LOTW Snares


Pete Smith <n4zr@...>
 

I am just learning this, but it appears to me that LOTW does a couple of things that trip up Logger32.  I don't know whether this is up to the LOTW or the Logger32 authors to fix, but here they are, for the record:

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, which were made before some date, are reported as having occurred on January 1 of the correct year, not the actual date.  For example, my one and only QSO with Brunei was made on May 2, 1980 on 15M.  LOTW dates it as 1-1-1980, and gives me credit for Mixed, CW and 15M.  Logger 32 does not accept the 1-1-80 date, or any others of the 1-1-[year] date format.

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, where the first QSO was made before some (even earlier?) date, are reporteded by LOTW only by DXCC number, even if there were many subsequent QSOs confirmed on LOTW with that entity.  As an example, my Alaska DXCC credit is reported by LOTW only as "006."  Of course, Logger 32 has no way to handle this because of the lack of callsign, date and time.

Are these known issues (I can't imagine that they are not)? Any planned fixes?

-- 

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster.


Tom Wylie
 

Just an observation. I didnt start my digital log book until 1992. All QSOs previous to that date were on paper logs and all DXCC applications were on paper QSLs. LOTW doesnt know these QSOs exist, unless of course I type my old log books in, and I have no intention of doing that. In addition I would not be credited with a confirmation unless the other person I worked also uploaded their log to LOTW.

I have associated my DXCC record with my LOTW account, so my confirmed totals are correct but in some instances - Crozet for example, LOTW does not know the details of my QSOs with Crozet as I have never typed them into my digital log and loaded them up to LOTW, yet my totals are correct because DXCC does have a record of my earlier paper submissions.

I think people forget that LOTW is ONLY a log book, an electronic one at that, and unless the person you worked also uploads, you will never get a matching confirmation. Cant say for certain, but I'm sure you can manipulate the date format within Logger 32 to make it show anything you want.

Likewise Logger 32. It is only an electronic log book and is only as good as the date you type in. GIGO comes to mind. Logbook does have the facility of creating different tables like certain awards to allow you to claim such awards, and for telling you if you have worked a station before etc

I hve found problems in the past by trying to assimilate Logger 32 with Clublog and LOTW and after a year of uploading, downloading , synchronising etc, nothing matched. Now I pay scant attention to Clublog as for comparing it with MY log which is in Logger 32.

I manually upload to LOTW and manually download an ADIF file from LOTW then manually synchronise that with my Logger LogBook. Since I started doing that I have had no problems whatsoever.

To foul things up manually is easy, but to really screw things up, you need a computer. I am approaching my 73rd year and have come to the conclusion that the KISS approach gives me less headaches.



Tom
GM4FDM

On 26/10/2018 14:11, Pete Smith wrote:
I am just learning this, but it appears to me that LOTW does a couple of things that trip up Logger32.  I don't know whether this is up to the LOTW or the Logger32 authors to fix, but here they are, for the record:
QSOs that are counted for DXCC, which were made before some date, are reported as having occurred on January 1 of the correct year, not the actual date.  For example, my one and only QSO with Brunei was made on May 2, 1980 on 15M.  LOTW dates it as 1-1-1980, and gives me credit for Mixed, CW and 15M.  Logger 32 does not accept the 1-1-80 date, or any others of the 1-1-[year] date format.
QSOs that are counted for DXCC, where the first QSO was made before some (even earlier?) date, are reporteded by LOTW only by DXCC number, even if there were many subsequent QSOs confirmed on LOTW with that entity. As an example, my Alaska DXCC credit is reported by LOTW only as "006." Of course, Logger 32 has no way to handle this because of the lack of callsign, date and time.
Are these known issues (I can't imagine that they are not)? Any planned fixes?


Gerry VE6LB
 

Pete
Before a certain  date DXCC records did not include dates. I had to re-submit my old cards to get the records into sync.

73, Gerry  VE6LB

On Oct 26, 2018, at 7:11 AM, Pete Smith <n4zr@...> wrote:

I am just learning this, but it appears to me that LOTW does a couple of things that trip up Logger32.  I don't know whether this is up to the LOTW or the Logger32 authors to fix, but here they are, for the record:

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, which were made before some date, are reported as having occurred on January 1 of the correct year, not the actual date.  For example, my one and only QSO with Brunei was made on May 2, 1980 on 15M.  LOTW dates it as 1-1-1980, and gives me credit for Mixed, CW and 15M.  Logger 32 does not accept the 1-1-80 date, or any others of the 1-1-[year] date format.

