How to stop jaws from interfering with an application's keyboard commands


Adrian Spratt
 

In the past, gamers have recommended using the layered insert-space, s command to silence speech when another application has speech output. If nothing else, this toggle is less dramatic than turning off JAWS altogether.

 

--

My novel Caroline is now available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook versions and, for qualified readers in the US, at the National Library Service/BARD. Go to: https://adrianspratt.com/book/

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 9:27 AM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfeering with an application's keyboard commands

 

There is no way to do this other than unloading Jaws completely.

I suppose you could go through the dozens if not hundreds of keyboard definitions and delete all of them, but then the screen reader would be useless, so just unload it during the game.

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA.

“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.” - Søren Kierkegaard

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

🦅

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:19 AM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfeering with an application's keyboard commands

 

Marten, thanks for that hotkey! It's super useful, however I'm afraid I did not phrase my question correctly. Let's try again.

 

What I was referring to, was a way for JAWS to let all keyboard keys through to an application. So in other words, is there a way to stop jaws from completely hijacking the keyboard when an application, such as a game, is loaded, without putting it to sleep or unloading the screen reader? Hope that clears things up, and thanks again for all your help!

 

On 9/25/2022 7:21 AM, Marten Post Uiterweer wrote:

Yohandy,

The jawskey+shift+z key is only working in the jaws2013 vbeta and in the 2013 version that will come out in october.

Regards, marten


On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 13:13:21 +0200 "Marten Post Uiterweer" <martenpu@...> wrote:

Yohandy,

That's the way Jaws is created. What application do you have difficulties with?
Is it a web-application, than you have the jawskey+shift+z. After this key, the quick navigation keys will no longer go to Jaws, but to the application.

Else you can disable keys for an application in keyboardmanager.

Regards, Marten

On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 18:35:17 -0400 "Yohandy" <yohandy85@...> wrote:

Hi all,

So I'm not sure how this hasn't been addressed by FS yet. You use a screen reader like NVDA< and you can pretty much do whatever you want with the keyboard, and the screen reader won't interfeer and will let the keys through to the 3application. If you use jaws, well there's the Jaws key 3 to let a key through, but that's all you got. You have to unload JFW in order to interact with the application, because jaws takes full control of the keyboard. I don't understand how there's release after release of JAWS, with features no one ever requests, yet this simple feature, which I'd imagine tons of people would find useful, is never implemented. Unless this is more complicated than I thought?


Anyway, is there a script or something I can use to be able to use jaws and also things like games, without having to unload the thing all the time, or switching over to NVDA.

thanks in advance for any help!








Richard Turner
 

Right, but Jaws is still intercepting the keystrokes, he wants to have jaws ignore all keystrokes, which is impossible.

Unless of course, you go through the entire keyboard manager and undefine all the keystrokes.  Which means you may as well unload jaws.

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA.

“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.” - Søren Kierkegaard

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

🦅

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 9:47 AM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an application's keyboard commands

 

In the past, gamers have recommended using the layered insert-space, s command to silence speech when another application has speech output. If nothing else, this toggle is less dramatic than turning off JAWS altogether.

 

--

My novel Caroline is now available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook versions and, for qualified readers in the US, at the National Library Service/BARD. Go to: https://adrianspratt.com/book/

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 9:27 AM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfeering with an application's keyboard commands

 

There is no way to do this other than unloading Jaws completely.

I suppose you could go through the dozens if not hundreds of keyboard definitions and delete all of them, but then the screen reader would be useless, so just unload it during the game.

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA.

“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.” - Søren Kierkegaard

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

🦅

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:19 AM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfeering with an application's keyboard commands

 

Marten, thanks for that hotkey! It's super useful, however I'm afraid I did not phrase my question correctly. Let's try again.

 

What I was referring to, was a way for JAWS to let all keyboard keys through to an application. So in other words, is there a way to stop jaws from completely hijacking the keyboard when an application, such as a game, is loaded, without putting it to sleep or unloading the screen reader? Hope that clears things up, and thanks again for all your help!

