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Why I’m for Voting For Biden and Urge You To Do So - New Politics
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John Edmundson
The articles on philanthropy.com that were linked to are full of examples of people like Kelloggs funding "anti-Racism" or "diversity" programmes but they tend to be things like measures to up the number of minorities in the company and even in management etc. And, you know? Some of it is probably genuine liberal handwringing about unfairness. But they aren't giving much to anti-capitalist anti-racist organisations working to build a mass movement. You won't see them funding a "defund the police" movement, or at least not if it looks like gaining traction. These cries are as old as protest movements themselves. If I had a rouble for every time I heard that I was paid by the Russians to protest apartheid, my material life would have been transformed back in 1981 to the extent that I would probably now be a reactionary capitalist arsehole. Popular movements generally spring out of "seemingly" nowhere, outside the control of the Left and sadly, the Left then doesn't know how to "relate to them", unfortunately often opting for knee-jerk suspicion and mistrust. Convince me how the capitalist system has anything to gain from a popular mass movement calling for radical changes like defunding the police. But if it has to do with the power balance between the Republicans and the Democrats, perhaps best not to bother. Comradely, John
On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 12:36 PM <edonbass@...> wrote: The money goes to pay directors’ salaries. That’s how non-profits work. Foot soldiers don’t get paid, or reimbursed. -- "All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks." Sarah Moore Grimke, abolitionist (1792-1873)
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edonbass@...
The money goes to pay directors’ salaries. That’s how non-profits work. Foot soldiers don’t get paid, or reimbursed.
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On 9/28/20 at 19:01, Richard Modiano wrote:
According to comrades who were arrested in Portland and Los Angeles bail was posted by friends, family members or union local defense funds (in rare cases.) So just where is this $6 billion going? Moreover signs and banners were paid out of pocket, so maybe you can tell us how we can be reimbursed by these foundations for our expenses, including legal fees. Until then, I agree with Louis that this is bull shit.
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edonbass@...
The “color” revolutions were organized on social media also.
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On 9/28/20 at 18:32, Louis Proyect wrote:
On 9/28/20 6:22 PM, Clarence Wilson wrote: Since George Floyd was killed in May, foundations have committed $6Yeah, but what does that have to do with the protests this summer over George Floyd's murder? It's a good idea not to be evasive when you are in a debate on Marxmail. I spoke about social media and you changed the subject. Tch-tch.
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Richard Modiano
According to comrades who were arrested in Portland and Los Angeles bail was posted by friends, family members or union local defense funds (in rare cases.) So just where is this $6 billion going? Moreover signs and banners were paid out of pocket, so maybe you can tell us how we can be reimbursed by these foundations for our expenses, including legal fees. Until then, I agree with Louis that this is bull shit.
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Louis Proyect
On 9/28/20 6:22 PM, Clarence Wilson
wrote:
Since George Floyd was killed in May, foundations have committed $6 billion to "racial equity". Yeah, but what does that have to do with the
protests this summer over George Floyd's murder? It's a good
idea not to be evasive when you are in a debate on Marxmail. I
spoke about social media and you changed the subject. Tch-tch.
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Chris Slee
The ruling class often tries to buy off progressive movements with real or tokenistic concessions. This does not mean the ruling class created such movements. Nor does it necessarily mean they will succeed in buying them off - that depends on political struggle.
Chris Slee
From: marxmail@groups.io <marxmail@groups.io> on behalf of Clarence Wilson <clarence.wilson@...>
Sent: Tuesday, 29 September 2020 8:22 AM To: marxmail@groups.io <marxmail@groups.io> Subject: Re: [marxmail] Why I’m for Voting For Biden and Urge You To Do So - New Politics Since George Floyd was killed in May, foundations have committed $6 billion to "racial equity".
https://www.philanthropy.com/specialreport/billions-for-racial-equity/253
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 at 5:46 PM
From: "Louis Proyect" <lnp3@...> To: marxmail@groups.io Subject: Re: [marxmail] Why I’m for Voting For Biden and Urge You To Do So - New Politics On 9/28/20 4:41 PM, Clarence Wilson wrote:
The anti-racism protests are fully funded by the bourgeoisie. They’re not meant to bring the bourgeoisie to its knees. This is pure bullshit. Most were organized through social media. Unless Jeff Zuckerberg started charging for FB, of course.
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Clarence Wilson <clarence.wilson@...>
Since George Floyd was killed in May, foundations have committed $6 billion to "racial equity".
https://www.philanthropy.com/specialreport/billions-for-racial-equity/253
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 at 5:46 PM
From: "Louis Proyect" <lnp3@...> To: marxmail@groups.io Subject: Re: [marxmail] Why I’m for Voting For Biden and Urge You To Do So - New Politics On 9/28/20 4:41 PM, Clarence Wilson wrote:
The anti-racism protests are fully funded by the bourgeoisie. They’re not meant to bring the bourgeoisie to its knees. This is pure bullshit. Most were organized through social media. Unless Jeff Zuckerberg started charging for FB, of course.
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Louis Proyect
On 9/28/20 4:41 PM, Clarence Wilson
wrote:
The anti-racism protests are fully funded by the bourgeoisie. They’re not meant to bring the bourgeoisie to its knees. This is pure bullshit. Most were organized
through social media. Unless Jeff Zuckerberg started charging
for FB, of course.
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Clarence Wilson <clarence.wilson@...>
The anti-racism protests are fully funded by the bourgeoisie. They’re not meant to bring the bourgeoisie to its knees.
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If Biden wins, and these protests are still happening, I predict a massive retaliation by state national guards.