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, where the first QSO was made before some (even earlier?) date, are reporteded by LOTW only by DXCC number, even if there were many subsequent QSOs confirmed on LOTW with that entity.  As an example, my Alaska DXCC credit is reported by LOTW only as "006."  Of course, Logger 32 has no way to handle this because of the lack of callsign, date and time.

Are these known issues (I can't imagine that they are not)? Any planned fixes?

--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.


Dan Atchison
 

Just talked to my good friend and fellow PVRCer, K4CIA.  He's an ARRL Card Checker and I asked him about LOTW using country numbers.  He said that if the confirmed QSO (even granted) is old (he doesn't know the exact date) that before they went computerized DXCC listed only countries confirmed, not individual QSO's.  There would be NO date nor callsign associated with it.

On 10/26/2018 9:11 AM, Pete Smith wrote:

I am just learning this, but it appears to me that LOTW does a couple of things that trip up Logger32.  I don't know whether this is up to the LOTW or the Logger32 authors to fix, but here they are, for the record:

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, which were made before some date, are reported as having occurred on January 1 of the correct year, not the actual date.  For example, my one and only QSO with Brunei was made on May 2, 1980 on 15M.  LOTW dates it as 1-1-1980, and gives me credit for Mixed, CW and 15M.  Logger 32 does not accept the 1-1-80 date, or any others of the 1-1-[year] date format.

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, where the first QSO was made before some (even earlier?) date, are reporteded by LOTW only by DXCC number, even if there were many subsequent QSOs confirmed on LOTW with that entity.  As an example, my Alaska DXCC credit is reported by LOTW only as "006."  Of course, Logger 32 has no way to handle this because of the lack of callsign, date and time.

Are these known issues (I can't imagine that they are not)? Any planned fixes?

-- 

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster.


Dan Atchison
 

Sorry, meant to be privately sent.

On 10/26/2018 12:39 PM, Dan Atchison via Groups.Io wrote:
Just talked to my good friend and fellow PVRCer, K4CIA.  He's an ARRL Card Checker and I asked him about LOTW using country numbers.  He said that if the confirmed QSO (even granted) is old (he doesn't know the exact date) that before they went computerized DXCC listed only countries confirmed, not individual QSO's.  There would be NO date nor callsign associated with it.

On 10/26/2018 9:11 AM, Pete Smith wrote:

I am just learning this, but it appears to me that LOTW does a couple of things that trip up Logger32.  I don't know whether this is up to the LOTW or the Logger32 authors to fix, but here they are, for the record:

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, which were made before some date, are reported as having occurred on January 1 of the correct year, not the actual date.  For example, my one and only QSO with Brunei was made on May 2, 1980 on 15M.  LOTW dates it as 1-1-1980, and gives me credit for Mixed, CW and 15M.  Logger 32 does not accept the 1-1-80 date, or any others of the 1-1-[year] date format.

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, where the first QSO was made before some (even earlier?) date, are reporteded by LOTW only by DXCC number, even if there were many subsequent QSOs confirmed on LOTW with that entity.  As an example, my Alaska DXCC credit is reported by LOTW only as "006."  Of course, Logger 32 has no way to handle this because of the lack of callsign, date and time.

Are these known issues (I can't imagine that they are not)? Any planned fixes?

-- 

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster.



Gary Hinson
 

> QSOs that are counted for DXCC, which were made before some date, are reported as having occurred on January 1 of the correct year, not the actual date.  For example, my one and only QSO with Brunei was made on May 2, 1980 on 15M.  LOTW dates it as 1-1-1980, and gives me credit for Mixed, CW and 15M.  Logger 32 does not accept the 1-1-80 date, or any others of the 1-1-[year] date format.

Yes, if no QSO date was originally recorded in the DXCC paperwork, the system faked a date when the info was computerized in order to complete the record since date is a key field.  Presumably the process was clever enough to fake a date when the country in question was valid for DXCC purposes, so that any subsequent integrity checks won’t reject the record (once a QSO is formally accepted for DXCC, it’s almost impossible to disallow or delete it from the system as that would create database integrity issues).  The faked date is very unlikely to be the actual date of the QSO, so it won’t match with your logbook, electronic log or QSL card … but if that concerns you, I gather you can resubmit the card for checking and correction of the records.

> QSOs that are counted for DXCC, where the first QSO was made before some (even earlier?) date, are reporteded by LOTW only by DXCC number, even if there were many subsequent QSOs confirmed on LOTW with that entity.  As an example, my Alaska DXCC credit is reported by LOTW only as "006."  Of course, Logger 32 has no way to handle this because of the lack of callsign, date and time.

In the very early days of the DXCC award scheme, things were done manually and, as a consequence, corners were cut and errors were made.   As the scheme grew in stature and popularity, the rules and processes were refined and tightened-up and that process continues today (e.g. the recent situation with one of the Pacific islands being removed then reinstated on the DXCC list, and Kosovo being added). 

The legacy issues from old, incomplete, inaccurate and in some cases invalid records could be systematically addressed and resolved … but why bother?  It would be hard work, disruptive with little benefit.  At the end of the day, it’s just a hobby, and the DXCC is widely acknowledged as a fair, credible and valuable award scheme.  Almost everyone involved in DXCC is a volunteer doing the best they can with limited resources.  The DXCC award is more than merely ‘good enough’ in my opinion, but then I’m a keen DXer, ARRL and DXCC member and card checker so clearly I’m biased!  I have no issue with people who don’t value DXCC, or who prefer other award schemes. 

> Are these known issues (I can't imagine that they are not)? Any planned fixes?

Yes … and … no, at least not in the sense of people planning to fix the issues for us.

You can ‘fix’ the issues yourself in Logger32 by meddling with the data in your log e.g. putting in the actual dates of your awarded QSOs and the correct DXCC country names (at the times of the QSOs), using info from the original paper logs and QSL cards plus the historical notes to the official DXCC country list.   Your log is yours to play with as you wish.  If for some reason you can’t make a certain change in Logger32, you can always meddle with the ADIF version of your log in a simple editor, then import it into a fresh logbook, assuming it scrapes through the import validation routines.

I believe you can re-submit old QSL cards for checking and updating your records in the DXCC and LoTW systems if that really matters to you.  Contact the DXCC Desk at ARRL HQ for advice.

You can try to persuade the DXCC and LoTW sysadmins to meddle with the IT systems and the data to correct these and other issues, but be prepared for failure since they have broader responsibilities and many other things on their plates already!  They are well aware of the issues but their hands are tied, not least by ARRL’s policies in this area.

Best of all, you can carry on working DX, making and hopefully getting confirmations of additional QSOs with Brunei for example Pete, to be able to demonstrate to anyone who bothers to ask that, yes, you really have contacted them, and here’s the proof! 

We can even try to make QSOs, today, with those parts of the world that no longer qualify as DXCC countries under the current rules … which might be a fun challenge for some at the top of Honor Roll!  The total all-time historical country count for DXCC is substantially more than the current 341 – something approaching 400 I guess? 

73
Gary  ZL2iFB


n5kd
 

Pete……….. this may interest Margeret as well……

 

I’ve had a look back as some of my earliest QSOs that are confirmed on LoTW and the dates are correct going back to the later 70’s.

 

In the Logger32 folder is a program called ARRLScraper.exe. This will download everything from ARRL and allow you to synch your log to them. You can even reconcile date of callsigns that were busted when ARRL hand typed your cards into their computers.

 

Somebody else wrote this, probably ZL2IFB, but here are the notes I have kept…...

 

 

1.       Make a just-in-case log backup and keep it safe

 

2.       Did you make a backup?  If not, go back one step and pay more attention

 

3.       Check your DXCC report in Logger32 and note the paucity of granted blobs

 

4.       Find the ARRL Scraper program in your Logger32 program directory and run it

 

5.       Enter your username and password for the LoTW site to get it to login and (very slowly) capture all the available info from the DXCC records via the LoTW site. Do not check "Play without paying".

 

6.       In Logger32, go to Awards -> QSL update for DXCC/IOTA awards

 

7.       Click Update from ARRL file menu option to start the updaterer

 

8.       As it runs, the program keeps a note of those QSLs that it cannot match to your QSOs

 

9.       When it has run, you have the chance to ‘correct’ your log so that the mismatched QSOs will then magically match – follow the prompts

 

10.   Having ‘corrected’ your log, run the updaterer again and this time it should complete with no errors

 

11.   Check the DXCC report, see a vast number of granted blobs, and celebrate in the appropriate manner

 

 

If your logs are already messed up, it may be a bit harder to get back.

 

73’ Pete, N5KD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Pete Smith
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 13:11
To: hamlogger@groups.io
Subject: [hamlogger] LOTW Snares

 

I am just learning this, but it appears to me that LOTW does a couple of things that trip up Logger32.  I don't know whether this is up to the LOTW or the Logger32 authors to fix, but here they are, for the record:

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, which were made before some date, are reported as having occurred on January 1 of the correct year, not the actual date.  For example, my one and only QSO with Brunei was made on May 2, 1980 on 15M.  LOTW dates it as 1-1-1980, and gives me credit for Mixed, CW and 15M.  Logger 32 does not accept the 1-1-80 date, or any others of the 1-1-[year] date format.

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, where the first QSO was made before some (even earlier?) date, are reporteded by LOTW only by DXCC number, even if there were many subsequent QSOs confirmed on LOTW with that entity.  As an example, my Alaska DXCC credit is reported by LOTW only as "006."  Of course, Logger 32 has no way to handle this because of the lack of callsign, date and time.

Are these known issues (I can't imagine that they are not)? Any planned fixes?

-- 
 
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster.

 


Pete Smith <n4zr@...>
 

Yup.  There's also an intermediate group that has the call of the confirming station, but a date of 1-1-whatever year it was.  Logger 32 doesn't accept those either.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster.
On 10/26/2018 12:39 PM, Dan Atchison via Groups.Io wrote:

Just talked to my good friend and fellow PVRCer, K4CIA.  He's an ARRL Card Checker and I asked him about LOTW using country numbers.  He said that if the confirmed QSO (even granted) is old (he doesn't know the exact date) that before they went computerized DXCC listed only countries confirmed, not individual QSO's.  There would be NO date nor callsign associated with it.

On 10/26/2018 9:11 AM, Pete Smith wrote:

I am just learning this, but it appears to me that LOTW does a couple of things that trip up Logger32.  I don't know whether this is up to the LOTW or the Logger32 authors to fix, but here they are, for the record:

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, which were made before some date, are reported as having occurred on January 1 of the correct year, not the actual date.  For example, my one and only QSO with Brunei was made on May 2, 1980 on 15M.  LOTW dates it as 1-1-1980, and gives me credit for Mixed, CW and 15M.  Logger 32 does not accept the 1-1-80 date, or any others of the 1-1-[year] date format.

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, where the first QSO was made before some (even earlier?) date, are reporteded by LOTW only by DXCC number, even if there were many subsequent QSOs confirmed on LOTW with that entity.  As an example, my Alaska DXCC credit is reported by LOTW only as "006."  Of course, Logger 32 has no way to handle this because of the lack of callsign, date and time.

Are these known issues (I can't imagine that they are not)? Any planned fixes?

-- 

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster.


Gary Hinson
 

Hi Pete.

 

It’s not that they aren’t ‘accepted’, just that the details reported by LoTW don’t match a QSO in your log due to one or more significant discrepancies.  Logger32 won’t simply guess which QSO has been credited!

 

If you can locate the relevant QSO in your log (on the correct date in that year --- probably!), you can right-click it then select LoTW QSL Received, which will update your DXCC statistics in Logger32 accordingly:

 

 

So long as the QSO has been credited to your DXCC, does it really matter that LoTW reports a fake date?

 

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

From: hamlogger@groups.io <hamlogger@groups.io> On Behalf Of Pete Smith
Sent: 27 October 2018 14:54
To: hamlogger@groups.io
Subject: Re: [hamlogger] LOTW Snares

 

Yup.  There's also an intermediate group that has the call of the confirming station, but a date of 1-1-whatever year it was.  Logger 32 doesn't accept those either.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster.

On 10/26/2018 12:39 PM, Dan Atchison via Groups.Io wrote:

Just talked to my good friend and fellow PVRCer, K4CIA.  He's an ARRL Card Checker and I asked him about LOTW using country numbers.  He said that if the confirmed QSO (even granted) is old (he doesn't know the exact date) that before they went computerized DXCC listed only countries confirmed, not individual QSO's.  There would be NO date nor callsign associated with it.

On 10/26/2018 9:11 AM, Pete Smith wrote:

I am just learning this, but it appears to me that LOTW does a couple of things that trip up Logger32.  I don't know whether this is up to the LOTW or the Logger32 authors to fix, but here they are, for the record:

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, which were made before some date, are reported as having occurred on January 1 of the correct year, not the actual date.  For example, my one and only QSO with Brunei was made on May 2, 1980 on 15M.  LOTW dates it as 1-1-1980, and gives me credit for Mixed, CW and 15M.  Logger 32 does not accept the 1-1-80 date, or any others of the 1-1-[year] date format.

QSOs that are counted for DXCC, where the first QSO was made before some (even earlier?) date, are reporteded by LOTW only by DXCC number, even if there were many subsequent QSOs confirmed on LOTW with that entity.  As an example, my Alaska DXCC credit is reported by LOTW only as "006."  Of course, Logger 32 has no way to handle this because of the lack of callsign, date and time.

Are these known issues (I can't imagine that they are not)? Any planned fixes?

-- 
 
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster.