New Subscriber Contemplating Switching from NVDA to JAWS with A Few Questions
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Hi all. I've been playing with JAWS 2022 for a little while now. I'm a
long-time user of NVDA and like it, but I'm interested in some of the features JAWS provides that NVDA doesn't, and I'd like to start using Braille more since I love Braille and am autistic and sometimes have periods of sensory overload with all my screen readers going off around me and other noises in my environment. I know JAWS provides better Braille support, and I'm hoping to get a Braille display soon. I have a few questions though. Are there any resources for finding scripts? I'm used to looking for add-ons in one location, like the NVDA add-ons website. Also, is there a way to make JAWS speak passwords? With NVDA, I have an add-on that does this. Does anyone know of any training resources for people who already know how to use a computer, advanced computer users, or people who have used other screen readers? I looked at the basic training materials, but they seemed a little basic for my needs. Finally, is there anyone who has made this switch and might be able to give me some tips on switching? Thanks.
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Richard Turner
I will try to help with part of your questions.
One resource for Jaws scripts is a site by Doug Lee: https://dlee.org I tis best to always read the specific entry about the script before installing it.
I’m sure others have other sources for scripts, but as far as I know, Freedom Scientific doesn’t maintain a site of available scripts.
I cannot address whether Jaws has better braille support at this stage since NVDA recently added the HID Braille protocol.
I was never a solid NVDA user but the fact that many of the keystrokes are similar and most all are user defineable, that should help in the transition.
I’m not sure of any good training sites. I learned it from asking questions on this list and getting some basic training from my colleagues when I was working at a rehab center teaching braille and adaptive devices and had to use Jaws for all the documentation, client database, etc.
All I can say, is Jaws is massively complex; and sometimes I wonder if all the complexity is necessary.
Good luck,
Richard
My web site; https://www.turner42.com/
From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Lanie Molinar
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 9:49 PM To: JFW-Users@groups.io Subject: [jfw-users] New Subscriber Contemplating Switching from NVDA to JAWS with A Few Questions
Hi all. I've been playing with JAWS 2022 for a little while now. I'm a
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David Goldfield
Hi. I’ve been using JAWS for Windows since version 1.0 began shipping in 1995 as well as NVDA since the summer of 2009 so I think that I can speak about both the similarities as well as the differences between the two screen readers. Regarding sources for scripts another excellent resource is Hartgen Consultancy. Unlike Doug Lee’s Web site which Richard mentioned in his message the majority of Brian Hartgen’s scripts are not free of cost but they are well worth it. I am quite a fan of Leasey, which adds a lot of additional and extremely useful functionality to JAWS. The JAWS-users.com Scripts page has a collection of free scripts which can be downloaded. The Snowman also offers some scripts. Unfortunately, we really don’t have a single script repository which is maintained by the community the way that NVDA does and, as Richard very correctly said, Freedom Scientific doesn’t maintain one. During the early days of JAWS when scripts were referred to as macros they did offer a small collection of JAWS macros but this went away probably around the time version 3.0 was released. This is, in my opinion, a missed opportunity. It would be the equivalent of Amazon selling Kindles but telling people that they need to find their own books from Joe’s Kindle Books page and other third-party Web sites. The only way to work around this is for the community to come together and organize their own repository of JAWS scripts. I don’t know if a script exists to allow JAWS to speak passwords as they are entered.
Regarding training if you open the Help menu from the JAWS window and then open the Web Resources submenu you’ll find an option called Surfing The Internet which offers interactive training covering how to use JAWS on the Web. There are also links in the Web Resources menu to online training resources and recordings of webinars. While Freedom Scientific lacks resources for scripts they are certainly not lacking when it comes to the amount of training sessions they have offered, many of which go beyond the basics. They also have a Youtube channel offering shorter lessons covering a variety of computer applications. Also, the American Council of the Blind’s ACB Community podcast offers a large collection of webinars conducted by Freedom Scientific with many of them doing a deep dive into specific JAWS features. Look for “ACB Community” wherever you get your podcasts and you’ll likely find it. Not all of the podcast episodes are from FS but there’s a nice assortment of them contained in that list. Brian Hartgen of Hartgen Consultancy, who I mentioned earlier, also sells recordings of previously conducted training classes covering the use of JAWS and a variety of applications. His Microsoft Word tutorial is several years old and so parts of it are a bit outdated but it along with the other tutorials he offers is excellent and he is one of the finest trainers out there. Finally, Cathy Anne Murtha’s Access Technology Institute sells a variety of training textbooks covering the use of JAWS with several applications. Hope that helps.
David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field. Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io
From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Richard Turner
I will try to help with part of your questions.
One resource for Jaws scripts is a site by Doug Lee: https://dlee.org I tis best to always read the specific entry about the script before installing it.
I’m sure others have other sources for scripts, but as far as I know, Freedom Scientific doesn’t maintain a site of available scripts.
I cannot address whether Jaws has better braille support at this stage since NVDA recently added the HID Braille protocol.
I was never a solid NVDA user but the fact that many of the keystrokes are similar and most all are user defineable, that should help in the transition.
I’m not sure of any good training sites. I learned it from asking questions on this list and getting some basic training from my colleagues when I was working at a rehab center teaching braille and adaptive devices and had to use Jaws for all the documentation, client database, etc.
All I can say, is Jaws is massively complex; and sometimes I wonder if all the complexity is necessary.
Good luck,
Richard
My web site; https://www.turner42.com/
From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io>
On Behalf Of Lanie Molinar
Hi all. I've been playing with JAWS 2022 for a little while now. I'm a
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I’d also recommend David Kingsbury’s excellent book The Windows Screen Reader Primer: All the Basics and More which has sections on both JAWS and NVDA. You can obtain it from this website:
https://carroll.org/the-windows-screen-reader-primer/
Alan Lemly
From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:49 AM To: jfw-users@groups.io Subject: Re: [jfw-users] New Subscriber Contemplating Switching from NVDA to JAWS with A Few Questions
Hi. I’ve been using JAWS for Windows since version 1.0 began shipping in 1995 as well as NVDA since the summer of 2009 so I think that I can speak about both the similarities as well as the differences between the two screen readers. Regarding sources for scripts another excellent resource is Hartgen Consultancy. Unlike Doug Lee’s Web site which Richard mentioned in his message the majority of Brian Hartgen’s scripts are not free of cost but they are well worth it. I am quite a fan of Leasey, which adds a lot of additional and extremely useful functionality to JAWS. The JAWS-users.com Scripts page has a collection of free scripts which can be downloaded. The Snowman also offers some scripts. Unfortunately, we really don’t have a single script repository which is maintained by the community the way that NVDA does and, as Richard very correctly said, Freedom Scientific doesn’t maintain one. During the early days of JAWS when scripts were referred to as macros they did offer a small collection of JAWS macros but this went away probably around the time version 3.0 was released. This is, in my opinion, a missed opportunity. It would be the equivalent of Amazon selling Kindles but telling people that they need to find their own books from Joe’s Kindle Books page and other third-party Web sites. The only way to work around this is for the community to come together and organize their own repository of JAWS scripts. I don’t know if a script exists to allow JAWS to speak passwords as they are entered.
Regarding training if you open the Help menu from the JAWS window and then open the Web Resources submenu you’ll find an option called Surfing The Internet which offers interactive training covering how to use JAWS on the Web. There are also links in the Web Resources menu to online training resources and recordings of webinars. While Freedom Scientific lacks resources for scripts they are certainly not lacking when it comes to the amount of training sessions they have offered, many of which go beyond the basics. They also have a Youtube channel offering shorter lessons covering a variety of computer applications. Also, the American Council of the Blind’s ACB Community podcast offers a large collection of webinars conducted by Freedom Scientific with many of them doing a deep dive into specific JAWS features. Look for “ACB Community” wherever you get your podcasts and you’ll likely find it. Not all of the podcast episodes are from FS but there’s a nice assortment of them contained in that list. Brian Hartgen of Hartgen Consultancy, who I mentioned earlier, also sells recordings of previously conducted training classes covering the use of JAWS and a variety of applications. His Microsoft Word tutorial is several years old and so parts of it are a bit outdated but it along with the other tutorials he offers is excellent and he is one of the finest trainers out there. Finally, Cathy Anne Murtha’s Access Technology Institute sells a variety of training textbooks covering the use of JAWS with several applications. Hope that helps.
David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field. Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io
From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
I will try to help with part of your questions.
One resource for Jaws scripts is a site by Doug Lee: https://dlee.org I tis best to always read the specific entry about the script before installing it.
I’m sure others have other sources for scripts, but as far as I know, Freedom Scientific doesn’t maintain a site of available scripts.
I cannot address whether Jaws has better braille support at this stage since NVDA recently added the HID Braille protocol.
I was never a solid NVDA user but the fact that many of the keystrokes are similar and most all are user defineable, that should help in the transition.
I’m not sure of any good training sites. I learned it from asking questions on this list and getting some basic training from my colleagues when I was working at a rehab center teaching braille and adaptive devices and had to use Jaws for all the documentation, client database, etc.
All I can say, is Jaws is massively complex; and sometimes I wonder if all the complexity is necessary.
Good luck,
Richard
My web site; https://www.turner42.com/
From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Lanie Molinar
Hi all. I've been playing with JAWS 2022 for a little while now. I'm a
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LaTour, Mark
Wow, what an impressive resource! You are definitely what I would call a true expert. It is an honor to be part of this list with people such as yourself on it.
Thanks for sharing the info…
From: jfw-users@groups.io [mailto:jfw-users@groups.io] On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 9:49 AM To: jfw-users@groups.io Subject: Re: [jfw-users] New Subscriber Contemplating Switching from NVDA to JAWS with A Few Questions
Hi. I’ve been using JAWS for Windows since version 1.0 began shipping in 1995 as well as NVDA since the summer of 2009 so I think that I can speak about both the similarities as well as the differences between the two screen readers. Regarding sources for scripts another excellent resource is Hartgen Consultancy. Unlike Doug Lee’s Web site which Richard mentioned in his message the majority of Brian Hartgen’s scripts are not free of cost but they are well worth it. I am quite a fan of Leasey, which adds a lot of additional and extremely useful functionality to JAWS. The JAWS-users.com Scripts page has a collection of free scripts which can be downloaded. The Snowman also offers some scripts. Unfortunately, we really don’t have a single script repository which is maintained by the community the way that NVDA does and, as Richard very correctly said, Freedom Scientific doesn’t maintain one. During the early days of JAWS when scripts were referred to as macros they did offer a small collection of JAWS macros but this went away probably around the time version 3.0 was released. This is, in my opinion, a missed opportunity. It would be the equivalent of Amazon selling Kindles but telling people that they need to find their own books from Joe’s Kindle Books page and other third-party Web sites. The only way to work around this is for the community to come together and organize their own repository of JAWS scripts. I don’t know if a script exists to allow JAWS to speak passwords as they are entered.
