Import from TMG
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I have just made a trial import of part of my TMG data into FH. Within TMG they were all part of the same family. I have two issues so far and I wondered if anybody had any solutions (1) All TMG "Death" Tags have been imported into FH as Death facts and as FH requires a "Died" event these facts do not appear on the Individual's "Main" Tab, (2) I have a number of Marriage-Registration facts in TMG (where I emphasise there are two principals - Bride and Groom) which are "sourced" by a GRO index entry, the marriage facts have been imported into each principal separately without making a marriage / family connection between the two people. Other marriage facts supported by other sources appear to have been imported OK.
 Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Do I need to change the Roles in TMG (to say P1 andP2)? One thing that is winning me over to FH is the "Everyone" tree, it immediately highlighted the missing marriages by providing a row of unconnected people at the bottom of the screen. I'm not sure how much use it will be with 13,000 people in a single tree, but in the sample 500 it was quite workable |
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John Hanson
Bob I assume that you have checked the “importing into FH” in the FHUG knowledge base?
Also there have been many questions asked in the FHUG forums and you might like to start with https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=40 Regards John Hanson FSG Researching the Halstead/Holstead/Alstead names Researcher, the Halsted Trust - https://www.halsted.org.uk Research website - https://www.halstedresearch.org.uk And my own study of FOSKER
From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Hunter
Sent: 12 November 2022 01:18 To: family-historian@groups.io Subject: [family-historian] Import from TMG
I have just made a trial import of part of my TMG data into FH. Within TMG they were all part of the same family. I have two issues so far and I wondered if anybody had any solutions (1) All TMG "Death" Tags have been imported into FH as Death facts and as FH requires a "Died" event these facts do not appear on the Individual's "Main" Tab, (2) I have a number of Marriage-Registration facts in TMG (where I emphasise there are two principals - Bride and Groom) which are "sourced" by a GRO index entry, the marriage facts have been imported into each principal separately without making a marriage / family connection between the two people. Other marriage facts supported by other sources appear to have been imported OK.
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Bob, A great many users have migrated from TMG to FH very successfully. They have experienced and fixed your issues. It will be a great deal easier to discuss your issues in the FHUG Importing & Exporting forum where multiple screenshots can be quickly attached to the posts, whereas here it is a slow process as each attachment is manually reviewed by moderators. See https://www.fhug.org.uk/ where membership is free.
(1) The Fact that FH is looking for is the standard GEDCOM Death Event with the DEAT GEDCOM tag. There are various solutions that can fix the problem by changing the tag in TMG or changing it in FH after import. Those are discussed in the FHUG Forums and Knowledge Base.
(2) Your screenshot shows the Bride and Groom as shared Fact Witnesses. That does not necessarily indicate that they are a Family Partnership. You say that the diagram shows they are unrelated which confirms my suspicion that they are not linked in a Family record. Changing the Witness Roles to P1 & P2 will not help.
BTW: There are several ways in FH of discovering unrelated individuals.
I’ll see you over in the FHUG Forums. _,_._,_ |
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colevalleygirl@colevalleygirl.co.uk
Bob, don't feel pressured to move the discussion to FHUG; moderation here is usually quite quick, contrary to Mike's assertion. It can take longer for posts made overnight (UK time).
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Adrian Bruce
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 at 07:44, Bob Hunter <rmwhunter@...> wrote: I have just made a trial import of part of my TMG data into FH. Within TMG they were all part of the same family. I have two issues so far and I wondered if anybody had any solutions ... (2) I have a number of Marriage-Registration facts in TMG (where I emphasise there are two principals - Bride and Groom) which are "sourced" by a GRO index entry, the marriage facts have been imported into each principal separately without making a marriage / family connection between the two people. Other marriage facts supported by other sources appear to have been imported OK. Bob - I will just throw this in with respect to your Marriage-Registration facts. Mike suggests that "Your screenshot shows the Bride and Groom as shared Fact Witnesses. ... You say that the diagram shows they are unrelated which confirms my suspicion that they are not linked in a Family record." I'd totally agree with Mike but I'd also suggest that it's a vaguely similar issue to your first issue where it *looks like* you're not using the standard GEDCOM DEAT tag. In this instance you say that you've got a Marriage-*Registration* fact. The default way of approaching this in FH would be to use the Marriage event which is a Family Event with the MARR tag. This says that the marriage took place and defines the two parties involved - though it's not a *shared* fact in what I think is the usual sense of the term. The MARR will link the two parties in a Family Record. It would appear that somehow you need to swap your
Marriage-Registration facts for Marriage facts - but I have no experience in how you shift the two parties into their expected positions.
