergen
DL4KE



Am 28.08.2019 um 16:23 schrieb Ben Cook:
Good morning! Trying to figure out why the TRRS pinout from the Morserino to a Mac input doesn't work. Looking at the manual and then looking at the Mac's pinout, it seems like this should work with a straight through TRRS male-male cable. I learned today this appears to be the CTIA standard.

apple pin purpose morseino pin purpose
tip left audio tip line in
ring 1 right audio ring 1 line in
ring 2 ground ring 2 ground
sleeve mic/in sleeve line out

Yet when I plug the Morserino into my mac and go to the CW Keyer, I see no audio coming into the mac. When I go to the iCW function on the Morserino, I see no audio coming into the mac. I'm missing something here, but not sure what if anything to splice in the cable to make this work. Some additional insight appreciated.

Ben, N6ELF

Juergen Wagner
 

Yes Ben,
i think thats looking gud: TRRS = 4 contacts - and 4 are soldered. The unused may be switched connection points.
You know the automaticly switches off speakers when u pluged in a headphone...

So next what i would test with a OHM-meter: solderd connection points and the TRRS at the cable.

And then there may be an un-read point in the manual (pg 6):

....
A long press of the RED button starts a function to adjust the audio input level (and possible the output
level on a device you connected to the Morserino-32's line-out port).
....

73
Juergen

Am 28.08.2019 um 17:31 schrieb Ben Cook:

Hi Juergen,

Good point. I connected the audio out to an amplified speaker and heard no audio. Tested with the headphone jack and got plenty of audio. This made me thing there might be something wrong with my soldering job or the component. Sure enough, when I tested, the two pins in the yellow box appear to be connected even when not keying. The solder joints don’t look connected, so I’m wondering if I got a bad component or where to check next. None of the other pins seem connected.
73,
Ben
N6ELF

On 28 Aug 2019, at 9:47, Juergen Wagner wrote:

Hello Ben,
in your information i can't see: do u hve checked with earphone / scope or other device
that there is the keyed audio at the sleeve ? My first idea is that there is no audio there !
73
Juergen
DL4KE



Am 28.08.2019 um 16:23 schrieb Ben Cook:
Good morning! Trying to figure out why the TRRS pinout from the Morserino to a Mac input doesn't work. Looking at the manual and then looking at the Mac's pinout, it seems like this should work with a straight through TRRS male-male cable. I learned today this appears to be the CTIA standard.

apple pin purpose morseino pin purpose
tip left audio tip line in
ring 1 right audio ring 1 line in
ring 2 ground ring 2 ground
sleeve mic/in sleeve line out

Yet when I plug the Morserino into my mac and go to the CW Keyer, I see no audio coming into the mac. When I go to the iCW function on the Morserino, I see no audio coming into the mac. I'm missing something here, but not sure what if anything to splice in the cable to make this work. Some additional insight appreciated.

Ben, N6ELF


Birk [DB3DE]
 

Hi Ben,

when I was trying to connect my Morserino to my phone for using iCW (using a normal 4 to 4 cable) I realized the phone is not recognizing the morserino as a microphone device. As it turned out the resistance  is too high. Soldering a 1kOhm at the plug (between P1 and P4) solved the problem.
Maybe its the same for you...

73, Birk [DB3DE]

Craig T. Bailey
 

Birk,

What phone are you using?  


On Aug 28, 2019, at 12:16, Birk [DB3DE] via Groups.Io <bb-morserino@...> wrote:

Hi Ben,

when I was trying to connect my Morserino to my phone for using iCW (using a normal 4 to 4 cable) I realized the phone is not recognizing the morserino as a microphone device. As it turned out the resistance  is too high. Soldering a 1kOhm at the plug (between P1 and P4) solved the problem.
Maybe its the same for you...

73, Birk [DB3DE]

--
_____
Craig Bailey
N1SFT
NH, USA

Ben Cook
 

Hi Birk,

I’ll have to give that a try as well. I’m not using my phone, but trying to get the keyer to send the audio into my 2015 MacBook Pro. It does detect the Morseino as a headphone device for output, but doesn’t show up as an input device at all. So maybe the resistor fix you did will help with that piece. Will let you know if that works for me.

73, Ben, N6ELF

On 28 Aug 2019, at 11:16, Birk [DB3DE] wrote:

Hi Ben,

when I was trying to connect my Morserino to my phone for using iCW (using a normal 4 to 4 cable) I realized the phone is not recognizing the morserino as a microphone device. As it turned out the resistance  is too high. Soldering a 1kOhm at the plug (between P1 and P4) solved the problem.
Maybe its the same for you...

73, Birk [DB3DE]

Juergen Wagner
 

Hello Birk and Ben,
when i understood it right Ben, u wrote that u couldn't "detect" any audio at the TRRS contacts, so that
we have two different reasons: no audio from Morserino and - there is audio, but the Apple do not "receive"
it. or do i see it wrong ?
73
Juergen


Am 28.08.2019 um 19:25 schrieb Ben Cook:

Hi Birk,

I’ll have to give that a try as well. I’m not using my phone, but trying to get the keyer to send the audio into my 2015 MacBook Pro. It does detect the Morseino as a headphone device for output, but doesn’t show up as an input device at all. So maybe the resistor fix you did will help with that piece. Will let you know if that works for me.

73, Ben, N6ELF

On 28 Aug 2019, at 11:16, Birk [DB3DE] wrote:

Hi Ben,

when I was trying to connect my Morserino to my phone for using iCW (using a normal 4 to 4 cable) I realized the phone is not recognizing the morserino as a microphone device. As it turned out the resistance  is too high. Soldering a 1kOhm at the plug (between P1 and P4) solved the problem.
Maybe its the same for you...

73, Birk [DB3DE]

Ben Cook
 

Thank you Juergen,

I verified all connectors on the board to the TRRS cable look good. So no issues there. Also in case it helps anyone else, the solder points from the previous photo bottom left moving clockwise are: ring 2 (ground), ring 1 (line in), tip (line in), and sleeve (line out).

I did overlook that part of the manual. I was able to adjust the audio in on the Morserino according to the manual. I tested that it can receive and decode morse code when generated by the computer! So, we are narrowing in on the input issue of getting the line out from the Morserino into the MacBook Pro.

Birk mentioned that maybe that Mac doesn’t detect the Morserino as a microphone. I believe that is the issue right now. I measure DC voltage across the TRRS ring 2 (ground) and sleeve (audio out) so I believe the Morserino is outputting audio voltage.

73, Ben

On 28 Aug 2019, at 11:07, Juergen Wagner wrote:

Yes Ben,
i think thats looking gud: TRRS = 4 contacts - and 4 are soldered. The unused may be switched connection points.
You know the automaticly switches off speakers when u pluged in a headphone...

So next what i would test with a OHM-meter: solderd connection points and the TRRS at the cable.

And then there may be an un-read point in the manual (pg 6):

....
A long press of the RED button starts a function to adjust the audio input level (and possible the output
level on a device you connected to the Morserino-32's line-out port).
....

73
Juergen

Am 28.08.2019 um 17:31 schrieb Ben Cook:

Hi Juergen,

Good point. I connected the audio out to an amplified speaker and heard no audio. Tested with the headphone jack and got plenty of audio. This made me thing there might be something wrong with my soldering job or the component. Sure enough, when I tested, the two pins in the yellow box appear to be connected even when not keying. The solder joints don’t look connected, so I’m wondering if I got a bad component or where to check next. None of the other pins seem connected.
73,
Ben
N6ELF

On 28 Aug 2019, at 9:47, Juergen Wagner wrote:

Hello Ben,
in your information i can't see: do u hve checked with earphone / scope or other device
that there is the keyed audio at the sleeve ? My first idea is that there is no audio there !
73
Juergen
DL4KE



Am 28.08.2019 um 16:23 schrieb Ben Cook:
Good morning! Trying to figure out why the TRRS pinout from the Morserino to a Mac input doesn't work. Looking at the manual and then looking at the Mac's pinout, it seems like this should work with a straight through TRRS male-male cable. I learned today this appears to be the CTIA standard.

apple pin purpose morseino pin purpose
tip left audio tip line in
ring 1 right audio ring 1 line in
ring 2 ground ring 2 ground
sleeve mic/in sleeve line out

Yet when I plug the Morserino into my mac and go to the CW Keyer, I see no audio coming into the mac. When I go to the iCW function on the Morserino, I see no audio coming into the mac. I'm missing something here, but not sure what if anything to splice in the cable to make this work. Some additional insight appreciated.

Ben, N6ELF


Birk [DB3DE]
 

It's an Android Motorola Moto something ;-)
My guess its similar with most phones - I can't image how they would otherwise electronically detect the difference between a 3 connector plug (--> just headphones -->  leave the internal microphone of the phone on) or a 4 connector plug (--> switch the internal microphone off)

73, Birk [DB3DE]

Birk [DB3DE]
 

@Ben:

What I did:
After figuring out that my phone is alway leaving the internal microphone on (and not turning to "external" microphone aka morserino) I connected an normal phone headset which ... surprisingly worked. Then I measured the resistance of the microphone and put in a resistor for mimicking that.
Don't know about the sound quality though.

If your MacBook also has to decide if there is an external microphone connected or not and you are not receiving anything I guess its worth a try...
Maybe you can doublecheck in the sound setting the changes of connecting normal headphones vs. connecting a headset. If there are automatic changes there I guess you found your problem.

73, Birk

Ben Cook
 

The TRRS pinout for an Android device is actually different from an Apple device. One of the things I learned yesterday. Basically the microphone for an Apple device (CTIA standard) is on the sleeve whereas the microphone for an Android device (OMTP standard) is on the 2nd ring. The ground position just flips depending on where the microphone pin goes.

I’m curious too what happens when you go from a TRRS to a TRS. Does it just mesh the audio channels together? Or just eliminates the mic? That will be the next thing I look up.

73, Ben N6ELF

On 29 Aug 2019, at 1:16, Birk [DB3DE] wrote:

It's an Android Motorola Moto something ;-)
My guess its similar with most phones - I can't image how they would otherwise electronically detect the difference between a 3 connector plug (--> just headphones -->  leave the internal microphone of the phone on) or a 4 connector plug (--> switch the internal microphone off)

73, Birk [DB3DE]

Ben Cook
 

Final solution to get the audio out from the Morserino to my mac was to buy a $9 USB TRRS audio input on Amazon and that worked first try! Here’s a link to what I bought in case anyone else needs the same: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RS11M1T/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_4vVBDbN8DSAS3

That now coupled with the Loopback program for the Mac is awesome for my CWA course starting this week! I can get the headset to work for mic and audio out and mix that with the cw audio from the Morserino.

Thanks for all the help and patience folks!
73, Ben N6ELF

On 29 Aug 2019, at 1:23, Birk [DB3DE] wrote:

@Ben:

What I did:
After figuring out that my phone is alway leaving the internal microphone on (and not turning to "external" microphone aka morserino) I connected an normal phone headset which ... surprisingly worked. Then I measured the resistance of the microphone and put in a resistor for mimicking that.
Don't know about the sound quality though.

If your MacBook also has to decide if there is an external microphone connected or not and you are not receiving anything I guess its worth a try...
Maybe you can doublecheck in the sound setting the changes of connecting normal headphones vs. connecting a headset. If there are automatic changes there I guess you found your problem.

73, Birk