[IC-7000] Re: New IC7000 owner .


Robert Blackburn
 

REALLY, 8 AWG WIRE IF OVER 4'?
Maybe if your trying a 40' separation of radio from battery! I use the standard supplied cables and a MFJ-4416 booster and it gives my IC-7k
13.8 VDC until the battery drops to 
10 volts.
73
KC5IAJ 


On Sep 9, 2017, at 2:29 AM, blaze_1024@... [ic7000] <ic7000@...> wrote:

 

I agree the IC7000 is no more sensitive to voltage than any other radio I've tested. If you're having problems then it's most likely in your power wiring.

 By the way, Icom got screwed by a vendor who provided substandard fuse holders. Quite often simply cleaning the fuses will fix the problem temporarily.

The real solution is to replace the fuse holders. Also If your cable run is more than 4 feet I usually recommend running four 8 AWG power wires. Two for the positive and two for negative lead. I splice them down at the fuse holder pigtails which I replaced with ATM fuses.

The other thing to watch out for is cheap Chinese fuses. Make sure you are using true high quality ATC fuses. many Chinese manufacturers label ATO fuses as ATC. Even Bussman is starting to ship cheap Chinese fuses under their brand name so be careful  You're better off sticking with good fuses from reputable vendors such as NTE,  In a pinch, you can find really high-quality fuses at a good Marine chandlery but expect to pay more.

I use my IC7000 portable all the time and have no problem maintaining 100 watts output off a 100 amp hour AGM battery.. I usually get two good day's calling CQ off a 100 amp hour AGM battery

On my last camping trip, I logged over 350 phone contacts in two days off a 100 amp hour AGM battery on a single charge. Towards the end of the second day, I was still managing 90-95 watts.

Of course, my camping setup has taken IR2 squared losses into account in the design. Since the IC7000 has a remote head I've built special battery boxes which house the battery in one compartment and the radio body mounted in a custom built quick release bracket in the second compartment. 


 The power leads are 8awg and are just 15 inches long. The battery feeds several large capacitors which prevent voltage drops on voice peaks. I have two such battery boxes. I also have a small generator and a 40 amp 3 stage marine battery charger to charge one of the battery boxes while I operate off the second one.

The battery charger will recharge an 80 percent depleted 100 amp hour AGM battery in about 2.5 - 3  hours so basically, I can operate for 4 days before I need to charge a battery. In practice, if I plan on being active on battery power for more than two days I will only take the batteries down to about 50 percent before swapping and charging. 

 The batteries weigh close to 70 pounds each so the battery boxes are self-powered with large electric motor driven wheels and an old electric RC car remote control. I used to fly remote control helicopters so this was a fun easy project to build. I'm lazy and have back problems as such I have no intention of man handling 70-pound batteries. I'm thinking about adding telemetry and a camera to the boxes so I can drive them back to the truck or charging location from the operating position. The motors are very strong and easily able to climb motorcycle ramps into the back of my truck. 

 Since I've built the original battery boxes I've acquired two more identical 100 amp hour AGM's. So I'm thinking about building new boxes to accommodate two batteries each. I've also acquired a second 40 amp charger so I might mount them permanently to the battery boxes. 

 The chargers I use are the original Statpower Trucharge 40's. these were made for Statpower by Astron,  they are Astron SBC-40's, I also have two Astron SBC20's and two of their 10 amp chargers. If you can find one of of the Statpoower 10 amp chargers similar to the SBC10s grab it they are excellent and worth every penny they are super quiet and produce almost zero RFI. Statpower has since been bought by Xantrex and their new chargers are built in China and are the very epitome of junk.  

