Date   

White-winged Crossbills, Colonie- 1/16

trwdsd
 

We have an outdoor sound monitor (re-purposed baby monitor) here in Colonie to listen to bird sounds. Around 2:30 this afternoon we could hear an odd finch-sound from the yard. Went outside and tracked down a small flock of six White-winged Crossbills investigating cones in several of the pines. They flew off after a few minutes, but a separate male/female pair flew in about fifteen minutes later, making the same call. If you listen to the 0:34 second "calls" recording at allaboutbirds.org you will hear what we heard.    https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/White-winged_Crossbill/sounds

Enjoy the winter finch irruption!

Tom & Colleen Williams 
Colonie 


Re: Pheasant

Alan
 

Alan, interesting, thanks! So I guess they were rather local populations.

The Northern Bobwhites here were the only ones I have ever seen.

Clear skies, Alan

On 1/16/2021 2:37 PM, Alan Mapes wrote:
Alan - I’m thinking back to the time that we created that checklist for Five Rivers. A neighboring landowner raised and released these two species for hunting and dog training purposes back then. The pheasants, I believe, had some broods of young in the wild - not so sure about the bobwhites.

Cheers, Alan Mapes



On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 1:57 PM Alan <adfrench@...> wrote:
I should have done this earlier, but I just thought to look at my yard
list. It's actually a Bird Checklist for Five Rivers Environmental
Education Center published in 1983.

I note that both Ring-necked Pheasant and Northern Bobwhite are on the
checklist. The Pheasant is labeled as U (uncommon - A species which you
can occasionally expect to see during its normal period of occurrence)
and P (permanent resident - A species which remains in the Five Rivers
re all seasons of the year and breeds here). The Bobwhite is labeled as
RP (R, rare - A species you can only expect to see by chance).

Clearly this has changed over the past 37 years.

Both have been seen in my yard, Ring-necked Pheasant on 11/2/2005 and
Bobwhite on 9/20/2007. The two Bobwhites stayed around for a couple of
weeks and were frequently seen under my feeders.

While whether they are countable in various situations may be debatable,
I am happy to have a record of their appearance here.

I also note that Red-bellied Woodpecker is nowhere on the Five Rivers
Checklist, not on birds at Five Rivers, "Species seen less than five
times...," or "Species which occur in the area but have not yet been
seen at Five Rivers." I had to pencil it in when we first saw one in the
yard in October, 1993.

Clear skies, Alan
Glenville






Re: Pheasant

Alan Mapes
 

Alan - I’m thinking back to the time that we created that checklist for Five Rivers. A neighboring landowner raised and released these two species for hunting and dog training purposes back then. The pheasants, I believe, had some broods of young in the wild - not so sure about the bobwhites.

Cheers, Alan Mapes



On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 1:57 PM Alan <adfrench@...> wrote:
I should have done this earlier, but I just thought to look at my yard
list. It's actually a Bird Checklist for Five Rivers Environmental
Education Center published in 1983.

I note that both Ring-necked Pheasant and Northern Bobwhite are on the
checklist. The Pheasant is labeled as U (uncommon - A species which you
can occasionally expect to see during its normal period of occurrence)
and P (permanent resident - A species which remains in the Five Rivers
re all seasons of the year and breeds here). The Bobwhite is labeled as
RP (R, rare - A species you can only expect to see by chance).

Clearly this has changed over the past 37 years.

Both have been seen in my yard, Ring-necked Pheasant on 11/2/2005 and
Bobwhite on 9/20/2007. The two Bobwhites stayed around for a couple of
weeks and were frequently seen under my feeders.

While whether they are countable in various situations may be debatable,
I am happy to have a record of their appearance here.

I also note that Red-bellied Woodpecker is nowhere on the Five Rivers
Checklist, not on birds at Five Rivers, "Species seen less than five
times...," or "Species which occur in the area but have not yet been
seen at Five Rivers." I had to pencil it in when we first saw one in the
yard in October, 1993.

Clear skies, Alan
Glenville






Re: Pheasant

Alan
 

I should have done this earlier, but I just thought to look at my yard list. It's actually a Bird Checklist for Five Rivers Environmental Education Center published in 1983.

I note that both Ring-necked Pheasant and Northern Bobwhite are on the checklist. The Pheasant is labeled as U (uncommon - A species which you can occasionally expect to see during its normal period of occurrence) and P (permanent resident - A species which remains in the Five Rivers re all seasons of the year and breeds here). The Bobwhite is labeled as RP (R, rare - A species you can only expect to see by chance).

