NY Times, Sept. 22, 2020
Amid the Outpouring for Ginsburg, a Hint of Backlash
By Jennifer Schuessler
The internet had learned to love Ruth Bader Ginsburg, so it was
not surprising that when the news of her death broke on Friday
evening, social media lit up with outpourings of love and
admiration for this diminutive octogenarian who had been cast as
an iron-pumping, dissent-slinging legal ninja.
But those who celebrated her as a one-woman bulwark against the
collapse of democracy might have been surprised by something
else that bubbled up. Within hours of her death, there also
appeared more than a little snarking about the pop-hagiography
around her, edged with insinuating questions about just how
far-ranging her vision of equality was.
Some noted her poor record of hiring Black law clerks and her
comments in 2016 (which she later apologized for) calling Colin
Kaepernick’s national anthem protests “dumb” and
“disrespectful.”
Others re-upped longstanding critiques of R.B.G.-mania, and
perhaps even of the judge herself, as reflecting a myopic “white
feminism.” On Twitter, there were calls to remember those “left
behind” by the brand of feminism Justice Ginsburg supposedly
advanced, along with mocking references to the public grief over
her death as a “white women’s 9/11.”
“What conception of women’s rights, and what kind of feminist
movement, might have died with Ginsburg?,” Melissa Gira Grant
wrote in The New Republic, questioning what she called “the
false idea of Ginsburg as liberal or feminist savior.”
The whiff of a backlash reflects longstanding tensions within
feminism, as a movement sometimes criticized for being
symbolized by, and primarily serving, middle-class white women
has been challenged by a perspective that emphasizes the
interplay of race, class, gender and other factors. It’s a
tension that has only grown amid the Black Lives Matter protests
of the past summer, as some have questioned whether a highly
empowered older white woman ensconced in an elite institution
was a fit hero for the moment.
But some who share the broader critique of feminism say that
seeing Justice Ginsburg as a symbol of a blinkered white
perspective is as reductive as an R.B.G. sticker.
“As a Black person, I definitely would have liked to see her be
more forward thinking on racial justice issues over the past few
years,” Imani Gandy, senior editor for law and policy at Rewire
News and co-host of the “Boom! Lawyered” podcast, said. “But
denigrating her as an out-of-touch white feminist is a real
disservice.”
“There’s this weird demonization vibe that’s really blowback
from a lot of the R.B.G. feminist cult-icon stuff that she
didn’t ask for,” she said.
Justice Ginsburg’s towering reputation as a legal thinker rests
on work she pioneered in the 1970s, through the American Civil
Liberties Union’s Women’s Rights Project, which she co-founded.
In a string of landmark cases, she successfully challenged the
Supreme Court’s view that the equal protection clause of the
14th amendment guarded only against racial discrimination, but
permitted sex discrimination (which was often justified as being
for women’s own good).
But her fan culture is of much more recent vintage, and springs,
paradoxically, from her defeats, rather than her victories. In
2013, Justice Ginsburg issued a blistering dissent in Shelby
County v. Holder, denouncing the Court’s invalidation of central
portions of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 on the grounds that
they were no longer necessary “like throwing away your umbrella
in a rainstorm because you are not getting wet.”
The dissent, which Justice Ginsburg read aloud from the bench,
drew an electric response. The digital strategist Aminatou Sow,
and the designer Frank Chi posted stickers reading “You Can’t
Spell Truth Without Ruth” around Washington. The dissent also
set off an explosion of online memes, cataloged in the Notorious
R.B.G. Tumblr account started by Shana Knizhnik, a law student.
The journalist Irin Carmon, who, with Ms. Knizhnik, wrote a 2015
book inspired by the Tumblr account, said that Justice Ginsburg
became famous as a “symbol of dissent” as much as of feminism,
and that the meme culture was not just about her, but about what
she was calling attention to.
“And it’s always been important that the genesis was Shelby
County,” she said. “As important as her women’s rights work was
her broader commitment to equal justice and civil rights.”
Ms. Sow, now an author and host of the podcast “Call Your
Girlfriend,” said that some criticisms of the tote-bag version
of R.B.G. fandom were warranted. “It speaks to a real laziness
in our culture to elevate people and think you’ve done the
work,” she said.
But she pushed back against what she said were facile critiques
of Justice Ginsburg’s legal work as “white lady” feminism.
“The reason so many young people get to be blasé or cool” by
trashing Justice Ginsburg’s record as insufficiently radical, or
overly tied to institutions and incremental change, she said,
“is that she created this world where people are free to do
that.”
“She seems like this older relic,” Ms. Sow, who is 35,
continued. “But the point of being a trailblazer is she gets to
age into a world where people my age don’t have to remember how
hard it was. I mean, not too long before I was born, women
couldn’t even get a credit card.”
Some legal scholars argue that Ginsburg’s work, particularly as
a litigator, was more intersectional — a term the legal scholar
Kimberlé Crenshaw coined in 1989 to describe the complex ways
gender, race and other aspects of identity interact — than is
commonly acknowledged.
Melissa Murray, a professor at New York University Law School
who focuses on family law and reproductive justice, noted that
Justice Ginsburg’s first brief filed to the Supreme Court, in
the 1971 case Reed v. Reed, also credited as co-authors the
African-American legal scholar Pauli Murray and the leftist
feminist Dorothy Kenyon, who had pioneered the legal theories
she drew on.
“She was always very explicit in her career about giving
appropriate deference and respect to the role of Pauli Murray,
who was not only an African-American jurist, and largely
forgotten until recently, but also a queer woman,” Professor
Murray said.
Justice Ginsburg’s cases as a lawyer, including a 1973 challenge
to North Carolina’s forced sterilization program, often involved
working-class or poor plaintiffs, including women of color.
Professor Murray also noted a little-known amicus brief that
Ginsburg co-wrote in a 1977 Supreme Court case challenging the
constitutionality of a Georgia law allowing the death penalty
for rape.
That brief, filed while she worked at the A.C.L.U., addressed
the unequal application of the law in cases of Black men
convicted of raping white women, criticizing it for reinforcing
both patriarchal and racist ideas by treating white women as the
property of white men and Black men as dangerous interlopers.
“It’s a real rebuke to people who argue her feminism did not
take account of race,” Professor Murray said. “It very clearly
did, in a profound way.”
Fatima Goss Graves, the president and chief executive of the
National Women’s Law Center, also questioned any implication
that Justice Ginsburg, either as a lawyer or a judge, had
represented an elitist vision of equality.