 

On 9/25/2022 7:21 AM, Marten Post Uiterweer wrote:

Yohandy,

The jawskey+shift+z key is only working in the jaws2013 vbeta and in the 2013 version that will come out in october.

Regards, marten


On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 13:13:21 +0200 "Marten Post Uiterweer" <martenpu@...> wrote:

Yohandy,

That's the way Jaws is created. What application do you have difficulties with?
Is it a web-application, than you have the jawskey+shift+z. After this key, the quick navigation keys will no longer go to Jaws, but to the application.

Else you can disable keys for an application in keyboardmanager.

Regards, Marten

On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 18:35:17 -0400 "Yohandy" <yohandy85@...> wrote:

Hi all,

So I'm not sure how this hasn't been addressed by FS yet. You use a screen reader like NVDA< and you can pretty much do whatever you want with the keyboard, and the screen reader won't interfeer and will let the keys through to the 3application. If you use jaws, well there's the Jaws key 3 to let a key through, but that's all you got. You have to unload JFW in order to interact with the application, because jaws takes full control of the keyboard. I don't understand how there's release after release of JAWS, with features no one ever requests, yet this simple feature, which I'd imagine tons of people would find useful, is never implemented. Unless this is more complicated than I thought?


Anyway, is there a script or something I can use to be able to use jaws and also things like games, without having to unload the thing all the time, or switching over to NVDA.

thanks in advance for any help!




 


 

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 12:47 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:
In the past, gamers have recommended using the layered insert-space, s command to silence speech when another application has speech output.
-
But that does not seem to be what's being requested.

The request seems to be for a way to make JAWS still be active for narration (or so it seems) while not taking any keystrokes at all and passing everything through to the application, which is stated as being a game.

Speech output is easy to suspend, and sleeping JAWS does that, too, as well as what you recommended.  But it's "complete pass through" of all keyboard shortcuts that appears to be wanted, and I don't think that's supported by any screen reader.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


 

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 12:55 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Right, but Jaws is still intercepting the keystrokes, he wants to have jaws ignore all keystrokes, which is impossible.

Unless of course, you go through the entire keyboard manager and undefine all the keystrokes.  Which means you may as well unload jaws. 

-
Or sleep it, at the very least.

The whole request mystifies me, really, as JAWS should not be intercepting the vast majority of keyboard shortcuts for any underlying application, game or not.  There are, of course, a limited number of keyboard shortcuts available, but if the game is using a number of keyboard shortcuts that JAWS also uses for itself, there's no way around that while the screen reader remains active other than using the pass-through command, which is impractical for a great many gaming situations.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


chaltain@outlook.com
 

JAWS used to be able to be configured to go to sleep when a specific application was in focus. This was used for things like self voicing games and applications. I’m not sure if this is still in JAWS or not, and it’s been so long since I’ve used it, that I’m not sure if it even did what was requested.

 

--

Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷

Chaltain at Outlook, USA

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:01 PM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an application's keyboard commands

 

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 12:55 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Right, but Jaws is still intercepting the keystrokes, he wants to have jaws ignore all keystrokes, which is impossible.

Unless of course, you go through the entire keyboard manager and undefine all the keystrokes.  Which means you may as well unload jaws. 

-
Or sleep it, at the very least.

The whole request mystifies me, really, as JAWS should not be intercepting the vast majority of keyboard shortcuts for any underlying application, game or not.  There are, of course, a limited number of keyboard shortcuts available, but if the game is using a number of keyboard shortcuts that JAWS also uses for itself, there's no way around that while the screen reader remains active other than using the pass-through command, which is impractical for a great many gaming situations.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


Mario
 

Of course it is. Because if Kurzweil 1000 is launched, JAWS remains
silent until exiting K1k.


