Prison record


John Hanson
 

Family history of course is about all records not jus the good ones
I have a 3th cousin three times removed (part of my personal one-name study that does back to a single progenitor in 1670) who was a naught boy in 1911 (have carnal knowledge as the prison record says)

I have the crime record sheet from FMP and having scoured FHUG and this list can’t find a way to record it

Any thoughts?

Regards
John Hanson - researching the Halstead/Holstead/Alstead names
Researcher, the Halsted Trust - https://www.halsted.org.uk
Research website - https://www.halstedresearch.org.uk

2021 Family History Conference - https://www.elizabethanancestors.org.uk

 

 


colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

I have a custom fact for Court Appearance, with the details recorded in the note, e.g.

 

He was found guilty of wounding during a scuffle while drunk and sentenced to 9 calendar months Hard Labour. His son Henry Richard Roberts (10 years old at the time) gave evidence in his defence.”

 

I record time in prison as a Residence event, with approx. dates if I don’t have exact dates.

 

 

 

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Hanson
Sent: 10 February 2021 08:40
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Prison record

 

Family history of course is about all records not jus the good ones
I have a 3th cousin three times removed (part of my personal one-name study that does back to a single progenitor in 1670) who was a naught boy in 1911 (have carnal knowledge as the prison record says)

I have the crime record sheet from FMP and having scoured FHUG and this list can’t find a way to record it


John Hanson
 

Thanks – however this one isn’t that easy
No record of a court case that I can find in the papers (Battersea area of London is very poorly covered)
All I have is the Crime Report from the TNA CRIM9 -
Central Criminal Court: After Trial Calendars Of Prisoners on FindMyPast
These record the crime (no dates) the sentence (in his case 12 and 7 years to run concurrently)
He was in Brixton prison in 1911 and I suspect when 1921 comes out he will probably be in Dartmoor
Suddenly realised that it will be in the oldbaileyonline - https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=def1-60-19110425&div=t19110425-60#highlight

Second wife divorces him in 1915
In 1935 he marries for the third time and finally dies in 197

So I suppose a source of the CRIM record and can link that to his 1911 census and also a court appearance (any chance of a copy of the fact from you?)
Regards

John

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 10 February 2021 08:48
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Prison record

 

I have a custom fact for Court Appearance, with the details recorded in the note, e.g.

 

He was found guilty of wounding during a scuffle while drunk and sentenced to 9 calendar months Hard Labour. His son Henry Richard Roberts (10 years old at the time) gave evidence in his defence.”

 

I record time in prison as a Residence event, with approx. dates if I don’t have exact dates.

 

 

 

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Hanson
Sent: 10 February 2021 08:40
To:
family-historian@groups.io
Subject: [family-historian] Prison record

 

Family history of course is about all records not jus the good ones
I have a 3th cousin three times removed (part of my personal one-name study that does back to a single progenitor in 1670) who was a naught boy in 1911 (have carnal knowledge as the prison record says)

I have the crime record sheet from FMP and having scoured FHUG and this list can’t find a way to record it


colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

It’s a very simple fact definition. (I won’t attach a screenshot as that will go into moderation).

 

Name and Label both Court Appearance

Normal Tim Frame: Live

No witness roles

Sentence: {individual} appeared in court {date} {place} {age}

 

Fields required: Date, Place, Note, Age

 

I don’t use Address so haven’t included that, and frankly I’m not convinced the address of the court is relevant.

 

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Hanson
Sent: 10 February 2021 09:39
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Prison record

 

Thanks – however this one isn’t that easy
No record of a court case that I can find in the papers (Battersea area of London is very poorly covered)
All I have is the Crime Report from the TNA CRIM9 -
Central Criminal Court: After Trial Calendars Of Prisoners on FindMyPast
These record the crime (no dates) the sentence (in his case 12 and 7 years to run concurrently)
He was in Brixton prison in 1911 and I suspect when 1921 comes out he will probably be in Dartmoor
Suddenly realised that it will be in the oldbaileyonline - https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=def1-60-19110425&div=t19110425-60#highlight

Second wife divorces him in 1915
In 1935 he marries for the third time and finally dies in 197

So I suppose a source of the CRIM record and can link that to his 1911 census and also a court appearance (any chance of a copy of the fact from you?)
Regards

John

 


Mike Tate
 

It might be more appropriate to use a more generic fact name/label such as Criminal Record, Criminal History or Conviction.

{individual} was convicted {date} {place} {age}

 

If you make it a custom Attribute then its value could describe the crime and the sentence.

{place} {date} {age}, {individual} was convicted< of {value}>

e.g.

In The Central Criminal Court about 1910 aged 30, he was convicted of GBH and sentenced to 12 and 7 years to run concurrently.

 

In some cases, it may be necessary to customise the Sentence for specific instances of the fact.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 10 February 2021 10:00
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Prison record

 

It’s a very simple fact definition. (I won’t attach a screenshot as that will go into moderation).

 

Name and Label both Court Appearance

Normal Tim Frame: Live

No witness roles

Sentence: {individual} appeared in court {date} {place} {age}

 

Fields required: Date, Place, Note, Age

 

I don’t use Address so haven’t included that, and frankly I’m not convinced the address of the court is relevant.