Regarding training if you open the Help menu from the JAWS window and then open the Web Resources submenu you’ll find an option called Surfing The Internet which offers interactive training covering how to use JAWS on the Web. There are also links in the Web Resources menu to online training resources and recordings of webinars. While Freedom Scientific lacks resources for scripts they are certainly not lacking when it comes to the amount of training sessions they have offered, many of which go beyond the basics. They also have a Youtube channel offering shorter lessons covering a variety of computer applications. Also, the American Council of the Blind’s ACB Community podcast offers a large collection of webinars conducted by Freedom Scientific with many of them doing a deep dive into specific JAWS features. Look for “ACB Community” wherever you get your podcasts and you’ll likely find it. Not all of the podcast episodes are from FS but there’s a nice assortment of them contained in that list. Brian Hartgen of Hartgen Consultancy, who I mentioned earlier, also sells recordings of previously conducted training classes covering the use of JAWS and a variety of applications. His Microsoft Word tutorial is several years old and so parts of it are a bit outdated but it along with the other tutorials he offers is excellent and he is one of the finest trainers out there. Finally, Cathy Anne Murtha’s Access Technology Institute sells a variety of training textbooks covering the use of JAWS with several applications. Hope that helps.
David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field. Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io
From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
I will try to help with part of your questions.
One resource for Jaws scripts is a site by Doug Lee: https://dlee.org I tis best to always read the specific entry about the script before installing it.
I’m sure others have other sources for scripts, but as far as I know, Freedom Scientific doesn’t maintain a site of available scripts.
I cannot address whether Jaws has better braille support at this stage since NVDA recently added the HID Braille protocol.
I was never a solid NVDA user but the fact that many of the keystrokes are similar and most all are user defineable, that should help in the transition.
I’m not sure of any good training sites. I learned it from asking questions on this list and getting some basic training from my colleagues when I was working at a rehab center teaching braille and adaptive devices and had to use Jaws for all the documentation, client database, etc.
All I can say, is Jaws is massively complex; and sometimes I wonder if all the complexity is necessary.
Good luck,
Richard
My web site; https://www.turner42.com/
From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Lanie Molinar
Hi all. I've been playing with JAWS 2022 for a little while now. I'm a
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Orlando Enrique Fiol
Hi, Lanie.
>I've been playing with JAWS 2022 for a little while now. I'm a >long-time user of NVDA and like it, but I'm interested in some of the >features JAWS >provides that NVDA doesn't, and I'd like to start using Braille more >since I love Braille and am autistic and sometimes have periods of >sensory overload >with all my screen readers going off around me and other noises in my >environment. I know JAWS provides better Braille support, and I'm hoping >to get a >Braille display soon. I don't use JAWS with a Braille display because I don't own one, but I can speak to its other features, since I took to JAWS, kicking and screaming from Windows-eyes after my beloved screen reader was un ceremonially massacred by then VFOGroup. To me, JAWS' most powerful features include voice aliases, speech&sound schemes and easily loaded voice profiles. With speech&sound schemes, you can assign specific voices or sounds to control types and states. If you wanted, for instance, you could have checked and unchecked sounds, so that when you tab past rows of check boxes, you wouldn't have to await the reeding of each box's state. You can assign specific sounds and voices to color attributes or fonts, for easy proofreading. You can even customize the strings JAWS speaks for each control or attribute it reports. Some folks identify check boxes as tick boxes, with their states as being ticked and un ticked. In a speech&sound scheme, they could have JAWS report check boxes as tick boxes and checked/unchecked as ticked/un ticked. >I have a few questions though. Are there any >resources for finding scripts? I'm used to looking for add-ons in one >location, like >the NVDA add-ons website. I've never encountered such a resource. Most JAWS script writers have websites listing their scripts and providing download links, but Vispero doesn't seem to oversee a scripts repository, since all scripts it produces come packaged with JAWS anyway. >Also, is there a way to make JAWS speak >passwords? With NVDA, I have an add-on that does this. This is unfortunately still impossible, much to the consternation of those of us who don't want to hear our passwords spoken as stars. If an application/website doesn't have a password-showing option, there's just no way to hear it spoken except by turning on keyboard