In her dissents, Ms. Goss Graves said, Justice Ginsburg
repeatedly chided the Court for failing to understand how
discrimination worked in the real world. She noted what turned
out to be Justice Ginsburg’s last dissent, issued in July, in a
contraceptive case, which argued that the court’s ruling would
leave many poor women unable to afford birth control.
“She was deeply unafraid to name the many problems with the
decisions coming out of the majority, and to do it in a way that
put the lives of regular people forward,” Ms. Goss Graves said.
The parsing of Justice Ginsburg’s full legal legacy will be a
project of decades. But in the more immediate term, debates
about her suitability as a rallying point and icon may have less
to do with her than with the limited cultural space granted to
“great” women, who have been as rare in our acknowledged public
pantheon as on the Supreme Court.
“Individuals who come to bear representative weight are always
going to embody contradiction and imperfection,” Rebecca
Traister, a writer for New York magazine and the author of “Good
and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women’s Anger,” said. “Those
who become symbols can be so easily torn down.”
The majority of folks teaching higher ed are adjuncts, and they certainly are in no position to protest. I didn't even hear about it until day 2 and since I teach online, this doesn't even really apply since students are working on the lesson when they want to. What this ends up is that folks like me don't answer student emails for two days.
Sure I support this in every sense, but it points out how little tenured folks think about the rest of us who do the lion share of teaching for a 1/5 of the pay and how we are not included in these "actions". I wrote about it in the "announcements" section I have in the class that the students must read, so they were at least aware this was happening.
An Indigenous Canadian Journalist Was Covering a
Protest. Then He Got Arrested.
He is one of four reporters arrested
while covering Indigenous affairs in a country that has been
trying to make amends for its colonial past.
Karl
Dockstader, an Indigenous radio reporter, is blocked
from reporting on a major Indigenous event in his own
backyard.Credit...Tara
Walton for The New York Times
OTTAWA
— The land was theirs, the Indigenous protesters said, and
so they tried to prevent the housing project near Niagara
Falls from going forward — burning tires to block a highway,
spray-painting slogans on the construction company’s
equipment and setting an excavator on fire.
The
demonstrations didn’t get much national attention, but Karl
Dockstader, a local Indigenous reporter, thought it was a
big story.
As
the protests grew larger over the summer, he returned
repeatedly to the site, finally deciding to pitch a tent
nearby to do more in-depth reporting.
Then
he received an email from the Ontario Provincial Police.
They wanted to meet with him.
When he showed up, the
police arrested him, and charged him with criminal mischief,
and with violatingan injunction against the blockade. Now, as he
awaits resolution of the case, Mr. Dockstader, who is
co-host of a weekly talk radio program that focuses on
Indigenous issues, is himself blocked from reporting on a
major Indigenous event in his own backyard.
Mr.
Dockstader’s arrest is one of four recent arrests of
reporters covering Indigenous protests in Canada, and
journalism andcivil rights groupsimmediately
leapt to his defense. Canada’s constitutional guarantee of
freedom of speech includes freedom of the press as a
“fundamental freedom.”
“It’s
an abuse of power,” said Brent Jolly, the president ofCanadian Association
of Journalists. “And it’s a pretty effective way for
them to shut down debate.”
Pamela
Palmater, a Mi’kmaq lawyer who holds a chair in Indigenous
law at Ryerson University in Toronto, said the arrests also
suggest an effort to silence coverage of Indigenous issues,
which could undermine the country’s efforts under Prime
Minister Justin Trudeau to make reconciliation with
Indigenous people for past wrongs.
“It’s preventing our
stories, our side, our version from getting out there,
whether it’s an Indigenous or non-Indigenous journalist who
has been arrested, it runs counter to reconciliation,” Ms.
Palmater said.
Image
Broadcast
media in February reporting at a railway blockade
supporting the indigenous Wet’suwet’en Nation, in St.
Lambert, Quebec.Credit...Christinne Muschi/Reuters
“To
achieve the goal of reconciliation better understanding of
aboriginal issues and aboriginal peoples is needed,”the judges wrote. “This places
heightened importance on ensuring that
independently-reported information on aboriginal issues,
including aboriginal protests, is available to the extent
possible.”
The
court also strongly criticized the trial court for not
considering Mr. Brake’s status as a journalist,writingthat an injunction can
limit “freedom of the press and, in appropriate cases like
the present one, the protection of rights pertaining to
Indigenous interests.”
In
February, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police arrested Melissa
Cox, a documentary filmmaker from New York, atan Indigenous rail blockade in
British Columbia,again saying she broke
an injunction. A court dismissed those charges last month,
without explanation.
About
two weeks after Mr. Dockstader was arrested, another
reporter covering the blockade, Starla Myers, was also
arrested by the Ontario police, and charged with two
criminal counts of mischief and disobeying a court order.
Ms.
Myers, a member of the Mohawk Turtle Clan and a nurse who
also works for the Mohawk-owned websiteReal Peoples Media, is now under similar
restrictions as those imposed on Mr. Dockstader.
The office of Carolyn
Bennett, the federal minister responsible for relations, did
not comment directly on the arrests but said that when it
comes to reconciliation, “we believe the best way to resolve
outstanding issues is through respectful and collaborative
dialogue,” adding that “a strong, independent, and free
press is essential.” A spokeswoman for Doug Ford, the
Ontario premier, referred questions about the arrests to the
police.
Not
only do these outlets employ Indigenous journalists, they
are often the first or only news organizations to report on
Indigenous matters.
“The
arrests are particularly egregious when the small number of
Indigenous journalists in this country are also prevented
from covering their own stories,” Dr. Palmater said.
Mr.
Dockstader, 40, is the host, along with Sean Vanderklis, of“One Dish, One Mic,”which was a
podcast but became an AM radio station, CKTB, a year ago.
The show focuses on local Indigenous issues in Caledonia,
Ontario, which includes the community of theSix Nations of the Grand River.
Mr.
Dockstader, a Haudenosaunee member of the Oneida Bear Clan,
grew up in southwestern Ontario as well as Buffalo, N.Y.,
and worked as a chef for about 15 years.
Mr. Dockstader is also the
language program coordinator at thenative friendship
center in Fort Erie,Ontario, which
provides services and activities for Indigenous people in
the city.
The story he was covering
began on July 20, when about a dozen people gathered to
block construction of a housing development they contend is
being built on Indigenous land. As was the case at ablockade elsewhere in Ontario earlier this year,
they raised Six Nations flags and painted “1492 Land Back
Lane” on a construction container, a mock reference to
Christopher Columbus’s arrival in the Americas.