Clearly this has changed over the past 37 years.

Both have been seen in my yard, Ring-necked Pheasant on 11/2/2005 and Bobwhite on 9/20/2007. The two Bobwhites stayed around for a couple of weeks and were frequently seen under my feeders.

While whether they are countable in various situations may be debatable, I am happy to have a record of their appearance here.

I also note that Red-bellied Woodpecker is nowhere on the Five Rivers Checklist, not on birds at Five Rivers, "Species seen less than five times...," or "Species which occur in the area but have not yet been seen at Five Rivers." I had to pencil it in when we first saw one in the yard in October, 1993.

Clear skies, Alan
Glenville


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Tristan Lowery
 

Like Zach said, “countability” for competitive listing is an entirely different matter from the citizen science purposes of eBird. I’m not a compiler for any of the local competitive birding events (viz., the Century Run, the Fun Run, etc.), but I have been a participant and it seems to me that each contest has its own rules for what can be counted. If everyone is following the same standard for each event, everything should be fair. Going back to Jeff’s original question, Ring-necked Pheasant is on the Fun Run list, so its participants seem to have agreed that species can be counted when encountered regardless of provenance, meaning that everyone involved has an equal chance to add that species to their total. On the other hand, I’ve encountered Northern Bobwhite on the Century Run, which my team did not count, as it’s understood they’re either escapees from captivity or introduced gamebirds in our area. I’m not sure if there’s an official Century Run rule on Ring-necked Pheasant though.

 

I’ve never seen a pheasant on a Christmas Bird Count and can’t recall their mention in any compilation I’ve ever attended, so I’m not sure how they should be treated. If they are observed on a local CBC, it seems they are surviving in the wild at that moment, regardless of provenance and however temporarily, and should be recorded. But maybe not. Perhaps some of the CBC compilers can weigh in on how pheasant reports have been handled historically.


Tristan Lowery

Albany


On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 11:30 AM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I cannot speak for CBCs but eBird reviewers don’t generally use countability to evaluate whether a sighting can be confirmed.  (There are exceptions to this, like when a sighting is rejected by a state rarities committee.).  But even then, eBird generally wants the reports regardless of whether the birds are countable or even confirmable.  Upstate reports of Northern Bobwhite, for instance, are generally marked Unconfirmed by reviewers because it is an introduced species to this area and it isn’t forming self-sustaining wild populations, but those unconfirmed records are still useful for and searchable by researchers who are tracking introduced populations.  Individual eBird users never need to worry about whether a bird is countable before reporting it, unless you’re doing something like eBirding hornbills in a glass enclosure at the Bronx Zoo.  “Countability” is a separate concern for competitive listing. 

On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 11:21 AM Ellen Pemrick <lnmp@...> wrote:

With regard to CBCs and eBird – NOT the Breeding Bird Atlas – isn’t it presumptuous to assume that the observer will know that a Ring-Necked Pheasant isn’t “countable”?  I saw  my first pheasant in Nova Scotia many years ago, and honestly, I haven’t the slightest idea whether it was a “wild”/breeding or “introduced” bird.

 

Ellen

 

From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> On Behalf Of emberiza_tristrami
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 7:17 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>; John Kent <k2ent76@...>; Will Raup <hoaryredpoll@...>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

In 2020, the first year of the third New York State Breeding Bird Atlas, a “remarkably scant population of volunteer observers” of over 1,500 individuals submitted over 100,000 checklists that covered 73 percent of the state’s geographical area. Again, this is the third such five-year atlas conducted in the state, following up on efforts carried out from 1980-1985 and 2000-2005 – hardly “too short a time frame”.

 

To suggest that breeding bird atlas efforts such as the one currently taking place in New York are “inconsistent” or “inconclusive” is incorrect and misleading.

 

Tristan Lowery

Albany

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 7:15 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:

The breeding bird atlas is not “ completely based on observational data by a remarkably scant population of volunteer observers.”  There is a concrete set of requirements for the completion of each priority atlas block.  This includes exhaustive coverage of each habitat zone within a block.  It is unlikely that a great number of Ring-Necked Pheasants was simply missed in previous atlases, and it is similarly unlikely in the present atlas.  (Speaking of which, I’m one of the regional coordinators for the Third Atlas, and we do need people to sign up and cover priority blocks, especially in areas like Warren and Fulton County, which didn’t get a ton of coverage last year.  You can do so at eBird.org/atlasny 

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 7:01 PM Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...> wrote:

Could you define "locally"?   I'd love to see the data that supports this conclusion. The Breeding Bird Atlas is completely based on observational data by a remarkably scant population of olunteer observers.  I am thankful for the contributions of these participating observers, but there are way too many uncovered areas over too short a time frame to support a conclusion such as this.  Scientific conclusions such as this have been proven historically inconsistent.  Perhaps it is more prudent to respect "that the possibility of breeding populations of Ring-necked Pheasant within our local region is within reason" or that "Our data on the breeding  populations of the Ring-necked Pheasant within our local region is inconclusive in determining the viability of a known breeding population."

 

Respectfully,

 

Scott Varney

Salem, NY

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 4:56 PM Will Raup <hoaryredpoll@...> wrote:

We actually do.  It is called the breeding bird atlas.

 

There are no sustainable wild populations of Pheasants locally anymore.

 

Will Raup

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>

Date: 1/15/21 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00)

To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>

Cc: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>

Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

 

Scott Varney

Salem, NY

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:

Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:

The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

 

Tristan Lowery

Albany

 

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

 

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

 

With fish we count carp.

 

With trees we count the London plane.

 

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Tom Lake

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason

On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:

Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:

So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.

 


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

 

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

 

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:

I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:

Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.

As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

 

Jeff Schoonmaker

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

 

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 

 

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

zach schwartz-weinstein
 

I cannot speak for CBCs but eBird reviewers don’t generally use countability to evaluate whether a sighting can be confirmed.  (There are exceptions to this, like when a sighting is rejected by a state rarities committee.).  But even then, eBird generally wants the reports regardless of whether the birds are countable or even confirmable.  Upstate reports of Northern Bobwhite, for instance, are generally marked Unconfirmed by reviewers because it is an introduced species to this area and it isn’t forming self-sustaining wild populations, but those unconfirmed records are still useful for and searchable by researchers who are tracking introduced populations.  Individual eBird users never need to worry about whether a bird is countable before reporting it, unless you’re doing something like eBirding hornbills in a glass enclosure at the Bronx Zoo.  “Countability” is a separate concern for competitive listing. 

On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 11:21 AM Ellen Pemrick <lnmp@...> wrote:

With regard to CBCs and eBird – NOT the Breeding Bird Atlas – isn’t it presumptuous to assume that the observer will know that a Ring-Necked Pheasant isn’t “countable”?  I saw  my first pheasant in Nova Scotia many years ago, and honestly, I haven’t the slightest idea whether it was a “wild”/breeding or “introduced” bird.

 

Ellen

 

From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> On Behalf Of emberiza_tristrami
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 7:17 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>; John Kent <k2ent76@...>; Will Raup <hoaryredpoll@...>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

In 2020, the first year of the third New York State Breeding Bird Atlas, a “remarkably scant population of volunteer observers” of over 1,500 individuals submitted over 100,000 checklists that covered 73 percent of the state’s geographical area. Again, this is the third such five-year atlas conducted in the state, following up on efforts carried out from 1980-1985 and 2000-2005 – hardly “too short a time frame”.

 

To suggest that breeding bird atlas efforts such as the one currently taking place in New York are “inconsistent” or “inconclusive” is incorrect and misleading.

 

Tristan Lowery

Albany

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 7:15 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:

The breeding bird atlas is not “ completely based on observational data by a remarkably scant population of volunteer observers.”  There is a concrete set of requirements for the completion of each priority atlas block.  This includes exhaustive coverage of each habitat zone within a block.  It is unlikely that a great number of Ring-Necked Pheasants was simply missed in previous atlases, and it is similarly unlikely in the present atlas.  (Speaking of which, I’m one of the regional coordinators for the Third Atlas, and we do need people to sign up and cover priority blocks, especially in areas like Warren and Fulton County, which didn’t get a ton of coverage last year.  You can do so at eBird.org/atlasny 

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 7:01 PM Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...> wrote:

Could you define "locally"?   I'd love to see the data that supports this conclusion. The Breeding Bird Atlas is completely based on observational data by a remarkably scant population of olunteer observers.  I am thankful for the contributions of these participating observers, but there are way too many uncovered areas over too short a time frame to support a conclusion such as this.  Scientific conclusions such as this have been proven historically inconsistent.  Perhaps it is more prudent to respect "that the possibility of breeding populations of Ring-necked Pheasant within our local region is within reason" or that "Our data on the breeding  populations of the Ring-necked Pheasant within our local region is inconclusive in determining the viability of a known breeding population."

