Topics

Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit


Kurt Sweeny
 

Based on the groups shared insights I decided to do some testing using my FT-530. The results were interesting.

 

Testing hypothesis: I should be able to hear one of the higher frequency ~200hz. Even with my ears. Can the 7000 open the tone squelch on the FT-530? And just for interest can the 530 open the tome squelch on the 7000?

 

Setup:

Power out: on 530 .1 watts, on 7000 1 % (~.5 watts )

Load: 530 into rubber duck; 7000 into MFJ 200 watt              dummy load

 

Results:

The FT-530 reproducibly opened the tone squelch on the 7000, 100% good audio, no drop outs. Now comes the interesting part. The 7000 did not open the squelch on the 530 using 100hz tone. At tones above 200hz the 7000 opened the squelch on the 7000, sort of. The tone on the 7000 could be heard but appeared to be intermittently pulsing not constant. When the tone pulsed the squelch would open and a few syllables of test 1,2,3 counting could be heard. The relationship between tone frequency and the 7000 was hard to reproduce.

 

Discussion / Questions

 

Well the tone detection of the 7000 seems to work; not sure if that means anything about the heath of the encoding circuitry . The 7000 was intermittently encoding and could let a few syllables of audio through. I am thinking that the relationship between tone frequency may have been erroneous, that I read into the intermittence.

 

Any thoughts appreciated. Are there parameters somewhere deep in the menus that I should check such as deviation? Is the tone generation on its own board that I might swap? Any individual component that might be suspect that I could swap out?

 

Kurt

KD6LZV

 

 


Paul Hansen
 

It is possible the deviation of the 7000 is set too high. That causes the sub-audible tone to exceed the receiver pass band and the receiver will drop out. Your deviation should be between 4.5 and 4.8Khz with CTCSS turned on. Or, around 4.0 to 4.2 with CTCSS turned off. A test is to see if your 7000 opens the squelch on your 530 with no modulation. Do not talk. If the squelch remains open then it is possible the total deviation is too high. I just checked the service manual. There does not seem to be any adjustment for deviation at all.

 

Thank you,

 

Paul W. Hansen, W6XA

Amateur Radio Service

2134 Carthage Road

Tucker, GA 30084

(864) 222-3539 office

www.amateurradioservice.com

 

 

From: ic7000@groups.io [mailto:ic7000@groups.io] On Behalf Of Kurt Sweeny
Sent: April 18, 2019 15:52
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit

 

Based on the groups shared insights I decided to do some testing using my FT-530. The results were interesting.

 

Testing hypothesis: I should be able to hear one of the higher frequency ~200hz. Even with my ears. Can the 7000 open the tone squelch on the FT-530? And just for interest can the 530 open the tome squelch on the 7000?

 

Setup:

Power out: on 530 .1 watts, on 7000 1 % (~.5 watts )

Load: 530 into rubber duck; 7000 into MFJ 200 watt              dummy load

 

Results:

The FT-530 reproducibly opened the tone squelch on the 7000, 100% good audio, no drop outs. Now comes the interesting part. The 7000 did not open the squelch on the 530 using 100hz tone. At tones above 200hz the 7000 opened the squelch on the 7000, sort of. The tone on the 7000 could be heard but appeared to be intermittently pulsing not constant. When the tone pulsed the squelch would open and a few syllables of test 1,2,3 counting could be heard. The relationship between tone frequency and the 7000 was hard to reproduce.

 

Discussion / Questions

 

Well the tone detection of the 7000 seems to work; not sure if that means anything about the heath of the encoding circuitry . The 7000 was intermittently encoding and could let a few syllables of audio through. I am thinking that the relationship between tone frequency may have been erroneous, that I read into the intermittence.

 

Any thoughts appreciated. Are there parameters somewhere deep in the menus that I should check such as deviation? Is the tone generation on its own board that I might swap? Any individual component that might be suspect that I could swap out?

 

Kurt

KD6LZV

 

 


D C *Mac* Macdonald
 

I have searched both my owner and service manuals for the IC-7000.  I have not yet found any adjustment for transmitted tone level.  I suggest you contact Scott Malcolm at Malcolm Technical Support to see if such an adjustment point actually exists.  The deviation level for that tone should be between 500 and 750 Hz.  If there is no such adjustment, I believe you have an audio amp that follows the tone generator circuitry that is defective.  Professional repair would then probably be mandatory.
 