On 9/28/20 at 16:15, Dan La Botz wrote:
Hi all, I did not claim that voting for Biden would stop Trump. I said that it might make his ability to claim that he is the legitimate president more difficult. And, unfortunately, the anti-racism protests have not forced the bourgeoisie to its knee. In fact the level of class struggle in the United States remains very low. Dan My latest book, my first novel. trotskyintijuana.com On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 3:08 PM Dayne Goodwin <daynegoodwin@...> wrote: I don't think that Trump's apparent proto-fascist political trajectory
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Dan La Botz
Hi all, I did not claim that voting for Biden would stop Trump. I said that it might make his ability to claim that he is the legitimate president more difficult. And, unfortunately, the anti-racism protests have not forced the bourgeoisie to its knee. In fact the level of class struggle in the United States remains very low. Dan
On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 3:08 PM Dayne Goodwin <daynegoodwin@...> wrote: I don't think that Trump's apparent proto-fascist political trajectory
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Dayne Goodwin
I don't think that Trump's apparent proto-fascist political trajectory
is unique to him, a singularity. I think the capitalist system is in crisis and the capitalist class generally is moving toward 'fascist-type solutions'. Leading capitalist politicians (and some of the billionaires) are in lockstep with Trump, i.e. Republican Congressman Tom Cotton ("Trump backers say he’s not undermining confidence in election" https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/27/cotton-trump-transfer-power-422169). It isn't just Trump, it is the direction the system is heading; some capitalist politicians who opposed Trump in 2016 are now supporters. It is and will be the class struggle that determines fundamental political developments in/of the capitalist system. How does voting for "nothing will change" Biden (of the other capitalist party) increase the political strength of the working class? Imagine that there is a political crisis coming out of the election process. Who will working people who have voted for Biden look to to resolve the crisis? We have to build independent working class political strength as best we can. For this presidential election the best opportunity we have to explain, argue for and work in this direction is through publicly supporting the Walker/Hawkins Green Party campaign. On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 4:29 PM Ryan via groups.io <rjbell=me.com@groups.io> wrote: I cannot disagree with anything you said. I guess I’m wondering if it’s a huge betrayal to cast a no vote for Trump (aka vote for Biden) and keep doing all the things that you say about building the power of the working class.
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John Reimann
Too much of the discussion around whether or not to vote for Biden revolves around the political positions of the two candidates. Rather, I think we should focus on the consequences if one or the other wins. The main difference is that if Trump gets back in, it will be a huge boost in confidence for the ultra-right, including the outright fascists. Not only that, but it will greatly strengthen Trump's bonapartist tendencies. Some point out that these same claims have been made about previous Republicans and they have always been proven false. That reminds me of the story of the boy who cried "wolf!" The point of that story is that ultimately the wolf DID come. I know some claim that the US is not and never has been a "democracy". This can only mean that the US capitalist class has always ruled through bonapartism (unless those who make that claim think we've been living under fascism). I think these claims actually demonstrate illusions in capitalist (bourgeois) democracy. Of course this form of capitalist rule is necessarily always filled with lies and repression. But it is different from bonapartism. If the capitalist rule in the US is not through the "democratic" form, then where has it ever been? John “Science and socialism go hand-in-hand.” Felicity Dowling Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
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I cannot disagree with anything you said. I guess I’m wondering if it’s a huge betrayal to cast a no vote for Trump (aka vote for Biden) and keep doing all the things that you say about building the power of the working class.
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Mark Lause
You pose the question as though we have to concede to either. Our job is to build the independent power of the working class, which means encouraging independent action in the streets. We favor more, larger, and better organized mass actions. Who the chief of police is going to be isn't really our problem. We get the best results if we apply the only real independent weight we have in the political process. We might be having a different discussion if the Democrats Biden and the other Democrats instinctively respond to any rumor about the demonstors engaging in "violence" by disassociated themselves as quickly and clearly as they can. To calls for defunding the police, Biden promises more funding and more logistical goodies for the police. Like Trump, Biden claims to favor universal medical courage, and--also like Trump--it belies what he's done. Ditto for social security, wars, and other issues. Neither has actually done anything good to address climate change and inequalities. Trump is probably the most piss-poor excuse for a human being that's occupied the White House in my lifetime, and we should thoroughly detest him, his family, his entire criminal party. I particularly hate the fact that he's an omnipresent feature of American life and culture, but realize that this reflects the oft-discussed priorities of corporate media. Still, Trump and his lot do what they do because they all know they can get away with it. They knew and know that Dubya, his CIA daddy, Reagan, and even Nixon never really had their power grabs checked or balanced. Who had the job of checking and balancing that? Who has been whining incessantly about them for the last three years and done virtually nothing to check this trend? Since the aftermath of Nxon, the Democrats have pursued a strategy oriented to getting the kind of donor support that Nixon had, which meant ignoring the needs of the voters and encouraging the Republican to be awful enough to push people to vote Democratic. So nobody can really be surprised that Trump's term has been characterized by more and more objectionable conduct. Their rules for their game is to force us to pick between them.
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Ok I’ll bite. What’s the alternative? Concede to Trump and keep fighting in the streets? Why not elect Biden and keep fighting in the streets? (serious questions)
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—Ryan
On Sep 27, 2020, at 5:19 AM, Louis Proyect <lnp3@...> wrote:
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Louis Proyect
Dan La Botz says vote for Biden to prevent Trump from seizing power like an American Pinochet. Sure. Since BLM-led general strikes have been forcing the bourgeoisie to its knees, there's no alternative.
https://newpol.org/why-im-for-voting-for-biden-and-urge-you-to-do-so/
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