 

Respectfully,

 

Scott Varney

Salem, NY

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 4:56 PM Will Raup <hoaryredpoll@...> wrote:

We actually do.  It is called the breeding bird atlas.

 

There are no sustainable wild populations of Pheasants locally anymore.

 

Will Raup

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>

Date: 1/15/21 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00)

To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>

Cc: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>

Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

 

Scott Varney

Salem, NY

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:

Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:

The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

 

Tristan Lowery

Albany

 

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

 

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

 

With fish we count carp.

 

With trees we count the London plane.

 

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Tom Lake

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason

On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:

Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:

So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.

 


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

 

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

 

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:

I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:

Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.

As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

 

Jeff Schoonmaker

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

 

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 

 

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Ellen
 

With regard to CBCs and eBird – NOT the Breeding Bird Atlas – isn’t it presumptuous to assume that the observer will know that a Ring-Necked Pheasant isn’t “countable”?  I saw  my first pheasant in Nova Scotia many years ago, and honestly, I haven’t the slightest idea whether it was a “wild”/breeding or “introduced” bird.

 

Ellen

 

From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> On Behalf Of emberiza_tristrami
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 7:17 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>; John Kent <k2ent76@...>; Will Raup <hoaryredpoll@...>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

In 2020, the first year of the third New York State Breeding Bird Atlas, a “remarkably scant population of volunteer observers” of over 1,500 individuals submitted over 100,000 checklists that covered 73 percent of the state’s geographical area. Again, this is the third such five-year atlas conducted in the state, following up on efforts carried out from 1980-1985 and 2000-2005 – hardly “too short a time frame”.

 

To suggest that breeding bird atlas efforts such as the one currently taking place in New York are “inconsistent” or “inconclusive” is incorrect and misleading.

 

Tristan Lowery

Albany

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 7:15 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:

The breeding bird atlas is not “ completely based on observational data by a remarkably scant population of volunteer observers.”  There is a concrete set of requirements for the completion of each priority atlas block.  This includes exhaustive coverage of each habitat zone within a block.  It is unlikely that a great number of Ring-Necked Pheasants was simply missed in previous atlases, and it is similarly unlikely in the present atlas.  (Speaking of which, I’m one of the regional coordinators for the Third Atlas, and we do need people to sign up and cover priority blocks, especially in areas like Warren and Fulton County, which didn’t get a ton of coverage last year.  You can do so at eBird.org/atlasny 

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 7:01 PM Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...> wrote:

Could you define "locally"?   I'd love to see the data that supports this conclusion. The Breeding Bird Atlas is completely based on observational data by a remarkably scant population of olunteer observers.  I am thankful for the contributions of these participating observers, but there are way too many uncovered areas over too short a time frame to support a conclusion such as this.  Scientific conclusions such as this have been proven historically inconsistent.  Perhaps it is more prudent to respect "that the possibility of breeding populations of Ring-necked Pheasant within our local region is within reason" or that "Our data on the breeding  populations of the Ring-necked Pheasant within our local region is inconclusive in determining the viability of a known breeding population."

 

Respectfully,

 

Scott Varney

Salem, NY

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 4:56 PM Will Raup <hoaryredpoll@...> wrote:

We actually do.  It is called the breeding bird atlas.

 

There are no sustainable wild populations of Pheasants locally anymore.

 

Will Raup

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>

Date: 1/15/21 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00)

To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>

Cc: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>

Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

 

Scott Varney

Salem, NY

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:

Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:

The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

 

Tristan Lowery

Albany

 

 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

 

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

 

With fish we count carp.

 

With trees we count the London plane.

 

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Tom Lake

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason

On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:

Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:

So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.

 


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

 

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

 

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:

I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:

Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.

As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

 

Jeff Schoonmaker

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

 

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 

 

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Tristan Lowery
 

In 2020, the first year of the third New York State Breeding Bird Atlas, a “remarkably scant population of volunteer observers” of over 1,500 individuals submitted over 100,000 checklists that covered 73 percent of the state’s geographical area. Again, this is the third such five-year atlas conducted in the state, following up on efforts carried out from 1980-1985 and 2000-2005 – hardly “too short a time frame”.

 

To suggest that breeding bird atlas efforts such as the one currently taking place in New York are “inconsistent” or “inconclusive” is incorrect and misleading.


Tristan Lowery

Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 7:15 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
The breeding bird atlas is not “ completely based on observational data by a remarkably scant population of volunteer observers.”  There is a concrete set of requirements for the completion of each priority atlas block.  This includes exhaustive coverage of each habitat zone within a block.  It is unlikely that a great number of Ring-Necked Pheasants was simply missed in previous atlases, and it is similarly unlikely in the present atlas.  (Speaking of which, I’m one of the regional coordinators for the Third Atlas, and we do need people to sign up and cover priority blocks, especially in areas like Warren and Fulton County, which didn’t get a ton of coverage last year.  You can do so at eBird.org/atlasny 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 7:01 PM Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...> wrote:
Could you define "locally"?   I'd love to see the data that supports this conclusion. The Breeding Bird Atlas is completely based on observational data by a remarkably scant population of olunteer observers.  I am thankful for the contributions of these participating observers, but there are way too many uncovered areas over too short a time frame to support a conclusion such as this.  Scientific conclusions such as this have been proven historically inconsistent.  Perhaps it is more prudent to respect "that the possibility of breeding populations of Ring-necked Pheasant within our local region is within reason" or that "Our data on the breeding  populations of the Ring-necked Pheasant within our local region is inconclusive in determining the viability of a known breeding population."

Respectfully,

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 4:56 PM Will Raup <hoaryredpoll@...> wrote:
We actually do.  It is called the breeding bird atlas.

There are no sustainable wild populations of Pheasants locally anymore.

Will Raup



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>
Date: 1/15/21 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 

--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

zach schwartz-weinstein
 

The breeding bird atlas is not “ completely based on observational data by a remarkably scant population of volunteer observers.”  There is a concrete set of requirements for the completion of each priority atlas block.  This includes exhaustive coverage of each habitat zone within a block.  It is unlikely that a great number of Ring-Necked Pheasants was simply missed in previous atlases, and it is similarly unlikely in the present atlas.  (Speaking of which, I’m one of the regional coordinators for the Third Atlas, and we do need people to sign up and cover priority blocks, especially in areas like Warren and Fulton County, which didn’t get a ton of coverage last year.  You can do so at eBird.org/atlasny 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 7:01 PM Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...> wrote:
Could you define "locally"?   I'd love to see the data that supports this conclusion. The Breeding Bird Atlas is completely based on observational data by a remarkably scant population of olunteer observers.  I am thankful for the contributions of these participating observers, but there are way too many uncovered areas over too short a time frame to support a conclusion such as this.  Scientific conclusions such as this have been proven historically inconsistent.  Perhaps it is more prudent to respect "that the possibility of breeding populations of Ring-necked Pheasant within our local region is within reason" or that "Our data on the breeding  populations of the Ring-necked Pheasant within our local region is inconclusive in determining the viability of a known breeding population."

Respectfully,

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 4:56 PM Will Raup <hoaryredpoll@...> wrote:
We actually do.  It is called the breeding bird atlas.

There are no sustainable wild populations of Pheasants locally anymore.

Will Raup



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>
Date: 1/15/21 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 

--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Scott Varney
 

Could you define "locally"?   I'd love to see the data that supports this conclusion. The Breeding Bird Atlas is completely based on observational data by a remarkably scant population of volunteer observers.  I am thankful for the contributions of these participating observers, but there are way too many uncovered areas over too short a time frame to support a conclusion such as this.  Scientific conclusions such as this have been proven historically inconsistent.  Perhaps it is more prudent to respect "that the possibility of breeding populations of Ring-necked Pheasant within our local region is within reason" or that "Our data on the breeding  populations of the Ring-necked Pheasant within our local region is inconclusive in determining the viability of a known breeding population."

Respectfully,

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 4:56 PM Will Raup <hoaryredpoll@...> wrote:
We actually do.  It is called the breeding bird atlas.

There are no sustainable wild populations of Pheasants locally anymore.

Will Raup



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>
Date: 1/15/21 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Tom Lake <trlake7@...>
 

Hi Tristan,

I really like your examples. This academic inquiry is made richer for us by your logic.

As for Mountain lions, wow.... there is a beast that has an entirely different and very complex suite of requirements. 
They may be an even more enjoyable topic to discuss sometime---best wait until one of us "sees" one. 

P.S. Coincidentally, in the Hudson River Almanac this week we discussed why it can be ill-advised for scientists to use the word "never." 

Be well, stay well Tristan .... all of us have to secure our spots in the 2021 CBCs.

TOM


-----Original Message-----
From: emberiza_tristrami <tristanlowery@...>
To: Will Raup <Hoaryredpoll@...>
Cc: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>; John Kent <k2ent76@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 5:02 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Except we do have “real info”. According to maps available through the New York State Breeding Bird Atlas III portal on eBird, there were only three confirmed instances of Ring-necked Pheasant breeding in New York State in all of 2020 and none of these records are from the Hudson-Mohawk region (there is one record each from Kings County, Queens County, and Livingston County – the last one being the only upstate confirmation). I’m not a population biologist, but those numbers don’t seem to indicate a substantial breeding population in New York State, especially for a species that isn’t particularly difficult to detect. And all the other proof of Ring-necked Pheasants breeding this area thus far mentioned in this thread is anecdotal evidence from three, four – even five decades – ago.
 
Just because we can’t prove that Ring-necked Pheasants aren’t breeding in this area doesn’t mean that they are. I could use the same exact fallacious logic to argue that mountain lions exist in this area.

Tristan Lowery
Albany 

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 4:56 PM Will Raup <Hoaryredpoll@...> wrote:
We actually do.  It is called the breeding bird atlas.

There are no sustainable wild populations of Pheasants locally anymore.

Will Raup



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>
Date: 1/15/21 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Tristan Lowery
 

Except we do have “real info”. According to maps available through the New York State Breeding Bird Atlas III portal on eBird, there were only three confirmed instances of Ring-necked Pheasant breeding in New York State in all of 2020 and none of these records are from the Hudson-Mohawk region (there is one record each from Kings County, Queens County, and Livingston County – the last one being the only upstate confirmation). I’m not a population biologist, but those numbers don’t seem to indicate a substantial breeding population in New York State, especially for a species that isn’t particularly difficult to detect. And all the other proof of Ring-necked Pheasants breeding this area thus far mentioned in this thread is anecdotal evidence from three, four – even five decades – ago.

 

Just because we can’t prove that Ring-necked Pheasants aren’t breeding in this area doesn’t mean that they are. I could use the same exact fallacious logic to argue that mountain lions exist in this area.


Tristan Lowery

Albany 


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 4:56 PM Will Raup <Hoaryredpoll@...> wrote:
We actually do.  It is called the breeding bird atlas.

There are no sustainable wild populations of Pheasants locally anymore.

Will Raup



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>
Date: 1/15/21 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Will Raup
 

We actually do.  It is called the breeding bird atlas.

There are no sustainable wild populations of Pheasants locally anymore.

Will Raup



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Scott Varney <scottvarney1968@...>
Date: 1/15/21 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Scott Varney
 

I completely agree with Tom's sentiments on this topic. At best, we have no real info on "wild" breeding vs non-breeding populations.  They should be counted as similarly as Starlings.  

Scott Varney
Salem, NY

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 


Re: Pheasant

ConserveBirds
 

The area is closed to hunting at certain times when the owls may be present; I can’t recall the dates now.  It still bothers me that NYS does not give birders the opportunity to purchase a special annual bird stamp that would support conservation efforts for birds.  I have always purchased a duck stamp but with no way to specify that you are a birder, it is assumed that the fees all come from hunters.  Just my 2 cents.

Mona

 

From: Nancy Jane Kern [mailto:kernscot@...]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 2:47 PM
To: ConserveBirds <conservebirds@...>; 'Lindsey Duval' <lindsey.duval@...>; 'zach schwartz-weinstein' <zachsw@...>
Cc: 'Jeffrey Schoonmaker' <j.schoonmaker@...>; 'HMBirds' <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

Mona-

 

I remember this and also protested. I understand DEC and politics, but it made me uneasy to bird in the area and see hunters walking through. I believe they also deer hunt there too.

 

Nancy Kern

 

 

 


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of ConserveBirds <conservebirds@...>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 10:41 AM
To: 'Lindsey Duval' <lindsey.duval@...>; 'zach schwartz-weinstein' <zachsw@...>
Cc: 'Jeffrey Schoonmaker' <j.schoonmaker@...>; 'HMBirds' <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

Southern Adirondack Audubon protested the release of pheasants in this area when we heard of the plan.  Somehow releasing an alien introduced species for hunting in an area purchased and supposedly protected for an endangered native species seemed very counter productive.  DEC’s reasoning was that they had to keep the hunters happy and they wouldn’t make it through the winter.  However, pheasants are commonly seen now in Spring and Summer, long before the next group is released in the fall. So….?

 

Mona Bearor

Now in Stuart’s Draft Hwy, Staunton, VA

 

 

 

From: hmbirds@groups.io [mailto:hmbirds@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lindsey Duval
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

 

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:

I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:

Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.

