[EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant


Jeffrey Schoonmaker
 

So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker

--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774


zach schwartz-weinstein
 

Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker

--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774


Andy Mason
 

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Tom Lake
 

The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Larry & Penny Alden
 

We don’t raise starlings to be released in the wild for hunters to shoot at. 

Larry Alden 


On Jan 15, 2021, at 8:59 AM, Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7@...> wrote:


The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Tristan Lowery
 

The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Naomi Lloyd
 

In Queens pheasants are often found in large cemeteries, where I doubt they're stocked. :-)

Naomi


On Friday, January 15, 2021, 09:06:09 AM EST, emberiza_tristrami <tristanlowery@...> wrote:


The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--Andrew Mason13 Boylston St.Oneonta, NY  13820(607) 652-2162AndyMason@... 


John Kent
 

Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Richard Guthrie
 

Too bad we didn't have an Atlas project or eBird back in the '70s and 80s. I can recall seeing broods of Ring-necked Pheasant chicks down in the Coxsackie flats on numerous occasions back then.

But since they were not native and hence not so note-worthy, they went, most often, not noted. 

Now, at least, we can document their status that may eventually be useful. 

Rich Guthrie

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 



--
Richard Guthrie


Alan
 

I saw Pheasants occasionally during the time when I lived in Delmar, probably between about 1957 or so, when I got interested in birds, and the late 1960s part of my tenure there.

The pair of Northern Bobwhites I had under my feeders for a while years ago were considered escapees and not counted by Feederwatch.

Clear skies, Alan

On 1/15/2021 10:38 AM, John Kent wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Robert Lewis
 

The first Atlas project was 1980-85.  I remember doing it in 1981.

Bob Lewis

On Friday, January 15, 2021, 11:21:33 AM EST, Richard Guthrie <richardpguthrie@gmail.com> wrote:


Too bad we didn't have an Atlas project or eBird back in the '70s and 80s. I can recall seeing broods of Ring-necked Pheasant chicks down in the Coxsackie flats on numerous occasions back then.
--
Richard Guthrie


Tom Lake
 

Rich - - - Were those chick imported for future gunplay? Or was that natural propagation? Tom


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Guthrie <richardpguthrie@...>
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBC Posts <hmbirds@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Too bad we didn't have an Atlas project or eBird back in the '70s and 80s. I can recall seeing broods of Ring-necked Pheasant chicks down in the Coxsackie flats on numerous occasions back then.

But since they were not native and hence not so note-worthy, they went, most often, not noted. 

Now, at least, we can document their status that may eventually be useful. 

Rich Guthrie

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 



--
Richard Guthrie


Tom Lake
 

Rich, et al.

My reply to Tristan....(in part)

Dear Tristan,
Are we 100% sure no one puts Pheasant on their land for reasons other than hunting?

The survivability question is one we hear over and over. Is there real sustained scientific data to support it. To me it seems to be some conjecture as to their native range vs. our winters. Ring-necked Pheasant are commonly (as common as their un-commonality allows) seen in places quit a ways from hunting preserves.

Nature is chock full of wildlife successfully adapting to introduced climates. For example we have records of pirapitinga (red-bellied pacu) a type of pihrana in the Hudson River that would be at home in the Amazon. Not to be argumentative, but just asking the question that perhaps someone has already answered.

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Guthrie <richardpguthrie@...>
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBC Posts <hmbirds@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Too bad we didn't have an Atlas project or eBird back in the '70s and 80s. I can recall seeing broods of Ring-necked Pheasant chicks down in the Coxsackie flats on numerous occasions back then.

But since they were not native and hence not so note-worthy, they went, most often, not noted. 

Now, at least, we can document their status that may eventually be useful. 

Rich Guthrie

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 



--
Richard Guthrie


Tom Lake
 

Dear HM-Birders, et al.

Here is an interesting, perhaps comparable, example among fishes: We import Grass carp, or White amur (Ctenopharyngodon idella) for the sole purpose of aquatic vegetation control. Once a pond or lake is "fixed," so to speak, we eradicate them (or try to)---rotenone rather than shoguns. But come fish survey or census time, we count the white amurs. I understand that might not be be apple-to-apples for bird counts.  (Good non-violent discussion; no storming the barricades!)

Tom Lake

-----Original Message-----
From: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


John Kent
 

The original question was about "countability", in the context of competitive listing. When considering whether a species you've seen is countable for ABA listing purposes, the first consideration is whether it's on the official state list. Ring-necked Pheasant is on the New York list long ago because it was established as a breeding species. But since then it declined a great deal, and in many areas where it previously bred it no longer does. I don't believe anyone has seen any newly fledged in the wild in this part of NY in recent memory. That would mean that it's not countable around here per the ABA rule interpretations below (from https://www.aba.org/aba-recording-rules-and-interpretations/ ) This is because these individuals aren't part of an established population.

(v) an individual of an introduced species may be counted only when part of, or straying from, a population that meets the first seven criteria of the ABA Checklist Committee’s Criteria for Determining Establishment of Exotics; ( https://www.aba.org/criteria-for-determining-establishment-of-exotics/ )

(vi) an individual of a reintroduced indigenous species may be counted if it is part of a population that has successfully hatched young in the wild or when it is not possible to reasonably separate the reintroduced individual from a wild-born individual;

Anyway, Tom, these rules are just meant to standardize competitive listing, I'm not vouching for their biological significance.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 1:06 PM, TOM LAKE wrote:
Dear HM-Birders, et al.

