Date   

Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Scott Varney
 

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Re: Pheasant

ConserveBirds
 

The area is closed to hunting at certain times when the owls may be present; I can’t recall the dates now.  It still bothers me that NYS does not give birders the opportunity to purchase a special annual bird stamp that would support conservation efforts for birds.  I have always purchased a duck stamp but with no way to specify that you are a birder, it is assumed that the fees all come from hunters.  Just my 2 cents.

Mona

 

From: Nancy Jane Kern [mailto:kernscot@...]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 2:47 PM
To: ConserveBirds <conservebirds@...>; 'Lindsey Duval' <lindsey.duval@...>; 'zach schwartz-weinstein' <zachsw@...>
Cc: 'Jeffrey Schoonmaker' <j.schoonmaker@...>; 'HMBirds' <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

Mona-

 

I remember this and also protested. I understand DEC and politics, but it made me uneasy to bird in the area and see hunters walking through. I believe they also deer hunt there too.

 

Nancy Kern

 

 

 


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of ConserveBirds <conservebirds@...>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 10:41 AM
To: 'Lindsey Duval' <lindsey.duval@...>; 'zach schwartz-weinstein' <zachsw@...>
Cc: 'Jeffrey Schoonmaker' <j.schoonmaker@...>; 'HMBirds' <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

Southern Adirondack Audubon protested the release of pheasants in this area when we heard of the plan.  Somehow releasing an alien introduced species for hunting in an area purchased and supposedly protected for an endangered native species seemed very counter productive.  DEC’s reasoning was that they had to keep the hunters happy and they wouldn’t make it through the winter.  However, pheasants are commonly seen now in Spring and Summer, long before the next group is released in the fall. So….?

 

Mona Bearor

Now in Stuart’s Draft Hwy, Staunton, VA

 

 

 

From: hmbirds@groups.io [mailto:hmbirds@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lindsey Duval
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

 

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:

I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:

Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.

As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

 

Jeff Schoonmaker

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774


Re: Pheasant

kernscot
 

Mona-

I remember this and also protested. I understand DEC and politics, but it made me uneasy to bird in the area and see hunters walking through. I believe they also deer hunt there too.

Nancy Kern




From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of ConserveBirds <conservebirds@...>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 10:41 AM
To: 'Lindsey Duval' <lindsey.duval@...>; 'zach schwartz-weinstein' <zachsw@...>
Cc: 'Jeffrey Schoonmaker' <j.schoonmaker@...>; 'HMBirds' <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 

Southern Adirondack Audubon protested the release of pheasants in this area when we heard of the plan.  Somehow releasing an alien introduced species for hunting in an area purchased and supposedly protected for an endangered native species seemed very counter productive.  DEC’s reasoning was that they had to keep the hunters happy and they wouldn’t make it through the winter.  However, pheasants are commonly seen now in Spring and Summer, long before the next group is released in the fall. So….?

 

Mona Bearor

Now in Stuart’s Draft Hwy, Staunton, VA

 

 

 

From: hmbirds@groups.io [mailto:hmbirds@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lindsey Duval
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

 

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:

I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:

Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.

As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

 

Jeff Schoonmaker

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774


Juvenile Red Tail Hawk

Linda M Wheeler
 
Edited


-- I went over to Goldfoot Rd in Round Lake to see if I could view any White-winged Crossbills.  No luck with those, but I did see this young Red tail hawk looking around the area from a large tree right over the bike path!
Happy Birding!


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

kernscot
 

love this discussion. The only ring-necked pheasants in the Town of Austerlitz appear to come from the Austerlitz Club, a place that has raised several thousand pheasants a year for hunting, future breeding stock, and for food in past years. There are escapes that wander away, but our fox, hawk, and coyotes etc. usually get them.

I have seen no wild, established pheasants breeding in Columbia County. I do report them just for the record if they are away from buildings and established release areas. I think we should report them, with a note of explanation.

Nancy Kern

Austerlitz, NY
Columbia County






From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7@...>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 12:57 PM
To: richardpguthrie@... <richardpguthrie@...>; k2ent76@... <k2ent76@...>
Cc: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
Rich, et al.

My reply to Tristan....(in part)

Dear Tristan,
Are we 100% sure no one puts Pheasant on their land for reasons other than hunting?

The survivability question is one we hear over and over. Is there real sustained scientific data to support it. To me it seems to be some conjecture as to their native range vs. our winters. Ring-necked Pheasant are commonly (as common as their un-commonality allows) seen in places quit a ways from hunting preserves.

Nature is chock full of wildlife successfully adapting to introduced climates. For example we have records of pirapitinga (red-bellied pacu) a type of pihrana in the Hudson River that would be at home in the Amazon. Not to be argumentative, but just asking the question that perhaps someone has already answered.

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Guthrie <richardpguthrie@...>
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBC Posts <hmbirds@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Too bad we didn't have an Atlas project or eBird back in the '70s and 80s. I can recall seeing broods of Ring-necked Pheasant chicks down in the Coxsackie flats on numerous occasions back then.

But since they were not native and hence not so note-worthy, they went, most often, not noted. 

Now, at least, we can document their status that may eventually be useful. 

Rich Guthrie

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 



--
Richard Guthrie


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

John Kent
 

The original question was about "countability", in the context of competitive listing. When considering whether a species you've seen is countable for ABA listing purposes, the first consideration is whether it's on the official state list. Ring-necked Pheasant is on the New York list long ago because it was established as a breeding species. But since then it declined a great deal, and in many areas where it previously bred it no longer does. I don't believe anyone has seen any newly fledged in the wild in this part of NY in recent memory. That would mean that it's not countable around here per the ABA rule interpretations below (from https://www.aba.org/aba-recording-rules-and-interpretations/ ) This is because these individuals aren't part of an established population.

(v) an individual of an introduced species may be counted only when part of, or straying from, a population that meets the first seven criteria of the ABA Checklist Committee’s Criteria for Determining Establishment of Exotics; ( https://www.aba.org/criteria-for-determining-establishment-of-exotics/ )

(vi) an individual of a reintroduced indigenous species may be counted if it is part of a population that has successfully hatched young in the wild or when it is not possible to reasonably separate the reintroduced individual from a wild-born individual;

Anyway, Tom, these rules are just meant to standardize competitive listing, I'm not vouching for their biological significance.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 1:06 PM, TOM LAKE wrote:
Dear HM-Birders, et al.

Here is an interesting, perhaps comparable, example among fishes: We import Grass carp, or White amur (Ctenopharyngodon idella) for the sole purpose of aquatic vegetation control. Once a pond or lake is "fixed," so to speak, we eradicate them (or try to)---rotenone rather than shoguns. But come fish survey or census time, we count the white amurs. I understand that might not be be apple-to-apples for bird counts.  (Good non-violent discussion; no storming the barricades!)

Tom Lake

-----Original Message-----
From: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 



Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Tom Lake <trlake7@...>
 

Dear HM-Birders, et al.

Here is an interesting, perhaps comparable, example among fishes: We import Grass carp, or White amur (Ctenopharyngodon idella) for the sole purpose of aquatic vegetation control. Once a pond or lake is "fixed," so to speak, we eradicate them (or try to)---rotenone rather than shoguns. But come fish survey or census time, we count the white amurs. I understand that might not be be apple-to-apples for bird counts.  (Good non-violent discussion; no storming the barricades!)

Tom Lake

-----Original Message-----
From: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Tom Lake <trlake7@...>
 

Rich, et al.

My reply to Tristan....(in part)

Dear Tristan,
Are we 100% sure no one puts Pheasant on their land for reasons other than hunting?

The survivability question is one we hear over and over. Is there real sustained scientific data to support it. To me it seems to be some conjecture as to their native range vs. our winters. Ring-necked Pheasant are commonly (as common as their un-commonality allows) seen in places quit a ways from hunting preserves.

Nature is chock full of wildlife successfully adapting to introduced climates. For example we have records of pirapitinga (red-bellied pacu) a type of pihrana in the Hudson River that would be at home in the Amazon. Not to be argumentative, but just asking the question that perhaps someone has already answered.

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Guthrie <richardpguthrie@...>
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBC Posts <hmbirds@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Too bad we didn't have an Atlas project or eBird back in the '70s and 80s. I can recall seeing broods of Ring-necked Pheasant chicks down in the Coxsackie flats on numerous occasions back then.

But since they were not native and hence not so note-worthy, they went, most often, not noted. 

Now, at least, we can document their status that may eventually be useful. 

Rich Guthrie

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 



--
Richard Guthrie


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Tom Lake <trlake7@...>
 

Rich - - - Were those chick imported for future gunplay? Or was that natural propagation? Tom


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Guthrie <richardpguthrie@...>
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBC Posts <hmbirds@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Too bad we didn't have an Atlas project or eBird back in the '70s and 80s. I can recall seeing broods of Ring-necked Pheasant chicks down in the Coxsackie flats on numerous occasions back then.

