Topics

Phenomenology of Spirit


Bill Hord
 

Stephen, not to deny that religion gives us a sense of the whole, but to
qualify in this sense: already in Chapter 1, experience gives us a sense of
the whole, and in fact experience of particulars give us this sense. (And
so particular religious experiences also give us this sense. This seems to
be true for Hegel in general even if an experience is "erroneous."). In my
view this view of Hegel's is connected to his holism (both ontologic and
epistemic): an object isn't itself with its relations, and knowledge of an
object isn't absolute without knowledge of the object's relations.

Bob, go here: https://groups.io/g/hegel .

Bill

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 4:05 AM 'Stephen Cowley'
stephen.cowley@... [hegel] <hegel@...> wrote:



Hi Bob,

On my reading of Chapter 7 of the Phenomenology, we already have a sense
of the whole in religion, so we are not groping blindly on the way uphill
guided by empirical observation alone (though religion is empirical in a
sense – a church service is visible and audible for example).

Please note, Kai Froeb moved the main Hegel discussion group onto .io
groups a few months ago. You should have been automatically subscribed.
Sometimes mails from the new groups end up in spam.

All the best
Stephen Cowley

*From:* robert fanelli robertfanelli2001@... [hegel]
*Sent:* Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:10 PM
*To:* Yahoogroups
*Cc:* Joe Colombo ; Jayne Fanelli ; chris fanelli
*Subject:* [hegel] Phenomenology of Spirit





*Paragraph # 138 (Force and Understanding)*



*Dear Hegel group,*



*Let me place this comment first for your consideration. I have been
offering what I consider an ongoing theme throughout my analysis of this
PhdG, and whoever among you actually reads these comments, may have
detected an interpretation of Hegel’s masterpiece as having a decided taste
of the empirical through his texts. Hegel was not a subjective idealist,
as most of you will agree. Rather, he was an absolute idealist, which is a
far cry from the subjective idealism of, for example, Berkeley, who
asserted that the only reality was within the mind of both man and God. An
absolute idealist is one who asserts ongoing concrete propositions (some of
which are confirmed by experience) in a dialectic development to higher
grades of cognition. Absolute is not taken in the super sensible mode nor
in the pure idealism mode. It means that our series of propositional
thoughts, as they are challenged and negated lead up to more meaningful
cognitive conclusions. The more developed and the more concrete, the more
absolute, they are. This is what I interpret is the meaning of what Hegel
is offering. We actually apply this method to our every day thinking and
our ordinary cognitive experiences. We are constantly thinking and
negating what we think are our incomplete thoughts. We look for more
reliable conclusions to our every day living and as Iris Murdoch says
below, “we should attempt to describe phenomena” and we should aim to stay
in the “lived world.” Hegel did indeed attempt to stay in such a world.*

* Iris Murdoch:*

*“Hegel is sometimes wrongly thought of as remote, airy, and metaphysical
in a purely pejorative sense of the word. He could more justly be
considered as the first great modern empiricist [I add in the spirit of
Kant’s transcendental idealism*]; a dialectical empiricist, as opposed to,
say, Hume who might be called a mechanistic empiricist. What Hegel teaches
us is that we should attempt to describe phenomena. That he cast the laws
governing phenomena in logical terms is neither here nor there as far as
the value of his method is concerned…What we are all working upon, it might
be said, is le monde vecu, the lived world, what is actually experienced,
thought of as itself being the real, and carrying its own truth criteria
with it.”*



* When you read my analysis below, please look for this continuing theme
of practical empirical references to what Hegel called, ‘the experience of
consciousness,’ which means the conceptual essence or conceptual structures
of what the Germans call experience itself, that is, Erfahrung. We should
also take note that the word, empirical comes from the Greek, empeiria,
which is directly translated as ‘thing experienced..’ If we don’t include
such a prevailing empirical theme for Hegel’s works, then what he offered
may not be worth more than a ‘hill of beans.’ This does not mean that Hegel
must only rely on experience for knowledge of things, rather, it means that
there must be somewhere along the rational line of reasoning, connections
to experience itself, which is the source of what we can know.*

*Enjoy.*

*Paragraph 138:*

*Force is self-reflective. One of its qualities is to be able to assume
the mental position of being alien or other to itself. Humans are able to
look outward and beyond themselves in their own dynamic ‘force’ of thinking
toward some kind of unity between themselves and their environment
(environment in the sense of Locke’s ‘what is out there’). The outside
force, so to speak, ‘shows itself to be as much a universal medium, as well
as a One, and in such a way that each of these forms at the same time
appears only as a vanishing moment.’ This means that as consciousness
structures the cognitive forms of being, these forms appear for just a
moment of time, as do all of the forms we structure in our every day
lives. We cannot capture and hold on to them. Proust is the master of
explaining this phenomenon. Force is fleeting, at this point. Force has
its momentary vicissitudes. In the next sentence, Hegel is once again
referring to the most profound problem of cognition, addressed by many
philosophers over the centuries; that of correspondence or nexus between
the ‘I’ and the ‘not I,’ which means between me and the universe. Such
correspondence includes that which is between ‘sensibility (sense data) and
understanding,’ between material content and thought. With Hegel, we have
an inadequate meaning at this point of what this correspondence indicates.
Hegel implies a duality, but he does not favor such duality. He
consistently offers mediation of such duality throughout his System, by
means of the force of the dialectic. Hegel calls this opposition or
duality ‘self -diremption.’ Force is torn apart within the cognitive
moment into a series of ‘two independent forces:’ Universality and
singularity, material content and conceptual content, sensibility and
understanding. The drama of consciousness’s pathway continues.
Consciousness strives to fine tune this pathway of experience. The ‘second
force’ is strictly conceptual. This ‘force is transformed into the same
reciprocal interchange of the determinateness’ of being itself. Such being
is only finite at this point in the Phenomenology.*

**Transcendental idealism-**TI knowledge is ideal rather than real and is
based on appearances not things in themselves-there is no causal leap
between the mind and things-a leap by the subject. [the only leap is
transcendental to such appearances and such a leap must be confirmed by
experience] *

**Transcendental realism**-TR knowledge permits the subject to be fully
cognizant of all limitations of the mind-the sensible world exists as thing
in itself. [Kant opposes]. [Such idealism is the gateway to the
transcendent, to the theocentric.]*



*Regards,*

*Bob Fanelli*


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Bill Hord
 

"an object isn't itself without its relations, and knowledge of an
object isn't absolute without knowledge of the object's relations"

with >> without

Bill

"Joyce is good. He is a good writer. People like him because he is incomprehensible and anybody can understand him." (Gertrude Stein)


This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly prohibited.
________________________________
From: hegel@groups.io <hegel@groups.io> on behalf of Bill Hord <billhord@...>
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 11:32 AM
To: hegel@... <hegel@...>; hegel@groups.io <hegel@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [hegel] Phenomenology of Spirit

Stephen, not to deny that religion gives us a sense of the whole, but to
qualify in this sense: already in Chapter 1, experience gives us a sense of
the whole, and in fact experience of particulars give us this sense. (And
so particular religious experiences also give us this sense. This seems to
be true for Hegel in general even if an experience is "erroneous."). In my
view this view of Hegel's is connected to his holism (both ontologic and
epistemic): an object isn't itself with its relations, and knowledge of an
object isn't absolute without knowledge of the object's relations.

Bob, go here: https://groups.io/g/hegel .

Bill

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 4:05 AM 'Stephen Cowley'
stephen.cowley@... [hegel] <hegel@...> wrote:



Hi Bob,

On my reading of Chapter 7 of the Phenomenology, we already have a sense
of the whole in religion, so we are not groping blindly on the way uphill
guided by empirical observation alone (though religion is empirical in a
sense – a church service is visible and audible for example).

Please note, Kai Froeb moved the main Hegel discussion group onto .io
groups a few months ago. You should have been automatically subscribed.
Sometimes mails from the new groups end up in spam.

All the best
Stephen Cowley

*From:* robert fanelli robertfanelli2001@... [hegel]
*Sent:* Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:10 PM
*To:* Yahoogroups
*Cc:* Joe Colombo ; Jayne Fanelli ; chris fanelli
*Subject:* [hegel] Phenomenology of Spirit