Image
Protesters
have occupied a parcel of land in Caledonia, Ontario,
since July as part of an effort to halt construction of
a housing development.Credit...Tara Walton for The New York Times
Mr.
Dockstader and Mr. Vanderklis drove to see the protest on
the first day.
“These
things start out as tiny things and you just never know
what’s going to happen,” Mr. Dockstader said.
After
a police raid on Aug. 5 that resulted in arrests, more
protesters arrived, leading to blockades on more roads. In
all, Mr. Dockstader made 15 trips to the site.
By
late August, Mr. Dockstader decided to pitch his tent.
“I
was interested in establishing a relationship with people
that were in charge as opposed to just running around
snapping photos, having cool things to post and getting
clicks,” he said. “I was there for the sole purpose of
documenting what was happening and doing a deeper dive.”
Being
present at the scene was contrary to the injunction, but
before the charges were brought earlier this month, Mr.
Dockstader’s lawyer told the police he was there as a
journalist, not a protester.
In an email, Constable Rod
Leclair, a police spokesman, declined to offer any specifics
about Mr. Dockstader’s case but said “engaging in activities
outside of their reporting purpose, could subject media
personnel to charges in relation to violation of a court
order and other applicable offenses.”
The
police say Mr. Dockstader was charged with criminal mischief
because of events on Aug. 29, the last day he was at the
blockade.
“There
was a concert and a lacrosse game,” said Mr. Dockstader of
that day. “I posted a video to my social media feed that was
sort of a recap of the week. And I honestly thought I was
free and clear.”
He
is now barred him from returning to the blockade and from
interviewing people connected with it. His lawyer is trying
to get those terms revised.
Ms.
Myers, the other journalist arrested after reporting from
the site, said she acted only as an observer, and crossed
onto the land covered by the injunction after reporters and
camera crews from large media outlets did so.
“Sometimes
when you tell these stories it makes people uncomfortable,”
she said. “What do you do with people who make you
comfortable? You charge them and silence them.”
Mr.
Dockstader is set to appear in court in November.
“For me,” Mr. Dockstader
said, “I set the hard line of having journalists protected
so that it’s not police using their discretion to decide
what is and isn’t journalism. But they clearly seem to want
to foray into that territory. They just don’t care.”
From: H-Net Staff via H-REVIEW <h-review@...> Date: September 22, 2020 at 11:29:23 AM EDT To: h-review@... Cc: H-Net Staff <revhelp@...> Subject:H-Net Review [H-LatAm]: Borucki on Freeman, 'A Silver River in a Silver World: Dutch Trade in the Rio de la Plata, 1648-1678' Reply-To: h-review@...
David Freeman. A Silver River in a Silver World: Dutch Trade in the Rio de la Plata, 1648-1678. Cambridge Latin American Studies Series. Cambridge Cambridge University Press, 2020. xiv + 226 pp. $99.99 (cloth), ISBN 978-1-108-41749-5.
Reviewed by Alex Borucki (University of California, Irvine) Published on H-LatAm (September, 2020) Commissioned by Casey M. Lurtz
The more we read about the Dutch, the more we realize that our understanding of the Atlantic World will continue to have significant gaps until we engage more deeply with their actions across the Atlantic-Pacific axis of silver, slaves, and trade emerging in the sixteenth century. Historians of Spanish America rarely read Dutch primary sources, and historians of the Dutch Atlantic rarely read Spanish records (though most commonly both of these groups read English). David Freeman is one of the few historians who read these three languages as well as Portuguese, all essential for examining colonial Río de la Plata's Atlantic trade. In addition, Freeman is one of the very few historians to have conducted archival research in both the Netherlands and Buenos Aires, further supplemented in this book with archival sources from France, Spain, and the United Kingdom. Indeed, Freeman is the first to examine Spanish-language notary registers inserted within Dutch-language files in the Dutch notarial archives (only Zakarías Moutoukias has worked on the Dutch records of the Río de la Plata). Freeman affirms the centrality of archives in the historian's toolkit as that which sets this profession apart from other scholars in the humanities and social sciences. It takes a vocation and great patience to dig through these repositories and master the knowledge to connect historical characters and processes in seventeenth-century notarial records in Spanish and Dutch. Freeman's work makes clear that historians who fail to do this work may end up repeating commonplace impressions and interpretations. This excellent book instead surprises the reader on many fronts regarding Dutch-Spanish trading partnerships in Buenos Aires, and it should be translated into Spanish for further circulation in Latin America.
Freeman puts forward an important argument about how we envision "contraband" as a form of local governance in the Spanish Americas. As he puts it: "Dutch trade flowed through Buenos Aires both inward and outward not because the governors were greedy and corrupt (which ultimately increased risk and diminished opportunities), but because they functioned within a system of governance that allowed them to interpret royal will to best serve local and regional communities" (p. 7). Indeed, seventeenth-century Spanish colonial authorities rarely used the word _contrabando_ to refer to what we would call contraband today. Instead, Freeman uses the terms "registered" and "unregistered" to refer to the legal standing of the commodities (including enslaved people) being exchanged in Buenos Aires and on board of Dutch ships, in order to avoid modern conceptions of contraband that could misinform our understanding of these developments.
Dutch trade in the Río de la Plata depended on establishing reliable connections with local governors and merchants and on a legal architecture centered on notarized agreements between Spanish and Dutch associates. The centrality of local authorities and partnerships between Dutch traders living outside and inside Buenos Aires and Spanish merchants and officials of Buenos Aires is illustrated by the close relationship between the governor of Buenos Aires, Pedro de Baygorri, and Dutch merchant Albert Jansen. Local government and merchant communities mattered. In this Spanish-Dutch partnership, the Buenos Aires-based Spanish merchants took on the less risky role_, _while the Dutch took most of the risk. Spaniards (some of mixed European and African ancestry) conducted commerce of Dutch merchandise from Buenos Aires to Lima and Potosí, the source of the silver lubricating this trade, and probably enjoyed comparatively greater profits from this commerce than transatlantic shippers, such as the Dutch, who were more exposed to losses and uncertainty. A quantitative analysis of merchant accounts, if these survive, could shed light on this issue. Most of these transactions were notarized rather than being done secretly and informally in the middle of the night . A structure of ink and paper, of legal jurisdiction and rights on property, knit together Amsterdam and Buenos Aires: "the notarial cultures in Amsterdam and Buenos Aires bound these men even when their face-to-face contacts were rare" (p. 193). These contracts functioned to set in writing the legalization of this unregistered merchandise and enslaved Africans, which allowed a safe passage from Buenos Aires to the inland (and thus provided safeguard against Spanish officers in such places as Córdoba, Tucumán, and Mendoza, who could confiscate merchandise and slaves). This world of ink and paper, combined with family links and friendships, reduced the risk for the Dutch and their local Spanish counterparts conducting cross-cultural trade in the Río de la Plata and bridged different legal communities and cultures.