-------- Original Message --------
From: chaltain@... [mailto:chaltain@...]
Subject: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an
application's keyboard commands
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 1:22 PM
To: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io>
JAWS used to be able to be configured to go to sleep when a specific
application was in focus. This was used for things like self voicing
games and applications. I’m not sure if this is still in JAWS or not,
and it’s been so long since I’ve used it, that I’m not sure if it even
did what was requested.

--

Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷

Chaltain at Outlook, USA

*From:* jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:01 PM
*To:* jfw-users@groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an
application's keyboard commands

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 12:55 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Right, but Jaws is still intercepting the keystrokes, he wants to
have jaws ignore all keystrokes, which is impossible.

Unless of course, you go through the entire keyboard manager and
undefine all the keystrokes.  Which means you may as well unload jaws.

-
Or sleep it, at the very least.

The whole request mystifies me, really, as JAWS should not be
intercepting the vast majority of keyboard shortcuts for any underlying
application, game or not.  There are, of course, a limited number of
keyboard shortcuts available, but if the game is using a number of
keyboard shortcuts that JAWS also uses for itself, there's no way around
that while the screen reader remains active other than using the
pass-through command, which is impractical for a great many gaming
situations.
--

Brian *- *Virginia, USA*- *Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient
premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


Mario
 

In settings center (not with insert+v), search for sleep. Two settings
to enable or disable sleep mode or braille sleep mode.


-------- Original Message --------
From: Mario [mailto:mrb620@...]
Subject: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an
application's keyboard commands
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:29 PM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Of course it is. Because if Kurzweil 1000 is launched, JAWS remains
silent until exiting K1k.

-------- Original Message --------
From: chaltain@... [mailto:chaltain@...]
Subject: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an
application's keyboard commands
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 1:22 PM
To: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io>
JAWS used to be able to be configured to go to sleep when a specific
application was in focus. This was used for things like self voicing
games and applications. I’m not sure if this is still in JAWS or not,
and it’s been so long since I’ve used it, that I’m not sure if it even
did what was requested.

--

Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷

Chaltain at Outlook, USA

*From:* jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:01 PM
*To:* jfw-users@groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an
application's keyboard commands

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 12:55 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Right, but Jaws is still intercepting the keystrokes, he wants to
have jaws ignore all keystrokes, which is impossible.

Unless of course, you go through the entire keyboard manager and
undefine all the keystrokes.  Which means you may as well unload jaws.

-
Or sleep it, at the very least.

The whole request mystifies me, really, as JAWS should not be
intercepting the vast majority of keyboard shortcuts for any underlying
application, game or not.  There are, of course, a limited number of
keyboard shortcuts available, but if the game is using a number of
keyboard shortcuts that JAWS also uses for itself, there's no way around
that while the screen reader remains active other than using the
pass-through command, which is impractical for a great many gaming
situations.
--

Brian *- *Virginia, USA*- *Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient
premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


Richard Turner
 

Good call.

 

I forgot all about that.  The only program I use that uses Jaws Sleep mode is Openbook.

I don’t use it that much, but as I recall, that does stop Jaws from grabbing the keystrokes.

 

I will try that with a old Solitaire game I have that still runs on Windows 11 but Narrator is better with it than Jaws.

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA.

“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.” - Søren Kierkegaard

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

🦅

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 11:46 AM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an application's keyboard commands

 

In settings center (not with insert+v), search for sleep. Two settings
to enable or disable sleep mode or braille sleep mode.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Mario [mailto:mrb620@...]
Subject: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an
application's keyboard commands
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:29 PM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Of course it is. Because if Kurzweil 1000 is launched, JAWS remains
silent until exiting K1k.

-------- Original Message --------
From: chaltain@... [mailto:chaltain@...]
Subject: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an
application's keyboard commands
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 1:22 PM
To: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io>
JAWS used to be able to be configured to go to sleep when a specific
application was in focus. This was used for things like self voicing
games and applications. I’m not sure if this is still in JAWS or not,
and it’s been so long since I’ve used it, that I’m not sure if it even
did what was requested.

