use 3 place columns in a source citation


michael fike
 

Hello all,

I would like to limit the place location of a census citation (and possibly others) to only reference the city, county, and state … leaving the country off.  The title contains the country (IE: 1950 US Census).

My current place column definition is city/town, county, state, country.

Using place:short only gives me the town.

Using place:medium gives me the town and county … not the state.


Is there a way to get only columns 1 through 3 to show in a citation without creating a new place just for census citations?


Can =TextPart( %?????.PLAC>%, 1, 3, STD ) be used somehow in a citation format?


I use Ancestral Sources as my primary tool to enter census data.


As a second question do many of you list the country in the census location as well in the title of the citation … IE: 1950 US Census as a title and “Chicago, Cook Co., Illinois, United States” in the location?  I know this is a question preference, but I would like to hear others on how they handle this question.

Thanks to all.

--
Michael
(Fike, Friend, Umbel, Thomas)
(Gabryszak, Majewski, Mazurkiewicz, Kondracki)


Mike Tate
 

Hi Michael,

Could you give a few more clues please.

Exactly where in the Citation are you saving those place details?

You also mention the Title but Citations don’t have Titles so I guess you mean the Source record Title.

I wonder if you are referring to the Footnote Format or perhaps the Bibliography Format in the Source Template Definition.

A screenshot of where you use the place details would be ideal.

 


 

I ALWAYS enter the full place name with NO abbreviations for all locations. Short names and abbreviations lead to confusion.

However, as you said, it's a personal preference thing. Others will disagree with me.

Todd

On 11/24/2022 11:32 AM, michael fike wrote:

1950 US Census as a title and “Chicago, Cook Co., Illinois, United States” in the location?  I know this is a question preference, but I would like to hear others on how they handle this question.


Adrian Bruce
 

Interesting question... Firstly, I don't use Ancestral Sources for purely historical reasons - I started out with my own formats before AS came along and continued with them. So what goes into my Source Records is basically my own concoction that gets copied / modified each time.

I'm just looking at several of my source records and in virtually no cases do I appear to record the country in the Title of the Source Record. I suspect that this is fundamentally because the Collection Title (which I put in the Publication item - your mileage may vary) contains the country. For instance, 'digital image of original published in "1921 Census of Canada [database on-line]"'
'digital image of original published in "1861 England Census [database on-line]"'

I guess that there are other ways also - for instance the Author on the Source Record often contains an indication of the country:
"General Register Office (Scotland)"
"Danmarks Statistik (Denmark Statistical Office)"
"Bureau of the Census (USA)"
"General Register Office (England & Wales)"

Given those different means of recording countries, a further reference would seem redundant, so the place-name in the Title for the Source Record excludes the country. (Again, let me emphasise that I don't use AS, so I have no idea how easy it is to omit the country in those cases.)

And again - this is what goes in the Source Record - the place names on events are different, they are the full version, including country.

Adrian


On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 at 19:32, michael fike <postalcae@...> wrote:

Hello all,

I would like to limit the place location of a census citation (and possibly others) to only reference the city, county, and state … leaving the country off.  The title contains the country (IE: 1950 US Census).

My current place column definition is city/town, county, state, country.

Using place:short only gives me the town.

Using place:medium gives me the town and county … not the state.


Is there a way to get only columns 1 through 3 to show in a citation without creating a new place just for census citations?


Can =TextPart( %?????.PLAC>%, 1, 3, STD ) be used somehow in a citation format?


I use Ancestral Sources as my primary tool to enter census data.


As a second question do many of you list the country in the census location as well in the title of the citation … IE: 1950 US Census as a title and “Chicago, Cook Co., Illinois, United States” in the location?  I know this is a question preference, but I would like to hear others on how they handle this question.

Thanks to all.

--
Michael
(Fike, Friend, Umbel, Thomas)
(Gabryszak, Majewski, Mazurkiewicz, Kondracki)


Mike Tate
 

Is there a way to get only columns 1 through 3 to show in a citation without creating a new place just for census citations?

Can =TextPart( %?????.PLAC>%, 1, 3, STD ) be used somehow in a citation format?

I use Ancestral Sources as my primary tool to enter census data.

 

Have you seen the recent discussions in the FHUG Forum: Ancestral Sources?

Testing Ancestral Sources v7.6.n

https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=21141&start=25

 

AS V7.6.n has introduced the =COMMAINDEX(…) function that is similar to the FH =TextPart(…) function.

So you can use that to extract parts 1-3 from a Placename for insertion into source citation data.

 




Victor Markham
 

I always put USA at the end rather than United States

Victor

On 24/11/2022 20:16, Todd Carnes wrote:

I ALWAYS enter the full place name with NO abbreviations for all locations. Short names and abbreviations lead to confusion.

However, as you said, it's a personal preference thing. Others will disagree with me.

Todd

On 11/24/2022 11:32 AM, michael fike wrote:
1950 US Census as a title and “Chicago, Cook Co., Illinois, United States” in the location?  I know this is a question preference, but I would like to hear others on how they handle this question.


Victor Markham
 

There are same place names in different countries so it is important to add the country name. Canada has a number of place names that are in England

In the case of Yorkshire I always add North, East or West as some same name places appear in more than one Riding. example there is Hessle, East Yorkshire and Hessle, West Yorkshire

Victor

On 24/11/2022 20:29, Adrian Bruce wrote:

Interesting question... Firstly, I don't use Ancestral Sources for purely historical reasons - I started out with my own formats before AS came along and continued with them. So what goes into my Source Records is basically my own concoction that gets copied / modified each time.

I'm just looking at several of my source records and in virtually no cases do I appear to record the country in the Title of the Source Record. I suspect that this is fundamentally because the Collection Title (which I put in the Publication item - your mileage may vary) contains the country. For instance, 'digital image of original published in "1921 Census of Canada [database on-line]"'
'digital image of original published in "1861 England Census [database on-line]"'

I guess that there are other ways also - for instance the Author on the Source Record often contains an indication of the country:
"General Register Office (Scotland)"
"Danmarks Statistik (Denmark Statistical Office)"
"Bureau of the Census (USA)"
"General Register Office (England & Wales)"

Given those different means of recording countries, a further reference would seem redundant, so the place-name in the Title for the Source Record excludes the country. (Again, let me emphasise that I don't use AS, so I have no idea how easy it is to omit the country in those cases.)

And again - this is what goes in the Source Record - the place names on events are different, they are the full version, including country.

Adrian


On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 at 19:32, michael fike <postalcae@...> wrote:

Hello all,

I would like to limit the place location of a census citation (and possibly others) to only reference the city, county, and state … leaving the country off.  The title contains the country (IE: 1950 US Census).

My current place column definition is city/town, county, state, country.

Using place:short only gives me the town.

Using place:medium gives me the town and county … not the state.


Is there a way to get only columns 1 through 3 to show in a citation without creating a new place just for census citations?


Can =TextPart( %?????.PLAC>%, 1, 3, STD ) be used somehow in a citation format?


I use Ancestral Sources as my primary tool to enter census data.


As a second question do many of you list the country in the census location as well in the title of the citation … IE: 1950 US Census as a title and “Chicago, Cook Co., Illinois, United States” in the location?  I know this is a question preference, but I would like to hear others on how they handle this question.

Thanks to all.

--
Michael
(Fike, Friend, Umbel, Thomas)
(Gabryszak, Majewski, Mazurkiewicz, Kondracki)


 

Sometimes there are more than one town with the same name in the same state in the US.

On 11/24/2022 1:39 PM, Victor Markham via groups.io wrote:
There are same place names in different countries


michael fike
 

Thanks to all for the reply …


I am a new user to FH and still learning the right terminology.  Mike you are correct that I was referring to the Source Record Title where I have mentioned title before.  Currently I am using the year and head of household to title the source.   "1950 US Federal Census: Ross S. Fike".

Further down is the Citation-specific Details is “Jurisdiction” which is linked to the place list.  (Friendsville, Garrett Co., Maryland) This is where I would like to pull the first three columns from the place list.  I currently have “United States” removed from the place list in this test database to show what I am looking to achieve.

I hope the picture will help.  I did notice your other post regarding the =COMMAINDEX(…) function and I will now investigate that avenue.

I have been using the country names in the place list for non-US places or for places in North America pre-US … IE: British North America.

 

--
Michael
(Fike, Friend, Umbel, Thomas)
(Gabryszak, Majewski, Mazurkiewicz, Kondracki)


Mike Tate
 

FYI: “Jurisdiction” is a Source Record field and not part of the Citation-specific Details which are shown lower down.

 

In AS presumably you have the Templated Source definition for “Jurisdiction” set to {PLACE} and have tried {PLACE.MEDIUM}

That is where to apply the =COMMAINDEX[1%{PLACE.FULL}], =COMMAINDEX[2%{PLACE.FULL}], =COMMAINDEX[3%{PLACE.FULL}]

 


Mike Tate
 

I forgot to say that to obtain those =COMMAINDEX[1%{PLACE.FULL}] options you must install the AS V7.6.3 test version from the FHUG Forum.

https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=21141

or wait until testing has finished and AS gets formally released.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 25 November 2022 14:16
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] use 3 place columns in a source citation

 

FYI: “Jurisdiction” is a Source Record field and not part of the Citation-specific Details which are shown lower down.

 

In AS presumably you have the Templated Source definition for “Jurisdiction” set to {PLACE} and have tried {PLACE.MEDIUM}

That is where to apply the =COMMAINDEX[1%{PLACE.FULL}], =COMMAINDEX[2%{PLACE.FULL}], =COMMAINDEX[3%{PLACE.FULL}]

 


michael fike
 

Mike,

Thank you for the follow up.  I did notice that I needed to install 7.6.3 for the option and I now have the COMMAINDEX working.  I also worked through the textpart and have it working in other source template definitions.  I now can reference just parts of a place from a comma list.

Thanks to you and everyone else who responded.
--
Michael
(Fike, Friend, Umbel, Thomas)
(Gabryszak, Majewski, Mazurkiewicz, Kondracki)