1. marxmail@groups.io
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Re: Green vote?

Mark Lause
 

The Hawkins-Walker campaign faced direct sabotage by the Democrats and through a media that never covered the campaign except to mock it.  The pandemic made traditional physical campaigning very difficult.  It did honorably.  The official count is, of course, inherently a bit undercountered.  I think the campaign has nothing to be ashamed of it.  It did an honest, straightforward job.

That said, we had the usual insanity of having people publicly identified as mouthpieces of the Green Party publicly beating the drum for the Democrats.  I decided some time back not to waste any more time on an organization that has had 30 years to figure that one out and chose not to do so.  The Socialist Party, however, actually does look hopeful.

Cheers,
Mark L.
Re: Green vote?

Richard Modiano
 

Now is not the time to engage with liberals -- they are tremendously emotionally invested in the out come of the election and not ready to face reality yet. 
Trump can issue pardons

Ken Hiebert
 

I won’t be surprised if Trump gives Paul Manafort a pardon. I wondering who else.

And this seems unlikely, but not impossible. Will he start selling pardons?

ken h
‘This isn’t over!’: Trump supporters refuse to accept defeat

Richard Modiano
 

Chanting “This isn’t over!” and “Stop the steal,” supporters of President Donald Trump protested at state capitols across the country Saturday, refusing to accept defeat and echoing Trump’s unsubstantiated allegations that the Democrats won by fraud.

From Atlanta and Tallahassee to Austin, Bismarck, Boise and Phoenix, crowds ranging in size from a few dozen to a few thousand — some of them openly carrying guns — decried the news of Joe Biden’s victory after more than three suspense-filled days of vote-counting put the Democrat over the top. Skirmishes broke out in some cities.
Are knowledge workers part of the proletariat?

judeanpeoplesfront@...
 

Some questions from someone just learning about Marxism:

Are knowledge workers (e.g. software engineers) part of the proletariat? What if they are highly-paid, salaried, and have stock options? If so, do their socioeconomic interests really align better with e.g. service workers barely eking out a living on minimum wage than with successful small business owners living comfortably? What role can such workers play in a bottom-up socialist movement, despite being fairly high in the socioeconomic hierarchy? (I’m thinking of Roger Kulp’s criticism of his local Green Party chapter in a recent marxmail thread*: “The membership consisted almost entirely of upper class, or upper middle class liberals, with more than a touch of elitism in each member.” Although the Greens are not a socialist party, they do purport to fight for labor; and yet this is not the first time I have heard criticism that they—or at least some of their members—are out-of-touch upper-class elitists.)
Re: Is marxmail a good forum for basic questions about Marxism?

Michael Meeropol
 

And there are a lot of possible answers!



For example, "Are knowledge workers (e.g. software engineers) part of the proletariat? What if they are highly-paid, salaried, and have stock options?"

That type of question fits in pretty well to our discussions.

_._,_._,_
Did the United States use biological weapons?

Ken Hiebert
 

Author Nicholson Baker on his new book, freedom of information and America’s psychotic episode




Did the United States use biological weapons on foreign countries it viewed as enemies during the early 1950s?
Re: Is marxmail a good forum for basic questions about Marxism?

judeanpeoplesfront@...
 

For example, "Are knowledge workers (e.g. software engineers) part of the proletariat? What if they are highly-paid, salaried, and have stock options?"

That type of question fits in pretty well to our discussions.

Great, thanks. I’ll pose this exact question in a separate thread then.
Re: What Next?

Dayne Goodwin
 

the better side of the incoming trivial cliche administration that
will be doing PR for the capitalist system in the U.S.:
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/watch-kamala-harris-full-victory-speech-as-vice-president-elect-95525445787

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 6:13 PM <fkalosar101@...> wrote:

Another piece from Jacobin--yeah I know--this is a pretty fair summary of the case against Biden if one is needed. From the mouths of babes ... .

https://jacobinmag.com/2020/11/joe-biden-administration-opposition-push-left
What Next?

fkalosar101@...
 

Another piece from Jacobin--yeah I know--this is a pretty fair summary of the case against Biden if one is needed.  From the mouths of babes ... .

https://jacobinmag.com/2020/11/joe-biden-administration-opposition-push-left
Re: Green vote?

fkalosar101@...
 