As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

 

Jeff Schoonmaker

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774


Re: Pheasant

kernscot
 

Mona-

I remember this and also protested. I understand DEC and politics, but it made me uneasy to bird in the area and see hunters walking through. I believe they also deer hunt there too.

Nancy Kern




From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of ConserveBirds <conservebirds@...>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 10:41 AM
To: 'Lindsey Duval' <lindsey.duval@...>; 'zach schwartz-weinstein' <zachsw@...>
Cc: 'Jeffrey Schoonmaker' <j.schoonmaker@...>; 'HMBirds' <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 

Southern Adirondack Audubon protested the release of pheasants in this area when we heard of the plan.  Somehow releasing an alien introduced species for hunting in an area purchased and supposedly protected for an endangered native species seemed very counter productive.  DEC’s reasoning was that they had to keep the hunters happy and they wouldn’t make it through the winter.  However, pheasants are commonly seen now in Spring and Summer, long before the next group is released in the fall. So….?

 

Mona Bearor

Now in Stuart’s Draft Hwy, Staunton, VA

 

 

 

From: hmbirds@groups.io [mailto:hmbirds@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lindsey Duval
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

 

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

 

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:

I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:

Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.

As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

 

Jeff Schoonmaker

--

Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774


Juvenile Red Tail Hawk

Linda M Wheeler
 
Edited


-- I went over to Goldfoot Rd in Round Lake to see if I could view any White-winged Crossbills.  No luck with those, but I did see this young Red tail hawk looking around the area from a large tree right over the bike path!
Happy Birding!


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

kernscot
 

love this discussion. The only ring-necked pheasants in the Town of Austerlitz appear to come from the Austerlitz Club, a place that has raised several thousand pheasants a year for hunting, future breeding stock, and for food in past years. There are escapes that wander away, but our fox, hawk, and coyotes etc. usually get them.

I have seen no wild, established pheasants breeding in Columbia County. I do report them just for the record if they are away from buildings and established release areas. I think we should report them, with a note of explanation.

Nancy Kern

Austerlitz, NY
Columbia County






From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7@...>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 12:57 PM
To: richardpguthrie@... <richardpguthrie@...>; k2ent76@... <k2ent76@...>
Cc: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
Rich, et al.

My reply to Tristan....(in part)

Dear Tristan,
Are we 100% sure no one puts Pheasant on their land for reasons other than hunting?

The survivability question is one we hear over and over. Is there real sustained scientific data to support it. To me it seems to be some conjecture as to their native range vs. our winters. Ring-necked Pheasant are commonly (as common as their un-commonality allows) seen in places quit a ways from hunting preserves.

Nature is chock full of wildlife successfully adapting to introduced climates. For example we have records of pirapitinga (red-bellied pacu) a type of pihrana in the Hudson River that would be at home in the Amazon. Not to be argumentative, but just asking the question that perhaps someone has already answered.

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Guthrie <richardpguthrie@...>
To: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
Cc: HMBC Posts <hmbirds@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Too bad we didn't have an Atlas project or eBird back in the '70s and 80s. I can recall seeing broods of Ring-necked Pheasant chicks down in the Coxsackie flats on numerous occasions back then.

But since they were not native and hence not so note-worthy, they went, most often, not noted. 

Now, at least, we can document their status that may eventually be useful. 

Rich Guthrie

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:38 AM John Kent <k2ent76@...> wrote:
Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 



--
Richard Guthrie


Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

John Kent
 

The original question was about "countability", in the context of competitive listing. When considering whether a species you've seen is countable for ABA listing purposes, the first consideration is whether it's on the official state list. Ring-necked Pheasant is on the New York list long ago because it was established as a breeding species. But since then it declined a great deal, and in many areas where it previously bred it no longer does. I don't believe anyone has seen any newly fledged in the wild in this part of NY in recent memory. That would mean that it's not countable around here per the ABA rule interpretations below (from https://www.aba.org/aba-recording-rules-and-interpretations/ ) This is because these individuals aren't part of an established population.

(v) an individual of an introduced species may be counted only when part of, or straying from, a population that meets the first seven criteria of the ABA Checklist Committee’s Criteria for Determining Establishment of Exotics; ( https://www.aba.org/criteria-for-determining-establishment-of-exotics/ )

(vi) an individual of a reintroduced indigenous species may be counted if it is part of a population that has successfully hatched young in the wild or when it is not possible to reasonably separate the reintroduced individual from a wild-born individual;

Anyway, Tom, these rules are just meant to standardize competitive listing, I'm not vouching for their biological significance.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 1:06 PM, TOM LAKE wrote:
Dear HM-Birders, et al.