The reason I'm adding this comment is that you appear to be using a
Marriage-Registration fact, rather than a Marriage fact. We had a discussion about this somewhere and I contended that throughout genealogical history in England & Wales, Marriage-Registration either didn't exist or took place as an integral part of the Marriage ceremony, so there was no benefit to separating it out from the actual marriage. Even in Scotland, where
Marriage-Registration takes place after 1855 (and not before), it's physically impossible to register a marriage without the marriage having taken place (well, unless the parties are into document forgery). My experience is that it becomes a much more interesting question in places like the USA where the marriage registration can be quite distant from the marriage - my case is in San Francisco where the 1906 Earthquake and Fire destroyed so many records and my very careful "cousin-in-law" took the precaution of re-registering his 1903 marriage in 1909. Even there I have a MARR family event for the original marriage and a custom Family Event for the post-1906 registration. In summary, my advice would be - don't be afraid of replacing your marriage registration events with marriage events. Adrian |
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All wise words and I would agree there looks like work to be done. I read a lot of genealogy software forums and I repeatedly read "I would create a custom fact for......." advice. Such poor advice is generally a work around to some limitation within the particular software, I don't find these necessary in FH. The GEDCOM standard is pretty well thought out and covers ~90% of genealogy needs so my advice would be try and be as compliant as possible to the standard in order to avoid problems. On Sat, 12 Nov 2022, 12:09 Adrian Bruce, <abruce6155@...> wrote:
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Adrian
TMG does not use GEDCOM to store its data, however the GEDCOM associated with its Death Tag is DEAT Similarly, the GEDCOM associated with both my MarRegister tag and the standard Marriage Tag is MARR TMG does not require a Marriage event/fact/Tag (of any sort) for a couple to be in a family group and as far as I know the same is true in FH. BobH |
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Mike
(1) My TMG Death Tag has the DEAT CEDCOM associated with it. It is the standard TMG Tag (2) TMG does not require a marriage tag of any kind for a couple to be in a family group/relationship. My extraneous MarRegister Tag should not have impacted the import of that relationship into FH (should it?) Both the Standard Marriage Tag and my MarRegister Tag have the MARR GEDCOM associated with them BobH |
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Jackson
I agree with you. My MarRegister Tag in TMG was designed to overcome the issue that TMG could not handle quarter dates TMG does not use GEDCOM. However, on moving to Family Historian, I have no issue of working within the constraints of the Standard. BobH |
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John Hanson
Bob As a matter of interest how did you do your test input
Did you created a GEDCOM or use the direct import?
You will get different results from memory – a long while since I tried it Regards John Hanson FSG
From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Hunter
Sent: 12 November 2022 14:25 To: family-historian@groups.io Subject: Re: [family-historian] Import from TMG
Jackson |
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Bob,
I have been dealing with a lot of evolutionary issues having migrated to FH in recent years, my previous software appeared to require too many custom facts to provide simple needs.
As regards Gedcom, I am no expert but I thought every program attempted to comply with the standard, some better than others, even though they might use a database structure behind the scenes, maybe TMG was different?