73 - Mac, K2GKK/5​
(Since 30 Nov 53)​
k2gkk hotmail com​
Oklahoma City, OK​
USAF & FAA, Ret'd​
Icom User a/o '72​
 


From: ic7000@groups.io <ic7000@groups.io> on behalf of Kurt Sweeny <damele@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 14:51
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit
 

Based on the groups shared insights I decided to do some testing using my FT-530. The results were interesting.

 

Testing hypothesis: I should be able to hear one of the higher frequency ~200hz. Even with my ears. Can the 7000 open the tone squelch on the FT-530? And just for interest can the 530 open the tome squelch on the 7000?

 

Setup:

Power out: on 530 .1 watts, on 7000 1 % (~.5 watts )

Load: 530 into rubber duck; 7000 into MFJ 200 watt              dummy load

 

Results:

The FT-530 reproducibly opened the tone squelch on the 7000, 100% good audio, no drop outs. Now comes the interesting part. The 7000 did not open the squelch on the 530 using 100hz tone. At tones above 200hz the 7000 opened the squelch on the 7000, sort of. The tone on the 7000 could be heard but appeared to be intermittently pulsing not constant. When the tone pulsed the squelch would open and a few syllables of test 1,2,3 counting could be heard. The relationship between tone frequency and the 7000 was hard to reproduce.

 

Discussion / Questions

 

Well the tone detection of the 7000 seems to work; not sure if that means anything about the heath of the encoding circuitry . The 7000 was intermittently encoding and could let a few syllables of audio through. I am thinking that the relationship between tone frequency may have been erroneous, that I read into the intermittence.

 

Any thoughts appreciated. Are there parameters somewhere deep in the menus that I should check such as deviation? Is the tone generation on its own board that I might swap? Any individual component that might be suspect that I could swap out?

 

Kurt

KD6LZV

 

 


D C *Mac* Macdonald
 

I certainly concur with the possibility of too high overall deviation as outlined below by Paul Hansen!  Excessive peak deviation can totally eliminate the "carrier" and cause squelch dropout.  The same can happen even without tone access if the transmitting station is weak into the repeater.  

The natural tendency when signals are weak is to talk louder into the microphone.  This is absolutely the worst possible thing to do!
 
73 - Mac, K2GKK/5​
(Since 30 Nov 53)​
k2gkk hotmail com​
Oklahoma City, OK​
USAF & FAA, Ret'd​
Icom User a/o '72​
 


From: ic7000@groups.io <ic7000@groups.io> on behalf of Paul Hansen <pwhansen@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 15:30
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit
 

It is possible the deviation of the 7000 is set too high. That causes the sub-audible tone to exceed the receiver pass band and the receiver will drop out. Your deviation should be between 4.5 and 4.8Khz with CTCSS turned on. Or, around 4.0 to 4.2 with CTCSS turned off. A test is to see if your 7000 opens the squelch on your 530 with no modulation. Do not talk. If the squelch remains open then it is possible the total deviation is too high. I just checked the service manual. There does not seem to be any adjustment for deviation at all.

 

Thank you,

 

Paul W. Hansen, W6XA

Amateur Radio Service

2134 Carthage Road

Tucker, GA 30084

(864) 222-3539 office

www.amateurradioservice.com

 

 

From: ic7000@groups.io [mailto:ic7000@groups.io] On Behalf Of Kurt Sweeny
Sent: April 18, 2019 15:52
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit

 

Based on the groups shared insights I decided to do some testing using my FT-530. The results were interesting.

 

Testing hypothesis: I should be able to hear one of the higher frequency ~200hz. Even with my ears. Can the 7000 open the tone squelch on the FT-530? And just for interest can the 530 open the tome squelch on the 7000?

 

Setup:

Power out: on 530 .1 watts, on 7000 1 % (~.5 watts )

Load: 530 into rubber duck; 7000 into MFJ 200 watt              dummy load

 

Results:

The FT-530 reproducibly opened the tone squelch on the 7000, 100% good audio, no drop outs. Now comes the interesting part. The 7000 did not open the squelch on the 530 using 100hz tone. At tones above 200hz the 7000 opened the squelch on the 7000, sort of. The tone on the 7000 could be heard but appeared to be intermittently pulsing not constant. When the tone pulsed the squelch would open and a few syllables of test 1,2,3 counting could be heard. The relationship between tone frequency and the 7000 was hard to reproduce.

 

Discussion / Questions

 

Well the tone detection of the 7000 seems to work; not sure if that means anything about the heath of the encoding circuitry . The 7000 was intermittently encoding and could let a few syllables of audio through. I am thinking that the relationship between tone frequency may have been erroneous, that I read into the intermittence.