--

Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷

Chaltain at Outlook, USA

*From:* jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:01 PM
*To:* jfw-users@groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an
application's keyboard commands

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 12:55 PM, Richard Turner wrote:

Right, but Jaws is still intercepting the keystrokes, he wants to
have jaws ignore all keystrokes, which is impossible.

Unless of course, you go through the entire keyboard manager and
undefine all the keystrokes.  Which means you may as well unload jaws.

-
Or sleep it, at the very least.

The whole request mystifies me, really, as JAWS should not be
intercepting the vast majority of keyboard shortcuts for any underlying
application, game or not.  There are, of course, a limited number of
keyboard shortcuts available, but if the game is using a number of
keyboard shortcuts that JAWS also uses for itself, there's no way around
that while the screen reader remains active other than using the
pass-through command, which is impractical for a great many gaming
situations.
--

Brian *- *Virginia, USA*- *Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient
premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


Mario
 

Brian, wouldn't putting JAWS to sleep for a particular program achieve
complete pass through?


-------- Original Message --------
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Subject: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an
application's keyboard commands
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 12:57 PM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 12:47 PM, Adrian Spratt wrote:

In the past, gamers have recommended using the layered insert-space,
s command to silence speech when another application has speech output.

-
But that does not seem to be what's being requested.

The request seems to be for a way to make JAWS still be active for
narration (or so it seems) while not taking any keystrokes at all and
passing everything through to the application, which is stated as being
a game.

Speech output is easy to suspend, and sleeping JAWS does that, too, as
well as what you recommended.  But it's "complete pass through" of all
keyboard shortcuts that appears to be wanted, and I don't think that's
supported by any screen reader.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA- Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient
premises.

~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


 

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 03:02 PM, Mario wrote:
Brian, wouldn't putting JAWS to sleep for a particular program achieve
complete pass through?
-
With the exception of the toggle for wake, yes.

Since, however, this topic has now been split, I am going to repost the original query:
-------
So I'm not sure how this hasn't been addressed by FS yet. You use a screen reader like NVDA and you can pretty much do whatever you want with the keyboard, and the screen reader won't interfere and will let the keys through to the application. If you use jaws, well there's the Jaws key 3 to let a key through, but that's all you got. You have to unload JFW in order to interact with the application, because jaws takes full control of the keyboard. I don't understand how there's release after release of JAWS, with features no one ever requests, yet this simple feature, which I'd imagine tons of people would find useful, is never implemented. Unless this is more complicated than I thought?

Anyway, is there a script or something I can use to be able to use jaws and also things like games, without having to unload the thing all the time, or switching over to NVDA.
-------

Nothing about what is described makes the slightest bit of sense to me.  JAWS does not comandeer the keyboard to a greater or lesser extent than any other screen reader does.  There may be a few odd JAWS specific commands (like there could be a few odd Narrator or NVDA commands) that are used by the underlying application as well, that do get processed by the screen reader without use of the pass-through command, but they're pretty rare on the whole.

The original statements, "You use a screen reader like NVDA and you can pretty much do whatever you want with the keyboard, and the screen reader won't interfere and will let the keys through to the application. If you use jaws, well there's the Jaws key 3 to let a key through, but that's all you got. You have to unload JFW in order to interact with the application, because jaws takes full control of the keyboard," bear no resemblence to my personal experience with JAWS versus NVDA.  NVDA has a pass-through command just as JAWS does, and for precisely the same reason.  The claim is, in my opinion, utterly inaccurate and without merit.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


Mario
 

yeah, the original post makes no sense. I would like to know why the
issue/question was brought up?


-------- Original Message --------
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Subject: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an
application's keyboard commands
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 3:10 PM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 03:02 PM, Mario wrote:

Brian, wouldn't putting JAWS to sleep for a particular program achieve
complete pass through?