Events in Buenos Aires and the Atlantic World brought this trade to an end about 1680. Freeman finds that specific prohibitions against Dutch trade in Buenos Aires issued by Madrid, a greater number of ships (_navíos de registro _and _navíos de aviso_) sent from Spain to more frequently connect the Río de la Plata with the metropolis, and the renewal of the Portuguese trade in the Río de la Plata after 1668 and prior to the Portuguese foundation of Colonia del Sacramento in the shores opposite to Buenos Aires in 1680, all contributed to this decline. The creation of the _audiencia_ (high court) of Buenos Aires in 1663 with a new governor who intended to curtail unregistered ships arriving in the context of the Spanish loss of Jamaica (1655, with Spanish recognition in 1670) also influenced the decline of Dutch trade in Buenos Aires. While the Third Anglo-Dutch War (1672-74) that crippled Dutch shipping also had a role, Freeman rightfully recognizes that Curaçao became the main Dutch center of transshipping in the Americas in the 1660s, which led the Dutch shipping presence in Buenos Aires to disappear by 1680.
Freeman addresses the Dutch presence in the Caribbean at the beginning and at the end of his book. Yet we may wonder about the commonalities and differences of Dutch trade in the Río de la Plata in 1648-78, compared to Dutch involvement in New Granada and Venezuela in those years. Detailed scrutiny of the Dutch in the Caribbean could have helped qualify Freeman's assessment of Dutch commerce in Buenos Aires. Freeman asserts that between 1654 and the 1660s "much of the [Dutch] direct trade with Spanish America went through Buenos Aires" (p. 87). Evidence from the traffic of captives shows that, in the decade of 1650, more captives arrived in Dutch ships from Africa to the Spanish Caribbean and circum-Caribbean than to the Río de la Plata (www.slavevoyages.org), before the decline of Dutch trade in Buenos Aires in the 1660s. And this is without counting the slave trade from Curaçao to the Spanish colonies. Evidence from the Transatlantic Slave Trade Database suggests the need for further clarification and qualification when comparing the Dutch commerce of goods in the Spanish circum-Caribbean vis-à-vis Buenos Aires. Notwithstanding, this is the best examination of the Dutch trade in colonial Río de la Plata to date, and an example of micro-analysis based of the itinerant life of Jansen in the Netherlands, Spain, and the Río de la Plata, among other places.
Citation: Alex Borucki. Review of Freeman, David, _A Silver River in a Silver World: Dutch Trade in the Rio de la Plata, 1648-1678_. H-LatAm, H-Net Reviews. September, 2020. URL: https://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=55407
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.
Here's the second criticism I'll post on the Jacobin interview around COVID-19. It's from Michael Friedman, a professor of biology at the American University of Antigua School of Medicine. He posted it on the Spirit of 1848 listserv. [Friedman is a Marxmail alumni.]
_______________________
Hi folks,
I would imagine that my NWAEG and SftP comrade Katherine Yih is on this list and I would welcome her feedback. I am greatly disappointed with this interview with her and professor of medicine Martin Kulldorff. Their "radical strategy" boils down to building up herd immunity, not much different from what elements of the Trump or Johnson administrations favor, and which, despite Kulldorff's view, failed in Sweden.
In essence, during the course of their interview, both Yih and Kulldorff ignore the most problematic element of Covid-19 epidemiology, the high rate of transmission of the virus. In the process, they rely on the speculative (at this point) scenario of developing herd immunity.
Yih starts off by disavowing efforts to prevent transmission, particularly via lockdowns. In effect, then, she accepts the status quo handed to us by the Trump administration, which allowed rampant transmission to the point where it would now, as Yih rightly notes, be quite difficult (although not impossible) to contain. She also dismisses the development and efficacy of vaccines, at least within a reasonable time period and with sufficient accessibility. She is probably partially correct, here. Instead, she favors strategic approaches to building up herd immunity.
She advocates, "instead of a medically oriented approach that focuses on the individual patient and seeks (unrealistically) to prevent new infections across the board, we need a public health–oriented approach that focuses on the population and seeks to use patterns, or epidemiologic features, of the disease to minimize the number of cases of severe disease and death over the long run, as herd immunity builds up."
But, after pointing out that 90% of mortality occurs in older people, and the reality that mortality is differential among social groups for structural reasons, this rings hollow. The objection to a herd immunity approach is twofold. First, it's attainment would entail an unacceptable number of deaths. Given the nature of our capitalist society, with the inequity in co-morbidities and risks and accessibility of health care, and given the biology of ageing, and even the state of medical technology, Yih's words about "minimizing the number of cases of severe disease and death over the long run," are meaningless.
Second of all, herd immunity depends on the biology of the virus and the complexities of our immune systems. Earlier, in her dismissal of anticipating vaccines, Yih asserts, "neither the effectiveness nor the duration of immunity from any of these vaccines is known as yet." But, the same is true of herd immunity. We simply don't know the duration, exact mechanisms or efficacy of the human response to this coronavirus. There have been a growing number of apparent reinfections. We don't know how long immunity lasts. If it is of short duration, that would seem to preclude herd immunity or mean that an impossibly high proportion of the overall population must be infected at any one time for it to occur. We don't know why, in some cases, antibodies are not produced. We don't know why some of those exposed don't contract the virus. Most basically, we don't know what proportion of the population must be infected to attain herd immunity. In other words, the same caveats apply to herd immunity as to vaccines, but with much more statistical uncertainty, since these are not controlled experiments.
