Date   

Supermarkets

jenorem
 

The COVID-19 pandemic has greatly heightened our awareness of our food supply — and the grocery stores we visit to stock up. Grocery workers became even more essential in March and April, as many of the rest of us were sent home to work or were laid off.

But how much do most customers know about what really goes on behind the scenes in our local supermarkets — now or before the pandemic? What's gained and lost as all that food makes its way to the shelves?

Author Benjamin Lorr spent five years looking into that as he studied all aspects of American supermarkets — from the suppliers, the distributors, and supply routes, to the workers in the retail outlets themselves. In the reporting for his new book The Secret Life of Groceries: The Dark Miracle of the American Supermarket, Lorr met with farmers and field workers and spent 120-hours-straight driving the highways with a trucker as she made her multistate rounds. He worked the fish counter at a Whole Foods market for a few months, and went to trade shows to learn about entrepreneurs who were trying to break into the industry. He also traveled to Asia to learn about commodity fishing – finding human rights violations along his journey.



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Organizing the Oppressed with Mara

Louis Proyect
 

Rudy and Annie join the two co-chairs of Philly Socialists, Mara and Janaya, for what starts as a conversation on the issues women and non-men comrades face when organizing, and ends up being a discussion of Philly Socialists’ base-building activities and their philosophy on the party. The episode starts off with a discussion of the experiences in PS to make the spaces more welcoming to everyone, the role of child-care and of strong sexual harassment policies, and how to provide spaces for everyone to become leaders.

https://cosmonaut.blog/2020/11/08/organizing-the-oppressed-with-mara-janaya-of-philly-socialists/


Re: Green vote?

ratbagradio@...
 

Here are a  couple of articles from GLW about recent electoral experiences in Australia:

  • Greens advance as Labor returned in Qld election: "The most important result of the Queensland election is the advance of the Greens. The Greens have increased their representation from one to at least two members of parliament."
  • Four socialists elected to Melbourne councils:

    There has been a surge of support for socialist candidates in the Victorian local councils elections, with four socialists elected to three councils. The postal vote ran from October 6-23.

    Sue Bolton, standing with a team of Socialist Alliance members and independents, was re-elected to the City of Moreland Council for a third term, winning 12.1% of the vote. 

    Jorge Jorquera from the Victorian Socialists was elected to Maribyrnong council for the first time, receiving 8.76%.

    Stephen Jolly and Brigid O’Brien were re-elected to the Yarra Council with 26.07% and 15.13% of the vote respectively. This will be Jolly’s fifth term as councillor.

    Other socialists also received significant votes: Sarah Hathway (Socialist Alliance) received 15.81% in the Greater Geelong council; George Kanjere (Victorian Socialists VS) received 12.6% in Darebin Council; Liz Walsh (VS) received 10.61% in Maribyrnong Council and Nahui Jimenez (VS) received 10% in Moreland Council.


Austria: Scandalous Bann of a Rally against Islamophobe Racism!

RKOB
 

Austria: Scandalous Bann of a Rally against Islamophobe Racism!

Minister for Interior suppresses freedom of speech … in the name of freedom of speech

Statement of Michael Pröbsting, Spokesperson of the RKO LIBERATION (Austrian Section of the RCIT), 9. November 2020

https://www.thecommunists.net/worldwide/europe/austria-scandalous-bann-of-a-rally-against-islamophobe-racism/

-- 
Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG
(Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, www.thecommunists.net)
www.rkob.net
aktiv@...
Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314

Virenfrei. www.avast.com


Re: Trump backers tricked into joining ‘Gay Communists for Socialism’ on Facebook | Facebook | The Guardian

Roger Kulp
 

Would this be the Kiwi Gay Communists for Socialism or the Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism group?


Re: Green vote?

Dayne Goodwin
 

I think that marxists/revolutionary socialists engage in electoral
politics as a subsidiary tactic in a strategy of building a working
class organization/party that will eventually be capable of a
significant leadership role in mobilizing revolutionary mass action
(i.e. "mass strike" as Rosa Luxemburg described what she saw in Russia
(Russian occupied Poland) in 1905. Revolutionary socialists don't
engage in the capitalists' "democratic" political system looking for
eventual 'success' within that system but in order to overthrow that
system, replace it with workers' democracy.

Since imo there was no revolutionary socialist presidential election
campaign to support, i voted for the Green Party's Walker/Hawkins
ticket in the presidential election as my best choice. I found in my
limited (old age in a pandemic) social and political interactions that
saying i was voting for the Green Party Walker/Hawkins ticket often
opened up an opportunity to explain my views on the capitalists'
two-party political system and the need for a politically independent
working class party (sometimes even on socialism and revolution).

Although the Green Party's presidential candidates this year are
revolutionary-socialist-minded individuals, i don't think the Green
Party in the U.S. is today or ever has been a revolutionary socialist
party. As i understand Mark to suggest, there probably needs to be a
massive class struggle upsurge to make the creation of such a party
possible.

Dayne

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 4:14 PM Mark Lause <markalause@...> wrote:

An emphasis on local and state action is not unreasonable, but the history of insurgent parties that do not field some sort of national ticket is not especially good. Rather understandably, the two dominant parties use the opportunity to rip any threatening third party to pieces.

As to building up a power base, any decision to run a lot of local candidates won't mean beans if you don't have enough engaged people to even fill the ticket, much what you need to actually elect people. None of it matters unless there's a serious organization with an engaged membership behind it.

Ditto the talk about a united front of the left in the elections. This should have happened fifty years ago but there were reasons it didn't. Those same reasons are there. They will never take any initiatives to cooperate. This will not happen until there's a genuine pull towards that unity from the outside of these groups. The great historic failure of the Greens actually lies right there.


What now?

Gary MacLennan
 

I think we all agree on this list that the defeat of Trump was a source for rejoicing. However I am being driven mad on twitter by those people who think that Biden will do something for the Irish and others that he will help the English because Johnson was close to Trump. 

It reminds me of people who see the face of Jesus in tea cups or in lichen or in clouds.

Not happening.

But the real purpose of this post is to contribute to the discussion - what will Trump do now?  I have already commented elsewhere on the psycho babble that his niece is putting out about how Trump will bring us all down with him. That is self-serving rubbish.

The real question is whether Trump will call for an armed mobilization of his followers. The English media personality and former Leftist @paulmasonnews has asked this very question.

I think myself that there is no way that Trump will try a Beer Hall type putsch or a Mussolini style march on Washington. Hitler's 1923 putsch failed because he had not secured the support of capital. He got that in 1932. Mussolini  had the support of the monarchy, the military and big business. There is no evidence that Trump can marshal any support of that kind.

So he has a handful of militias and I think in military terms they are worthless. They can commit murder and do dastardly deeds but they cannot seize state power IMO. As well I think there would be an oppositional surge from the youth that would smash any fascist putsch.

But we will see

comradely

Gary




Re: Green vote?

Mark Lause
 

An emphasis on local and state action is not unreasonable, but the history of insurgent parties that do not field some sort of national ticket is not especially good.  Rather understandably, the two dominant parties use the opportunity to rip any threatening third party to pieces. 

As to building up a power base, any decision to run a lot of local candidates won't mean beans if you don't have enough engaged people to even fill the ticket, much what you need to actually elect people.  None of it matters unless there's a serious organization with an engaged membership behind it.

Ditto the talk about a united front of the left in the elections.  This should have happened fifty years ago but there were reasons it didn't.  Those same reasons are there.  They will never take any initiatives to cooperate.  This will not happen until there's a genuine pull towards that unity from the outside of these groups.  The great historic failure of the Greens actually lies right there.

Cheers,
Mark L.





This isn’t over!’: Trump supporters refuse to accept defeat

John Obrien
 

Mike,

You are correct that prejudicial attacks based on ethnicity and race - are unacceptable.

And also agree that avoiding the usage of words and language, to cause further division,
in characterizing religious believers "as lesser" humans, rather than just superstitious, 
fearful followers of reactionary religions.

Presently, we are in serious trouble with a large part of the populace moving rightward
in the U. S. and many other nations and a weak disorganized left and a weak organized
labor movement, that is mostly incapable of being serious to end capitalist greed and harm
to all life on this planet.  

Trump seeks full power and control, or maneuvering in using his supporters to get the
concessions of the main capitalist sector leaders to avoid further conflict and disruptions,
in Trump wanting full pardon for all his crimes around emolument violation corruption,        
illegal tax evasion and possibly treason when records become more accessible. 
 (Perhaps even wanting exemption from his creditors using the courts, to seize his properties 
for the various monies due and non-payments.)  

The discussions taking place by his supporters, is troubling and despite his tweets not
being carried by the main corporate owned media, his followers are communicating
with each other about occupying federal buildings, assembling at the U. S. Supreme
Court (including armed militia groups) - and many police indicating refusal to stop them.

It is why I made the determination to support Biden, to try and stop the mainly
right wing religious forces, following their ministers and pastors seeking power to
install a authoritarian Trump regime, that promotes a theocratic controlled society
and nation.   The blind and infantile leftists, weighed down with privilege, do not
want to recognize the organized international threat of these right wing religious
adherents.  The U. S. left (and much the same in other nations), is mainly academics
and students, who talk loud and do little else, while the right wing trains its adherents
to learn how to physically fight and use weapons.  

Religion is the opium addiction of many.  The U. S. left has been unwilling and
uncomfortable, with dealing with religion, sex and consumerist destruction.  
These are obstacles to needed revolutionary awareness and ending capitalism.     

This list moderated by Luis, has been very informative from many contributors
on history and economics.   He also started it for the purpose of overcoming the
political sectarians and leading to the creation and effectiveness of a unified Left.

The Green Party has not offered that.  They did not even have a Teamsters for
Howie Hawkins formation, that seems obvious, to do actual labor outreach by
that party's electioneering.   It was never done and not due to the pandemic
but to no serious outreach, to the grass roots rank and file, of organized labor..
        


From: Mike Sola <mikesola@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 11:11 AM

Subject: Re: This isn’t over!’: Trump supporters refuse to accept defeat
 
John,

I am in no way defending the Catholic Church. I left it too decades ago. I am objecting to fklosar using the term "mackerel-snapping," which is in no way a critique of Catholicism, but an attack on Biden (and of course all Catholics) simply for being Catholic. It's a way of mocking, not political critique.

If I am not mistaken, he did something similar once before with the term "greaser," referring to Cuomo using the Italian-American slur. Marxists shouldn't be doing that.


Regards,


Mike



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On working-class versus ‘middle-class’-Part 1

John A Imani
 

On working-class versus ‘middle-class’

Part 1

 

“In studying such transformations it is always necessary to distinguish between the material transformation of the economic conditions of production, which can be determined with the precision of natural science, and the legal, political, religious artistic or philosophic–in short, ideological forms in which men become conscious of this conflict and fight it outK. Marx, “A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy.” Preface.” https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/preface.htm

 

Prima facie, accepting the above from Marx, damned if the above ain't a difference that can be analogized (applied) so as to differentiate between a scientific economic category, the working class, and the so-called 'middle class’ which, IMO, is a sociological convention, a ‘state of mind’--‘upper’ and ‘lower’ class too--that is of a "...legal, political, religious, artistic or philosophic–in short, ideological forms in which men become conscious of this conflict and fight it out."

 

Let me start again. I read "material transformation of the economic conditions" not just as being technical changes in the means of production but also as fundamental changes in the modes of production and, by that changes in the nature of the classes to be found therein. Such as, for instance, a change in status of a man from being an Independent Worker IW (1) perhaps, running after prey armed with bow and arrows of his own fashioning--to being a slave B (2) who had been captured while trying to run away from a predator armed with factory manufactured cannon and musket. The hunting predator become captured prey (3). This change of class status is, obviously, independent of what the ‘prey’ thinks, i.e. from his ‘state of mind’.

 

But when, with repetition of cruelties, in direct proportion, to the same extent, as mental as physical, over centuries of generations, as these come to be imbued, inbred, into the mind and body of the slaves then one can see how it is that the difference between the "House Negro" and the field hand (4) could come to resemble the class distinction that it is not. It is ‘caste’-like but not even classic caste (being something one is born into and dies with) as this 'caste'-like privilege that is bestowed by, can be stripped away by the Other, the 'Massah', at this one’s whim.

 

And just as surely are the affects of the 'class-like' mien of the upper-paid levels of today's working-class. (5). The fact that they can be fired at the will of the Other, the Owner—may be out of their consciousness but its still buried in, burned into, their sub-consciousnesses—but such a fact is abandoned, allying them with the capitalist against their own interests, against their own class, against their own brother and sister members, who are not paid enough to be, what the capitalist has taught them that they, the formers, are 'middle class'. Even ‘upper middle class'.

 

But, quantitatively, just what is 'middle class'? 50G's, 100G's??? Where is the dividing point? If it is 50G's then is the person making $49,999.99 not in the same ‘class’ as the 50G + 1er?  Is it something that like the castigation (but not the economic category, i.e. class) as it is pejoratively used, that term 'petit-bourgeois'--itself a scientifically determined class--that is hurled outwards by too many self-asserted and self-assured hands guided by ill-informed ‘Marxist’ 'minds'? Meaning it must be a something like a "We'll know it when we see it." Is economic class that superficial? That ill-defined?