character and word echo, so you can at least hear as you type. >Does anyone know of any training >resources for people who already know how to use a computer, advanced >computer users, or people who have used other screen readers? I looked >at the basic training materials, but they seemed a little basic for my needs. That's also my frustration.Truth is, advanced users don't need the same kinds of training materials as basic users, since we need much less explanation than they do. So, it's often enough to consult references for, say, hotkeys, commands or configuration settings, since it's assumed that we'd knnow how to implement them. >Finally, is there anyone who has made this switch and might be able to >give me some tips on switching? Thanks. I switched from Window-eyes, but have never been much of an NVDAa user, since it seems almost equivalent to Narrator in terms of functionality (or lack thereof). When II began using NVDa, I learned, to my horror, that Ii couldn't customize the order in which control types and states are read. this is, to me, a basic screen reader capability. so, upon asking on the NVDA list about this, I was told that its coders hadn't bothered dealing with this. That and other things put me off using NVDA as my primary screen reader. I couldn't return to system-wide voice profiles after having different voices load with Window-eyes setfiles or specific applications in JAWS. I also think NVDA's screen/cursor review interface is awkward and clunky. With the touch and JAWS cursors, I just invoke their hotkeys and they're active; I don't have to toggle or cycle through menus to determine whether there are objects in the window, then expand each object to see if there are others nested within it. This information should be revealed through navigation. You shouldn't need the extra step of choosing the cursor review mode, then navigating within it. For that reason, Ii find NVDA's mouse echo superior any JAWS or Narrator equivalent. With its directional tones within the stereo field, I can immediately tell when the mouse is moving left or right. Up and down are represented by pitch changes, which is cleverly efficient. I'm glad to compare notes and share any resources I have with you. Good luck, and keep in touch, Orlando Orlando Enrique Fiol Charlotte, North Carolina Professional Pianist/Keyboardist, Percussionist and Pedagogue Ph.D. in Music theory University of Pennsylvania: November, 2018 Home: (980) 236-8685 Mobile: (267) 971-7090
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Cristóbal
For me and what always brings me back to Jaws whenever I try using NVDA for a longer period of time is the fact that NVDA doesn’t really have a full complement of laptop keyboard navigation commands. Yes, I know you can use the four arrow keys and the insert+L command for say current line, but at least in my workflow, I find it more comfortable and efficient to be able to have all the options provided to me by Jaws (navigate by character, word, line sentence, paragraph) on the keyboard with the caps lock key acting as the insert key and not having to bother with switching back and forth with the arrow keys. It may seem like a small thing, but when you’re dealing with emails all day, stuff like that quickly stands out. One thing I will say though is that it’s cool that NVDA offers contracted Spanish Braille whereas Jaws doesn’t. It’s really hard to find any resources in Spanish grade 2. Here in the States. I’ll load NVDA for this purpose and read Spanish language eBooks on my Braille display just to keep up my Spanish Braille.
From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2022 7:49 AM To: jfw-users@groups.io Subject: Re: [jfw-users] New Subscriber Contemplating Switching from NVDA to JAWS with A Few Questions
Hi. I’ve been using JAWS for Windows since version 1.0 began shipping in 1995 as well as NVDA since the summer of 2009 so I think that I can speak about both the similarities as well as the differences between the two screen readers. Regarding sources for scripts another excellent resource is Hartgen Consultancy. Unlike Doug Lee’s Web site which Richard mentioned in his message the majority of Brian Hartgen’s scripts are not free of cost but they are well worth it. I am quite a fan of Leasey, which adds a lot of additional and extremely useful functionality to JAWS. The JAWS-users.com Scripts page has a collection of free scripts which can be downloaded. The Snowman also offers some scripts. Unfortunately, we really don’t have a single script repository which is maintained by the community the way that NVDA does and, as Richard very correctly said, Freedom Scientific doesn’t maintain one. During the early days of JAWS when scripts were referred to as macros they did offer a small collection of JAWS macros but this went away probably around the time version 3.0 was released. This is, in my opinion, a missed opportunity. It would be the equivalent of Amazon selling Kindles but telling people that they need to find their own books from Joe’s Kindle Books page and other third-party Web sites. The only way to work around this is for the community to come together and organize their own repository of JAWS scripts. I don’t know if a script exists to allow JAWS to speak passwords as they are entered.