But since they were not native and hence not so note-worthy, they went, most often, not noted. 

Now, at least, we can document their status that may eventually be useful. 

Rich Guthrie

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 



--
Richard Guthrie


Pheasants

Jeffrey Schoonmaker
 

Many thanks to all who have posted comments and perspectives about Ring-necked Pheasants.  Because they are listed among the FunRun birds, I did record my sighting there.  

Yesterday, there was a female with the male, and both were loose and on their own, not caged or in a zoo.  If those who released some birds gave us exact numbers, and the specific region of release, then, when hunting season was over, those same people reported on how many were killed by hunters, we'd be in a better position to judge whether unkilled pheasants survived.  If some survive, no one can say that one seen a year from now, or two years from now, could not possibly be a bird successfully living on its own in the wild.

We lived across the street from a small cemetery on Route 4 near HVCC in 1971 and saw Ring-necked Pheasants there on many days.  About 10 years ago we saw one on a side road up from the east side of the Tomhannock Reservoir.

If this were a sanctioned contest, a Breeding Bird Survey, or some other highly significant counting activity, perhaps the situation would be different.  But it's just me.  I saw the male and female birds together in the wild, I was thrilled to see them, I loved the good photo I got, and I'm adding it to my lists of birds seen.

Thanks again for all your thoughtful and important insights and comments.  I really have appreciated every one of them.  Stay well!

Jeff Schoonmaker


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Robert Lewis
 

The first Atlas project was 1980-85.  I remember doing it in 1981.

Bob Lewis

On Friday, January 15, 2021, 11:21:33 AM EST, Richard Guthrie <richardpguthrie@gmail.com> wrote:


Too bad we didn't have an Atlas project or eBird back in the '70s and 80s. I can recall seeing broods of Ring-necked Pheasant chicks down in the Coxsackie flats on numerous occasions back then.
--
Richard Guthrie


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Alan
 

I saw Pheasants occasionally during the time when I lived in Delmar, probably between about 1957 or so, when I got interested in birds, and the late 1960s part of my tenure there.

The pair of Northern Bobwhites I had under my feeders for a while years ago were considered escapees and not counted by Feederwatch.

Clear skies, Alan

On 1/15/2021 10:38 AM, John Kent wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Richard Guthrie
 

Too bad we didn't have an Atlas project or eBird back in the '70s and 80s. I can recall seeing broods of Ring-necked Pheasant chicks down in the Coxsackie flats on numerous occasions back then.

But since they were not native and hence not so note-worthy, they went, most often, not noted. 

Now, at least, we can document their status that may eventually be useful. 

Rich Guthrie

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 



--
Richard Guthrie


Re: Pheasant

ConserveBirds
 

Southern Adirondack Audubon protested the release of pheasants in this area when we heard of the plan.  Somehow releasing an alien introduced species for hunting in an area purchased and supposedly protected for an endangered native species seemed very counter productive.  DEC’s reasoning was that they had to keep the hunters happy and they wouldn’t make it through the winter.  However, pheasants are commonly seen now in Spring and Summer, long before the next group is released in the fall. So….?

 

Mona Bearor

Now in Stuart’s Draft Hwy, Staunton, VA

 

 

 

From: hmbirds@groups.io [mailto:hmbirds@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lindsey Duval
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

 

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:

I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:

Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.

As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

 

Jeff Schoonmaker

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

John Kent
 

Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Naomi Lloyd
 

In Queens pheasants are often found in large cemeteries, where I doubt they're stocked. :-)

Naomi


On Friday, January 15, 2021, 09:06:09 AM EST, emberiza_tristrami <tristanlowery@...> wrote:


The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--Andrew Mason13 Boylston St.Oneonta, NY  13820(607) 652-2162AndyMason@... 


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Tristan Lowery
 

The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Larry & Penny Alden
 

We don’t raise starlings to be released in the wild for hunters to shoot at. 

Larry Alden 


On Jan 15, 2021, at 8:59 AM, Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7@...> wrote:


The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Tom Lake <trlake7@...>
 

The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Re: Pheasant

Ellen
 

I found a Ring-Necked Pheasant at the intersection of Fitzgerald Dr. and Blackhouse Rd. last Friday.  Maybe the same bird?

 

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Ellen P.

West Charlton

 

From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Schoonmaker
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 5:49 PM
To: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.

As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

 

Jeff Schoonmaker

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