What else does the history of ideas prove, than that intellectual production changes its character in proportion as material production is changed? The ruling ideas of each age have ever been the ideas of its ruling class.” (6)

 

That’s where the bullshit comes from. From the ruling class. A ruling class, the bourgeois capitalist class, that has subverted, stolen away from us, the community and commonality of our own humanity. And should the better paid members of the ’middle class’ continue in the errs of their ways then they too will be trashed into history’s ashcan alongside the masters they gladly and greedily served.

 

(1) --all classes, such as the IW, postulated here will be placed on a solid, scientific if you will, basis in a second part to this posting which will not, it is more than likely, be posted today.

 

(2) ‘B’ for ‘boundsman’ (sic). In Marx’ economics ‘s’ has historically been assigned as the abbreviation for surplus-value.

 

(3) “What’s this ole world coming to, things just ain’t the same, anytime the hunter,,,gets captured (as) the game.” Very slight paraphrase of “Hunter gets captured by the Game.” “Martha and the Vandellas.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31nep7Rvw3k

 

(4) Malcolm X. “The House Negro and the Field Negro.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwgJewsy2BI

 

(5) “We shall assume that he is a mere wage-labourer, even one of the better paid, for all the difference it makes. Whatever his pay, as a wage-labourer he works part of his time for nothing.” “Vol 2.” Chap 6. p132. http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1885-c2/ch06.htm

 

JAI

 


Re: Is marxmail a good forum for basic questions about Marxism?

Gibbons Brian
 

Re: MLB player salaries

See

https://www.statista.com/statistics/256187/minimum-salary-of-players-in-major-league-baseball/  

These minimum (starting) salaries are a result of bargaining by their union; MLB Players Assn.

I guess its all relative given the the surplus value players generate for the owners and the additional subsidies most owners receive from local taxpayers for the privilege of having a home team.

Brian Gibbons


Re: This isn’t over!’: Trump supporters refuse to accept defeat

Gibbons Brian
 

Use of ethic/religious slurs

I agree... doing so is simply self-indulgent

Brian Gibbons


Re: Green vote?

Richard Modiano
 

"There are no liberal Democrats any more"

I was not talking about Democrats. I was referring to people who are appalled at Trump's attack on reproductive rights, LGBTQ rights, immigrant rights, his border concentration camps, caging children, etc. but who fail to draw the connection between these injustices and capitalist property relations. These are the kind of people who vote for the "lesser of two evils" but are NOT Democratic Party stalwarts.

Trump's defeat comes as incredible relief to them, and they are superstitiously hopeful that a Biden/Harris administration will make everything right, so that to criticize Biden now will somehow jinx any return to "normal" that may be in the offing. 

Instead of trying to stigmatize everybody who disagrees with us we should look for allies.  If socialists ever reach state power in this country we will need SOME liberals and even some centrists supporting us or cooperating with us or there will be no governing majority.  Doing the ground work isn't easy.  It is grueling. It is sometimes disheartening. It is arduous.  There is no immediate satisfaction. And it is always always always a long-term project that stretches into years and often decades.  You do not reach socialism or anything near it in one or two election cycles out of the blue.


Re: Green vote?

Howie Hawkins
 

The Greens have been following Ryan’s advice about focusing on local races. The Greens have won over 1200 elections over the years and have over 100 elected to local office currently.

The Greens ran over 200 down ballot candidates this year and won at least 10 races: https://www.gp.org/2020_candidates.

That can be scaled up from the hundreds to the thousands.

A major objective of Green presidential campaigns is to secure ballot lines. In 40 of the 50 states, the presidential vote affects whether the Greens have a ballot line for the next election cycle. 

It is much easier to get on the ballot with a qualified ballot line than independent nominating petitions, which in most states require orders of magnitude more signatures. 2020 was a difficult year for the Greens given the big anybody-but-Trump vote. The Greens got wiped off the ballot in a number of states after this presidential election, including New York and North Carolina. 

Thanks to a new election law attached to the state budget by the Democrats in April while attention was focused on the pandemic, the number of votes was tripled and the frequency doubled from every four years to every two years to qualify for the ballot for the next election cycle. To get back on the ballot, NY now has the hardest independent nomination petition signature requirement of any state in the nation — 45,000 signatures in a six-week window, which means 90,000 signatures to withstand the inevitable Democratic petition challenge.