Here is an interesting, perhaps comparable, example among fishes: We import Grass carp, or White amur (Ctenopharyngodon idella) for the sole purpose of aquatic vegetation control. Once a pond or lake is "fixed," so to speak, we eradicate them (or try to)---rotenone rather than shoguns. But come fish survey or census time, we count the white amurs. I understand that might not be be apple-to-apples for bird counts.  (Good non-violent discussion; no storming the barricades!)

Tom Lake

-----Original Message-----
From: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 



Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Tom Lake <trlake7@...>
 

Dear HM-Birders, et al.

Here is an interesting, perhaps comparable, example among fishes: We import Grass carp, or White amur (Ctenopharyngodon idella) for the sole purpose of aquatic vegetation control. Once a pond or lake is "fixed," so to speak, we eradicate them (or try to)---rotenone rather than shoguns. But come fish survey or census time, we count the white amurs. I understand that might not be be apple-to-apples for bird counts.  (Good non-violent discussion; no storming the barricades!)

Tom Lake

-----Original Message-----
From: John Kent <k2ent76@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2021 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Bull's Birds of New York State, published in 1974 and updated in 1998, says that Ring-necked Pheasant bred widely in the Great Lakes Plain, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Hudson Valley and on Long Island. They declined severely in the 1940s, the recovered and reached a peak in the late 1960s. Since then, habitat loss and predation caused another decline. Starting around 1980, the state released many each year for hunting. The impact of the released birds on "wild" populations is negligible, as fewer than 5% survive to the following spring.

My understanding is that since this was written, they have been extirpated as breeders in the Hudson Valley.

John Kent
Selkirk

On 1/15/2021 9:05 AM, emberiza_tristrami wrote:
The difference is starlings aren't regularly restocked in the wild for hunting. It's not likely that pheasant populations would survive on their own in most, if not all of New York State without this intervention.

Tristan Lowery
Albany


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:59 AM Tom Lake via groups.io <trlake7=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Ring-necked Pheasant seems to be a sticker for some as to counting in CBCs.

We count Starlings. Is there a difference?

With fish we count carp.

With trees we count the London plane.

With reptiles we count Red-eared Sliders.

Am I missing something?

Tom Lake


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Mason <andymason@...>
To: hmbirds@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant

Our rule of thumb with pheasants on the NJ World Series of Birding was to hold a hand out toward it.  If the bird came toward you, don't count it; if it walked away, check it off.  Not terribly scientific!

Andy Mason


On 1/14/2021 6:33 PM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
Well, all Ring-necked pheasants in North America are descendents of artificially introduced birds, but the species is established and countable in New York.  For ABA purposes, this pheasant is probably not countable because it can reasonably be separated from wild, naturally occurring members of its species due to its location at a release site.  However, it can and should still be reported to eBird, where researchers can specifically search for introduced and exotic birds.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
So, are we not allowed to "count" them?  I was pretty excited to see one.  I'm embarrassed if everyone knows they are artificially introduced and therefore nothing to get excited about.


From: hmbirds@groups.io <hmbirds@groups.io> on behalf of Lindsey Duval <lindsey.duval@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 6:14 PM
To: zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...>
Cc: Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...>; HMBirds <hmbirds@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [hmbirds] Pheasant
 
EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from a source outside HVCC. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

Well look what I found, this link shows that the pheasants are released in the Washington County State Forest, which I presume to be that trail on Blackhouse Rd as our hotspot holds that same name, for youth hunts: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9349.html

I swear there used to be a release further up on Rt 41 in Kingsbury/Smith's Basin ages ago as well but that was word-of-mouth.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM zach schwartz-weinstein <zachsw@...> wrote:
I believe the state releases them there for hunters.  (Or so a ranger told me once when he saw me walking along the new trail and mistook my scope for a firearm.)

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Jeffrey Schoonmaker <j.schoonmaker@...> wrote:
Found a Ring-necked Pheasant walking across the front lawn of house #323 on Blackhouse Rd. at the F. E. Grslnds at 3:27 p.m. today.
As of 4:35 p.m., no Short-eared Owls were showing up for the 10 car loads of hopeful folks waiting in the Plum Rd. Theater parking area.

Jeff Schoonmaker
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774
--
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774

--
Andrew Mason
13 Boylston St.
Oneonta, NY  13820
(607) 652-2162
AndyMason@... 

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