Here is an interesting, perhaps comparable, example among fishes: We import Grass carp, or White amur (Ctenopharyngodon idella) for the sole purpose of aquatic vegetation control. Once a pond or lake is "fixed," so to speak, we eradicate them (or try to)---rotenone rather than shoguns. But come fish survey or census time, we count the white amurs. I understand that might not be be apple-to-apples for bird counts.  (Good non-violent discussion; no storming the barricades!)

Tom Lake

-----Original Message-----
From: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 



kernscot
 

love this discussion. The only ring-necked pheasants in the Town of Austerlitz appear to come from the Austerlitz Club, a place that has raised several thousand pheasants a year for hunting, future breeding stock, and for food in past years. There are escapes that wander away, but our fox, hawk, and coyotes etc. usually get them.

I have seen no wild, established pheasants breeding in Columbia County. I do report them just for the record if they are away from buildings and established release areas. I think we should report them, with a note of explanation.

Nancy Kern

Austerlitz, NY
Columbia County






From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7@...>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 12:57 PM
To: richardpguthrie@... <richardpguthrie@...>; k2ent76@... <k2ent76@...>
Cc: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
Rich, et al.

My reply to Tristan....(in part)

Dear Tristan,
Are we 100% sure no one puts Pheasant on their land for reasons other than hunting?

The survivability question is one we hear over and over. Is there real sustained scientific data to support it. To me it seems to be some conjecture as to their native range vs. our winters. Ring-necked Pheasant are commonly (as common as their un-commonality allows) seen in places quit a ways from hunting preserves.

Nature is chock full of wildlife successfully adapting to introduced climates. For example we have records of pirapitinga (red-bellied pacu) a type of pihrana in the Hudson River that would be at home in the Amazon. Not to be argumentative, but just asking the question that perhaps someone has already answered.

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Guthrie <richardpguthrie@...>
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBC Posts <hmbirds@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Too bad we didn't have an Atlas project or eBird back in the '70s and 80s. I can recall seeing broods of Ring-necked Pheasant chicks down in the Coxsackie flats on numerous occasions back then.

But since they were not native and hence not so note-worthy, they went, most often, not noted. 

Now, at least, we can document their status that may eventually be useful. 

Rich Guthrie

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 



--
Richard Guthrie


Scott Varney
 

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Will Raup
 

We actually do.  It is called the breeding bird atlas.

There are no sustainable wild populations of Pheasants locally anymore.

Will Raup



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>
Date: 1/15/21 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Tristan Lowery
 

Except we do have “real info”. According to maps available through the New York State Breeding Bird Atlas III portal on eBird, there were only three confirmed instances of Ring-necked Pheasant breeding in New York State in all of 2020 and none of these records are from the Hudson-Mohawk region (there is one record each from Kings County, Queens County, and Livingston County – the last one being the only upstate confirmation). I’m not a population biologist, but those numbers don’t seem to indicate a substantial breeding population in New York State, especially for a species that isn’t particularly difficult to detect. And all the other proof of Ring-necked Pheasants breeding this area thus far mentioned in this thread is anecdotal evidence from three, four – even five decades – ago.

 

Just because we can’t prove that Ring-necked Pheasants aren’t breeding in this area doesn’t mean that they are. I could use the same exact fallacious logic to argue that mountain lions exist in this area.


Tristan Lowery

Albany 


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 4:56 PM Will Raup <Hoaryredpoll@...> wrote:
We actually do.  It is called the breeding bird atlas.

There are no sustainable wild populations of Pheasants locally anymore.

Will Raup



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>
Date: 1/15/21 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Tom Lake
 

Hi Tristan,

I really like your examples. This academic inquiry is made richer for us by your logic.

As for Mountain lions, wow.... there is a beast that has an entirely different and very complex suite of requirements. 
They may be an even more enjoyable topic to discuss sometime---best wait until one of us "sees" one. 

P.S. Coincidentally, in the Hudson River Almanac this week we discussed why it can be ill-advised for scientists to use the word "never." 

Be well, stay well Tristan .... all of us have to secure our spots in the 2021 CBCs.

TOM


-----Original Message-----
From: emberiza_tristrami <tristanlowery@...>
To: Will Raup <Hoaryredpoll@...>
Cc: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>; John Kent <k2ent76@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 5:02 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Except we do have “real info”. According to maps available through the New York State Breeding Bird Atlas III portal on eBird, there were only three confirmed instances of Ring-necked Pheasant breeding in New York State in all of 2020 and none of these records are from the Hudson-Mohawk region (there is one record each from Kings County, Queens County, and Livingston County – the last one being the only upstate confirmation). I’m not a population biologist, but those numbers don’t seem to indicate a substantial breeding population in New York State, especially for a species that isn’t particularly difficult to detect. And all the other proof of Ring-necked Pheasants breeding this area thus far mentioned in this thread is anecdotal evidence from three, four – even five decades – ago.
 
Just because we can’t prove that Ring-necked Pheasants aren’t breeding in this area doesn’t mean that they are. I could use the same exact fallacious logic to argue that mountain lions exist in this area.

Tristan Lowery
Albany 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 4:56 PM Will Raup <Hoaryredpoll@...> wrote:
We actually do.  It is called the breeding bird atlas.

There are no sustainable wild populations of Pheasants locally anymore.

Will Raup



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>
Date: 1/15/21 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
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Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
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Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

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Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@...