 

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Hanson
Sent: 10 February 2021 09:39
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Prison record

 

Thanks – however this one isn’t that easy
No record of a court case that I can find in the papers (Battersea area of London is very poorly covered)
All I have is the Crime Report from the TNA CRIM9 -
Central Criminal Court: After Trial Calendars Of Prisoners on FindMyPast
These record the crime (no dates) the sentence (in his case 12 and 7 years to run concurrently)
He was in Brixton prison in 1911 and I suspect when 1921 comes out he will probably be in Dartmoor
Suddenly realised that it will be in the oldbaileyonline - https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=def1-60-19110425&div=t19110425-60#highlight

Second wife divorces him in 1915
In 1935 he marries for the third time and finally dies in 197

So I suppose a source of the CRIM record and can link that to his 1911 census and also a court appearance (any chance of a copy of the fact from you?)
Regards

John

 


colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

Mike, my fact is specifically designed to record the Court Appearance event, and use the Note field as flexibly as possible. Your suggestion is valid, but does something else...  Would you also have a Acquitted fact, because using one of your suggestions would have the bizarre result of e.g. a Conviction fact with a sentence saying they were acquitted.  Which doesn’t work well in a summary report...

 

The Court Appearance fact also caters for civil court appearances.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 10 February 2021 11:23
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Prison record

 

It might be more appropriate to use a more generic fact name/label such as Criminal Record, Criminal History or Conviction.

{individual} was convicted {date} {place} {age}

 

If you make it a custom Attribute then its value could describe the crime and the sentence.

{place} {date} {age}, {individual} was convicted< of {value}>

e.g.

In The Central Criminal Court about 1910 aged 30, he was convicted of GBH and sentenced to 12 and 7 years to run concurrently.

 

In some cases, it may be necessary to customise the Sentence for specific instances of the fact.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 10 February 2021 10:00
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Prison record

 

It’s a very simple fact definition. (I won’t attach a screenshot as that will go into moderation).

 

Name and Label both Court Appearance

Normal Tim Frame: Live

No witness roles

Sentence: {individual} appeared in court {date} {place} {age}

 

Fields required: Date, Place, Note, Age

 

I don’t use Address so haven’t included that, and frankly I’m not convinced the address of the court is relevant.

 


Mike Tate
 

My example of a Conviction attribute was just that ~ an example of Sentence Template options.

I also suggested Criminal Record and Criminal History.

The main point was to consider making the custom fact Name/Label as generic as reasonably possible.

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 10 February 2021 11:31
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Prison record

 

Mike, my fact is specifically designed to record the Court Appearance event, and use the Note field as flexibly as possible. Your suggestion is valid, but does something else...  Would you also have a Acquitted fact, because using one of your suggestions would have the bizarre result of e.g. a Conviction fact with a sentence saying they were acquitted.  Which doesn’t work well in a summary report...

 

The Court Appearance fact also caters for civil court appearances.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 10 February 2021 11:23
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Prison record

 

It might be more appropriate to use a more generic fact name/label such as Criminal Record, Criminal History or Conviction.

{individual} was convicted {date} {place} {age}

 

If you make it a custom Attribute then its value could describe the crime and the sentence.

{place} {date} {age}, {individual} was convicted< of {value}>

e.g.

In The Central Criminal Court about 1910 aged 30, he was convicted of GBH and sentenced to 12 and 7 years to run concurrently.

 

In some cases, it may be necessary to customise the Sentence for specific instances of the fact.

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 10 February 2021 10:00
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Prison record

 

It’s a very simple fact definition. (I won’t attach a screenshot as that will go into moderation).

 

Name and Label both Court Appearance

Normal Tim Frame: Live

No witness roles

Sentence: {individual} appeared in court {date} {place} {age}

 

Fields required: Date, Place, Note, Age

 

I don’t use Address so haven’t included that, and frankly I’m not convinced the address of the court is relevant.

 


colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
 

As I said, it’s a valid suggestion, but how would you handle an Acquittal (no Criminal Record, no Conviction, no Criminal History)?

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Tate
Sent: 10 February 2021 11:53
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Prison record

 

My example of a Conviction attribute was just that ~ an example of Sentence Template options.

I also suggested Criminal Record and Criminal History.

The main point was to consider making the custom fact Name/Label as generic as reasonably possible.

 

 

From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of colevalleygirl@...
Sent: 10 February 2021 11:31
To: family-historian@groups.io
Subject: Re: [family-historian] Prison record

 

Mike, my fact is specifically designed to record the Court Appearance event, and use the Note field as flexibly as possible. Your suggestion is valid, but does something else...  Would you also have a Acquitted fact, because using one of your suggestions would have the bizarre result of e.g. a Conviction fact with a sentence saying they were acquitted.  Which doesn’t work well in a summary report...

 

The Court Appearance fact also caters for civil court appearances.

 


Adrian Bruce
 

On Wed, 10 Feb 2021 at 08:47, colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
<colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk> wrote:
...
I record time in prison as a Residence event, with approx. dates if I don’t have exact dates. ...
How interesting. I'd never have thought of that. Well, in honesty, I
doubt I'd do that myself - the closest I came to doing it was
considering whether my grandfathers' should have a Residence of
"France & Flanders" during WW1 and deciding against it because they
got the vote in their "home" constituency and it didn't seem right to
alter their Residence away from that.

Makes me wonder how many subtle differences there are in our usages -
such as using the standard "Occupation" for military service instead
of a Custom Attribute? I doubt such differences matter for most of
us....

Adrian