Then Kulldorf states, "Children and young adults have minimal risk, and there is no scientific or public health rationale to close day care centers, schools, or colleges. In-person education is critically important for both the intellectual and social development for all kids, but school closures are especially harmful for working-class children whose parents cannot afford tutors, pod schools, or private schools." Bewilderingly, his first argument abstracts from the very population health arguments he and Katherine seek to rely on. The rationale for closing "day care centers, schools and colleges" is not simply the risk to young people, who may have "minimal risk" for severe symptoms (which may turn out to not be so minimal, given what researchers and physicians are finding about chronic symptoms even among apparently asymptomatic cases), but not for infection. In fact, transmission rates among young people are the highest of any age-based demographic. The major risk, here, is to teachers, school staff and all the adults in those children's lives. Kulldorff's second argument simply rewarms the obvious and constant barrage of Hobbesian choices imposed on all working class people in our society, dilemnas which will only be resolved through socialist revolution. And the reforms that could mitigate those choices cut both ways. But, it is just as easy or easier to demand paid time off for parents to supervise home-bound, distance-learning children, as it would be to take some unspecified measures to prevent transmission among children in classrooms and from them to adults. Kulldorff's argument that "in-person" is better for intellectual development is specious if he considers himself a public health professional.
Kulldorff rightly rejects a theoretical dichotamy between vaccines and natural herd immunity, but he again reconciles these by asserting "Whatever strategy we use for COVID-19, we will eventually reach herd immunity, either with a vaccine, through natural infections, or a combination of the two. So, the question is not whether we get to herd immunity or not." But, yes, that is indeed the question. Or one of them. As he then states, "We do not know what percent immunity to the coronavirus is needed to achieve herd immunity, but we do know that if there are many older people in the group that are infected, there will be many deaths. On the other hand, if mostly young people are infected, there will be very few deaths." And, here, again, he ignores the issue of transmission. Kids are not boxed off from adults and seniors.
Kulldorff applauds Sweden's strategy of looking to natural herd immunity to control the disease,"except for the failure to protect nursing home residents in Stockholm, the country has done well without a lockdown. For example, day care centers and schools were never closed for children aged one to fifteen, with zero COVID-19 deaths as a result and only a few hospitalizations. Moreover, teachers faced the same risk as the average among other professions. COVID-19 mortality is now close to zero in Sweden, and the United States has now passed Sweden in terms of deaths per million inhabitants, despite Sweden having an older, more high-risk population." Done well? If I am not mistaken, Sweden contributed among the greatest number of deaths in Europe. And his assertion begs the question, has Sweden achieved that herd immunity? Is it even close? And what will the final cost be IF it does? We may soon find out if it is there, with numbers of cases rapidly climbing in Europe. Further, Sweden has a sharp advantage over the United States. It's postwar Social Democratic regime succeeded in greatly leveling the social playing field. Income inequalty is vastly less and Swedes have access to a range of health and social services to which U.S. resdents are not privvy. Kullforff offers a misleading argument here: "To date, Swedish COVID-19 mortality has been higher than in some and lower than in other lockdown countries. While it is popular to compare COVID-19 mortality rates between countries, it’s not a great metric." The point is not to compare numbers, but to ask if any population is willing to accept tens of thousands of deaths, when these can be prevented. What is worth comparing are the strategies used to prevent deaths. And, in this, New Zealand and a number of other countries stand above the rest.
Kulldorff asserts that "a universal lockdown can successfully postpone cases into the future, as it has done in some countries, but in doing so it also postpones the buildup of immunity." The latter, of course, is the whole point: to out-wait the virus so either its R0 drops below 1, or until there is a vaccine. Nevertheless, his age-stratifed herd immunity approach essentially does the same, but for vulnerable sectors. The elderly and vulnerable protected under their hazy scenarios will, of course, not have the opportunity to build up herd immunity. They will continue to be vulnerable, unless they represent an insignificant proportion of the population, such that the overall population's herd immunity eventually protects them. Yet, for the epidemiological and immunological reasons given above, how likely is this latter scenario? Contrary to Kulldorff, the nursing home dead in Sweden were not "aberrations." Moreover, you cannot simultaneously protect the elderly and vulnerable if you allow free transmission of coronavirus in the general population while you are waiting for the Holy Grail.
Yih throws in an economic argument that muddies the water, somewhat: "millions of working-class people have lost their jobs and find it impossible to find new ones in the current shuttered economy." Well, yes. But we only have to go back 12 years to see that this is the nature of the capitalist economy. In fact, there were many signs of a looming major recession before the pandemic hit. Did the pandemic worsen the crisis? You bet. But, only a liberal with a classical productivist fetish would seek to resolve this by demanding that "younger" people be put back to work amid a pandemic. The correct answer is a broad program, like the pandemic-modified Green New Deal.
According to Yih, "Liberal elites, including the Democratic Party establishment, have actively ceded this terrain, instead emphasizing the importance of lowering infection rates (across the board) until a vaccine becomes generally available. I think the liberal elites’ adoption of this approach stems from the easy appeal of keeping “everyone” safe together with a class position for which the lockdown strategy is in fact safer as well as quite easy to ride out. Liberal elites simply can’t see or can’t feel how this strategy continues to fail the working class and also small business owners."
In fact, in a capitalist society, *both* (reopen the economy or lock it down) are ruling class options, because capital will throw workers under the bus in either scenario. And workers will be protected under neither. Given that, the BEST strategy is still a "curve-levelling" one, not to wait for the herd immunity Holy Grail, but to fight for adequate measures of prevention and protection, universal healthcare, paid leaves of absence and sick leave, the right to decent housing, a frontal attack on racism (and ageism) in all spheres, but now more than never in healthcare, housing, criminal justice and employment. In some cases, yes, we will need full or targeted lockdowns, as in China. Where economic activities must continue, workers must be assured PPE and stringent regard for numbers, ventilation and spacing. And, yes, schools and other indoor spaces of assembly must be shuttered as needed, with online education and necessary time off for parents provided. On a personal note, I'm 65 and will refuse to walk into a classroom with college students who just spent the weekend partying. Regardless of Kulldorff's (baseless) assertions.
Several of you asked what my take was on the latest Jacobin interview on COVID-19. I haven't read it thoroughly. But here's the first of two critiques I'll share. Tim Lacy is Director of the Medical Student Learning Environment at the University of Illinois College of Medicine.
I will say that a couple weeks ago I noted the development of a leftist mirror stage. Whatever the switch in political chirality, the interviewees here (and others) may be miming Trumpist command (and the Democrats' staged infirmity) as if the natural order of things.
The gesticulation matches a political impotence with biomedical magical thinking. Because we are unable to get the bourgeoisie to pay for a community health response that matches COVID's scale, including, as in other countries, paying everyone to huddle down and ride out the outbreak, the *virus* must not be as dangerous as it seems.
_______________________________
Glad to see Jacobin engaging this topic. Here is my 13-Point Response and Criticism. Please read to the bottom, when I get to the complications faced by the CTU:
1. Kulldorff, early on in the interview, emphasizes age-specific responses to COVID-19 and references a piece by him from April 2020. What we know now, and didn't know then, were the after-effects on young people who catch the virus, and the effects on so-called long-haulers. These effects argue for the existing, cautious stay-at-home orders for all, including young students, college-aged people, and those in their twenties and thirties. We are still learning the parameters of this disease. It may be true that those under 50 and without underlying conditions are unlikely to die from COVID-19, but widespread, long-term health effects from those "recovered" may be just as damaging to the populace and the economy. Katherine Yih refers to these long-term effects in her responses. Kulldorff is wrong to emphasize that children and young adults have "minimal risks." He should say unknown but fewer risks (i.e., non-mortal) than those over 60 who contract this.
2. The answer to Yih's point about being locked down is testing and contact tracing, not focusing on the potential unreliability of vaccines. We now possess fast-turnaround tests (the IL and Yale saliva tests), which enable quick quarantines for individuals. Those tests should be made widespread. That is a medically-oriented approach that is historically tested and proven (i.e., contact tracing and isolation).
3. The answer to the effects on the working-class is a generous, pandemic-focused Universal Basic Income. That enables people to stay home, and minimizes the massive inequalities that have continued unabated through the pandemic. That extra income would enable flexibilities to see young children through the pandemic with one or more parents available.
4. Kulldorff's advocacy for herd immunity is absolutely dangerous. It should not be a medical focus, but rather a "happy" accident that occurs when viable, equitable medical interventions fail or run out. What has happened in Sweden should be a cautionary tale for all who think the herd immunity strategy is viable in countries with significant populations over the age of 60. Yes, the article addresses Sweden, but not in as detailed a fashion as it deserves. Lots of elderly people died in Sweden. Kulldorff is right, however, when Kulldorff says the question is how to get there with minimal casualties. The answers are testing, contact tracing, universal health insurance, and pandemic-related UBI until a viable vaccine is ready for all.
5. This article, strangely for Jacobin, actually concedes too much to our current landscape and conditions---meaning of authoritarian, unchecked, and minimally-regulated capitalism in the United States versus the science of medicine and public health. I can't believe UBI and universal healthcare are not emphasized herein!
6. Neither Yih nor Kulldorff address the very real and ethical question of how many people they are willing to sacrifice, or to let be subject to long-term complications, to reach herd immunity. 1? 100? 1000? 10000? 100000? How many aged people were sacrificed in Sweden?
7. Regarding Sweden generally, you must look at those mortality and casualty numbers per capita, not absolutely. You also have to look at Sweden's healthcare infrastructure, general mental health incoming to the pandemic, and culture of mutual support. One must extrapolate very cautiously from Sweden. Kulldorff eventually gets to this point when the conversation turns to Denmark, Finland, and Norway.
8. In relation to secondary and tertiary effects in terms of non-COVID-19 illnesses (cancer, heart disease, immunizations, dental care, etc.), the answer again is universal healthcare and UBI. Young people need and benefit from quick, early treatment---enabled by a robust testing and contact tracing regime. A solid universal healthcare system would enable, perhaps, the prevention of young from a severity of infection that would cause the emerging long-term health risks.
9. The disproportionate burden of COVID-19 has fallen on people of color and the aged. The article is right to hammer this home. The Professional Managerial Class has focused on protecting its assets (homes, families, retirement accounts) rather than enabling universal services that would enable a softer lockdown. The conservatism of the PMC has hurt our disadvantaged communities. The PMC is the entity that doesn't want extended health, welfare, and unemployment benefits. The selfishness of healthy aged white people has helped enable the disproportionate burden.
10. The politicization of this crisis by our president has created and fostered a COVID-19 culture war. This has dissolved any viable middle way that would've given thought to at least temporary UBI and universal healthcare measures, and undermined the testing and tracing regime. It's not the Left-Right divide so much as a divide manufactured by our autocratically-inclined president.
11. I agree that an age-targeted strategy can be viable, but only when the young are well-protected as well from any kind of potential widespread infection. We don't want to create a high-maintenance cohort of recovered youth with potentially expensive, not-fully-known long-term side-effects. Some medical "conservatism" on behalf of youth--even when they don't want to be protected---is warranted.
12. Yih suggests that "progressives need to reject the unquestioning lockdown approach." I would agree if I saw progressives accepting the lockdown unquestioningly. I see by contrast, for instance, the centrist yet mildly progressive IL Governor Pritzker talking about phases, regions, and best-available science. This has enabled some (imperfect) flexibility around the state. It is true that some businesses could've been given more flexibility earlier, but the state also seems to want to ramp up the rapid testing possibilities and contact tracing.
13. The two medical professionals interviewed here seem to underestimate the complications of youthful asymptomatic spreaders, and the difficulties of age separation in relation to social interactions. Schools, for instance, are often led by older people who are susceptible to more intense consequences from child super spreaders. Those teachers then return to homes with their kids and maybe a susceptible relative. There is a reason why Chicago's CTU, a champion of working-class parents and social responsibility, has advocated for remote learning. It's trying to protect its middle-class teachers as well as its working class students and their parents. What of multi-generational homes, where aged family members receive better care from family than they would at any elder-care facility? The CTU operates in a diverse milieu, balancing numerous interests for the good of all. It has been an advocate for stay-at-home education and supported conservative, medically-informed stay-at-home orders. I also feel certain that the CTU would champion UBI and universal healthcare for all, to ease the pandemic-related burdens of all.
Two tenured professors
at different universities are in hot water after
participating in the Scholar Strike, a national action
meant to call awareness to police brutality against Black
people.
At the University of
Mississippi, the state auditor, Shad White, told the
university to pursue terminating James M. Thomas after the
associate professor of sociology engaged, according to
White, in an illegal work stoppage. White’s targeting of
Thomas — first reported by theClarion Ledger —has beencriticizedby
other scholars as intimidation and an attempt to score
political points in a red state. (White did not respond to
a request for comment but said on Twitter that people want
him to “give this professor a pass” because they agree
with the professor’s politics. “No,” he concluded.)
And at Texas A&M
University, the dean reported Wendy Leo Moore, an
associate professor of sociology, to the provost after
Moore indicated she would participate in a work stoppage.
For several days, Moore toldThe Chronicle,she thought
she was going to lose her job.
Both Moore and Thomas say
their decisions were well within their rights under
academic freedom, and believe they shouldn’t face
professional consequences for what were pedagogical
decisions. And they fear the moves will intimidate their
colleagues, including those who don’t have the security of
tenure.