 I've discovered it's much easier to operate the IC700 from a picnic bench when the remote head is removed from the body. I have several styles of cell phone car mounts which I use to mount the IC7000 remote head. My favorite has a very large spring clamp on the bottom and a flexible gooseneck which allows me to angle the remote head for easy access.  I used to build aquariums so I have skills with plexiglass fabrication So I have also built several stands for the remote head which incorporates a speaker and a remote 7-inch display along with the IC7000 remote head angled to be easily seen while sitting on a table, there's also a detachable sun shield. At some point, if there's enough interest I might start offering these for sale.

The bottom line is if you are operating on battery power keep the battery leads as short as possible and use the largest wire and best fuses and fuse holders you can find.

Of course, the other option is to use a 24 volt DC to DC converter to provide a stable 13,8 volts, the problem here is that I haven't found a single DC to Dc converter or for that matter switching power supply that didn't produce RFI.

Now you might not notice this RFI at your home QTH considering that most residential areas don't have a low enough ambient RF noise floor to see it. For you appliance operators what this means, if you have a constant S5 noise floor you'll never see the S3 RF hash from your inverter, DC to DC converter or switching power supply. That all changes the moment you go camping someplace with a low noise floor.  
 


Steve W3AHL
 

Two separate issues!  Whether #8 wire is better for a 4' run depends on how critical dynamic voltage regulation is to the user and what the termination resistances are compared to smaller lugs, connectors, etc.  But for a 16' run from the battery to the trunk, one pair of #8 stranded copper with a 22 amp load will drop 598 millivolts, plus additional drops in crimps, connections, fuses, etc.  #10 wire will drop 760mv.

But using a voltage booster to keep the battery output voltage at 13.8 VDC  does NOT correct the inherent IR drop in the Icom DC cable's fuse holders.  I've seen many set's of fuse holders that developed 1.8 - 2 volts of voltage drop just across the fuse holders using a 20 amp load bank.  While most of the electronics in the 7K are powered by internal voltage regulators, the Driver and PA FET's are powered directly from the 14V bus.  

You may be able to get 90 watts TX power out of the HF PA at 13.8-2.0 = 11.8 VDC.  But the non-linearity of the Class A Driver FET and the Class AB PA FET's with the power dropping by 2 volts on voice peaks should be unacceptable to all hams.  

Using a voltage booster still requires fixing the DC cable voltage drop from the booster output to the radio input to be less than 500 millivolts maximum in my opinion.  Would you by an AC power supply whose specified voltage regulation at its output terminals was +/- 15%.  I would hope not.  Why settle for that regulation inside the radio?

My preferred solution is to use an auxiliary battery at the radio (30 AH), so the engine battery only supplies a small portion of the peak current and charges the auxiliary battery.  The 30AH battery is enough to allow lower power portable operation if needed, away from the car.

Steve, W3AHL


---In ic7000@..., <kc5iaj.extra@...> wrote :

REALLY, 8 AWG WIRE IF OVER 4'?
Maybe if your trying a 40' separation of radio from battery! I use the standard supplied cables and a MFJ-4416 booster and it gives my IC-7k
13.8 VDC until the battery drops to 
10 volts.
73
KC5IAJ 


On Sep 9, 2017, at 2:29 AM, blaze_1024@... [ic7000] <ic7000@...> wrote:

 

I agree the IC7000 is no more sensitive to voltage than any other radio I've tested. If you're having problems then it's most likely in your power wiring.

 By the way, Icom got screwed by a vendor who provided substandard fuse holders. Quite often simply cleaning the fuses will fix the problem temporarily.

The real solution is to replace the fuse holders. Also If your cable run is more than 4 feet I usually recommend running four 8 AWG power wires. Two for the positive and two for negative lead. I splice them down at the fuse holder pigtails which I replaced with ATM fuses.
..snip.. 

