Transferring custom birth tag


Wendy McGuire
 

This is my first post to the list. After downloading the FH trial and reading the guidance for TMG users, I transferred a database. The standard birth tag transferred successfully. My custom birth tag is transferring as “even” rather than “birt” so those birth dates don't appear in the "born:" space on the individual's Main tab. Is there a way to transfer the customized birth tag to FH so the birth date appears? Thanks.


Mike Tate
 

Welcome Wendy.

There are two methods you can use.

1) In the TMG Tools > Master Tag Type List you will see that Birth uses GEDCOM : BIRT which is the standard Birth tag.

For your custom Birth tag change GEDCOM : EVEN to GEDCOM : BIRT to match the standard Birth tag.

2) If that does not work, then in FH the ‘Change Any Fact Tag’ plugin can convert all your custom Birth events to standard Birth events in one go.

You may discover other tags that need a similar treatment. That technique has been used by many other TMG migrants.

 

BTW: Are you aware of FHUG Forums at https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/ where many migrants to FH converse.

Did you use the FH website guidance or did you find the FHUG Knowledge Base ‘Importing to Family Historian’ advice?

https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/importing-to-family-historian/

 

Mike Tate

 


Wendy McGuire
 

Thanks for the welcome and suggestions. Changing the custom Birth tag GEDCOM to BIRT did not work. I read both the FH website guidance and the webpages about Importing to Family Historian advice. It seemed only a fully licensed user is able to download a plugin and I have a trial version. I'll sign up at the FHUG Forums to learn more.


Mike Tate
 

You obtained a trial licence for FH V7 so you are fully licenced for 30 days and definitely can download Plugins.

The restriction applied to earlier FH trial versions that were not formally licenced.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Wendy McGuire
Sent: 31 July 2022 02:43
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

Thanks for the welcome and suggestions. Changing the custom Birth tag GEDCOM to BIRT did not work. I read both the FH website guidance and the webpages about Importing to Family Historian advice. It seemed only a fully licensed user is able to download a plugin and I have a trial version. I'll sign up at the FHUG Forums to learn more.


Wendy McGuire
 

Thanks for sticking with me. I downloaded the Plugin, ran it and changed the custom birth tag to Birth, and saw 156 changes as expected. The changes appear in the Facts tab. I'm missing something obvious. What do I do next to have the 156 changed birth tags appear in the Main tab window so each individual shows their birth date after Born:?


Mike Tate
 

If they really are standard Birth (BIRT) events then the Main tab should show the Born date.

So may be the conversion is not what you thought.

Exactly what options did you choose?

A screenshot of the Plugin would help but that becomes slow on this Email forum.

The FHUG Forum is easier for these discussions at https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/

 

Mike Tate

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Wendy McGuire
Sent: 31 July 2022 17:54
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

Thanks for sticking with me. I downloaded the Plugin, ran it and changed the custom birth tag to Birth, and saw 156 changes as expected. The changes appear in the Facts tab. I'm missing something obvious. What do I do next to have the 156 changed birth tags appear in the Main tab window so each individual shows their birth date after Born:?


Paul Tanner-Tremaine
 

On the facts tab, highlight the one that needs o show the date, right click, then Fact Flags, and select Preferred.  I do this with occupations to show the latest or last Occupation fact.


Mike Tate
 

Paul, that should only be necessary if there is more than one Birth event, which would be unusual.

 

Yes, it is useful for multiple facts such as Occupation or Census or Residence but pointless for single instance facts.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Tanner-Tremaine
Sent: 01 August 2022 09:28
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

On the facts tab, highlight the one that needs to show the date, right click, then Fact Flags, and select Preferred.  I do this with occupations to show the latest or last Occupation fact.


colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

Yes, it is useful for multiple facts such as Occupation or Census or Residence but pointless for single instance facts.”

 

That sounds a bit dogmatic, Mike, when it’s an opinion not a golden rule.

 

It may not be your method of working, but some (unknown number) of people recording multiple (e.g.) birth facts and use the preferred and rejected flags to indicate what they’ve concluded about which is/are most likely.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 01 August 2022 10:24
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

Paul, that should only be necessary if there is more than one Birth event, which would be unusual.

 

Yes, it is useful for multiple facts such as Occupation or Census or Residence but pointless for single instance facts.


Mike Tate
 

Helen, I think you have misread my message.

I did mention the possibility of multi-instance Birth events and only said the Preferred flag was pointless on single instance facts.

What is dogmatic about that?

That seems perfectly reasonable in the context of this thread regarding the import of custom Birth facts from TMG.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 01 August 2022 10:30
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

Yes, it is useful for multiple facts such as Occupation or Census or Residence but pointless for single instance facts.”

 

That sounds a bit dogmatic, Mike, when it’s an opinion not a golden rule.

 

It may not be your method of working, but some (unknown number) of people recording multiple (e.g.) birth facts and use the preferred and rejected flags to indicate what they’ve concluded about which is/are most likely.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 01 August 2022 10:24
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

Paul, that should only be necessary if there is more than one Birth event, which would be unusual.

 

Yes, it is useful for multiple facts such as Occupation or Census or Residence but pointless for single instance facts.


colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

I was reacting to:

 

Paul, that should only be necessary if there is more than one Birth event, which would be unusual.”

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 01 August 2022 10:43
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

Helen, I think you have misread my message.

I did mention the possibility of multi-instance Birth events and only said the Preferred flag was pointless on single instance facts.

What is dogmatic about that?

That seems perfectly reasonable in the context of this thread regarding the import of custom Birth facts from TMG.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 01 August 2022 10:30
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

Yes, it is useful for multiple facts such as Occupation or Census or Residence but pointless for single instance facts.”

 

That sounds a bit dogmatic, Mike, when it’s an opinion not a golden rule.

 

It may not be your method of working, but some (unknown number) of people recording multiple (e.g.) birth facts and use the preferred and rejected flags to indicate what they’ve concluded about which is/are most likely.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 01 August 2022 10:24
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

Paul, that should only be necessary if there is more than one Birth event, which would be unusual.

 

Yes, it is useful for multiple facts such as Occupation or Census or Residence but pointless for single instance facts.


Mike Tate
 

But you didn’t quote that half of my message and only quoted the other half.

So you seem to be claiming that multiple Birth events are usual, i.e. habitually or typically occurring or done; customary.

I would think that is not the case.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 01 August 2022 10:48
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

I was reacting to:

 

Paul, that should only be necessary if there is more than one Birth event, which would be unusual.”

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 01 August 2022 10:43
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

Helen, I think you have misread my message.

I did mention the possibility of multi-instance Birth events and only said the Preferred flag was pointless on single instance facts.

What is dogmatic about that?

That seems perfectly reasonable in the context of this thread regarding the import of custom Birth facts from TMG.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 01 August 2022 10:30
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

Yes, it is useful for multiple facts such as Occupation or Census or Residence but pointless for single instance facts.”

 

That sounds a bit dogmatic, Mike, when it’s an opinion not a golden rule.

 

It may not be your method of working, but some (unknown number) of people recording multiple (e.g.) birth facts and use the preferred and rejected flags to indicate what they’ve concluded about which is/are most likely.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 01 August 2022 10:24
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

Paul, that should only be necessary if there is more than one Birth event, which would be unusual.

 

Yes, it is useful for multiple facts such as Occupation or Census or Residence but pointless for single instance facts.


colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

Yes, deleted the wrong half of your post in my original quote, for which I apologise.

 

“I would think that is not the case.”

 

Exactly. It’s your opinion, not a fact, and you should state it as such. There are perfectly good reasons to do it; perhaps somebody wants to use the separate facts when constructing a proof argument, or even just use the new features in FH to record their thinking when discounting a possible birth. Neither you nor I know how many people do or don’t record multiple birth facts, so we can only have opinions (aka guesses).

 

I want to repeat the point that there is nothing unusual or wrong about it at all. By not clarifying that it’s your opinion about how things are/should be done, you may be deterring people from adopting that way of working when it could best suit what they want to achieve.

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 01 August 2022 12:49
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

But you didn’t quote that half of my message and only quoted the other half.

So you seem to be claiming that multiple Birth events are usual, i.e. habitually or typically occurring or done; customary.

I would think that is not the case.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 01 August 2022 10:48
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

I was reacting to:

 

Paul, that should only be necessary if there is more than one Birth event, which would be unusual.”


Janis Rodriguez
 

First message from another new TMG user exploring Family Historian 7:

I agree that having multiple, custom birth tags is not all that unusual, especially during time frames when there are no, or few, birth records and the researcher is relying on censuses and other secondary records.  I have several people whose ages vary (sometimes widely) from census to census and whose children record their parents birth places on their death certificates as the location where their parents were “from” but do not appear to know the exact location of their birth!  When your ancestors are migrating across a continent, record keeping can be scattered and sometimes lax. Many TMG users have taken advantage of the flexibility of that program to add custom tags of all types to distinguish between all types of circumstances.  Of course I used these custom tags the most on my direct ancestors whose information is the most precious to me. Our custom tag usage appears to be coming back to bite us a bit in the migration process but hopefully we’ll be able to work through it. 

Thanks, all, for your help on this journey of discovery!

Jan Rodriguez

On Aug 1, 2022, at 8:24 AM, colevalleygirl@... wrote:

Yes, deleted the wrong half of your post in my original quote, for which I apologise.

 

“I would think that is not the case.”

 

Exactly. It’s your opinion, not a fact, and you should state it as such. There are perfectly good reasons to do it; perhaps somebody wants to use the separate facts when constructing a proof argument, or even just use the new features in FH to record their thinking when discounting a possible birth. Neither you nor I know how many people do or don’t record multiple birth facts, so we can only have opinions (aka guesses).

 

I want to repeat the point that there is nothing unusual or wrong about it at all. By not clarifying that it’s your opinion about how things are/should be done, you may be deterring people from adopting that way of working when it could best suit what they want to achieve.

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 01 August 2022 12:49
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

But you didn’t quote that half of my message and only quoted the other half.

So you seem to be claiming that multiple Birth events are usual, i.e. habitually or typically occurring or done; customary.

I would think that is not the case.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 01 August 2022 10:48
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

I was reacting to:

 

Paul, that should only be necessary if there is more than one Birth event, which would be unusual.”



Wendy McGuire
 

Thanks, Paul, but doing that did not have the birth date appear after Born: on the Main tab.


Mike, In this project, the TMG tags Birth and Birth-Custom tags have identical content. The problem remains that the GEDCOM import did not assign Birt to the Custom Birth tag. It has “Even.” and so the Birth-Custom tag was assigned to Facts in FH.

For plugin options I chose:
Source Tag Set: TMG import
Source Tag Name: Birth-Cust

Target Tag Set: Standard
Target Tag Name: Birth



What's the difference between this list and the forum? Thanks to everyone trying to help!


colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

What's the difference between this list and the forum?

 

The list is run by Calico Pie; the forum (FHUG) is an independent user group (with an associated Knowledge Base written by users). The same ‘experts’ tend to hang out on both to offer help, but there are more people registered on the forum who may also join in a discussion with examples of what they do in a particular circumstance.

 

You can post attachments (images) both here and at FHUG. Here, they’re reviewed before they’re posted, but that tends to be quite quick during the UK day/evening – say 0600 to 2000.  On FHUG, they’ll appear immediately.

 

So use whichever suits you best – or use both. You can browse/search FHUG without registering for an account, so can benefit from the discussion there anyway if it’s relevant to you, and it’s always worth searching to see if your ‘issue’ has come up before.

 

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Wendy McGuire
Sent: 01 August 2022 19:41
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Transferring custom birth tag

 

Thanks, Paul, but doing that did not have the birth date appear after Born: on the Main tab.


Mike, In this project, the TMG tags Birth and Birth-Custom tags have identical content. The problem remains that the GEDCOM import did not assign Birt to the Custom Birth tag. It has “Even.” and so the Birth-Custom tag was assigned to Facts in FH.

For plugin options I chose:
Source Tag Set: TMG import
Source Tag Name: Birth-Cust

Target Tag Set: Standard
Target Tag Name: Birth



What's the difference between this list and the forum? Thanks to everyone trying to help!


Mike Tate
 

Wendy,

Why are you using GEDCOM import? Use the direct import as recommended in the advice.

Use FH File > Project Window > New Project… Import from other family tree file, and Browse… to the TMG Project .PJC file.

 

The plugin options you chose are correct.

 

This Email list is run by Calico Pie and adding screenshots is delayed because they are manually reviewed.

 

The FHUG website Forum is run by FH users and adding screenshots and cross-refs to the Knowledge Base are easier.

I would like to see a screenshot of the Main tab and Facts tab after converting the Birth-Cust fact.

It might also be necessary to check the FH GEDCOM file. All that is much easier in the FHUG Forums.

 

Mike Tate

 


Wendy McGuire
 

Mike,
Sorry for the confusion. I used the recommended import as you outlined.

Thanks for the explanations about the email list and the FHUG website. 


Jan Murphy
 

Mike wrote:


Paul, that should only be necessary if there is more than one Birth event, which would be unusual.

 

Yes, it is useful for multiple facts such as Occupation or Census or Residence but pointless for single instance facts.

This is going to be a Captain Obvious Post; users who aren't in the mood for a rant can should move on to the next message now.

Yes, there are events which happen once in life, such as birth, death, vs. events which can happen more than once (marriage, burial, residence, occupation, etc.).

However, even for those events which happen only once, the records which refer to them can vary, and so we end up with what some might call 'multiple maybes'.  

The GEDCOM standard is designed for keeping track of information where we have reached a conclusion.  In my opinion, it is not well-suited for evidence analysis and keeping track of dynamic data.  As Helen has said already, some users use alternate birth and death events to keep track of the conflicting data they have in various records, and use a Preferred flag to represent the current conclusion or "best educated guess" that we have at the moment.  I used to use this technique on my Ancestry online "hint bait" trees until Ancestry introduced the feature to show family events on a profile.  If you use this feature, it becomes cumbersome to have multiple births and deaths, so I am in the process of cleaning up my online trees. I make the conflicts visible on the profile by putting a summary of conflicting information in the description field instead. 

Whenever we have software that allows us to search or get hints via a prompt from a person's profile, it is helpful to have multiple instances that can be toggled into focus via a Preferred tag.  For name variants, you might want to switch up which variant of the name you want to search for (maiden vs. married). It is not at all unsual for a user who is trying to decide between two variant dates of death might want to swap back and forth to see what hints or search results happen if you search with each one.  

I take your point that people are born and die only once, but sometimes I wonder if the people who designed the GEDCOM standard had ever done genealogy research at all.  Family Historian is and will likely remain my preferred lineage-linked software, but for evidence analysis, using programs that are not GEDCOM-based may be the better way to go.


Mike Tate
 

I stand by my opinion that multiple Birth events “would be unusual” and did not imply they were impossible or never used.

Jan, you say “some users use alternate birth and death events” which is no doubt true.

But you say “some users” (and not “most users”) which suggests they are in the minority and thus “unusual”.

The dictionary definition of “unusual” is “not habitually or commonly occurring”.

Mike Tate