From: family-historian@groups.io [mailto:family-historian@groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Hunter
Jackson |
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John
I used the direct import; the general advice is that it's the better way BobH |
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Jackson
TMG uses the FROXPRO database engine. As far as I understand, it only attempts to "comply" with GEDCOM when it makes a GEDCOM Export. In this instance of course Family Historian is reading the TMG database directly in order to make the import so TMG's compliance is not relevant. BobH. |
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Well as regards the Gedcom tags within the TMG database it is always relevant.
BTW, I believe Family Origins and RM 1-3 used Foxpro.
From: family-historian@groups.io [mailto:family-historian@groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Hunter
Jackson |
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Further to all of this: I also have DeathRegister Tags and BirthRegister Tags, serving the same purpose for Death and Birth registration information and they do not populate the Born and Died field of an individual in FH (though they do import as facts) I think I am looking at the likelihood that I’m going to have to change all my Registration Tags in TMG |
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Richard Scantlebury
Like John it’s a long time since I imported TMG and unfortunately I can’t remember the details. I believe you are a member of the GOONS as well as living in Yorkshire, so what I would suggest is to watch the Webinar by Paul Howes on using FH and also compare notes with Paul Featherstone as I believe he is either going through the same process or thinking about it as yourself.
Best wishes and Kind regards Rich Scantlebury In global pursuit of Scantleburys & Skentelberys for a one name study - 3209 http://scantlebury.one-name.net/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/richscats/
From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Hunter
Sent: Saturday, 12 November 2022 15:40 To: family-historian@groups.io Subject: Re: [family-historian] Import from TMG
Further to all of this: I also have DeathRegister Tags and BirthRegister Tags, serving the same purpose for Death and Birth registration information and they do not populate the Born and Died field of an individual in FH (though they do import as facts) I think I am looking at the likelihood that I’m going to have to change all my Registration Tags in TMG |
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John Hanson
Bob Just been back into TMG and I had death registration and mine came in as that and worked OK as far as I can remember (a while ago and age!)
Screen shots of the two events in TMG if it helps Regards John Hanson FSG
From: family-historian@groups.io <family-historian@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Hunter
Sent: 12 November 2022 15:40 To: family-historian@groups.io Subject: Re: [family-historian] Import from TMG
Further to all of this: I also have DeathRegister Tags and BirthRegister Tags, serving the same purpose for Death and Birth registration information and they do not populate the Born and Died field of an individual in FH (though they do import as facts) I think I am looking at the likelihood that I’m going to have to change all my Registration Tags in TMG |
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Adrian Bruce
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022, 14:10 Bob Hunter, <rmwhunter@...> wrote: ... Hmm. Re your last paragraph - you are right that FH doesn't need a marriage event or similar for a couple to form a pair of spouses / partners in a family group. However, it does need something that says that the two are "partners" - the classic case, no surprise, is to enter a marriage event against one of the parties, mentioning the other. But that's not the only way to do it. One other way is to simply create what FH calls a Family - initially, as you imply, without any events. Looking at the screenshot of your Witnesses for Marriage Registration, that definitely appears to have come through to FH as an Event for an Individual. If it listed witnesses for a Family Event, the word "Family" would be near the top. Or so I believe from screenshots elsewhere. So that particular event is being interpreted as an individual, not family event, without the connection between the two. Pretty much as you realise. There may be aspects of TMG coming into play here that I'm missing. For instance, I'm not sure what your references to P1 and P2 mean. It may or may not help to have a look at https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19441 - that thread actually deals with GEDCOM export from TMG but that and the linked threads may (or may not) help you understand what might be going on. Clearly there is or was, some combination of data that confused the import. Sorry I can't help more. Adrian |
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John
That's more or less what I have. The only difference being in the sentence construction (I don't use a calculated age but enter the age in the register as [M1]) |
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Adrian, thank you, you are more or less confirming my thoughts that the MarReg Tag is being imported as an individual event rather than a family event. Having realised the problem, I now need to discover a solution. My first try was to change the name of the Tag in TMG to Marriage, but that didn't work, The Marriage fact was imported as individual facts into each of the two Principles - Bride & Groom but differently
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