Teach-Ins
About Racial Justice
Two scholars, Kevin Gannon
and Anthea Butler, came up with theScholar
Strikein the wake of this
summer’s protests against racism and police brutality.
Universities are not immune to these problems, Gannon, a
professor of history at Grand View University, who writes
regularly forThe Chronicle,
and Butler, an associate professor of religious studies
and Africana studies at the University of Pennsylvania,
wrote in anessay
explaining the movement. So for two days, on
September 8 and 9, professors, students, and staff members
would “step away from their regular duties and classes to
engage in teach-ins about racial injustice in America,
policing, and racism in America,” they wrote.
Some instructors, including
those sympathetic to protests and labor movements,
criticized the action. It’s the wrong tactic, commented
one professor on theAmericanAssociation
ofUniversityProfessors’s
blog, because it negatively affects students
who were already anxious about this semester.
Some scholarly
organizations, including the American Sociological
Association, put outstatementsinsupport.
The American Political Science Associationsaid it“recognizes
and respects the academic freedom of political scientists
who participate.”
ASA’s statement is partly
what swayed Moore. During the pandemic, Moore said she’s
tried to be more available than ever to her students, so
she thought hard about what it would mean to be
inaccessible for two days. But ultimately, she felt a
responsibility — as a white, tenured professor — to engage
in a work stoppage, not a teach-in, because it was in her
power to do so.
On the morning of September
7, Moore explained her reasoning to her students. For two
weeks after George Floyd’s death, she and her children had
worked at pop-up food banks and participated in protests
in St. Paul and Minneapolis, she wrote in an email. She
saw the Scholar Strike as an extension of those
social-justice activities. She included links to learn
more about the strike and about police violence and racial
inequality.
She canceled her Tuesday
office hours and told students who normally had a Zoom
class that day that they could drop in on Thursday’s class
if they wanted to.
Moore also offered to stay
on Thursday’s Zoom meeting an extra hour to answer any
questions about class materials, the strike, or issues of
racism and police brutality. She’d hold office hours later
that day and would be available for meetings that Friday
and over the weekend, she told them.
ADVERTISEMENT
Later that morning, Moore
got a Facebook message from her interim department head,
Pat Rubio Goldsmith, asking her to give him a call.
According to Moore, he told her that the upper
administration wanted her to walk back the work stoppage
by sending another email to her students, saying she’d do
a different sort of action, like a teach-in. He told her,
“I don’t want to lose you.” The impression she got, Moore
said, was that she could be fired.
Reached for comment,
Goldsmith confirmed he spoke with Moore about her initial
email but declined to comment further.
That afternoon, Moore’s
dean, Pamela R. Matthews, circulated a memo about the
Scholar Strike written by the university system’s chief
legal officer.
In the memo, Ray Bonilla
said that he’d been advised there was a national effort to
organize a strike or temporary work stoppage among faculty
members. “I do not have information on the details of this
effort,” he wrote. “Even so, it is important for you to
know that any A&M System employees participating in
such a strike or walkout will be violating Texas law.”
Citing a state law, Bonilla
said that any employee who violates the statute “forfeits
all civil-service rights, re-employment rights, and any
other rights, benefits, and privileges the employee enjoys
as a result of public employment.” So the consequences are
“significant,” Bonilla wrote.
Matthews sent Bonilla’s
memo to department heads. “If you anticipate that it is
necessary or even simply helpful,” the dean wrote, “feel
free to communicate with faculty and staff so that they
are aware of the very serious potential consequences.”
Moore’s department chair disseminated the memo to all
sociology faculty members, graduate students, and staff
members.
By that point, Moore says
she was hysterical over the possibility of being fired.
She had a conversation with her adult children about what
to do, and they supported her sticking to her ideals.
She’d also gotten a couple of positive emails from her
students, who said they were grateful for her action.
And Moore, who is also an
attorney, read over Bonilla’s memo, and she disagreed with
his interpretation of Texas law. That evening, she emailed
Goldsmith and Matthews, telling them why.
First, her decision, which
was in “solidarity with national social-movement
activities,” was not part of an organized work stoppage
against the university or the state of Texas itself, she
wrote. Secondly, the subsection of the law that Bonilla
cites is part of a larger body of legislation that
concerns work strikes “in conjunction with organized labor
for the purpose of influencing labor negotiations,” Moore
wrote. Whereas the Scholar Strike, while it includes work
stoppages, is not related to labor negotiations.
“As I hope you can see, my
decision to express my support of Black Lives Matter, the
#ScholarStrike, and racial justice through participation
in a work stoppage was taken with thought and care,” Moore
wrote. “I informed students that I was balancing
participation in this important social movement with their
needs in this already difficult time.”
Matthews, the dean, wrote
back, telling Moore she appreciated and respected Moore’s
position, but was obligated to notify the provost and the
general counsel’s office. The next morning, she emailed
the provost to say that Moore was participating and had
been “informed of the potentially serious consequences of
her decision.”
Moore says she asked her
department head to forward the email she’d written
explaining her rationale and her legal interpretation to
the provost. Then, she waited.
Meanwhile, word spread
about Moore’s decision among students and their parents.
“I’m not paying for them to take a day off,” wrote one
parent on a Facebook thread about Moore’s email. “The best
part of waking up isn’t Folgers in my cup — it’s getting
the ability to get rid of horrible professors who broke
the law and lost all of their employee rights, including
tenure,” commented another user.
ADVERTISEMENT
On Monday, September 14,
Moore says she met with the university’s chief risk,
ethics, and compliance officer. According to Moore, the
questions he asked did not seem geared toward a decision
of termination. She said he told her he’d be writing up a
report and sharing it with the dean of faculties.
At this point, Moore says
she’s not sure what’s going to happen. (The university
communications office did not respond to a request for
comment, nor did Matthews, Bonilla, or Kevin McGinnis, the
chief compliance officer.)
Moore said she’s less
afraid of losing her job than she was a week ago. She
thinks she’s on solid legal ground. But the ordeal has
cost her, she said. She lost a week of work. She had to
turn off her camera during a faculty meeting to keep her
colleagues from seeing her cry.
The university’s decisions
“infringed upon my freedom of expression and freedom of
participation in this national movement in support of
Black lives,” Moore said. She worries about those in less
secure positions than her, who were already scared to
stand up for what they believed in.
‘Within
the Bounds of My Job Roles’
Thomas, too, sees his case
as something that could have a lasting, chilling effect on
others at the university. “I was entirely within the
bounds of my job roles and responsibilities,” he said in a
statement sent toThe Chronicle. “That my university
hasn’t affirmed that yet should worry every single one of
my colleagues.”
Thomas declined to comment
further but provided a memo he wrote about the incident
that explained his reasoning for participating in the
Scholar Strike.
He’s a sociologist who
studies, among other things, race and racism in the United
States. The national action was a chance, he wrote, to
connect the content of his courses with what was going on
in the real world.
Before the strike began,
Thomas talked about the action on Twitter, saying that “if
you have tenure, your #ScholarStrike activity needs to be
a work stoppage. Tell your students you’re not working.”
He emailed his students to
say that for the next two days, he wouldn’t be responding
to emails or holding Zoom meetings, including office
hours, or providing course-related instruction. He
encouraged them to learn more about the history of police
violence in the U.S. and sent a link to resources. He
shared some of those resources on Twitter.
On Monday, September 14,
White, the state auditor, cited the email Thomas sent to
his students and posts he’d made on social media in his
letter to Glenn Boyce, the chancellor of the University of
Mississippi. Strikes, or any concerted work stoppage, are
illegal in Mississippi, White wrote. And the penalties are
clear. If an employee has engaged in a strike, a court
shall order “the termination of his or her employment.”
White requested that the
university withhold Thomas’s pay and also that the
university “proceed to court to hear the matter of Prof.
Thomas’s termination.”
ADVERTISEMENT
When news broke about
White’s letter, some observers criticized the Republican’s
decision as a political maneuver to target Thomas, who has
drawn ire from state Republicans before. In 2018, he faced
backlash for encouraging people on Twitter to harass
senators in public. He later clarified his comment wasn’t
meant to be taken literally,theClarionLedgerreported.
A colleague of Thomas’swrote
an open letter, saying that White’s action was
an attempt to score “some cheap political points” and use
“intimidation tactics in an attempt to silence faculty.”
For his part, Thomas
strongly disputes White’s claim that he engaged in a work
stoppage. “The irony of Mr. White’s accusations against me
is that to prepare my course materials and engage my
students in the pedagogy related to #ScholarStrike
required extra effort, and extra work time, on my part,”
he wrote in his memo. “Time neither he nor the armed
agents he sent to my home considered.” (White confirmed to
theClarion Ledgerthat
his office sent two agents to Thomas’ home before he sent
the letter to Boyce. White said that Thomas “wasn’t
interested” in talking to them.)
On the days of the Scholar
Strike, Thomas says he shifted his focus away from his
administrative work onto the “pedagogical and creative
activities” related to the Scholar Strike. He worked on a
manuscript and submitted it for consideration in an edited
volume, and he answered several emails.
“My choice to provide this
opportunity for my students is fundamentally grounded in
my academic freedom,” Thomas wrote, “the bedrock of
everything we do at this university and others like it.”
White’s characterization of his activities demonstrates
“his clear misunderstanding of the role and
responsibilities of faculty members in institutions of
higher education.”
It’s unclear where Thomas’s
case now stands. The scholar wants a strong rebuke of
White’s claims from the university administration —
something he hasn’t gotten yet.
A spokesman for the
university declined to comment on what he called a
personnel matter.
In my defense of "The Planet of the Humans" (https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/05/08/beyond-the-uproar-over-planet-of-humans/), I pointed out that it's critics were wrong to claim that biomass energy was a thing of the past. It may have wound down in the USA but as this article points out, it is going like gangbusters in Europe with the fuel coming from American forests.
fair enough. for me, the first line gives me a sense of the article, is it just a link, is it a repost of something else, is somebody making a point. i love it.
in any case, Lou feels many people have grown used to and appreciate the Latest 100, so it aint goin away.
Just a few comments on this. I do love the new composition page with the ability to format text and so on. This is literally taking the list from the 1990s to the 2020s. So thanks for that. But the listing of messages IMO sucks...the use of the first line(s) of the message is a complete waste of screen space. That is why the http://marxmail.org/maillist.html is so valuable. I can quickly review the last set of messages by title for the entire day or two. The new listing is extremely annoying and I can only view about a subject titles. So the way it is now is perfect. I can use both quite easily.
-----Original Message-----
From: Les Schaffer <les.schaffer@...>
To: marxmail@groups.io
Sent: Mon, Sep 21, 2020 2:45 pm
Subject: [Special] [marxmail] in re/ "Latest 100 Messages"
a number of people are reading marxmail at the "Latest 100 messages from Marxism list" website. due to changes i made (to the code that generates the Latest 100) in the last couple days, not everyone's email to marxmail has been reflected on the Latest 100 site. i've just fine-tuned those changes so this should no longer happen.
if for some reason you notice an email you sent to marxmail did not make it to the Latest 100, please let me know and i will continue fine-tuning.
for those of you that have grown accustomed to reading the Latest 100, know that you can get nearly the same result by browsing to https://groups.io/g/marxmail/topics
from the excellent groups.io manuals i've learned how quoted text can be handled in the groups.io web interface. see the following Tips here - Quoting part of a message (Reply only)
- Quote Whole Post (Reply only) - Trim Quote Whole Post (Reply only)
What are you using for reading and replying? an email program like Outlook or Thunderbird, or Google's web interface, or the groups.io web interface?
on google web interface or Thunderbird it is possible to delete the quoted text. in the former case you have to click the three dots that say (when your mouse is hovered over) "Show trimmed content". then you can clip as needed. Thunderbird (and Outlook???) display the quoted text by default.
the groups.io web interface does not appear to allow trimming of quoted text. i can check on the moderator's forum to see if there are workarounds/fixes for this.
I have wanted to reply to some messages but am stymied when it comes to clipping all extraneous text. I am unable to delete text. Is there another way?
I have wanted to reply to some messages but am stymied when it comes to clipping all extraneous text. I am unable to delete text. Is there another way?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:18 PM Les Schaffer <les.schaffer@...> wrote:
We were notified this afternoon that there were issues delivering groups.io email today. the system should start clearing "now" (meaning
you probably wont get this message until earlier email clears).
groups.io has been a pleasure to work with so far. here is there second
email on the issue, below.
Les
----------------
Hi All,
As you've hopefully noticed, email has started to flow again. We have
quite a backlog to work through, however, so it will take some time
before we're caught up. I believe I've stabilized things. No email was
lost, and the problem didn't affect any other part of the service.
I will post at least one more time in this topic when we're fully caught
up with the backlog. And, probably tomorrow, I will post a #postmortem
detailing what happened and what changes I'll be making.