Regarding training if you open the Help menu from the JAWS window and then open the Web Resources submenu you’ll find an option called Surfing The Internet which offers interactive training covering how to use JAWS on the Web. There are also links in the Web Resources menu to online training resources and recordings of webinars. While Freedom Scientific lacks resources for scripts they are certainly not lacking when it comes to the amount of training sessions they have offered, many of which go beyond the basics. They also have a Youtube channel offering shorter lessons covering a variety of computer applications. Also, the American Council of the Blind’s ACB Community podcast offers a large collection of webinars conducted by Freedom Scientific with many of them doing a deep dive into specific JAWS features. Look for “ACB Community” wherever you get your podcasts and you’ll likely find it. Not all of the podcast episodes are from FS but there’s a nice assortment of them contained in that list. Brian Hartgen of Hartgen Consultancy, who I mentioned earlier, also sells recordings of previously conducted training classes covering the use of JAWS and a variety of applications. His Microsoft Word tutorial is several years old and so parts of it are a bit outdated but it along with the other tutorials he offers is excellent and he is one of the finest trainers out there. Finally, Cathy Anne Murtha’s Access Technology Institute sells a variety of training textbooks covering the use of JAWS with several applications. Hope that helps.
David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field. Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io
From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Turner
I will try to help with part of your questions.
One resource for Jaws scripts is a site by Doug Lee: https://dlee.org I tis best to always read the specific entry about the script before installing it.
I’m sure others have other sources for scripts, but as far as I know, Freedom Scientific doesn’t maintain a site of available scripts.
I cannot address whether Jaws has better braille support at this stage since NVDA recently added the HID Braille protocol.
I was never a solid NVDA user but the fact that many of the keystrokes are similar and most all are user defineable, that should help in the transition.
I’m not sure of any good training sites. I learned it from asking questions on this list and getting some basic training from my colleagues when I was working at a rehab center teaching braille and adaptive devices and had to use Jaws for all the documentation, client database, etc.
All I can say, is Jaws is massively complex; and sometimes I wonder if all the complexity is necessary.
Good luck,
Richard
My web site; https://www.turner42.com/
From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Lanie Molinar
Hi all. I've been playing with JAWS 2022 for a little while now. I'm a
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Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
NVDA is equal IMHO in some ways far better than JAWS when it
comes with Braille. With JAWS you don't have to worry abouthe
extra dots for indicators etc. With NVDA you get 100 percent pure
Braille like your reading lines on a hardcopy paper. Just my
thoughts. On 6/11/2022 12:48 AM, Lanie Molinar
wrote:
Hi all. I've been playing with JAWS 2022 for a little while now. I'm a
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Can you completely control the computer with NVDA, Braille, and
speech off without touching the computer keyboard? I had the
impression there were fewer commands for NVDA and Braille and that
this was harder or not possible to do. On 6/12/2022 8:00 AM, Lino Morales
wrote:
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Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
Yep. Just use your Braille display's keyboard. On 6/12/2022 3:59 PM, Lanie Molinar
wrote:
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David Goldfield
Lino wrote: > With JAWS you don't have to worry abouthe extra dots for indicators etc. With NVDA you get 100 percent pure Braille like your reading lines on a hardcopy paper.
To be fair the same is true for JAWS. If you disable the status cells and put JAWS into line mode (as opposed to structured mode) you also should get a similar experience.
David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field. Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io
From: jfw-users@groups.io <jfw-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Lino Morales
NVDA is equal IMHO in some ways far better than JAWS when it comes with Braille. With JAWS you don't have to worry abouthe extra dots for indicators etc. With NVDA you get 100 percent pure Braille like your reading lines on a hardcopy paper. Just my thoughts.
On 6/11/2022 12:48 AM, Lanie Molinar wrote:
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