Problems using Facts page


Golden Oldie
 

I am setting up a family tree of the British Royal Family (an exercise in curiosity) and have come across two problems when using the facts page.
(1) The up and down arrows are greyed out. The order of dated events moves when I change the person of interest, but I cannot order titles and events that occur on the same day in order of precedence. Seems to me that the death of the previous sovereign should come before the titles for the person ascending the throne.
(2) How do I add a fact (In this case, change of surname)?
I am using Version 7.03

Regards, Pat


Mike Tate
 

Hi Pat,

I’m reading between the lines and trying to guess exactly what facts you are discussing.

You can see them but we can’t, so you need to be very descriptive to help us understand.

 

(1) I suspect you are talking about Timeline Facts that are enabled/disabled with the Show Timeline Facts button and have a silver bullet instead of a blue (Individual Fact) or red (Family Fact) bullet. The order of those Timeline Facts with respect to other Facts cannot be adjusted.
Actually, the Move Up/Down arrows on the Facts tab are only operational for Facts that have the same Date.

That is because the Facts tab automatically displays Facts in Date order regardless of their database order.

To adjust the database order you must use the All tab and its up/down arrows, but Timeline Facts are not shown there as they are in a different record.

(2) I suspect you are asking how to define a new custom Fact. You use the Tools > Fact Types… command and the New… button.

Exactly what is needed depends on the type of name change.

If it is an inherited Title such as King or Queen then use the existing standard Title event.

For a Deed Poll change of name, you need to create a new Deed Poll event.

See the FHUG Knowledge Base ‘How to Handle People With Multiple Names’:

https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/how-to-handle-people-with-multiple-names/

 

Mike Tate

 

 


@hectorinspector
 

Not an answer to your problem, but here is an existing one for then Royal Family that is worth looking at.

ZoomPast

Regards

Iain

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Golden Oldie
Sent: 18 April 2021 15:56
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Problems using Facts page

 

I am setting up a family tree of the British Royal Family (an exercise in curiosity) and have come across two problems when using the facts page.
(1) The up and down arrows are greyed out. The order of dated events moves when I change the person of interest, but I cannot order titles and events that occur on the same day in order of precedence. Seems to me that the death of the previous sovereign should come before the titles for the person ascending the throne.
(2) How do I add a fact (In this case, change of surname)?
I am using Version 7.03

Regards, Pat

 


Phil Warn
 

I do not know whether it helps or not but I have both Kings Henry 7 and 8 in my tree. In fact I am going to write to Charles Mountbatten Windsor and claim to be the next king, rather than him.

 

The Quaker,  Hannah Lightfoot had children with George 3rd so are their children the true line?

 

Phil

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: ihmorrison via groups.io
Sent: 18 April 2021 16:31
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Problems using Facts page

 

Not an answer to your problem, but here is an existing one for then Royal Family that is worth looking at.

ZoomPast

Regards

Iain

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Golden Oldie
Sent: 18 April 2021 15:56
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Problems using Facts page

 

I am setting up a family tree of the British Royal Family (an exercise in curiosity) and have come across two problems when using the facts page.
(1) The up and down arrows are greyed out. The order of dated events moves when I change the person of interest, but I cannot order titles and events that occur on the same day in order of precedence. Seems to me that the death of the previous sovereign should come before the titles for the person ascending the throne.
(2) How do I add a fact (In this case, change of surname)?
I am using Version 7.03

Regards, Pat

 

 


Golden Oldie
 

(1) I guess I shall alter the date of ascending the throne and gaining all the accompanying titles to the day after the death of the previous monarch.
(2) The new fact is a change of surname. Nothing to do with an individual exchanging the title of Prince to the title of King or Princess to Queen. Once I found the top row on the menu I figured out what to do. The House of Windsor came into being in 1923.

Pat


Golden Oldie
 

Sorry. It was 1917.


Rexarino
 

Mike Tate, or anyone that might understand this conundrum: Version 6, FH
On my Facts tab about myself, my birth is the last, bottom entry, rather out of sequence with the rest of my dated life fact entries such as Graduation and Marriage. I've saved and backed up this file hundreds of times, I've run F9 or Edit: re-order events by date numerous times, and Tools: Re-order out-of-sequence data. This out-of-order has happened many dozens of times for multiple Individuals, frequently any new fact added will appear above/under the fact last opened or where the mouse hovers during entry. Sometimes re-ordering finds dozens of out of sequence facts and re-orders them, but it never consistently fixes everything.
Is there a setting I should change? 
Am I not using the correct re-ordering tool?
Is it dependent on order of recording? After importing from TMG 3-4 years ago, I withheld entering my birth date until I had learned privacy settings for FH, so it shows in the order I entered it. 
In the All tab for me, neither Graduation or Marriage show under my name but Marriage data shows in the All tab when I highlight "Married" in the main window, which seems logical, although I would expect it in both my wife's and my records as well.
Does Graduation (shown as a Standard fact) not show on the All tab for some reason?
I just tried an experiment, I entered a fact for 1990, my birth date moved to the top and now, Marriage (1970) and Graduation (1980) are at the bottom. The birth of my son and all other family timeline events do not show at all. Is this caused by an unrealized improper import of my Gedcom from TMG years ago?
Regards,
Rex


On Sun, Apr 18, 2021 at 8:28 AM Mike Tate <post@...> wrote:

Hi Pat,

I’m reading between the lines and trying to guess exactly what facts you are discussing.

You can see them but we can’t, so you need to be very descriptive to help us understand.

 

(1) I suspect you are talking about Timeline Facts that are enabled/disabled with the Show Timeline Facts button and have a silver bullet instead of a blue (Individual Fact) or red (Family Fact) bullet. The order of those Timeline Facts with respect to other Facts cannot be adjusted.
Actually, the Move Up/Down arrows on the Facts tab are only operational for Facts that have the same Date.

That is because the Facts tab automatically displays Facts in Date order regardless of their database order.

To adjust the database order you must use the All tab and its up/down arrows, but Timeline Facts are not shown there as they are in a different record.

(2) I suspect you are asking how to define a new custom Fact. You use the Tools > Fact Types… command and the New… button.

Exactly what is needed depends on the type of name change.

If it is an inherited Title such as King or Queen then use the existing standard Title event.

For a Deed Poll change of name, you need to create a new Deed Poll event.

See the FHUG Knowledge Base ‘How to Handle People With Multiple Names’:

https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/how-to-handle-people-with-multiple-names/

 

Mike Tate

 

 


Mike Tate
 

Pat,

Sorry, but I forgot to mention Sort Dates that were introduced with FH V7.

You could add a Sort Date that is set a day or so later than the actual Date and will force Facts into Sort Date order.

Mike Tate

 


Mike Tate
 

Hi Rex,

You are using the correct commands to re-order facts.

The most comprehensive one is Tools > Re-order Out-of-Sequence Data… which should tell you what is being re-ordered and asking for your approval.

Are you sure you are agreeing to the re-ordering being suggested?

 

If your Birth event is a standard fact it should never be last because its Normal Time Frame precedes most other facts. I presume it has a Date.

Perhaps it is not a standard Birth event but a custom Birth fact imported from TMG. I can explain how to identify that if necessary.

 

When new facts are added they initially get appended to the existing facts. It is necessary to use the re-ordering tools every time to put them into order.

 

A few facts, such as Marriage and Divorce, are Family facts held in the Family record opened by clicking the Married bar in the Focus Window.

They appear in both the husband and wife Individual Facts tab with a red bullet as opposed to the blue bullet for Individual facts.

The All tab shows the record contents as required by the GEDCOM specification. The Marriage event cannot appear in an Individual record.

Maybe you were unaware of the distinction between Individual records and Family records.

 

If the Graduation event is a standard event then it will show on the Individual record All tab.

Does it have a blue bullet in the Facts tab? Are you sure it is not a custom fact imported from TMG?

 

The Timeline Facts for family members are switched on and off by the Show Timeline Facts button in the Facts tab toolbar below the list of Facts.

Timeline Facts have a grey bullet.

 

After you have explored the concepts described above please ask any further questions you may have.

 

Mike Tate


Rexarino
 

Mike, that was a very thoughtful explanation! Thank you for indulging the lack of education of an obviously beginner level user. 

Regards,
Rex

My comments and answers are inline within your explanation

On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 2:06 AM Mike Tate <post@...> wrote:

Hi Rex,

You are using the correct commands to re-order facts.

The most comprehensive one is Tools > Re-order Out-of-Sequence Data… which should tell you what is being re-ordered and asking for your approval.

Are you sure you are agreeing to the re-ordering being suggested?

Yes, but I sometimes choose the "reorder all" when given the option rather than step through the individual data.

 

If your Birth event is a standard fact it should never be last because its Normal Time Frame precedes most other facts. I presume it has a Date.

Perhaps it is not a standard Birth event but a custom Birth fact imported from TMG. I can explain how to identify that if necessary.

I feel foolish to admit it, but I had never paid attention to the bullets or arrows preceding the facts and did not know their use or use them. 
By adding a date to an occupation fact, the birth entry (with a date) jumped to the correct place. Now the birth entry and occupation entry 
both have blue bullets, I'm not sure of the prior indicator. I have few entries with dates in my Facts tab, I guess I think my ancestors deserve 
my attention and overlooked my own entries.
With the timeline off, the graduation entry shows with a light blue arrow, which it seems is actually not my graduation, rather it's my wife's - 
which I found by clicking the arrow - which is a new revelation for today!  I did not know that was a navigation button! 
It seems there is quite a lot I don't know!

 

When new facts are added they initially get appended to the existing facts. It is necessary to use the re-ordering tools every time to put them into order.

Ah-ha! Thanks! 

 

A few facts, such as Marriage and Divorce, are Family facts held in the Family record opened by clicking the Married bar in the Focus Window.

They appear in both the husband and wife Individual Facts tab with a red bullet as opposed to the blue bullet for Individual facts.

The All tab shows the record contents as required by the GEDCOM specification. The Marriage event cannot appear in an Individual record.

Maybe you were unaware of the distinction between Individual records and Family records.

I know the distinction, but now I better understand it's use. Are there other Family Records? Is a child's birth a family record?

 

If the Graduation event is a standard event then it will show on the Individual record All tab.

Indeed it does after I've entered my 'own' graduation fact.

Does it have a blue bullet in the Facts tab? Are you sure it is not a custom fact imported from TMG?

The fact I originally asked about has a light blue arrow, and I discovered it is a fact from my wife's profile. However, it's the only fact that shows on my Facts tab 
from my wife's data when Timeline Facts is off. Is that normal? Why would that particular fact from my wife show on my facts tab?

 

The Timeline Facts for family members are switched on and off by the Show Timeline Facts button in the Facts tab toolbar below the list of Facts.

Timeline Facts have a grey bullet.

Another lesson I've learned (or re-learned) today, thank you!

 

After you have explored the concepts described above please ask any further questions you may have.

 

Mike Tate


Mike Tate
 

Rex,

There are a great many features in FH, and if you have not explored the Help pages or experimented with the Family Historian Sample Project, then some of them may be something of a mystery. Start with the Help > Quick Start Guide and follow the links at the end to get more advice.

 

Mostly, the re-ordering commands rely on the Facts having Dates otherwise there is very little to determine their order!

 

The blue arrow indicates a Shared Fact Witness, which I presume you must have added in TMG.

In this Graduation case, your wife is the Principal person and so her fact has a blue bullet, and you are the Shared Fact Witness.

For both entries, there is a triple-blue-ball icon in the More column to indicate the existence of a Shared Fact Witness.

If you double-click either entry it shows a list of each Shared Fact Witness and their Role.

I hope that explains why this Graduation fact is the only one of your wife’s facts that appear in your Facts tab.

 

Each Family record holds the relationship between the husband, wife and their children.

It also holds Facts that apply just to the couple such as Engagement, Marriage, Separation, and Divorce.

The Birth event of a Child is not held there but in the Individual record of the child, just like the Birth event of every other Individual.

Does that answer all your questions?

 

Mike

 


Rexarino
 

Mike, you have answered all the questions I asked or implied, thanks. 
I do not see the List Of Shared Fact Witnesses by double clicking anywhere, but I suspect that a dive into settings might change what's displayed. I do see that the sentence for my entry for Graduation states that, "He was a Witness at Graduation of ----"  which really should have been a clue (a rather obvious one!) had I looked at it. And I see the triple-blue-ball in the More column, and thanks to you I know what it means. 
When I moved to Family Historian, I was both overwhelmed by it and highly motivated to enter data from the thousands of sources I was bequeathed by my wife's parents; I "inherited" suitcases and trunks and boxes of unsorted pictures and documents, thousands of items. I now find myself attempting to better understand FH, mostly because I subscribed to this list and have read so many eye-opening discussions from you and the other knowledgeable people posting here. I appreciate your gentle suggestions that I explore the help pages - you could have rightfully said, "Read the manual, idiot!" [Grin]

Wishing all on the list continued health and successful family searches,
Rex


On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 4:00 AM Mike Tate <post@...> wrote:

Rex,

There are a great many features in FH, and if you have not explored the Help pages or experimented with the Family Historian Sample Project, then some of them may be something of a mystery. Start with the Help > Quick Start Guide and follow the links at the end to get more advice.

 

Mostly, the re-ordering commands rely on the Facts having Dates otherwise there is very little to determine their order!

 

The blue arrow indicates a Shared Fact Witness, which I presume you must have added in TMG.

In this Graduation case, your wife is the Principal person and so her fact has a blue bullet, and you are the Shared Fact Witness.

For both entries, there is a triple-blue-ball icon in the More column to indicate the existence of a Shared Fact Witness.

If you double-click either entry it shows a list of each Shared Fact Witness and their Role.

I hope that explains why this Graduation fact is the only one of your wife’s facts that appear in your Facts tab.

 

Each Family record holds the relationship between the husband, wife and their children.

It also holds Facts that apply just to the couple such as Engagement, Marriage, Separation, and Divorce.

The Birth event of a Child is not held there but in the Individual record of the child, just like the Birth event of every other Individual.

Does that answer all your questions?

 

Mike

 



Mike Tate
 

Rex,

Perhaps you are running FH v6.2.7 whereas I assumed you were using the latest FH v7.0.3

In either version of FH, to list Witnesses right-click any fact in the Facts tab and choose Show Witnesses.

There are no settings to change that affect Fact Witnesses.

Mike