 

Any thoughts appreciated. Are there parameters somewhere deep in the menus that I should check such as deviation? Is the tone generation on its own board that I might swap? Any individual component that might be suspect that I could swap out?

 

Kurt

KD6LZV

 

 


jadief@reagan.com
 

 

"The natural tendency when signals are weak is to talk louder into the microphone.  This is absolutely the worst possible thing to do!"

 

Absolutely correct !!!! Pull the mic away, or speak softer.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: "D C *Mac* Macdonald" <k2gkk@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 4:25pm
To: "ic7000@groups.io" <ic7000@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit

I certainly concur with the possibility of too high overall deviation as outlined below by Paul Hansen!  Excessive peak deviation can totally eliminate the "carrier" and cause squelch dropout.  The same can happen even without tone access if the transmitting station is weak into the repeater.  
 
The natural tendency when signals are weak is to talk louder into the microphone.  This is absolutely the worst possible thing to do!
 
73 - Mac, K2GKK/5​
(Since 30 Nov 53)​
k2gkk hotmail com​
Oklahoma City, OK​
USAF & FAA, Ret'd​
Icom User a/o '72​
 

From: ic7000@groups.io <ic7000@groups.io> on behalf of Paul Hansen <pwhansen@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 15:30
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit
 

It is possible the deviation of the 7000 is set too high. That causes the sub-audible tone to exceed the receiver pass band and the receiver will drop out. Your deviation should be between 4.5 and 4.8Khz with CTCSS turned on. Or, around 4.0 to 4.2 with CTCSS turned off. A test is to see if your 7000 opens the squelch on your 530 with no modulation. Do not talk. If the squelch remains open then it is possible the total deviation is too high. I just checked the service manual. There does not seem to be any adjustment for deviation at all.

 

Thank you,

 

Paul W. Hansen, W6XA

Amateur Radio Service

2134 Carthage Road

Tucker, GA 30084

(864) 222-3539 office

www.amateurradioservice.com

 

 

From: ic7000@groups.io [mailto:ic7000@groups.io] On Behalf Of Kurt Sweeny
Sent: April 18, 2019 15:52
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit

 

Based on the groups shared insights I decided to do some testing using my FT-530. The results were interesting.

 

Testing hypothesis: I should be able to hear one of the higher frequency ~200hz. Even with my ears. Can the 7000 open the tone squelch on the FT-530? And just for interest can the 530 open the tome squelch on the 7000?

 

Setup:

Power out: on 530 .1 watts, on 7000 1 % (~.5 watts )

Load: 530 into rubber duck; 7000 into MFJ 200 watt              dummy load

 

Results:

The FT-530 reproducibly opened the tone squelch on the 7000, 100% good audio, no drop outs. Now comes the interesting part. The 7000 did not open the squelch on the 530 using 100hz tone. At tones above 200hz the 7000 opened the squelch on the 7000, sort of. The tone on the 7000 could be heard but appeared to be intermittently pulsing not constant. When the tone pulsed the squelch would open and a few syllables of test 1,2,3 counting could be heard. The relationship between tone frequency and the 7000 was hard to reproduce.

 

Discussion / Questions

 

Well the tone detection of the 7000 seems to work; not sure if that means anything about the heath of the encoding circuitry . The 7000 was intermittently encoding and could let a few syllables of audio through. I am thinking that the relationship between tone frequency may have been erroneous, that I read into the intermittence.

 

Any thoughts appreciated. Are there parameters somewhere deep in the menus that I should check such as deviation? Is the tone generation on its own board that I might swap? Any individual component that might be suspect that I could swap out?

 

Kurt

KD6LZV

 

 

 


Roger Taylor
 

On 18/04/2019 22:25, D C *Mac* Macdonald wrote:
I certainly concur with the possibility of too high overall deviation as outlined below by Paul Hansen! Excessive peak deviation can totally eliminate the "carrier" and cause squelch dropout. The same can happen even without tone access if the transmitting station is weak into the repeater.
The natural tendency when signals are weak is to talk louder into the microphone. This is absolutely the worst possible thing to do!
That's not necessarily true.

If you have a limiter and compressor in the audio path correctly adjusted then the peak deviation will remain constant. .


 

If you have a lot in memory you might not want to do a factory reset as it is possible you have made some setting that is causing problems.
Hold band up and down in while powering up. - Hard reset.


Howard Jones
 

Hi, We recently installed a Motorola SRA5000 vhf base station at one of our sites to find that we were suffering severe clipping of audio with certain ham transceivers. In particular several IC9100s were causing problems plus a few other hand helds and mobiles. On investigation we found that some mobiles were deviating up to 6 khz and more, one even up to 8kHZ.. 
As already mentioned deviation should be set to 500 Hz for the CTCSS max and 4.8 KHz total with speech and CTCSS. If you have an SDR radio you should be able to see the deviation, of course a proper service monitor or spectrum analyser is ideal.
Backing off the deviation and setting the TX tone control to reduce the base response by 3dB allowed the radios to work ok.
It also seems some repeater base stations do not have a very good hi pass filter before the ctcss decoder and this can also cause the audio clipping problem as the speech gets down into the ctcss.
Hope this helps, regards Howard VK3QA

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 8:54 AM J.D. Barron <jeter.d.barron@...> wrote:
If you have a lot in memory you might not want to do a factory reset as it is possible you have made some setting that is causing problems.
Hold band up and down in while powering up. - Hard reset.



--
Regards

Howard Jones



Howard Jones
 

Sorry read Motorola SLR5000 Base station.!


On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 11:39 AM Howard Jones via Groups.Io <howardjones155=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi, We recently installed a Motorola SRA5000 vhf base station at one of our sites to find that we were suffering severe clipping of audio with certain ham transceivers. In particular several IC9100s were causing problems plus a few other hand helds and mobiles. On investigation we found that some mobiles were deviating up to 6 khz and more, one even up to 8kHZ.. 
As already mentioned deviation should be set to 500 Hz for the CTCSS max and 4.8 KHz total with speech and CTCSS. If you have an SDR radio you should be able to see the deviation, of course a proper service monitor or spectrum analyser is ideal.
Backing off the deviation and setting the TX tone control to reduce the base response by 3dB allowed the radios to work ok.
It also seems some repeater base stations do not have a very good hi pass filter before the ctcss decoder and this can also cause the audio clipping problem as the speech gets down into the ctcss.
Hope this helps, regards Howard VK3QA

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 8:54 AM J.D. Barron <jeter.d.barron@...> wrote:
If you have a lot in memory you might not want to do a factory reset as it is possible you have made some setting that is causing problems.
Hold band up and down in while powering up. - Hard reset.



--
Regards

Howard Jones




--
Regards

Howard Jones



 

Wide FM is to receive FM broadcast and should not be used for amateur communications, repeaters included.
NBFM is normal I think


D C *Mac* Macdonald
 

Wide is normal almost everywhere.  This is what is referred to as 5 kHz deviation with 15 kHz channel spacing.  The NBFM mode is half or less than that.

15 kHz channel spacing is used in many locations, 20 kHz separation is used mainly on the west coast and also in Texas if I recall.  Look in the ARRL Repeater Guides to see which is used where.
 
73 de Mac, K2GKK/5​
Since 30 Nov 1953​
Oklahoma City, OK​
USAF, Retired ('61-'81)​
FAA, Retired ('94-'10)


From: ic7000@groups.io <ic7000@groups.io> on behalf of J.D. Barron <jeter.d.barron@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 20:53
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit
 
Wide FM is to receive FM broadcast and should not be used for amateur communications, repeaters included.
NBFM is normal I think


Warren Allgyer <allgyer@...>
 

Mac you and JD are talking apples and oranges and you are both correct. The WFM mode is for 75kHz deviation used for broadcast. 

Within the ham bands there is WBFM which is 5 kHz deviation and NBFM which is as you say, half of that. The 7000 is capable of receiving all three and transmitting the last two. 

WA8TOD 
Warren


On Apr 19, 2019, at 10:09 AM, D C *Mac* Macdonald <k2gkk@...> wrote:

Wide is normal almost everywhere.  This is what is referred to as 5 kHz deviation with 15 kHz channel spacing.  The NBFM mode is half or less than that.

15 kHz channel spacing is used in many locations, 20 kHz separation is used mainly on the west coast and also in Texas if I recall.  Look in the ARRL Repeater Guides to see which is used where.
 
73 de Mac, K2GKK/5​
Since 30 Nov 1953​
Oklahoma City, OK​
USAF, Retired ('61-'81)​
FAA, Retired ('94-'10)


From: ic7000@groups.io <ic7000@groups.io> on behalf of J.D. Barron <jeter.d.barron@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 20:53
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit
 
Wide FM is to receive FM broadcast and should not be used for amateur communications, repeaters included.
NBFM is normal I think


Van
 

If it has been mentioned, I did not see it.

Is the repeater a Analog or Digital Repeater?

If Digital, the IC7000 will not access it as is a Analog FM Radio.