It took the Greens 30 years of lawsuits, law changes, and petitioning to get ballot status in NC for the first time this year. The independent nomination petition in NC is now not as difficult as NY, but doing it will be a lot harder than having a ballot line and all the petitioning will drain time and money from the campaigns.

Republican voter suppression is despicable. The failure of Democrats in charge as Secretaries of States and Governors in states like Michigan and North Carolina to restore the voter registrations of mainly black people purged by their GOP predecessors is just as bad. The Democrats complicity in this voter suppression seems to me to reflect two objectives on the part of Democratic leaders. One is the fear of white Democratic leaders of black competitors. The other is that it helps the corporate wing defeat progressive challengers in primaries.

For the Greens, the Democrat’s party suppression efforts against the Green Party is another form of voter suppression. Most Green voters don't’ vote if the Greens are not on the ballot. Exit polls from 2016 showed that 61% of Jill Stein voters would have stayed home. 

Running for office is about as full of expression of 1st Amendment freedoms as there is — free speech, petitioning the government for redress of grievances, free press. The Democrats’ suppression of the Green Party by ballot petition challenges and rulings in the courts about the challenges by Democratic partisan hacks sitting on the bench is about as authoritarian as it gets. Changing the laws to kill the Green Party is another method. As the NY Times headline read when they got wind of the NY election law change that passed this year, “Democrats’ Secret Plan to Kill Third Parties.”

The media narrative about the law change was that Cuomo was going after the party’s annoying progressive wing, the Working Families Party, that sometimes supports primary challengers but always puts the Democrats other line in the general elections, including Cuomo three times. But Cuomo came clean this weak in a radio interview where he said, "We always expected the Working Families Party to survive," he said. "It was set deliberately so. We always expected the Conservative Party to survive.” The Conservatives almost always run Republicans on their line. So New York now has two parties with two ballot lines each and no independent alternatives.

Greens think Cuomo has been coming for us after we got 5% for governor in 2014 when he wanted to run up his vote to get ready to run for president, get more than his father Mario ever got, get more than he got when he was first elected in 2010. He got less and couldn’t take our 5% of the voters for granted. To compete for those voters, he adopted a number of our demands that he had not supported before, including a ban on fracking, a $15 minimum wage, and paid family leave. Cuomo was not happy about that.

Greens will be back running local candidates in the next few years, even if it means more ballot access petitioning. Greens understand that building a political base and foothold in the political system through local elections is the foundation for winning seats in state legislatures and the House and advancing real solutions to the problem of climate, poverty, racism, and war.


Re: Green vote?

David Walters
 

Why don't these groups stop running for President? It's irrelevant and stupid, IMHO. If you are going to actually build an alternative you need to make elections campaigns *serious*. Running for Prez it not at all serious. In fact it's a huge deflection on what has to be done on a local level...which is, as part of the election tactic, to run a very serious campaign as if one is going to actually win. I think in some ways Socialist Resurgence, a group I have no affiliation with whatsoever, gets this, when they ran one of their members for State representative. Makes sense. Socialist Alternative also gets it though i detest their support for Democrats, they do choose seats the can actually win. Work from the bottom up, not the top down.

David Walters


Re: What Trump represented

Greg McDonald
 

From wiki:


The United States Constitution does not specify a notion of pledging; no federal law or constitutional statute binds an elector's vote to anything. All pledging laws originate at the state level;[5][6] the U.S. Supreme Court upheld these state laws in its 1952 ruling Ray v. Blair. In 2020, the Supreme Court also ruled in Chiafalo v. Washington that states are free to enforce laws that bind electors to voting for the winner of the popular vote in their state.[7]


What's next II

Louis Proyect
 

(Posted to FB by Anthony DiMaggio.)

