3.50.386 auto-update ...


Bob
 



Johann was a wise man. In todays wired world, he may well have said "Life is too short to drink bad wine, or wait for ADIF to make public their decision as to what exactly FT4 is - a mode or submode". My buddy Julian Assange tells me it has been decreed that FT4 is a submode of MFSK. A closely held secret apparently. Pure speculation on my part, but I suggest they are reluctant to make any public proclamation as it would be a tacit acknowledgement that they screwed up big time when FT8 was given the much coveted mode status ... but wait, the subterfuge has just begun ... how will they undo all the other incorrectly assigned modes/submodes and maintain even a modicum of credibility? ... the spin doctors will be out in force ...


Based on the information provided by Julian (he hasn't let me down yet), I will preempt any formal announcement by ADIF, and release Logger32 v3.50.386 on Monday. SeventyThree(s).


Gary Hinson
 

😊

 

Thanks, Bob, for second-guessing the ADIF-meisters …. and, well, for everything really.

 

I wonder how many L32 users appreciate just how much painstaking work goes on behind the scenes to maintain and enhance the software, fix bugs, tweak stuff and all for free. 

 

You’re “awesome” as we Kiwis say.

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

 

From: hamlogger@groups.io <hamlogger@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: 19 May 2019 14:17
To: hamlogger@groups.io
Subject: [hamlogger] 3.50.386 auto-update ...

 

 

Johann was a wise man. In todays wired world, he may well have said "Life is too short to drink bad wine, or wait for ADIF to make public their decision as to what exactly FT4 is - a mode or submode". My buddy Julian Assange tells me it has been decreed that FT4 is a submode of MFSK. A closely held secret apparently. Pure speculation on my part, but I suggest they are reluctant to make any public proclamation as it would be a tacit acknowledgement that they screwed up big time when FT8 was given the much coveted mode status ... but wait, the subterfuge has just begun ... how will they undo all the other incorrectly assigned modes/submodes and maintain even a modicum of credibility? ... the spin doctors will be out in force ...

 

Based on the information provided by Julian (he hasn't let me down yet), I will preempt any formal announcement by ADIF, and release Logger32 v3.50.386 on Monday. SeventyThree(s).


Barry GM4GIF
 

Gary/Bob
We certainly do appreciate it, however we grownups leave the amusing comments to the ‘Chattering Classes’ hi
Keep quaffing the Grouse Bob, helps my pension pot !!!

73
Barry / gm4gif


On Sun, 19 May 2019 at 06:55, Gary Hinson <Gary@...> wrote:

😊

 

Thanks, Bob, for second-guessing the ADIF-meisters …. and, well, for everything really.

 

I wonder how many L32 users appreciate just how much painstaking work goes on behind the scenes to maintain and enhance the software, fix bugs, tweak stuff and all for free. 

 

You’re “awesome” as we Kiwis say.

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

 

From: hamlogger@groups.io <hamlogger@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: 19 May 2019 14:17
To: hamlogger@groups.io
Subject: [hamlogger] 3.50.386 auto-update ...

 

 

Johann was a wise man. In todays wired world, he may well have said "Life is too short to drink bad wine, or wait for ADIF to make public their decision as to what exactly FT4 is - a mode or submode". My buddy Julian Assange tells me it has been decreed that FT4 is a submode of MFSK. A closely held secret apparently. Pure speculation on my part, but I suggest they are reluctant to make any public proclamation as it would be a tacit acknowledgement that they screwed up big time when FT8 was given the much coveted mode status ... but wait, the subterfuge has just begun ... how will they undo all the other incorrectly assigned modes/submodes and maintain even a modicum of credibility? ... the spin doctors will be out in force ...

 

Based on the information provided by Julian (he hasn't let me down yet), I will preempt any formal announcement by ADIF, and release Logger32 v3.50.386 on Monday. SeventyThree(s).

--
Air 2


Ken McVie <kenmc@...>
 

Agree!!!

73
Ken ZL4NR

On 19/05/2019 5:55 PM, Gary Hinson wrote:

😊

 

Thanks, Bob, for second-guessing the ADIF-meisters …. and, well, for everything really.

 

I wonder how many L32 users appreciate just how much painstaking work goes on behind the scenes to maintain and enhance the software, fix bugs, tweak stuff and all for free. 

 

You’re “awesome” as we Kiwis say.

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

 

From: hamlogger@groups.io <hamlogger@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: 19 May 2019 14:17
To: hamlogger@groups.io
Subject: [hamlogger] 3.50.386 auto-update ...

 

 

Johann was a wise man. In todays wired world, he may well have said "Life is too short to drink bad wine, or wait for ADIF to make public their decision as to what exactly FT4 is - a mode or submode". My buddy Julian Assange tells me it has been decreed that FT4 is a submode of MFSK. A closely held secret apparently. Pure speculation on my part, but I suggest they are reluctant to make any public proclamation as it would be a tacit acknowledgement that they screwed up big time when FT8 was given the much coveted mode status ... but wait, the subterfuge has just begun ... how will they undo all the other incorrectly assigned modes/submodes and maintain even a modicum of credibility? ... the spin doctors will be out in force ...

 

Based on the information provided by Julian (he hasn't let me down yet), I will preempt any formal announcement by ADIF, and release Logger32 v3.50.386 on Monday. SeventyThree(s).



Bob
 



Barry, another quotable quote for you. I am a great fan of Oscar Wilde, an while he is probably not the originator of the quote, I do my best to not take life seriously (especially where ham radio is concerned). SeventyThree(s).

On May 19, 2019 at 3:59 AM Barry Lyons <gm4gif@...> wrote:

Gary/Bob
We certainly do appreciate it, however we grownups leave the amusing comments to the ‘Chattering Classes’ hi
Keep quaffing the Grouse Bob, helps my pension pot !!!

73
Barry / gm4gif


On Sun, 19 May 2019 at 06:55, Gary Hinson < Gary@...> wrote:

😊

 

Thanks, Bob, for second-guessing the ADIF-meisters …. and, well, for everything really.

 

I wonder how many L32 users appreciate just how much painstaking work goes on behind the scenes to maintain and enhance the software, fix bugs, tweak stuff and all for free. 

 

You’re “awesome” as we Kiwis say.

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

 

From: hamlogger@groups.io <hamlogger@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: 19 May 2019 14:17
To: hamlogger@groups.io
Subject: [hamlogger] 3.50.386 auto-update ...

 

 

Johann was a wise man. In todays wired world, he may well have said "Life is too short to drink bad wine, or wait for ADIF to make public their decision as to what exactly FT4 is - a mode or submode". My buddy Julian Assange tells me it has been decreed that FT4 is a submode of MFSK. A closely held secret apparently. Pure speculation on my part, but I suggest they are reluctant to make any public proclamation as it would be a tacit acknowledgement that they screwed up big time when FT8 was given the much coveted mode status ... but wait, the subterfuge has just begun ... how will they undo all the other incorrectly assigned modes/submodes and maintain even a modicum of credibility? ... the spin doctors will be out in force ...

 

Based on the information provided by Julian (he hasn't let me down yet), I will preempt any formal announcement by ADIF, and release Logger32 v3.50.386 on Monday. SeventyThree(s).

 


 

 

--
Air 2


Barry GM4GIF
 

In total agreement with that one Bob. Now, where’s my fishing gear 👍

On Sun, 19 May 2019 at 11:37, Bob <k4cy@...> wrote:



Barry, another quotable quote for you. I am a great fan of Oscar Wilde, an while he is probably not the originator of the quote, I do my best to not take life seriously (especially where ham radio is concerned). SeventyThree(s).

On May 19, 2019 at 3:59 AM Barry Lyons <gm4gif@...> wrote:

Gary/Bob
We certainly do appreciate it, however we grownups leave the amusing comments to the ‘Chattering Classes’ hi
Keep quaffing the Grouse Bob, helps my pension pot !!!

73
Barry / gm4gif


On Sun, 19 May 2019 at 06:55, Gary Hinson < Gary@...> wrote:

😊

 

Thanks, Bob, for second-guessing the ADIF-meisters …. and, well, for everything really.

 

I wonder how many L32 users appreciate just how much painstaking work goes on behind the scenes to maintain and enhance the software, fix bugs, tweak stuff and all for free. 

 

You’re “awesome” as we Kiwis say.

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

 

From: hamlogger@groups.io <hamlogger@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: 19 May 2019 14:17
To: hamlogger@groups.io
Subject: [hamlogger] 3.50.386 auto-update ...

