PL tone missing from Data port


kf3ak@...
 

Hello all.  I am new to the group and have an issue with my IC-7000.  Specifically, I cannot find a way to route the TX PL tone through the 6-pin mini-DIN Data port in FM mode (I've tried TONE and TSQL with no joy).  

Why do I care?  Our local emcomm group practices sending digital messages through the local VHF-FM repeater.  The repeater requires a PL tone to retransmit/repeat.  Without the PL tone, I have nothing to offer but dead air.

It has been suggested that I use the 13-pin ACC port instead of the mini-DIN.  I don't have the cable to connect that port to my SignaLink; before I buy the cable, I'd like to know that it will pass the PL tone.  Further, the ACC port presents another issue ("hot mic") that I would like to avoid.

To cut to the chase:
1. Does anyone know how to get the 7000 Data port to pass the TX PL tone in FM mode?  
2. If the Data port is a no-go, does the ACC port pass the TX PL tone?

TNX,
Tony KF3AK


r norris
 

PL (generated in the 7000) is sent out with your transmitted signal to open the repeater receiver.

I can’t think of any need to route it through a Signalink.

Computer keys the Signalink that keys the 7000. 7000 sends PL (subduable tone).

Try setting the tone and open the repeater, with just the radio.

On Nov 29, 2021, at 08:47, kf3ak@... wrote:

Hello all.  I am new to the group and have an issue with my IC-7000.  Specifically, I cannot find a way to route the TX PL tone through the 6-pin mini-DIN Data port in FM mode (I've tried TONE and TSQL with no joy).  

Why do I care?  Our local emcomm group practices sending digital messages through the local VHF-FM repeater.  The repeater requires a PL tone to retransmit/repeat.  Without the PL tone, I have nothing to offer but dead air.

It has been suggested that I use the 13-pin ACC port instead of the mini-DIN.  I don't have the cable to connect that port to my SignaLink; before I buy the cable, I'd like to know that it will pass the PL tone.  Further, the ACC port presents another issue ("hot mic") that I would like to avoid.

To cut to the chase:
1. Does anyone know how to get the 7000 Data port to pass the TX PL tone in FM mode?  
2. If the Data port is a no-go, does the ACC port pass the TX PL tone?

TNX,
Tony KF3AK


Mark Brueggemann
 

Our local emcomm group practices sending digital messages through the local VHF-FM repeater.
That means you're not using 9600 baud data, probably AFSK packet or other soundcard data mode.   So that translates you're not bound to using a data port.  If you go in through the mic jack you should be able to encode a PL tone.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM


kf3ak@...
 

o R Norris:

Thanks for your response.  I have not made clear the need for the SignaLink.  When sending a digital message through the 6-pin data port, the modulation audio and PTT are generated in the SignaLink.  Thus, the PL must be included in that transmission to activate the repeater.

The mic path works FB, as it routes the PL tone with voice audio.

73,
Tony KF3AK


kf3ak@...
 

To Mark K5LXP:

Thanks for your response.  Your approach of connecting to the mic input will work, but means that I would have to build or buy the interface (I sold my Rig Blaster years ago).  

I have used the 7000/9600/SignaLink combo with excellent results on VARA FM and Winlink, but the combo doesn't work through the repeater without the PL. You have convinced me that the 7000 won't do what I want without additional, significant expense.

73,
Tony KF3AK


Robert Blackburn
 

You guys are confused, the audio from your computer doesn’t have anything to do with the PL tone. The PL tone is generated in the radio, the FM channel used for the repeater must be preprogrammed with the PL tone.
Regardless of what device you use, ie
Signalink Rig Blaster all they do is pass the computer audio to the radio and key up the radio.
KC5IAJ 

On Dec 1, 2021, at 08:26, kf3ak@... wrote:

To Mark K5LXP:

Thanks for your response.  Your approach of connecting to the mic input will work, but means that I would have to build or buy the interface (I sold my Rig Blaster years ago).  

I have used the 7000/9600/SignaLink combo with excellent results on VARA FM and Winlink, but the combo doesn't work through the repeater without the PL. You have convinced me that the 7000 won't do what I want without additional, significant expense.

73,
Tony KF3AK


Robert Blackburn
 

Tony, apparently you’ve been used to using 
HF and simplex FM for point to point traffic, which no PL is required, but when using a FM repeater a PL tone is required for voice or digital traffic.
Now days ,and for a long time, all programmable radio’s have the capability to have the PL programmed into each FM channel. I hope you get your problem solved.

73,


On Dec 1, 2021, at 09:00, Robert Blackburn via groups.io <kc5iaj.extra@...> wrote:

You guys are confused, the audio from your computer doesn’t have anything to do with the PL tone. The PL tone is generated in the radio, the FM channel used for the repeater must be preprogrammed with the PL tone.
Regardless of what device you use, ie
Signalink Rig Blaster all they do is pass the computer audio to the radio and key up the radio.
KC5IAJ 

On Dec 1, 2021, at 08:26, kf3ak@... wrote:

To Mark K5LXP:

Thanks for your response.  Your approach of connecting to the mic input will work, but means that I would have to build or buy the interface (I sold my Rig Blaster years ago).  

I have used the 7000/9600/SignaLink combo with excellent results on VARA FM and Winlink, but the combo doesn't work through the repeater without the PL. You have convinced me that the 7000 won't do what I want without additional, significant expense.

