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Is marxmail a good forum for basic questions about Marxism?

Gibbons Brian
 

Re: MLB player salaries

See

https://www.statista.com/statistics/256187/minimum-salary-of-players-in-major-league-baseball/  

These minimum (starting) salaries are a result of bargaining by their union; MLB Players Assn.

I guess its all relative given the the surplus value players generate for the owners and the additional subsidies most owners receive from local taxpayers for the privilege of having a home team.

Brian Gibbons
Michael Meeropol
 

excellent point John --- the capitalists hold the power ---(viz Kaepernick)

HOWEVER --- the NBA players (and MLB players as well) show the power of COLLECTIVE ACTION --- Back in 1994 the MLB union did NOT cross the picket line --- so they won (unlike the NFL where too many players did scab).

The NBA players, just by cancelling one day of games, forced the owners to open their arenas for social distancing voting ---

(doubt the owners would have done that on their own)

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 1:40 PM John A Imani <johnaimani3@...> wrote:
Comrade Meeropol wrote:

<< Consider NBA  or Major League Baseball super stars>>

Crystal clear example is an Example for all of us:  Colin Kaepernick.
John A Imani
 

Comrade Meeropol wrote:

<< Consider NBA  or Major League Baseball super stars>>

Crystal clear example is an Example for all of us:  Colin Kaepernick.

JAI
Michael Meeropol
 

John's comments were completely convincing -- perhaps one of the most interesting ways to make this clear is to think about Professional Athletes who are (in many cases) millionaires themselves.

Consider NBA  or Major League Baseball super stars --- the television contracts mean that the REVENUE FLOW dwarfs the incomes of those "millionaire" players.  When Major League Baseball was on strike, President Bill Clinton issued a "plague on both your houses" statement that obscured how much surplus value the MLB players produced for the owners --- calling the strike a "fight between two groups of millionaires" --

First of all, there are (younger, not star) MLB players who are not (yet) millionaires -- but more importantly, the owners are BILLIONAIRES not Millionaires --- 

A lot of Major League Baseball teams "report" losses --- Andrew Zimbalist in BASEBALL and BILLIONS has shown that this is the result of FANCY accounting tricks --- in Maxist terms, MLB players produce astronomical amounts of surplus value for the owners.

(MIke Meeropol)
John A Imani
 

Comrade,

If someone takes part of what you earn and/or you can be fired then you are a member of the working class, Doesn't matter how much or how little that you make.  Here is Marx on this description of who are working class as not defined by amount of income::

“We shall assume that he is a mere wage-labourer, even one of the better paid, for all the difference it makes. Whatever his pay, as a wage-labourer he works part of his time for nothing.” “Vol 2.” Chap 6 p132.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1885-c2/ch06.htm

Or when speaking of merchants he is even clearer about how class is not determined by the quantity of one's income but of its qualitity, i.e. how is it that this income is obtained:

“In order to share in the mass of surplus-value, to expand the value of his advance as capital, the commercial capitalist need not employ wage-workers. If his business and capital are small, he may be the only worker in it. He is paid with that portion of the profit which falls to him through the difference between the purchase price paid by him for commodities and their actual price of production.

But, on the other hand, the profit realised by the merchant on a small amount of advanced capital may be no larger, or may even be smaller, than the wages of one of the better-paid skilled wage-workers.” Vol 3 p290.  https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894-c3/ch17.htm


Here from another source c'est la meme chose:

"Class isn’t just about how much money you make, and it’s certainly not about cultural traits or your level of education. Marxists argue that anyone who must sell their ability to work for a wage and can’t produce their life necessities for themselves is part of the working class."  https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/09/working-class-peoples-guide-capitalism-marxist-economics

JAI
Michael Meeropol
 

And there are a lot of possible answers!



For example, "Are knowledge workers (e.g. software engineers) part of the proletariat? What if they are highly-paid, salaried, and have stock options?"

That type of question fits in pretty well to our discussions.

_._,_._,_
judeanpeoplesfront@...
 

For example, "Are knowledge workers (e.g. software engineers) part of the proletariat? What if they are highly-paid, salaried, and have stock options?"

That type of question fits in pretty well to our discussions.

Great, thanks. I’ll pose this exact question in a separate thread then.
Louis Proyect
 

On 11/7/20 6:02 PM, judeanpeoplesfront via groups.io wrote:
For example, "Are knowledge workers (e.g. software engineers) part of the proletariat? What if they are highly-paid, salaried, and have stock options?"

That type of question fits in pretty well to our discussions.
judeanpeoplesfront@...
 

I am looking for somewhere to ask *basic* questions about Marxism where I can get nuanced, non-dogmatic responses and debate. Is marxmail a good forum for that, or would such beginner questions be too pedestrian? For example, "Are knowledge workers (e.g. software engineers) part of the proletariat? What if they are highly-paid, salaried, and have stock options?"

I have found other forums like reddit's "debate communism" but was turned off by knee-jerk apologism for totalitarian regimes and a lack of nuance in some of the discussions.
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