 

73

Van

WD6FGB

 

From: ic7000@groups.io [mailto:ic7000@groups.io] On Behalf Of D C *Mac* Macdonald
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 7:10 PM
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit

 

Wide is normal almost everywhere.  This is what is referred to as 5 kHz deviation with 15 kHz channel spacing.  The NBFM mode is half or less than that.

 

15 kHz channel spacing is used in many locations, 20 kHz separation is used mainly on the west coast and also in Texas if I recall.  Look in the ARRL Repeater Guides to see which is used where.

 

73 de Mac, K2GKK/5

Since 30 Nov 1953

Oklahoma City, OK

USAF, Retired ('61-'81)

FAA, Retired ('94-'10)

 


From: ic7000@groups.io <ic7000@groups.io> on behalf of J.D. Barron <jeter.d.barron@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 20:53
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit

 

Wide FM is to receive FM broadcast and should not be used for amateur communications, repeaters included.
NBFM is normal I think


D C *Mac* Macdonald
 

Heh, heh!  Yep, but an IC-7000 is an awfully expensive FM broadcast receiver!  😉  I never use the 7000 for 2m/70cm.  That's what my 2710, 2720, and 2730 are for!

It's going to be interesting to learn what the guy's REAL problem is!
 
73 de Mac, K2GKK/5​
Since 30 Nov 1953​
Oklahoma City, OK​
USAF, Retired ('61-'81)​
FAA, Retired ('94-'10)


From: ic7000@groups.io <ic7000@groups.io> on behalf of Warren Allgyer <allgyer@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 21:55
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit
 
Mac you and JD are talking apples and oranges and you are both correct. The WFM mode is for 75kHz deviation used for broadcast.

Within the ham bands there is WBFM which is 5 kHz deviation and NBFM which is as you say, half of that. The 7000 is capable of receiving all three and transmitting the last two.

WA8TOD
Warren


Van
 

 

 

From: VAN van Bergen [mailto:wd6fgb@...]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 5:59 AM
To: 'ic7000@groups.io'
Subject: RE: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit

 

If it has been mentioned, I did not see it.

Is the repeater a Analog or Digital Repeater?

If Digital, the IC7000 will not access it as is a Analog FM Radio.

 

73

Van

WD6FGB

 

From: ic7000@groups.io [mailto:ic7000@groups.io] On Behalf Of D C *Mac* Macdonald
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 7:10 PM
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit

 

Wide is normal almost everywhere.  This is what is referred to as 5 kHz deviation with 15 kHz channel spacing.  The NBFM mode is half or less than that.

 

15 kHz channel spacing is used in many locations, 20 kHz separation is used mainly on the west coast and also in Texas if I recall.  Look in the ARRL Repeater Guides to see which is used where.

 

73 de Mac, K2GKK/5

Since 30 Nov 1953

Oklahoma City, OK

USAF, Retired ('61-'81)

FAA, Retired ('94-'10)

 


From: ic7000@groups.io <ic7000@groups.io> on behalf of J.D. Barron <jeter.d.barron@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 20:53
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit

 

Wide FM is to receive FM broadcast and should not be used for amateur communications, repeaters included.
NBFM is normal I think


Kurt Sweeny
 

Hi Dan,

 

The machine is analog.

 

Kurt

 

From: ic7000@groups.io <ic7000@groups.io> On Behalf Of Van
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 5:59 AM
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit

 

If it has been mentioned, I did not see it.

Is the repeater a Analog or Digital Repeater?

If Digital, the IC7000 will not access it as is a Analog FM Radio.

 

73

Van

WD6FGB

 

From: ic7000@groups.io [mailto:ic7000@groups.io] On Behalf Of D C *Mac* Macdonald
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 7:10 PM
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit

 

Wide is normal almost everywhere.  This is what is referred to as 5 kHz deviation with 15 kHz channel spacing.  The NBFM mode is half or less than that.

 

15 kHz channel spacing is used in many locations, 20 kHz separation is used mainly on the west coast and also in Texas if I recall.  Look in the ARRL Repeater Guides to see which is used where.

 

73 de Mac, K2GKK/5

Since 30 Nov 1953

Oklahoma City, OK

USAF, Retired ('61-'81)

FAA, Retired ('94-'10)

 


From: ic7000@groups.io <ic7000@groups.io> on behalf of J.D. Barron <jeter.d.barron@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 20:53
To: ic7000@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ic7000] Test Results IC-7000 2 Meter Rpt Problem Transmit

 

Wide FM is to receive FM broadcast and should not be used for amateur communications, repeaters included.
NBFM is normal I think