-
With the exception of the toggle for wake, yes.

Since, however, this topic has now been split, I am going to repost the
original query:
-------
So I'm not sure how this hasn't been addressed by FS yet. You use a
screen reader like NVDA and you can pretty much do whatever you want
with the keyboard, and the screen reader won't interfere and will let
the keys through to the application. If you use jaws, well there's the
Jaws key 3 to let a key through, but that's all you got. You have to
unload JFW in order to interact with the application, because jaws takes
full control of the keyboard. I don't understand how there's release
after release of JAWS, with features no one ever requests, yet this
simple feature, which I'd imagine tons of people would find useful, is
never implemented. Unless this is more complicated than I thought?

Anyway, is there a script or something I can use to be able to use jaws
and also things like games, without having to unload the thing all the
time, or switching over to NVDA.
-------

Nothing about what is described makes the slightest bit of sense to me.
JAWS does not comandeer the keyboard to a greater or lesser extent than
any other screen reader does.  There may be a few odd JAWS specific
commands (like there could be a few odd Narrator or NVDA commands) that
are used by the underlying application as well, that do get processed by
the screen reader without use of the pass-through command, but they're
pretty rare on the whole.

The original statements, "You use a screen reader like NVDA and you can
pretty much do whatever you want with the keyboard, and the screen
reader won't interfere and will let the keys through to the application.
If you use jaws, well there's the Jaws key 3 to let a key through, but
that's all you got. You have to unload JFW in order to interact with the
application, because jaws takes full control of the keyboard," bear no
resemblence to my personal experience with JAWS versus NVDA.  NVDA has a
pass-through command just as JAWS does, and for precisely the same
reason.  The claim is, in my opinion, utterly inaccurate and without merit.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA- Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient
premises.

~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


Richard Turner
 

Not only does the original post make little sense, but unloading Jaws is one easy keystroke, insert+f4 and loading Jaws with a hot key again, is rather simple.  And, if you are gaming, your computer better be able to process things quickly, so the unloading and loading of Jaws should not take but a very few seconds.

 

Or of course, the person could just use NVDA if that doesn’t interfere with the game.

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA.

“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.” - Søren Kierkegaard

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

🦅

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mario
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:24 PM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an application's keyboard commands

 

yeah, the original post makes no sense. I would like to know why the
issue/question was brought up?

-------- Original Message --------
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Subject: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an
application's keyboard commands
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 3:10 PM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 03:02 PM, Mario wrote:

Brian, wouldn't putting JAWS to sleep for a particular program achieve
complete pass through?

-
With the exception of the toggle for wake, yes.

Since, however, this topic has now been split, I am going to repost the
original query:
-------
So I'm not sure how this hasn't been addressed by FS yet. You use a
screen reader like NVDA and you can pretty much do whatever you want
with the keyboard, and the screen reader won't interfere and will let
the keys through to the application. If you use jaws, well there's the
Jaws key 3 to let a key through, but that's all you got. You have to
unload JFW in order to interact with the application, because jaws takes
full control of the keyboard. I don't understand how there's release
after release of JAWS, with features no one ever requests, yet this
simple feature, which I'd imagine tons of people would find useful, is
never implemented. Unless this is more complicated than I thought?

Anyway, is there a script or something I can use to be able to use jaws
and also things like games, without having to unload the thing all the
time, or switching over to NVDA.
-------

Nothing about what is described makes the slightest bit of sense to me.
JAWS does not comandeer the keyboard to a greater or lesser extent than
any other screen reader does.  There may be a few odd JAWS specific
commands (like there could be a few odd Narrator or NVDA commands) that
are used by the underlying application as well, that do get processed by
the screen reader without use of the pass-through command, but they're
pretty rare on the whole.