 

 

Johann was a wise man. In todays wired world, he may well have said "Life is too short to drink bad wine, or wait for ADIF to make public their decision as to what exactly FT4 is - a mode or submode". My buddy Julian Assange tells me it has been decreed that FT4 is a submode of MFSK. A closely held secret apparently. Pure speculation on my part, but I suggest they are reluctant to make any public proclamation as it would be a tacit acknowledgement that they screwed up big time when FT8 was given the much coveted mode status ... but wait, the subterfuge has just begun ... how will they undo all the other incorrectly assigned modes/submodes and maintain even a modicum of credibility? ... the spin doctors will be out in force ...

 

Based on the information provided by Julian (he hasn't let me down yet), I will preempt any formal announcement by ADIF, and release Logger32 v3.50.386 on Monday. SeventyThree(s).

 


 

 

--
Air 2

--
Air 2


richard Quick <rich.w4rq@...>
 

FT4 is different than FT8, JT65 etc. thus the designation is different.
I’m no guru, but where FT8 switches frequencies, FT 4 sweeps from frequency to frequency. Someone else can describe it better than I, I’m sure. But they are different. 

Rich - W4RQ


Bob
 

Rich, draw your own conclusions. SeventyThree(s).


From the FT4_protocol.pdf document at https://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx.html


Modulation uses 4-tone frequency-shift keying at approximately 23.4 baud, with tones separated by the baud rate


From the Brief Description of the FT8 Protocol at http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/ft8.txt


The mode name "FT8" stands for "Franke and Taylor, 8-FSK modulation".

On May 19, 2019 at 8:25 AM "richard Quick via Groups.Io" <rich.w4rq@...> wrote:

FT4 is different than FT8, JT65 etc. thus the designation is different.
I’m no guru, but where FT8 switches frequencies, FT 4 sweeps from frequency to frequency. Someone else can describe it better than I, I’m sure. But they are different. 

Rich - W4RQ


 


 


Graham
 

Good guess - ref. ADIF 3.1.0 http://adif.org.uk/310/ADIF_310.htm

So what should be done with the modes/submodes?
  • Just make FT8 a submode of MFSK but leave others as they are?
  • Re-work various mode/submode relationships as well as FT8?
  • Nothing?
  • Something else?

73 de Graham G3ZOD


Bob
 

Graham, I assume this is a rhetorical question for K4CY (see NOTE 1 below), but it may be of great interest to others on the reflector and will hopefully stimulate meaningful/constructive debate.


Jim <W5IFP> the Logger32 representative with the ADIF keepers will, without my prompting, confirm that if the transmission mode is FSK, with more than two tones, it is MFSK. Why is it necessary to enumerate the number of tones? No voodoo involved. If you have to have submodes, then make them real. If you don't have to have submodes, then FT4 and FT8 are MFSK protocols.


Let's take the example of the mode SSB and its two submodes upper and lower. Is it necessary to enumerate upper and lower? They are indeed single sidebands, are there others? There is VSB (Vestigal Sideband) but it is not a single sideband, so it doesn't enter the discussion. Take the case of CW. We have the mode CW and a submode PCW <explicative deleted> <explicative deleted> but other than cowtowing to a splinter group what is the difference? Can I lobby for a 'bug/vibroplex' submode? How about a 'straight key' submode? Having mentioned 'straightt key' mode, I would be remiss if I did not ask for a 'gay key' mode?


Good luck, and despite my never ending criticism of the ADIF members decisions, y'all make a VERY valuable contribution (most of the time) to our hobby that is on an inexorable death spiral. Just try to get out in the sunshine and smell the roses a little more often. SeventyThree(s).


NOTE 1: Only once have I communicated directly with the keepers of ADIF. Coincidentally (well, maybe not) it was when FT8 was about to be decreed a mode. With 20/20 hindsight, I should have kept my fucking mouth shut. I still walk with a limp, and still have to apply liberal doses of Preparation H twice daily. See: https://www.preparationh.com/

On May 21, 2019 at 9:38 PM "Graham via Groups.Io" <grahamg3zod@...> wrote:

Good guess - ref. ADIF 3.1.0 http://adif.org.uk/310/ADIF_310.htm

So what should be done with the modes/submodes?
  • Just make FT8 a submode of MFSK but leave others as they are?
  • Re-work various mode/submode relationships as well as FT8?
  • Nothing?
  • Something else?