*Paragraph # 138 (Force and Understanding)*



*Dear Hegel group,*



*Let me place this comment first for your consideration. I have been
offering what I consider an ongoing theme throughout my analysis of this
PhdG, and whoever among you actually reads these comments, may have
detected an interpretation of Hegel’s masterpiece as having a decided taste
of the empirical through his texts. Hegel was not a subjective idealist,
as most of you will agree. Rather, he was an absolute idealist, which is a
far cry from the subjective idealism of, for example, Berkeley, who
asserted that the only reality was within the mind of both man and God. An
absolute idealist is one who asserts ongoing concrete propositions (some of
which are confirmed by experience) in a dialectic development to higher
grades of cognition. Absolute is not taken in the super sensible mode nor
in the pure idealism mode. It means that our series of propositional
thoughts, as they are challenged and negated lead up to more meaningful
cognitive conclusions. The more developed and the more concrete, the more
absolute, they are. This is what I interpret is the meaning of what Hegel
is offering. We actually apply this method to our every day thinking and
our ordinary cognitive experiences. We are constantly thinking and
negating what we think are our incomplete thoughts. We look for more
reliable conclusions to our every day living and as Iris Murdoch says
below, “we should attempt to describe phenomena” and we should aim to stay
in the “lived world.” Hegel did indeed attempt to stay in such a world.*

* Iris Murdoch:*

*“Hegel is sometimes wrongly thought of as remote, airy, and metaphysical
in a purely pejorative sense of the word. He could more justly be
considered as the first great modern empiricist [I add in the spirit of
Kant’s transcendental idealism*]; a dialectical empiricist, as opposed to,
say, Hume who might be called a mechanistic empiricist. What Hegel teaches
us is that we should attempt to describe phenomena. That he cast the laws
governing phenomena in logical terms is neither here nor there as far as
the value of his method is concerned…What we are all working upon, it might
be said, is le monde vecu, the lived world, what is actually experienced,
thought of as itself being the real, and carrying its own truth criteria
with it.”*



* When you read my analysis below, please look for this continuing theme
of practical empirical references to what Hegel called, ‘the experience of
consciousness,’ which means the conceptual essence or conceptual structures
of what the Germans call experience itself, that is, Erfahrung. We should
also take note that the word, empirical comes from the Greek, empeiria,
which is directly translated as ‘thing experienced..’ If we don’t include
such a prevailing empirical theme for Hegel’s works, then what he offered
may not be worth more than a ‘hill of beans.’ This does not mean that Hegel
must only rely on experience for knowledge of things, rather, it means that
there must be somewhere along the rational line of reasoning, connections
to experience itself, which is the source of what we can know.*

*Enjoy.*

*Paragraph 138:*

*Force is self-reflective. One of its qualities is to be able to assume
the mental position of being alien or other to itself. Humans are able to
look outward and beyond themselves in their own dynamic ‘force’ of thinking
toward some kind of unity between themselves and their environment
(environment in the sense of Locke’s ‘what is out there’). The outside
force, so to speak, ‘shows itself to be as much a universal medium, as well
as a One, and in such a way that each of these forms at the same time
appears only as a vanishing moment.’ This means that as consciousness
structures the cognitive forms of being, these forms appear for just a
moment of time, as do all of the forms we structure in our every day
lives. We cannot capture and hold on to them. Proust is the master of
explaining this phenomenon. Force is fleeting, at this point. Force has
its momentary vicissitudes. In the next sentence, Hegel is once again
referring to the most profound problem of cognition, addressed by many
philosophers over the centuries; that of correspondence or nexus between
the ‘I’ and the ‘not I,’ which means between me and the universe. Such
correspondence includes that which is between ‘sensibility (sense data) and
understanding,’ between material content and thought. With Hegel, we have
an inadequate meaning at this point of what this correspondence indicates.
Hegel implies a duality, but he does not favor such duality. He
consistently offers mediation of such duality throughout his System, by
means of the force of the dialectic. Hegel calls this opposition or
duality ‘self -diremption.’ Force is torn apart within the cognitive
moment into a series of ‘two independent forces:’ Universality and
singularity, material content and conceptual content, sensibility and
understanding. The drama of consciousness’s pathway continues.
Consciousness strives to fine tune this pathway of experience. The ‘second
force’ is strictly conceptual. This ‘force is transformed into the same
reciprocal interchange of the determinateness’ of being itself. Such being
is only finite at this point in the Phenomenology.*

**Transcendental idealism-**TI knowledge is ideal rather than real and is
based on appearances not things in themselves-there is no causal leap
between the mind and things-a leap by the subject. [the only leap is
transcendental to such appearances and such a leap must be confirmed by
experience] *

**Transcendental realism**-TR knowledge permits the subject to be fully
cognizant of all limitations of the mind-the sensible world exists as thing
in itself. [Kant opposes]. [Such idealism is the gateway to the
transcendent, to the theocentric.]*



*Regards,*

*Bob Fanelli*


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Particpants are expected to show a respectfull and scientific attitude
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scientific standards apply.

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that is the copyright of the mails belongs to the author and hegel.net.
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