Amen to that. I damn near came to blows an hour ago with some arrogant swine of a Democrat in front of the White House.  We started an amiable and intelligent chat about the election and the future, but when I told him I was a socialist he started shouting in a threatening manner that he wasn't interested in my fucking opinion and I should fuck off and let him celebrate.  I won't put in writing what I said to him--or what I think of him or would like to do to him.

These "liberals" are a very bad enemy--the "centrists" are even worse.  All the people out celebrating tonight are IMO fools--the best of them Catholic schoolgirls in heaven about how we now have a real Christian president--sentimental BS.   There's very little to celebrate with Fucker Snarlson on the rise and the "centrists" in Congress scheming to destroy the socialist movement permanently.  Maybe the pandemic gets under control--maybe some degree of governance will be restored to the agencies Trump ravaged--but no more.

The Demos fought hard and successfully to keep the Greens off the ballot.  I'm glad I voted for Hawkins.  Don't know if he wants my support, but there it is.
Re: Don't blame the Cubans! Trump's 43 percent of Florida Jews shows influence of orthodox in Miami and turned the state for him

Dennis Brasky
 

True - if you are together with Zionists who equate Jews with supporters of land theft and Palestinian oppression!


On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 2:52 PM Ryan via groups.io <rjbell=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
I don’t find “blame the Jews instead” an improvement.

—Ryan
Re: Green vote?

Howie Hawkins
 

If you google “election results,” the AP tallies by percent and total votes come up for each state and nationally.

Our Green/Socialist ticket got clobbered. So did progressive Democrats who lined up behind Biden without making any policy demands and who urged a vote for Biden even in safe states. Biden can now ignore them. We will continue: The Green Socialist Opposition to the Next Administration Begins Now.

— Howie Hawkins
Re: Is marxmail a good forum for basic questions about Marxism?

Louis Proyect
 

On 11/7/20 6:02 PM, judeanpeoplesfront via groups.io wrote:
For example, "Are knowledge workers (e.g. software engineers) part of the proletariat? What if they are highly-paid, salaried, and have stock options?"

That type of question fits in pretty well to our discussions.
Is marxmail a good forum for basic questions about Marxism?

judeanpeoplesfront@...
 

I am looking for somewhere to ask *basic* questions about Marxism where I can get nuanced, non-dogmatic responses and debate. Is marxmail a good forum for that, or would such beginner questions be too pedestrian? For example, "Are knowledge workers (e.g. software engineers) part of the proletariat? What if they are highly-paid, salaried, and have stock options?"

I have found other forums like reddit's "debate communism" but was turned off by knee-jerk apologism for totalitarian regimes and a lack of nuance in some of the discussions.
Green vote?

Chris Slee
 

How many votes did Howie Hawkins get?  What about other left candidates?

Chris Slee
Re: Finally

Mark Lause
 

I share the relief, but it will be temporary. Trump has been very good for ratings and will continue to be given lots of air time by the marketers of "news."  MSNBC is being fair and balanced giving plenty of time to the Trumpie-on-the-street.  And the relief at getting rid of Trump is being translated erroneously as tributes to the character of "Honest Joe" Biden, the man of the people.  That hype will ring hollow over the next year.

 “Don't yet rejoice in his defeat, you men!
Although the world stood up and stopped the bastard,
The bitch that bore him is in heat again.”
― Bertolt Brecht
Re: Don't blame the Cubans! Trump's 43 percent of Florida Jews shows influence of orthodox in Miami and turned the state for him

Ryan
 

I don’t find “blame the Jews instead” an improvement.

—Ryan
Don't blame the Cubans! Trump's 43 percent of Florida Jews shows influence of orthodox in Miami and turned the state for him

Dennis Brasky
 

Don't blame the Cubans! Trump's 43 percent of Florida Jews shows influence of orthodox in Miami and turned the state for him, Israel lobbyist Mark Mellman says. Oh and Joe Biden will use "pressure" and "sanctions" to get a "stronger, better, longer" deal from Iran than President Obama got, Mellman says.

https://mondoweiss.net/2020/11/biden-lost-florida-because-of-orthodox-jews-in-miami-democratic-pollster/
Re: Finally

David Walters
 

I tend to agree. Finally, some sense of normalcy might return and no more having to deflect the entirety of the Trump presidency that occupied so much of our political time. Word in that Trump sent a note saying "I won and everyone knows it". A twelve year old. How f'ing sad.