 

 


Mark Schoonover
 

This has been an interesting thread to read. My experiences are totally different though. When my vehicle is running, the voltage at the battery is 14.2 VDC. When the engine isn't running, it's 12.1. In my installs, I ran about 7' of 10GA wire using regular AUE 40 amp fuses used in high powered car audio installations. Under load - which meant full power out on the 7K, full power out on the 2710h, the voltage never dropped below 14 VDC at the rigs. Never had an issue with the 7K. I did have a starter issue where the best path back to the battery was this cable and the fuse on the ground lead popped. I didn't wait long enough trying to replace it and burned my fingers. :)

On the Dodge 2500 Diesel install: https://www.ka6wke.net/2004-dodge-2500-diesel-2004 the 500 watt amp used 9 feet of 8 GA wire to the battery with the AUE 75A fuses. Never had an issue running full power out with the amp. The OEM alternator was 160A (IIRC). 

Anyway, when the engine is running, the battery is no longer in play. All the power is supplied by the alternator. You can disconnect the battery on a running engine and everything will operate just fine. The only reason why you'd need a voltage booster is when the engine isn't running. I single run of 10GA wire directly connected and NOT using those &%#)# blade fuses that come with the OEM power cable is sufficient to power the 7K w/o issue.

These days, I wouldn't install a separate battery in the trunk. I would purchase a "stiffening" capacitor like these: 


Install it as close to the rig as possible. Much smaller than a battery and no maintenance. Even a secondary battery in the trunk won't be used while the engine is running.

Anyway, my $0.04 adjusted for inflation.

On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 6:15 PM, w3ahl@... [ic7000] <ic7000@...> wrote:
 

Two separate issues!  Whether #8 wire is better for a 4' run depends on how critical dynamic voltage regulation is to the user and what the termination resistances are compared to smaller lugs, connectors, etc.  But for a 16' run from the battery to the trunk, one pair of #8 stranded copper with a 22 amp load will drop 598 millivolts, plus additional drops in crimps, connections, fuses, etc.  #10 wire will drop 760mv.


But using a voltage booster to keep the battery output voltage at 13.8 VDC  does NOT correct the inherent IR drop in the Icom DC cable's fuse holders.  I've seen many set's of fuse holders that developed 1.8 - 2 volts of voltage drop just across the fuse holders using a 20 amp load bank.  While most of the electronics in the 7K are powered by internal voltage regulators, the Driver and PA FET's are powered directly from the 14V bus.  

You may be able to get 90 watts TX power out of the HF PA at 13.8-2.0 = 11.8 VDC.  But the non-linearity of the Class A Driver FET and the Class AB PA FET's with the power dropping by 2 volts on voice peaks should be unacceptable to all hams.  

Using a voltage booster still requires fixing the DC cable voltage drop from the booster output to the radio input to be less than 500 millivolts maximum in my opinion.  Would you by an AC power supply whose specified voltage regulation at its output terminals was +/- 15%.  I would hope not.  Why settle for that regulation inside the radio?

My preferred solution is to use an auxiliary battery at the radio (30 AH), so the engine battery only supplies a small portion of the peak current and charges the auxiliary battery.  The 30AH battery is enough to allow lower power portable operation if needed, away from the car.

Steve, W3AHL


---In ic7000@..., wrote :

REALLY, 8 AWG WIRE IF OVER 4'?
Maybe if your trying a 40' separation of radio from battery! I use the standard supplied cables and a MFJ-4416 booster and it gives my IC-7k
13.8 VDC until the battery drops to 
10 volts.
73
KC5IAJ 


On Sep 9, 2017, at 2:29 AM, blaze_1024@... [ic7000] <ic7000@...> wrote:

 

I agree the IC7000 is no more sensitive to voltage than any other radio I've tested. If you're having problems then it's most likely in your power wiring.

 By the way, Icom got screwed by a vendor who provided substandard fuse holders. Quite often simply cleaning the fuses will fix the problem temporarily.

The real solution is to replace the fuse holders. Also If your cable run is more than 4 feet I usually recommend running four 8 AWG power wires. Two for the positive and two for negative lead. I splice them down at the fuse holder pigtails which I replaced with ATM fuses.
..snip..