73,
Tony KF3AK


r norris
 






To Mark K5LXP:

Thanks for your response.  Your approach of connecting to the mic input will work, but means that I would have to build or buy the interface (I sold my Rig Blaster years ago).  

I have used the 7000/9600/SignaLink combo with excellent results on VARA FM and Winlink, but the combo doesn't work through the repeater without the PL. You have convinced me that the 7000 won't do what I want without additional, significant expense.

73,
Tony KF3AK
_._,_._,_


What I said in my first post and other have said, PL IS GENERATED IN THE RADIO…..

No matter what you use to generate audio and key the radio, PL is generated in the last item in your signal chain, the radio.

If you want significant expense, go to Walmart and buy a doorbell button for $5 and key the radio and open the repeater.

Is the SignaLink on the correct pin for HF or VHF ? See page 12 of the 7000 book.

Pin 3 or 7 on ACC or pin 3 of the data socket.




kf3ak@...
 

Guys,

Thank you for your responses.

The basic question is: Why do the PL tones not appear in the transmitted FM signal along with the modulation created by the SignaLink?  

We are all agreed that the PL tones are generated in the 7000, not in the Signalink or elsewhere.

No one has shown how the PL can be injected into the transmitted signal without additional hardware.

My conclusion is that the absence of the PL is a design flaw in the IC-7000.  I have observed the expected response from my IC-208 dual band rig, so Icom knows how to do it but overlooked it in the 7000. I'll just have to live with it...bummer.

Thanks again and 73,
Tony KF3AK


Don Rolph
 

Ok, I have been staying out of the discussion but ...

I use an echolink connection through my IC-7000 as one of my echolink deployments.

The transmission audio is sent through the 6 pin mini-din.

I am using the 1200 baud audio connections.

My IC-7000 sends the PL tone and properly triggers the repeater and the tone is produced by the IC-7000.

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 12:16 PM <kf3ak@...> wrote:
Guys,

Thank you for your responses.

The basic question is: Why do the PL tones not appear in the transmitted FM signal along with the modulation created by the SignaLink?  

We are all agreed that the PL tones are generated in the 7000, not in the Signalink or elsewhere.

No one has shown how the PL can be injected into the transmitted signal without additional hardware.

My conclusion is that the absence of the PL is a design flaw in the IC-7000.  I have observed the expected response from my IC-208 dual band rig, so Icom knows how to do it but overlooked it in the 7000. I'll just have to live with it...bummer.

Thanks again and 73,
Tony KF3AK



--

73,
AB1PH
Don Rolph


Joe
 

On 12/6/2021 12:16 PM, kf3ak@... wrote:
My conclusion is that the absence of the PL is a design flaw in the IC-7000.
I don't know if it was a design flaw or just engineering for digital communication.

The connector that you are using on the back of the radio is typically not used for repeater operation. They may have chosen to insert the audio for digital communications in a different spot of the transmit audio path then the microphone takes. PL tone requires low frequencies to pass thru to the modulator. Icom may have chosen to pick a spot to inject the digital audio in place in the audio path that does not have the same frequency response requirements.

Joe


kf3ak@...
 

Don,

Thanks for your response.  You have touched on something (1200) that I haven't tried.  My SignaLink is jumpered for 9600 for high speed VARA FM.  I will try 1200, but it may take a while, as the SL is lashed down in my Go kit.

I'll let you know what happens..

Thanks and 73,
Tony


Don Rolph
 

Good luck.

Remember, 1200 baud flows through the standard audio.  9600 goes straight to the modulator.

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 3:28 PM <kf3ak@...> wrote:
Don,

Thanks for your response.  You have touched on something (1200) that I haven't tried.  My SignaLink is jumpered for 9600 for high speed VARA FM.  I will try 1200, but it may take a while, as the SL is lashed down in my Go kit.

I'll let you know what happens..

Thanks and 73,
Tony



--

73,
AB1PH
Don Rolph


Charles & Sandra Cohen <cpcohen1945@...>
 

FWIW --

A wild, off-the-wall guess:

. . . Is it possible that the CTCSS tone is generated when the DIN "data" jack is used, 
. . . when the IC-7000 packet baud rate is set to 1200 baud,

. . . but not generated when it's set to 9600 baud ?

See pg 116 of the manual.

It's easy enough to try out . . . 

I don't see anything in the manual that suggests that "CTSS tone generation" is dependent on packet baud rate, which is why I label this "off-the-wall".

.     Charles / va7cpc


kf3ak@...
 

Don AB1PH and Charles VA7CPC,

You are "spot on"...the CTCSS tone is, indeed, injected into the TX path in 1200 mode, but not 9600 mode.  Now I can participate in the aforementioned repeater nets, but have to find another solution for VARA FM WIDE, which wants 9600.

I'll back off my "design flaw" designation and call it a "design oversight" (or what Microsoft would call an "unadvertised feature").

Thanks to all who participated in my quest.

73 and closing down,
Tony KF3AK


Mark Brueggemann
 

 I'll back off my "design flaw" designation and call it a "design oversight" 
Neither, you wouldn't want a tone superimposed on a high speed data stream.  With 1200 baud data the tones are well above subaudible, so not an issue.  Another consideration is few (any?) voice repeaters would successfully repeat 9600 baud FM data so there'd be little point in ensuring there'd be CTCSS or DCS for that mode.  But that's a great point to know about the 7000, I would've figured PL wouldn't have been on either of the data ports.  Makes me wonder how my other radios handle this.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM