Date   

Re: Case Hardening the Permanent Spindle #lathe

Brandon Nugent
 

I like that idea! 

Future spindles are in the works.  One of which will have a threaded section to hold screw on chucks or other holding devices.   Another will have a complete bore all the way through.


Re: Case Hardening the Permanent Spindle #lathe

Guy Winton
 

You could bore the spindle you have and insert a hardened, ground center

-Guy-


On May 13, 2021 at 8:21 PM Brandon Nugent <nugentmakes@...> wrote:

The spindle is 1018 mild steel.  And yes that is shown in the picture on the left.  Currently I only have a faceplate and plan on building the Gingery 4 jaw and other accessories.  It's all between center turning at the moment so the work is turned with a clamp dog holding the work and pinned between the centers.  I had noticed some deformation on the temporary headstock spindle, mostly cosmetic, but it had made me wonder whether some time in the forge and an oil quench might be in order.

So far so good.  Today I turned out a tool I needed for another project using the setup and it seemed fine.  No issues.


 


Re: Case Hardening the Permanent Spindle #lathe

Bill in OKC too
 

The spindle is not likely to be a cast part. IIRC, it is supposed be drill rod or cold-rolled steel. If  you make it of drill rod, you can heat and quench it, but that can warp it. If  you're using cold-rolled steel, and for some reason want it hard, you'd have to heat it and apply the case hardening compound and then quench. Again, likely warping it. With the drill rod it should be hardened through, while the CRS will have a hard surface layer, but be soft inside. 

Went and looked, the spindle is supposed to be 5/8" CRS. 

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Thursday, May 13, 2021, 06:07:50 PM CDT, Ethan Allred <cavemaneca@...> wrote:


I'm pretty sure all of the cast parts are aluminium.


Re: Lost Foam

Bill in OKC too
 

How complex are the objects you want to cast, and how many copies do you need? Both of those questions, answered, can help you figure out what YOU need, and when. If you need fairly simple parts without undercuts, and you may need several of them, make the pattern piece out of wood. If you need pretty fancy parts, lots of undercuts, and only one of them, foam is good for that. You need to make the patterns larger, for machining and shrinkage allowances, regardless of what you use for the pattern. 

HTH!

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Thursday, May 13, 2021, 12:45:25 PM CDT, dk54321 via groups.io <dk54321@...> wrote:


Question for those who cast with lost foam, would you recommend that people new to casting start with lost foam, or work with wood patterns first?


Re: Case Hardening the Permanent Spindle #lathe

Brandon Nugent
 

Not a problem!  Thanks for the updated feedback.


Re: Case Hardening the Permanent Spindle #lathe

Ethan Allred
 

I honestly misread the question and thought you had mentioned the headstock, not the spindle. 

I'd say it would be worthwhile if you wanted to case harden the end of the spindle with the center. Until you have a chuck/face plate you'll be wearing against it with every setup, and 1018 will get a lot of damage from dogs/etc.

Just make sure to temper it afterwards if you go that route.


Re: Case Hardening the Permanent Spindle #lathe

Brandon Nugent
 

The spindle is 1018 mild steel.  And yes that is shown in the picture on the left.  Currently I only have a faceplate and plan on building the Gingery 4 jaw and other accessories.  It's all between center turning at the moment so the work is turned with a clamp dog holding the work and pinned between the centers.  I had noticed some deformation on the temporary headstock spindle, mostly cosmetic, but it had made me wonder whether some time in the forge and an oil quench might be in order.

So far so good.  Today I turned out a tool I needed for another project using the setup and it seemed fine.  No issues.


Re: Case Hardening the Permanent Spindle #lathe

Ethan Allred
 

I'm pretty sure all of the cast parts are aluminium.


Re: Case Hardening the Permanent Spindle #lathe

Drag
 

What material did you use to make the spindle out of in the first place? What work are you planning to do with the spindle, and is that it shown in the picture? Do you intend to use something like  three/four jaw chuck with it in the future?
My apologies but it has been quite end some time since I read the Gingery books so I may be missing a step somewhere...

Drag


Re: Lost Foam

Ethan Allred
 

I'd say start with lost foam, simply because you're more likely to get something decent with minimal trouble, and you don't need to worry about all of the problems associated with getting a split pattern mold done right. Once you have a few good castings under you belt it's less likely you'll feel like wanting to quit when you run into troubles learning how to mold patterns correctly.

(Note: though I use "you" it's more directed at the new person if you meant this as something to tell someone else)


Lost Foam

dk54321@...
 

Question for those who cast with lost foam, would you recommend that people new to casting start with lost foam, or work with wood patterns first?


Re: Bearing cross reference

Nick Andrews
 

Aye, though I was hoping to not take them out first, although it's not like I need to run the mill every day.  sat in my garage and then this shed for at least 6 years unused, so...

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 7:10 AM Terry Coombs <snagone@...> wrote:
On 5/12/2021 11:37 PM, Nick Andrews wrote:
> I thought maybe someone here could help me figure out what bearings are
> used in the idler shaft on my South Bend vertical mill.   The manual
> shows them as sealed bearings PT7061M1.  The motor is nice and quiet, 
> but the jack shaft is not.
>
> Also thinking I should get spare belts too.  Any thoughts?   Thanks.

   The easiest way I've found to match bearings is to take them with you
to a supply house and have them match them . The second easiest way is
to measure the OD , ID , thickness , and what type of shield . FWIW VXB
on eBay has done me well ...
--
Snag
Race only matters to racists ...







Re: Bearing cross reference

Terry Coombs
 

On 5/12/2021 11:37 PM, Nick Andrews wrote:
I thought maybe someone here could help me figure out what bearings are used in the idler shaft on my South Bend vertical mill.   The manual shows them as sealed bearings PT7061M1.  The motor is nice and quiet, but the jack shaft is not.
Also thinking I should get spare belts too.  Any thoughts?   Thanks.
The easiest way I've found to match bearings is to take them with you to a supply house and have them match them . The second easiest way is to measure the OD , ID , thickness , and what type of shield . FWIW VXB on eBay has done me well ...
--
Snag
Race only matters to racists ...


Bearing cross reference

Nick Andrews
 

I thought maybe someone here could help me figure out what bearings are used in the idler shaft on my South Bend vertical mill.   The manual shows them as sealed bearings PT7061M1.  The motor is nice and quiet,  but the jack shaft is not. 

Also thinking I should get spare belts too.  Any thoughts?   Thanks. 


Re: Overall footprint of machines #mill #lathe #shaper

Brandon Nugent
 

I realize I am late to answering this (over a year), but my footprint for the lathe is approximately 38"x25".  Probably not the most efficient use of space, but there is room at least on the bench to reach around and swap belts, turn the leadscew, etc.  Also my power switch and variable speed control is on a plate that extends away from the lathe and is easy to reach.

The plan is to build a concrete table (much like Makercise), and have enough room around it to do what I need, hold tools as needed and store the rest beneath in some drawers.


Re: Case Hardening the Permanent Spindle #lathe

Bill in OKC too
 

The spindle should not ever get mangled from hard materials. You'll likely use a center in it, or a chuck or faceplate on it, and the material should never actually touch the spindle. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Wednesday, May 12, 2021, 06:25:19 PM CDT, Brandon Nugent <nugentmakes@...> wrote:


Thanks Ethan, Thanks Bill.

I am moving forward and if the spindle gets mangled from harder materials, I will clean it up and re-evaluate the need for hardening.


Re: Hand-powered shaper, machined by W. Maisey

Brandon Nugent
 

Thanks for posting this - I just subscribed to his channel.  That took a while for him to complete.  Very cool project.


Re: Case Hardening the Permanent Spindle #lathe

Brandon Nugent
 

Thanks Ethan, Thanks Bill.

I am moving forward and if the spindle gets mangled from harder materials, I will clean it up and re-evaluate the need for hardening.


Re: Case Hardening the Permanent Spindle #lathe

Bill in OKC too
 

I don't think it needs to be hardened. If you just want to, that would be up to you. Be aware that hardening it will cause it to warp. Then you'd need to grind it. You essentially open several cans of worms that you don't need opened. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Wednesday, May 12, 2021, 03:16:18 PM CDT, Brandon Nugent <nugentmakes@...> wrote:


Question for larger group:

Should the headstock spindle be case hardened?  Or even just slightly hardened?  

Today I 'finished' machining the headstock spindle and am wondering if it shouldn't be hardened in some way to protect it from regular use.


Re: Case Hardening the Permanent Spindle #lathe

Ethan Allred
 

I would say no. It shouldn't need hardening. If you want to protect it go with an enamel or epoxy paint.


On Wed, May 12, 2021, 14:16 Brandon Nugent <nugentmakes@...> wrote:

Question for larger group:

Should the headstock spindle be case hardened?  Or even just slightly hardened?  

Today I 'finished' machining the headstock spindle and am wondering if it shouldn't be hardened in some way to protect it from regular use.

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