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Re: IC7000 No power on, no relay click

Luc
 

Good evening to all..

finely i found the reason for no turning on of my 7000

R723 was broken..i measure 14v on the fuse site and only abbt 3v on the other side of the R.

so to low voltage on the regulator in the logic board...and no activation of q700 to pull the relais and give the HV line onn

Buth!!! the R has a value of 4.3ohm wen i measere him...silly!!

desolder him and he broke in 2 parts...so replaced bij a "ordinary" R and the 7000 is lighting and rx...

greeting


Re: LO off QRG

igor-m
 

Steve, when you change the tuning voltage wired to the VCTCXO the TX frequency (measured with a counter at the dummy load) has to change too, imho. The 7000's firmware or hardware has not got any internal means how to determine "how much the frequency of the xtal has changed by applying certain voltage difference". There is none internal reference except the master VCTCXO oscillator.
Thus, when your external counter show 21.000.000 at the TX dummy load with "5F" hex, and you change it to "2C" you must see a change of the TX frequency after returning from the manufacturing menu. The important assumption is there is the "VC" TXCO module soldered on the board, the DAC works and the firmware has not got a bug as well.
Would be great if we will come to an understanding "how the stuff works", as this is a topic people here discussing for a decade already :)


Re: LO off QRG

Steve W3AHL
 

Igor,

There is much that goes on in the firmware that makes it hard to predict how the hardware will work.  But the behavior you see is normal.  Setting the REF frequency accurately will either solve your problem or tell you there is a problem with the oscillator or the control voltage from the CPU.

Your unit's hex value for REF of 9B is higher than typical in the four radios I have recorded the values for ((typically 55-76), but accurate measurement is the only way to set the frequency so that the IF stages work corrrectly.

Steve, W3AHL


Re: LO off QRG

igor-m
 

On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 09:52 PM, Steve W3AHL wrote:

..
In Maintenance mode, adjusting the REF setting from 0-FF changes the 124.032 MHz 2LO by 1300 Hz, but does not affect the TX frequency when returned to normal mode -- just as you saw.
I don't have an explanation for why it behaves that way.  ..

I've asked Icom Europe on this (a week back), none answer yet.
My gut feeling tells me the change of the maintenance mode REF setting from 0-FF must change the TX frequency in AM CW RTTY modes, provided you do not touch the OTH #51.
If the the maintenance mode REF setting from 0-FF "really changes the control voltage of the VCTCXO" then your TX frequency must change accordingly.
No way it stays the same after the return to the normal mode..
Igor


Re: LO off QRG

igor-m
 

@Steve and Helmut: thanks for the hints.
I started to doubt that I can see a change of the TX freq (while changing the hidden adjust hex value) after I had a look in the service manual - the "frequency scheme" picture there.
It could be the changing of the voltage (while changing the maintenance REF OSC hex value) changes the oscillator's frequency actually, but the TX frequency stays unaffected because the change "somehow cancels out" within the frequency scheme. It is not easy to formalize the change from that picture, though.
Hopefully, the setting the master frequency as described in the service manual will help with the aged crystal..
Igor


Re: LO off QRG

Helmut Wabnig
 

On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 12:52:18 -0800, you wrote:

Using my calibrated Agilent 8924C analyzer I see OTH #51 vary by 1330 Hz from 0-100% when measuring the 124.032 MHz 2LO signal at P4.  When transmitting on CW or AM at 20 MHz it varies 215 HZ from 0-100%.

In Maintenance mode, adjusting the REF setting from 0-FF changes the 124.032 MHz 2LO by 1300 Hz, but does not affect the TX frequency when returned to normal mode -- just as you saw.

I don't have an explanation for why it behaves that way.  But if you have accurate frequency measurement equipment and follow the adjustment procedures, you should have adequate adjustment range in menu #51 to calibrate your TX/RX signal at UHF and below.  You should verify that your DDS REF 2LO is at exactly 124.032 MHz.  Then perhaps verify your RX frequency in normal mode by zero beating to a commercial transmitter at the highest frequency possible.

It is possible for the X1 VCTCXO reference oscillator to drift with age, but that would only be suspect if can't adjust the 2LO REF signal to 124.032 MHz in Maintenance mode.

Steve, W3AHL
I once had a 700 with exactly this problem.
Cannot calibrate down, reaches 100 % in menu 51.

What I found is the analog control voltage to the oscillator chip VFO
was off and not in spec. Voltage coming from the CPU box.
The oscillator is at the lower side of the pcb, which made me angry.
:-)
Sold the radio as "defect".

If you have a chance to borrow another 7000,
swap the CPU box to find out what happens.