The original statements, "You use a screen reader like NVDA and you can
pretty much do whatever you want with the keyboard, and the screen
reader won't interfere and will let the keys through to the application.
If you use jaws, well there's the Jaws key 3 to let a key through, but
that's all you got. You have to unload JFW in order to interact with the
application, because jaws takes full control of the keyboard," bear no
resemblence to my personal experience with JAWS versus NVDA.  NVDA has a
pass-through command just as JAWS does, and for precisely the same
reason.  The claim is, in my opinion, utterly inaccurate and without merit.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA- Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient
premises.

~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


Yohandy
 

Yeah it puts the synth to sleep as well, so no speech from the game using Jaws, which is why that option isn't always useful in my case. Some of you mentioned there's no way to pass all keystrokes through to the application using any screen reader, except for the fact that NVDA does exactly this, with no problems. I'm actually really curious how they manage that. Anyone know?



On 9/27/2022 3:10 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 03:02 PM, Mario wrote:
Brian, wouldn't putting JAWS to sleep for a particular program achieve
complete pass through?
-
With the exception of the toggle for wake, yes.

Since, however, this topic has now been split, I am going to repost the original query:
-------
So I'm not sure how this hasn't been addressed by FS yet. You use a screen reader like NVDA and you can pretty much do whatever you want with the keyboard, and the screen reader won't interfere and will let the keys through to the application. If you use jaws, well there's the Jaws key 3 to let a key through, but that's all you got. You have to unload JFW in order to interact with the application, because jaws takes full control of the keyboard. I don't understand how there's release after release of JAWS, with features no one ever requests, yet this simple feature, which I'd imagine tons of people would find useful, is never implemented. Unless this is more complicated than I thought?

Anyway, is there a script or something I can use to be able to use jaws and also things like games, without having to unload the thing all the time, or switching over to NVDA.
-------

Nothing about what is described makes the slightest bit of sense to me.  JAWS does not comandeer the keyboard to a greater or lesser extent than any other screen reader does.  There may be a few odd JAWS specific commands (like there could be a few odd Narrator or NVDA commands) that are used by the underlying application as well, that do get processed by the screen reader without use of the pass-through command, but they're pretty rare on the whole.

The original statements, "You use a screen reader like NVDA and you can pretty much do whatever you want with the keyboard, and the screen reader won't interfere and will let the keys through to the application. If you use jaws, well there's the Jaws key 3 to let a key through, but that's all you got. You have to unload JFW in order to interact with the application, because jaws takes full control of the keyboard," bear no resemblence to my personal experience with JAWS versus NVDA.  NVDA has a pass-through command just as JAWS does, and for precisely the same reason.  The claim is, in my opinion, utterly inaccurate and without merit.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


 

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 06:55 PM, Yohandy wrote:
Some of you mentioned there's no way to pass all keystrokes through to the application using any screen reader, except for the fact that NVDA does exactly this, with no problems.
-
No, it doesn't.  No screen reader does this when it's active.

NVDA handles keystrokes exactly in the same way that JAWS does, and it's in the place in the hierarchy between Windows proper and the application where JAWS is.
 
You are not describing anything at all accurately, as those of us who use or have used both JAWS and NVDA know that neither can or does "pass all keystrokes through to the underlying application" when operating in the way they normally operate.  And I know of no way to make NVDA do this other than what's been mentioned already for JAWS.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


Yohandy
 

Since I'm apparently not describing anything accurately, then please feel free to enlighten me: If you play a game with JAWS loaded, in most circumstances, you have to continuously press insert 3 followed by whatever keystroke  you're trying to use. You can't even use arrow keys to go through game menus. With NVDA, I never had that issue. Perhaps there's a simple explanation I'm missing here.



On 9/27/2022 7:00 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 06:55 PM, Yohandy wrote:
Some of you mentioned there's no way to pass all keystrokes through to the application using any screen reader, except for the fact that NVDA does exactly this, with no problems.
-
No, it doesn't.  No screen reader does this when it's active.

NVDA handles keystrokes exactly in the same way that JAWS does, and it's in the place in the hierarchy between Windows proper and the application where JAWS is.
 
You are not describing anything at all accurately, as those of us who use or have used both JAWS and NVDA know that neither can or does "pass all keystrokes through to the underlying application" when operating in the way they normally operate.  And I know of no way to make NVDA do this other than what's been mentioned already for JAWS.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


 

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 07:26 PM, Yohandy wrote:
If you play a game with JAWS loaded,
-
Oh, no.  I'm not playing the abstract example game.

It doesn't matter if it's a game, or an application like Notepad, File Explorer, etc.  The structural rules of how and where a screen reader intervenes and works is the same.

You either give exact examples that others can try to replicate, or this discussion is done.  
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


Yohandy
 

Ah, so now it's inaccurate and abstract. gotcha. If anyone else has any ideas, please feel free to write me off list.

thanks!





On 9/27/2022 7:30 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 07:26 PM, Yohandy wrote:
If you play a game with JAWS loaded,
-
Oh, no.  I'm not playing the abstract example game.

It doesn't matter if it's a game, or an application like Notepad, File Explorer, etc.  The structural rules of how and where a screen reader intervenes and works is the same.

You either give exact examples that others can try to replicate, or this discussion is done.  
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


 

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 07:52 PM, Yohandy wrote:
Ah, so now it's inaccurate and abstract. gotcha.
-
Most hoo-ha is exactly both of those things.  I have very good powers of perception.

That you haven't noticed anyone, not a single person, backing you up doesn't seem to tell you anything.

Give examples, or go home.   Technical issues are not solved in the abstract.  And inaccurate garbage is not solved, period.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902


chris judge
 

Another option is to go in to settings center and, under miscellaneous options, set jaws to sleep automatically when the game is run.

 

Chris Judge

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: September 27, 2022 1:55 PM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an application's keyboard commands

 

Right, but Jaws is still intercepting the keystrokes, he wants to have jaws ignore all keystrokes, which is impossible.

Unless of course, you go through the entire keyboard manager and undefine all the keystrokes.  Which means you may as well unload jaws.

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA.

“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.” - Søren Kierkegaard

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

🦅

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 9:47 AM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an application's keyboard commands

 

In the past, gamers have recommended using the layered insert-space, s command to silence speech when another application has speech output. If nothing else, this toggle is less dramatic than turning off JAWS altogether.

 

--

My novel Caroline is now available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook versions and, for qualified readers in the US, at the National Library Service/BARD. Go to: https://adrianspratt.com/book/

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 9:27 AM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfeering with an application's keyboard commands

 

There is no way to do this other than unloading Jaws completely.

I suppose you could go through the dozens if not hundreds of keyboard definitions and delete all of them, but then the screen reader would be useless, so just unload it during the game.

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA.

“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.” - Søren Kierkegaard

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

🦅

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:19 AM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfeering with an application's keyboard commands

 

Marten, thanks for that hotkey! It's super useful, however I'm afraid I did not phrase my question correctly. Let's try again.

 

What I was referring to, was a way for JAWS to let all keyboard keys through to an application. So in other words, is there a way to stop jaws from completely hijacking the keyboard when an application, such as a game, is loaded, without putting it to sleep or unloading the screen reader? Hope that clears things up, and thanks again for all your help!

 

On 9/25/2022 7:21 AM, Marten Post Uiterweer wrote:

Yohandy,

The jawskey+shift+z key is only working in the jaws2013 vbeta and in the 2013 version that will come out in october.

Regards, marten


On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 13:13:21 +0200 "Marten Post Uiterweer" <martenpu@...> wrote:

Yohandy,

That's the way Jaws is created. What application do you have difficulties with?
Is it a web-application, than you have the jawskey+shift+z. After this key, the quick navigation keys will no longer go to Jaws, but to the application.

Else you can disable keys for an application in keyboardmanager.

Regards, Marten

On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 18:35:17 -0400 "Yohandy" <yohandy85@...> wrote:

Hi all,

So I'm not sure how this hasn't been addressed by FS yet. You use a screen reader like NVDA< and you can pretty much do whatever you want with the keyboard, and the screen reader won't interfeer and will let the keys through to the 3application. If you use jaws, well there's the Jaws key 3 to let a key through, but that's all you got. You have to unload JFW in order to interact with the application, because jaws takes full control of the keyboard. I don't understand how there's release after release of JAWS, with features no one ever requests, yet this simple feature, which I'd imagine tons of people would find useful, is never implemented. Unless this is more complicated than I thought?


Anyway, is there a script or something I can use to be able to use jaws and also things like games, without having to unload the thing all the time, or switching over to NVDA.

thanks in advance for any help!



 


chris judge
 

 

 

Chris Judge

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: September 27, 2022 1:55 PM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an application's keyboard commands

 

Right, but Jaws is still intercepting the keystrokes, he wants to have jaws ignore all keystrokes, which is impossible.

Unless of course, you go through the entire keyboard manager and undefine all the keystrokes.  Which means you may as well unload jaws.

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA.

“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.” - Søren Kierkegaard

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

🦅

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 9:47 AM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfering with an application's keyboard commands

 

In the past, gamers have recommended using the layered insert-space, s command to silence speech when another application has speech output. If nothing else, this toggle is less dramatic than turning off JAWS altogether.

 

--

My novel Caroline is now available in paperback, Kindle and audiobook versions and, for qualified readers in the US, at the National Library Service/BARD. Go to: https://adrianspratt.com/book/

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 9:27 AM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfeering with an application's keyboard commands

 

There is no way to do this other than unloading Jaws completely.

I suppose you could go through the dozens if not hundreds of keyboard definitions and delete all of them, but then the screen reader would be useless, so just unload it during the game.

 

 

 

 

Richard, USA.

“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.” - Søren Kierkegaard

 

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

🦅

 

From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Yohandy
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:19 AM
To: jfw-users@groups.io
Subject: Re: [jfw-users] How to stop jaws from interfeering with an application's keyboard commands

 

Marten, thanks for that hotkey! It's super useful, however I'm afraid I did not phrase my question correctly. Let's try again.

 

What I was referring to, was a way for JAWS to let all keyboard keys through to an application. So in other words, is there a way to stop jaws from completely hijacking the keyboard when an application, such as a game, is loaded, without putting it to sleep or unloading the screen reader? Hope that clears things up, and thanks again for all your help!

 

On 9/25/2022 7:21 AM, Marten Post Uiterweer wrote:

Yohandy,

The jawskey+shift+z key is only working in the jaws2013 vbeta and in the 2013 version that will come out in october.

Regards, marten


On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 13:13:21 +0200 "Marten Post Uiterweer" <martenpu@...> wrote:

Yohandy,

That's the way Jaws is created. What application do you have difficulties with?
Is it a web-application, than you have the jawskey+shift+z. After this key, the quick navigation keys will no longer go to Jaws, but to the application.

Else you can disable keys for an application in keyboardmanager.

Regards, Marten

On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 18:35:17 -0400 "Yohandy" <yohandy85@...> wrote:

Hi all,

So I'm not sure how this hasn't been addressed by FS yet. You use a screen reader like NVDA< and you can pretty much do whatever you want with the keyboard, and the screen reader won't interfeer and will let the keys through to the 3application. If you use jaws, well there's the Jaws key 3 to let a key through, but that's all you got. You have to unload JFW in order to interact with the application, because jaws takes full control of the keyboard. I don't understand how there's release after release of JAWS, with features no one ever requests, yet this simple feature, which I'd imagine tons of people would find useful, is never implemented. Unless this is more complicated than I thought?


Anyway, is there a script or something I can use to be able to use jaws and also things like games, without having to unload the thing all the time, or switching over to NVDA.

thanks in advance for any help!