73 de Graham G3ZOD


Graham
 

Oops - numbering scheme went awry - trying again:

It's a real question and not rhetorical.  A slightly more comprehensive choice is:

[1] Make FT8 a submode of MFSK but leave everything else as it is so that at least FT4 and FT8 are consistent.
[2] Re-work various mode/submode relationships as well as FT8 into a more acceptable mode/submode structure.
[3] Deprecate submode and move everything back to mode.
[4] Nothing.
[5] Something else.

It looks set to come up now that 3.1.0 has been released.

[1], [2], and [3] would require changes to most applications and likely messy ones since 3.1.0 and earlier versions of mode/submode would still be produced by earlier versions of software.

[1] and [4] would leave the majority of complaints about mode/submode unaddressed and also continue extending the time required to settle how a new item is to be added to mode/submode.

[2] would reduce the complaints but I'm not convinced would necessarily end the debates about adding new items.

[3] would speed things up since the choice that causes all the problems would no longer be there.

73 de Graham G3ZOD


Gary Hinson
 

There are numerous partially contiguous sets of modes and protocols e.g.

  • Modern, ancient, legacy, cutting-edge, futuristic
  • Machine generated, man-generated, half-n-half, computerised, indeterminate
  • Auto, manual, semi-auto, semi-manual, womanual
  • Point-to-point, multicast, broadcast, webcast, typecast
  • Ligtning, fast, medium, slow, glacial, tectonic
  • Ancient modulation, silly sideband, continuous work, fun time and other ABMs (acronym-based modes)
  • Synchronous, a-synch-chronous, doubled, trebled …
  • Digital, analog, hexadecimal, dodecahedral
  • Gaussian, Newtonian, Hertzian
  • Simplex, duplex, half-duplex, three-and-seven-twelths-duplex
  • Cross-band, cross-mode, cross-to-bear, cross-it-off-the-list
  • Satellite, repeater, repeater, EME, MS, F2, D, aircraft scatter, Es, un-Es
  • Split, merged, coincident, rock-bound, tuning high-to-low drifting and KW2000A
  • Minimalist, contest, rag-chew, brag, DX, DXpedition, rant
  • Remote, local, at a friend’s place, down the club
  • Up a mountain, in a park, in the garden, on a plane, in a car, on a bus, underground, overground, Wombling free
  • Mobile, pedestrian, fixed, sliding sideways
  • Good, bad, indifferent
  • Open source, developmental, commercial, public domain, experimental, homebrew
  • Serious, fun, high, drunk, intense
  • Continuous, in ter mit tent
  • FEC, ARQ, ACK-NACK PaddyWack
  • Internet-assisted, Internet-enabled, Internet-facilitated, Internet-shy
  • Authorized, unauthorized, tolerated, awaiting classification
  • Wideband, midband, narrowband, rubber band
  • Monomode, multimode, mixed mode, a la mode
  • Others yet to be invented, named, renamed, nicknamed, dropped, rediscovered, reinvented, lost

 

Even the pros have trouble with this, hence the ITU’s “A1A” business and “20K0 F3E” (I kid you not – see Wikipedia).

 

Poor Bob!

 

73
Gary  ZL2iFB

 

 

From: hamlogger@groups.io <hamlogger@groups.io> On Behalf Of Graham via Groups.Io
Sent: 22 May 2019 16:43
To: hamlogger@groups.io
Subject: Re: [hamlogger] 3.50.386 auto-update ...

 

It's a real question and not rhetorical.  A slightly more comprehensive choice is:

[1] Make FT8 a submode of MFSK but leave everything else as it is so that at least FT4 and FT8 are consistent.
[2] Re-work various mode/submode relationships as well as FT8 into a more acceptable mode/submode structure.
[3] Deprecate submode and move everything back to mode.[4] Nothing.
[5] Something else.
It looks set to come up now that 3.1.0 has been released.

[1], [2], and [3] would require changes to most applications and likely messy ones since 3.1.0 and earlier versions of mode/submode would still be produced by earlier versions of software.
[2] and [4] would leave the complaints about mode/submode unaddressed and also continue extending the time required to settle how a new item is to be added to mode/submode.

[2] would speed things up since the choice that causes all the problems would no longer be there.
[3] would reduce the complaints but I'm not convinced would necessarily end the debates about adding new items.

73 de Graham G3ZOD