Today is the day I get to be the unceremonial wet towel for all my liberal friends who are breathing (understandably) a sigh of relief now that the malignant narcissistic, wannabe fascist, has been defeated. This was never really about Trump. This nation is teetering on the brink of disaster and collapse, between the mounting climate crisis, a broken economy, and the Covid crisis. But the failure to respond to these challenges is a product of a longstanding dysfunctional political culture that's been building for years (decades). It's going to take years to climb out from under this mess, if we are able to do it at all. And one major problem is that we have a fundamentally broken political system. We now have a White House populated by relatively sane competent neoliberal managers who are not going to put forward an agenda (without mass pressure) to combat the defining challenges of our time, including record inequality, ecological devastation, and rampant racism and white supremacy, among countless other problems. The other political party has totally abdicated when it comes to any notions of responsible governance. The cuckoo birds have taken it over, and it is now dominated by conspiratorialism, white supremacy, militant anti-science, and authoritarian/ascendant fascist politics. A country can't survive with that sort of status quo moving into the future. It's totally unsustainable and is going to end in disaster. We have to keep this in mind, as we hear calls to "get past" our differences with white nationalist enablers, conspiratorial Qanon sympathatizers, and climate change flat earthers. And the pathological notion, held by at least a third of the public (those infamous non-voters), that we can now get past politics after election day and sweep everything that's happened in the last four years under the rug needs to be rejected outright. We desperately need a real progressive mass movement. And that's not going to be built by ignoring the dual threats of rising reactionary extremism and pathological apoliticism. The rest of the world knows the U.S. is one election away from a return of the cuckoo birds to power. The sooner we join the rest of the world in recognizing the horrific threats, the better.


Re: Green vote?

Louis Proyect
 

On 11/8/20 1:37 PM, Ryan via groups.io wrote:
Why don’t Greens and other modern socialist parties start by running down ballot candidates that can actually do some good in local politics instead of putting all their effort into repeated failed attempts at the highest office in the land. That’s proved itself to be a dead end strategy. Do what DSA is doing but in a new party. 

Here's what Scott McLarty said about that on FB:

 I posted the following on Green Party FB pages (I'm former media director of the party):
Surviving Point Two Percent
Green presidential nominee Howie Hawkins got .2% on Election Day. This was predictable. I predicted it in an article published two weeks ago.
The Green Party needs to stop making the Green presidential nominee's numbers on Election Day the main measure of the party's progress.
There are some years in which the enthusiasm for defeating the Republican nominee is so strong that voters who might otherwise vote Green instead feel compelled to hold their noses and vote Democrat.
That's what happened in 2004, when both David Cobb (Green nominee) and Ralph Nader (Independent and a nationally famous public figure) received under half of one percent. It happened in 2008 when Barack Obama was so popular.
That was the dynamic in the 2020 election. "Dump Trump" meant a vote for Biden. (And who can argue with Dump Trump?)
The race for the White House is a multi-billion-dollar spectacle. It's necessary for the Green Party to run presidential campaigns for a list of reasons I don't need to rehearse here. But the Green Party should never invest its future in a presidential campaign.
It shouldn't matter if the presidential candidate gets a small fraction of one percent if the Green Party can rack up important wins in down-ticket races, like mayoral candidate Emmanuel Estrada's victory in Baldwin Park, California on Tuesday.
The party's top priority should be to get at least a half dozen Greens seated in state legislatures. In my opinion, too many of our best Green candidates mount unwinnable campaigns for Congress when they should really run for statehouse, county commission, and municipal council seats.
The party needs to build up a real base of power -- as opposed to imaginary power that comes with participating in a multi-billion-dollar spectacle -- and that means winning lots of seats at state & local levels. The Green Party will only have a future when we achieve that.


This isn’t over!’: Trump supporters refuse to accept defeat

Ken Hiebert
 

John Obrien has brought together a strong indictment of the Catholic Church. With a little effort we could make a similar indictment against the Protestant church and against Islamic and Jewish religious institutions, and others no doubt.

The term "mackerel-snapping” does not communicate any of this indictment. I think Mike Sola is entirely correct in seeing this expression as a slur directed not at the church but at Catholics as such, often with the intent of putting down people of an inferior social status.

ken h


Re: This isn’t over!’: Trump supporters refuse to accept defeat

Mike Sola
 

John,

I am in no way defending the Catholic Church. I left it too decades ago. I am objecting to fklosar using the term "mackerel-snapping," which is in no way a critique of Catholicism, but an attack on Biden (and of course all Catholics) simply for being Catholic. It's a way of mocking, not political critique.

If I am not mistaken, he did something similar once before with the term "greaser," referring to Cuomo using the Italian-American slur. Marxists shouldn't be doing that.


Regards,


Mike

------------

“The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.”

—Julius Nyerere, first president of Tanzania after decolonization 

On 11/8/2020 1:40 PM, John Obrien wrote:
Mike, 

I am a worker and left the Catholic Church at age 13, when I understood the hypocrisy and superstition.

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