OE8UWW


Re: LO off QRG

Steve W3AHL
 

Using my calibrated Agilent 8924C analyzer I see OTH #51 vary by 1330 Hz from 0-100% when measuring the 124.032 MHz 2LO signal at P4.  When transmitting on CW or AM at 20 MHz it varies 215 HZ from 0-100%.

In Maintenance mode, adjusting the REF setting from 0-FF changes the 124.032 MHz 2LO by 1300 Hz, but does not affect the TX frequency when returned to normal mode -- just as you saw.

I don't have an explanation for why it behaves that way.  But if you have accurate frequency measurement equipment and follow the adjustment procedures, you should have adequate adjustment range in menu #51 to calibrate your TX/RX signal at UHF and below.  You should verify that your DDS REF 2LO is at exactly 124.032 MHz.  Then perhaps verify your RX frequency in normal mode by zero beating to a commercial transmitter at the highest frequency possible.

It is possible for the X1 VCTCXO reference oscillator to drift with age, but that would only be suspect if can't adjust the 2LO REF signal to 124.032 MHz in Maintenance mode.  

Steve, W3AHL


Re: LO off QRG

igor-m
 

Corrected: "With the OTH menu #51 I get about 150Hz diff from 0-100% (at 20MHz).


Re: LO off QRG

igor-m
 

Hi, the same issue here. EU version, 13y old 7k.
With the OTH menu #51 I get about 4.5kHz diff from 0-100%.
"Luckily" at the 100% setting it is only 5Hz low (at around 20MHz).
While messing with the REF OSC adjust menu (stock hex 9B here) I see none influence on the TX frequency (and yes, I press SET).
I've been measuring the frequency at a dummy load while TXing in AM or RTTY mode.
I would be happy to know for what is the "hex adjust" menu actually good for.
My current understanding is that while changing the hex value I must see a change in the TX frequency..
Any hint plz?


Re: IC7000 with ACLog

Jeff Freedman
 

Please re-read the question. Slightly different application, where two data ports may be involved.


Re: IC7000 with ACLog

Robie
 

Jeff,

This is discussed in the ACLog documentation:


Robie - AJ4F



On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 9:17 AM Jeff Freedman <jeffk7jf@...> wrote:
Using the 7000 with ACLog. Connected data port on rig to laptop with RigRunner. Works great to capture the frequency. How do I connect the rig to the laptop for ACLog to transmit CW please? Thanks!


IC7000 with ACLog

Jeff Freedman
 

Using the 7000 with ACLog. Connected data port on rig to laptop with RigRunner. Works great to capture the frequency. How do I connect the rig to the laptop for ACLog to transmit CW please? Thanks!


Re: IC7000 No power on, no relay click

Steve W3AHL
 

Good job!  It is important when handling all of the circuit boards to use proper ESD protection.  I notice one picture of the LOGIC board laying on what appears to be a synthetic cloth surface.  Unfiished wood or uncoated cardboard would be better, although an antistatic conductive mat that is grounded through a resistor is preferred, along with a grounded ESD wrist strap.  Low humidity during the wintter months makes this especially important.

Also, I have repaired several older (2006 era) 7K's that had poor solder joints on the CPU and other fine-pitch SMT's.  They didn't look too bad, but applying a little pressure to the legs with a dental pick showed the solder joint was loose.  These boards had flux residue around the leads which had to be thoroughly cleaned before reflowing (after applying new flux).  I found over 50 joints that needed reworking on various IC's on the board.  Both radios were very intermittent, but faiiled consistently if the PCB was flexed slightly.

Steve, W3AHL


Re: IC7000 No power on, no relay click

Luc
 

Good job Steve,

Now i can starting to control those things on my propre 7000 with the same problem...

question...is there a posibility to test the rig without the pa board...to exclude problems in that board??

Greetings and keep up the good work

ON7KEC  Luc


Re: IC7000 No power on, no relay click

Steve Kent
 

Hi Jeff:

Excellent write-up. Very nice deep dive!

I have a DeWalt radio with a mechanical-digital encoder that failed. Found a replacement encoder at Mouser.com. I ordered a tray of 12 of them and it was less than $20 delivered. Fixed the problem, but the radio started suffering other strange anomalies that I have yet to get into.

Regards & 73,
Steve - KW5CQ


Re: IC7000 No power on, no relay click

William Kerker
 

Don't know if it's the same, but just found this if your repair doesn't work out. It looks very similar.


On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 4:33 PM Jeff Atwood via groups.io <km4pv=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
That is very good detective work. Glad to see troubleshooting on that level.  Not sure if anyone else has ever had the issue of the memory bank switch on the IC7000 not working correctly but I'll add my two cents worth:

Some time ago I had noticed that the memory bank switch was starting to act up. As it was switching between banks, the display would jump back and forth between the banks A -> B -> C -> B etc. Eventually it settled onto one bank and never switched again no matter which way I would turn the knob.

Inline image

After contacting Icom to see how much the rotary switch was going to <gulp> cost, I decided to venture forth and investigate the cause not knowing if was indeed the switch or a component feeding voltage to the rotary switch.  

It wasn't too difficult to take the control off of the front panel - just one tiny ribbon cable.  Once I had the control on the bench and in a portable vise, I took my Dremel tool and drilled out the riveted rods' heads (two in the corners).  I carefully pried apart the sections one layer at a time. Starting from the knob shaft end: the first section (blue) is the memory bank selector (bad), the next section (blue) is the memory channel selector, followed by the white section (push-button). 

Here it is all strung out:
Inline image

In the above photo, the memory bank selector (blue) section is in the vise (below). The circled item is actually a multi-pronged contact wiper that makes contact from the conductive contact areas to the common (ground) center ring.  It is a digital switch that when rotated tells the radio which direction it is being rotated – I saw this on the scope with the other section which is still good (memory channel selector).  What I had discovered is that the contact wiper has these really TINY plastic pegs (two) that are simply pushed onto and holds the wiper flush with the plastic body.

Inline image

What I did was to get some decent superglue, applied a tiny dab on the bottom of the metal wiper section, aligned the metal wiper over the two pegs then clamped it for a while:

Inline image

Back together again:

Inline image

I then soldered the control back onto the daughter board of the control head, put the ribbon cable back in, screwed the control head back together, fired it up and everything works again!

Hopefully no else will ever this kind of problem but it sure is nice having access to all those memories again!

73,
Jeff
KM4PV


On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 04:36:27 PM EST, J.D. Barron <jeter.d.barron@...> wrote:


Great detective work, Steve! It makes me proud that another IC700 rejoins the living!.



--
Bill,  KMØF

Radio Amateurs must be tough, it's a 'Contact Sport'


Re: IC7000 No power on, no relay click

Jeff Atwood
 

That is very good detective work. Glad to see troubleshooting on that level.  Not sure if anyone else has ever had the issue of the memory bank switch on the IC7000 not working correctly but I'll add my two cents worth:

Some time ago I had noticed that the memory bank switch was starting to act up. As it was switching between banks, the display would jump back and forth between the banks A -> B -> C -> B etc. Eventually it settled onto one bank and never switched again no matter which way I would turn the knob.

Inline image

After contacting Icom to see how much the rotary switch was going to <gulp> cost, I decided to venture forth and investigate the cause not knowing if was indeed the switch or a component feeding voltage to the rotary switch.  

It wasn't too difficult to take the control off of the front panel - just one tiny ribbon cable.  Once I had the control on the bench and in a portable vise, I took my Dremel tool and drilled out the riveted rods' heads (two in the corners).  I carefully pried apart the sections one layer at a time. Starting from the knob shaft end: the first section (blue) is the memory bank selector (bad), the next section (blue) is the memory channel selector, followed by the white section (push-button). 

Here it is all strung out:
Inline image

In the above photo, the memory bank selector (blue) section is in the vise (below). The circled item is actually a multi-pronged contact wiper that makes contact from the conductive contact areas to the common (ground) center ring.  It is a digital switch that when rotated tells the radio which direction it is being rotated – I saw this on the scope with the other section which is still good (memory channel selector).  What I had discovered is that the contact wiper has these really TINY plastic pegs (two) that are simply pushed onto and holds the wiper flush with the plastic body.

Inline image

What I did was to get some decent superglue, applied a tiny dab on the bottom of the metal wiper section, aligned the metal wiper over the two pegs then clamped it for a while:

Inline image

Back together again:

Inline image

I then soldered the control back onto the daughter board of the control head, put the ribbon cable back in, screwed the control head back together, fired it up and everything works again!

Hopefully no else will ever this kind of problem but it sure is nice having access to all those memories again!

73,
Jeff
KM4PV


On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 04:36:27 PM EST, J.D. Barron <jeter.d.barron@...> wrote:


Great detective work, Steve! It makes me proud that another IC700 rejoins the living!.


Re: IC7000 No power on, no relay click

 

Great detective work, Steve! It makes me proud that another IC700 rejoins the living!.


Re: IC7000 No power on, no relay click

Pasquale S
 

Fantastic Steve !!!

 

Great job and thanks for sharing

 

Happy 2021 !!!

 

73s Pasquale IW0HEX

 

 

Inviato da Posta per Windows 10

 

Da: Steve Kent
Inviato: martedì 5 gennaio 2021 20:22
A: ic7000@groups.io
Oggetto: Re: [ic7000] IC7000 No power on, no relay click

 

So to recap and put all of this in one single post, the problem I was having with the rig was that it was completely dead. No relay clicks, nothing. I have verified +13V at the PA and elsewhere on the rig, including +3.3V at the output of the voltage regulator on the CPU board. The internal fuse tested OK. I could see +3.3V being pulled down on the main board (J2002) when I pressed the power button, so I knew that the control head, extension cable, interconnect board and flex cable were all OK.

The 3.3V supply is generated on the CPU board whenever power is supplied to the radio. The PWRK (power button) signal from the power button on the control head is ultimately tied to an I/O pin on the microprocessor (Pin 107 - General I/O Port) through several cables, interconnects and the main board.  When the PWRK pin is pulled low by pressing the POWER button, the microprocessor wakes up and pulls the POWS pin high. This turns on the relay driver (Q700), to pull the low side of the relay coil (RL701) to ground. The high side of the coil and the N.O. contact is sourced through the front panel fuse, which checks OK.

In the case of my rig, no matter what the state of the power switch, POWS never changes state to turn on the relay driver and therefore RL701. Seems like Icom (in my mind) got the signal names backwards: POWS should be the switch and PWRK, as in 'K' for the relay, but they are opposite. No big deal, just confusing.

I looked at the XTAL pins with a scope and found 16Mhz on both, so that verified that the CPU has a clock, but there was no activity on either the CPU data lines or the address lines of the CPU, confirming that the CPU is in fact, brain dead and not executing instructions.

Another interesting observation is that there are tiny dots of corrosion, along the top row of pins on the CPU and a spot to the right side of the CPU, extending to a small group of surface mount components. Once those areas were cleaned up with a fiberglass brush, it was evident that there was some erosion of the copper traces on the board near the processor. I found that Vcc was open on pins 98 & 99 and Pin 91 (PLLVcc) was isolated from the circuit. There are ventilation slots on the CPU board shield that line up with the ventilation slots on the top cover. Brilliant! I don't recall anything splashing on the rig, but for the 5 years it was mounted to the floor as a mobile rig, who knows.

After bridging pins 98 & 99 together, and running a jumper wire to R1305, the rig powers on and works FB!
 
73 and good luck,
Steve - KW5CQ

 


Re: IC7000 No power on, no relay click

Steve Kent
 

So to recap and put all of this in one single post, the problem I was having with the rig was that it was completely dead. No relay clicks, nothing. I have verified +13V at the PA and elsewhere on the rig, including +3.3V at the output of the voltage regulator on the CPU board. The internal fuse tested OK. I could see +3.3V being pulled down on the main board (J2002) when I pressed the power button, so I knew that the control head, extension cable, interconnect board and flex cable were all OK.

The 3.3V supply is generated on the CPU board whenever power is supplied to the radio. The PWRK (power button) signal from the power button on the control head is ultimately tied to an I/O pin on the microprocessor (Pin 107 - General I/O Port) through several cables, interconnects and the main board.  When the PWRK pin is pulled low by pressing the POWER button, the microprocessor wakes up and pulls the POWS pin high. This turns on the relay driver (Q700), to pull the low side of the relay coil (RL701) to ground. The high side of the coil and the N.O. contact is sourced through the front panel fuse, which checks OK.

In the case of my rig, no matter what the state of the power switch, POWS never changes state to turn on the relay driver and therefore RL701. Seems like Icom (in my mind) got the signal names backwards: POWS should be the switch and PWRK, as in 'K' for the relay, but they are opposite. No big deal, just confusing.

I looked at the XTAL pins with a scope and found 16Mhz on both, so that verified that the CPU has a clock, but there was no activity on either the CPU data lines or the address lines of the CPU, confirming that the CPU is in fact, brain dead and not executing instructions.

Another interesting observation is that there are tiny dots of corrosion, along the top row of pins on the CPU and a spot to the right side of the CPU, extending to a small group of surface mount components. Once those areas were cleaned up with a fiberglass brush, it was evident that there was some erosion of the copper traces on the board near the processor. I found that Vcc was open on pins 98 & 99 and Pin 91 (PLLVcc) was isolated from the circuit. There are ventilation slots on the CPU board shield that line up with the ventilation slots on the top cover. Brilliant! I don't recall anything splashing on the rig, but for the 5 years it was mounted to the floor as a mobile rig, who knows.

After bridging pins 98 & 99 together, and running a jumper wire to R1305, the rig powers on and works FB!
 
73 and good luck,
Steve - KW5CQ

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